Exodore |
I need help in making, what I call, a true Kensai. Thematically, I'm interested in having him be similar to the original Oriental Adventures Kensai in that he relies on his weapon for everything... hitting frequently, inflicting huge amounts of damage, and high AC bonuses (I.e. he doesn't wear armor).
I'm open to just about any combination of multi-classing and archetypes. Also, while the katana fits best thematically, I'm open to other weapon suggestions. The only caveat is that there can't be any sort of caster class involved in the build.
Thanks, in advanced, for your advice.
TGMaxMaxer |
There is no way without magic to get decent AC with no armor.
This system just doesn't function that way. Either you have physical armor, or you use magic for AC.
If you can get over the idea of magic as "magic", and instead think of it as mystical prescience that protects you from attacks and causes your attacks to be unavoidable (Mage Armor and Shield defense, True Strike offense being the ones I would suggest), the Kensai Magus (possibly Bladebound) is your best choice.
There is no way to get to even Plate mail levels of defense with no physical armor and no magic, before level 12+.
It's a common request, but not a supported trope in Pathfinder.
Weapon Adept Monk is a distant 2nd place to what you want, stacking Dex and Wis for AC while still getting decent attacks.
Just understand, that without magic or physical armor, after level 6 you will be hit on anything not a natural 1 probably by level appropriate CRs.
DominusMegadeus |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
But I guess the other option is Sohei or Weapon Adept Monk.
Aelryinth RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16 |
Remember that original OA was 1e, and it was a very different game then. Your best dragons had ac -1 (=21) and so it was very possible to wear no armor and have a great AC against monsters.
3e is not set up that way.
You'll need a secondary stat upping your AC, like Monks have, you'll still have to wear bracers, and monks STILL got a scaling AC bonus to replace the fact they didn't have a shield.
So...not as easy to do in 3.5 or PF. You either make some compromises or you can't do what you want.
==Aelryinth
Braingamer |
The Swordmaster class is a really solid 3PP product that has a strong connection to your sword, to the point where it becomes an intelligent item. The sword art system has an interesting, fluid combat dynamic. I highly recommend it.
ngc7293 |
Play an Unchained Monk
From Weapon Master's Handbook there is Ascetic Style Feat and Ascetic Form that allows swords to be used instead of Unarmed Strikes. I would use the Nine Ring Broadsword which has a x3 crit.
There is a 3rd party book called "Everyman Unchained Monk Archetypes". This allows you to use current monk Archetypes with the Unchained Monk. I was considering the 4 Winds Monk Archetype to get the Elemental Fist starting at first level.
It doesn't do huge amounts of damage like a barbarian, but it should do plenty.
Cult of Vorg |
You can do it with a rapier.. Inspired Blade Swashbuckler 1 for dex damage and parry riposte, Weapon Master Fighter 4 for feats and weapon training/spec, some Maneuver Master Monk for Wis AC and dirty tricks or your other favorite maneuver, then possibly Duelist for more AC/parry and some damage, and/or pick up crane style. If not duelist, maybe urban barbarian for dex rage and better-late-than-never beast/superstition power lines. Of course it's MAD, needing dex>wis/int/con, so it's only really impressive with higher than normal attributes..
There's also the aldori sword lord prestige and archetype.
Sword saint samurai never impressed me, but if you hate the mount but like the rest of the Sam then at least you get something for it.. Would still need a swash dip to finesse a katana, since you can't do daring champion cavalier and samurai....
avr |
Paizo's classes don't do what you want well. However, Dreamscarred Press's Path of War was created to make martial characters viable using systems like those in D&D 3.5's Tome of Battle, and it does the job. In particular the Zweihander Sentinel archetype for the Warder class might do what you want; it uses a two-handed weapon as weapon and shield, which combined with the Scarlet Throne and Iron Tortoise maneuvers should be able to offer a good offence and reasonable defence.
Charon's Little Helper |
Yeah - as ngc said - monk is about the only way to play unarmored with solid AC.
Either Umonk or Sohei should work pretty well. Umonk has a better flurry - but at level 6 Sohei gets weapon training. Once the Sohei gets Gloves of Dueling he gets slightly higher raw DPR and high Will save.
Six one way - half dozen the other. Pretty much the same power level with different vibes. (Umonk is a bit better until 6ish)
Heretek |
Don't forget about this: Blade of the Sword Saint. Makes Monk a decent choice.
That would be cool and all aside from the whole 75k price tag.
Would a katana/nodachi work with Ascetic Style/Form though? That may be a valid option, though the damage would be weaker than a monks regular unarmed strikes.
ngc7293 |
I'm sorry, I should have linked the Weapon Master's Handbook. In it, Ascetic Style says to choose your weapon from the Monk Fighter Weapon Group. That is on page 45 of Ultimate Combat.
There are several ways to get a Katana or Nodachi as your weapon since they are not monk weapons. The easiest to me is to take the Halfelf Racial Trait- Ancestral Arms.
Heretek |
I'm sorry, I should have linked the Weapon Master's Handbook. In it, Ascetic Style says to choose your weapon from the Monk Fighter Weapon Group. That is on page 45 of Ultimate Combat.
There are several ways to get a Katana or Nodachi as your weapon since they are not monk weapons. The easiest to me is to take the Halfelf Racial Trait- Ancestral Arms.
It still won't get you flurry of blows with it though. Seems like the only option is Sohei Monk with a nodachi, and even then, you can't do it until lvl 6.
Snowlilly |
Davor wrote:Don't forget about this: Blade of the Sword Saint. Makes Monk a decent choice.That would be cool and all aside from the whole 75k price tag.
Would a katana/nodachi work with Ascetic Style/Form though? That may be a valid option, though the damage would be weaker than a monks regular unarmed strikes.
The Sohei can flurry with a nodachi.
Validorn |
You could really be a Magus:
A Kensai Magus really could do this if you choose the "These should be martial class features" spells. Bladed Dash, Blade Tutor's Spirit, Jump, Magic Weapon, Shield, Thunderstomp, Truestrike, Unerring Weapon, Anticipate Thoughts, Brow Gasher, Quick Throwing, Tactical Acumen, Burst of Speed, Force Punch, Keen Edge, Locate Weakness, Resilient Reservoir, Titanic Anchoring, Versatile Weapon, Forceful Strike, Dimensional Blade, Borrowed Time, Explode Head.
But I guess the other option is Sohei or Weapon Adept Monk.
+1
I had a very difficult time deciding on a build for my "Kenshin" swordmaster. I looked at Thug/Scout Rogue, Daring Champion, etc. Part of the challenge was remaining committed to the katana but I ultimately decided on a kensai magus and challenging myself to RP him as a pure martial that uses many of the "techniques" Dominus mentioned.
Exodore |
Wow! Thanks for all of the advice. I'll check out the suggested classes. It sounds like the Kensai magus is the closest to what I'm after if I RP the recommendations as technique instead of magical enhancements.
Another question: I've just picked up the Melee Tactics Toolbox and the Weapon Master's Handbook and haven't really had time to digest all of the options. Is there anything in either of these books that you think would help the build?