Validorn's page

There's the blood kineticist archetype.

Mesmerist would synergize well with the will saves required for most necromancy spells and gets some good ones.
A holy vindicator makes themselves bleed.

And a reminder about fervor, only buffs can be swift casted, as you can only target yourself with them.
Oh, and arsenal chaplain is an amazing archetype for WP.

A friend of mine plays a blood kineticist. Very interesting concept but does not incorporate much of the spells/melee attacks I'm looking for in the build.

Mesmerist is definitely an interesting idea and seems like it would sync up well with an Eldritch Scion Magus. The painful stare would bump damage and hypnotic stare would weaken enemy will saves as you said. The spell list is decent but overlaps more with magus as opposed to getting some of the cool ones from cleric/warpriest necromancy list.

Holy vindicator is a very interesting prestige class! I definitely like the theme, the full BAB, and the d10. As a warpriest base, I wouldn't be able to start the prestige class until level 8. That combined with faith healing vs Dhampir negative energy affinity leaves me wondering if it might be better in a home game than PFS.

I've definitely seen Arsenal Chaplain mentioned a few times. Definitely no loss on sacred armor and to a lesser extent sacred weapon damage but I still need to familiarize myself with the blessings to see if it's worth being restricted to War only.

The Impaler you say, eh?

Great feat for the build! Although it looks like a pure warpriest couldn't take it until level 12 as a bonus feat due to the BAB +11 requirement. Would be a nice 'retirement' for the character though. :)

Thank you both for sharing your ideas! I wonder if there are additional suggestions out there.

A friend was kind enough to give me her dhampir boon for PFS and I was thinking I'd make a Vlad themed melee/caster.

I envisioned something like a necro-magus such that he consistently makes melee attacks but regularly makes use of his spells during combat.

To enable the best action economy, I was looking at:

Magus (Vanilla, Eldritch Scion, or Bladebound[hexcrafter])

Thematic Spells: Chill Touch, Bladed Dash, Brow Gasher, Defending Bone, Ray of Exhaustion/Siphon Might, Vampiric Touch**

or

Warpriest (Vanilla)

Thematic Spells: Bleed, Cause Fear, Doom, Bloodbath, Death Knell**, Deathwine, Defending Bone, Deadly Juggernaut**, Reaper's Coterie, Death Knell Aura**

Aside from the obligatory buff spells I'd prefer his other spell selections to pertain to necromancy, death, blood, etc.

Just wondering if any folks out there might have any suggestions. If an alternative class/archetype is suggested my only request is that it still have a spell combat or fervor like ability to cast some spells in the same round as making melee attacks. Unless, of course, a strong argument can be made for considering something else.

Thoughts on one choice vs the other or anything else pertaining to this build?

I mean.

Not only is that my favourite-named Discovery, it's nigh-perfect for the Holy Grail folks.

I've been considering this. It definitely fits the theme, I just wish it had more utility. Perhaps I'll save that for the divine alchemy if I'm expecting an undead heavy session.

Validorn wrote:

Hopefully I'll have some time tonight to go through Archives of Nethys to see what options there are.

Take a look at this thread, it could provide some nice ideas.

Just wanted to follow up on this. Many thanks for all of the suggestions. I opted to try the sacrament alchemist given its seemingly tremendous versatility. I'm happy to report that after fast tracking the character from level 1 to 5 at a con last weekend, I'm fairly happy with the build. Many of the initial creatures I faced were resistant to fire so my bombs were of limited use for most of his adventures thus far. Going with Desna, the Bit of Luck (luck domain) still gave me a way to support the group in combat beyond firing a crossbow.

Now that I've got 3d6 bomb damage, explosive bombs, infusions, and divinely inspired alchemy to pick-up a temporary discovery (like acid bombs), I think the build is starting to come into its own. Avoron, your link was very helpful in deciding on domains/deity, thank you!

If you have the patience for another tangent with a MP twist, you may appreciate this lumberjack class I wrote. I also have a not-quite-finished "enchanter" class, and ideas for an unwritten "knight" class

I was actually starting to sing the song in my head reading your intro to the lumberjack class! Definitely a fun read. Please give my regards to Tim when you've finished with the enchanter class. I'd been entertaining the idea of a Black Knight build, possibly as a Stalwart Defender with Vital Strike.

In terms of a custom class, I could see an ability like 'Inhuman Staunching - the black knight takes double bleed damage on the first round but then the bleed effect ends. If an enemy is adjacent during this effect, they must make a successful fort save or be sickened as they are bled upon'.

Thanks Louise for the reminder on the funnel. Definitely have all of the alchemical goodies marked down from other guides and threads.

This discovery absolutely needs to be a thing for your build.

Have you considered sacrament alchemist?

This is precisely why I wanted to reach out for advice. Great Finds!

I completely agree that holy bombs should be in the build. It provides a thematic and great alternative to frost bombs for staggering enemies.

Sacrament Alchemist is definitely an interesting archetype. The lost class features aren't too painful although the -2 dex penalty with the sacramental cognatogen stings a bit. I'm not familiar enough with many of the cleric (sub)domains to really gauge the full potential of this trade off. Hopefully I'll have some time tonight to go through Archives of Nethys to see what options there are.

Re: Ciaran, you raise some excellent points. In regards to the rabbit familiar, I suppose it becomes a question of whether or not I want the character to reference many facets of Monty Python or try to just emulate one specific character to the best of my ability. I really like the holy reliquaries idea! I'm even happy re-skinning arcane buffs as some form of comical holy ritual like 'Sir Lancelot's Protection' (Shield) - "Keeping you safe from even a little bit of peril". I definitely appreciate the sentiment on precise bombs but, particularly in a PFS environment, friendly fire could be a sticking point. On the other hand, it could make the use of bombs less frequent thereby more special as well as emphasize the power of the holy hand grenade in blowing everything to tiny bits.

Re: Louise, the grenadier is undoubtedly a great archetype and can provide many great opportunities for control with alchemical weapons. Additionally, the hedgehog is also a strong choice for a familiar mechanically. However, shy of referring to the hedgehog as Spiny Norman, I worry that these drift a bit from the initial intention of the build. Although there is certainly something to be said for a holy bomb explosive missile ...

Hello everyone,

I've been trying to put together a 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail' inspired character based around the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch for PFS.

I was hoping to find an archetype for a divine class that would allow it to throw bombs but have not had any luck yet.

So far I'm looking at the following build and was hoping to get some feedback. The purpose of the build is to be comical, functional, but does not have to be min/maxed.

Brother Maynard of Antioch

Human Mindchemist X

1: Point Blank, Precise Shot
2: Tumor Familiar ("That's no ordinary" Rabbit of Caerbannog, +4 initiative "Run Away!")
3: Extra Discovery (Precise Bomb)
4: Infusion
5: Splash Weapon Mastery
6: Wings (bird/Angel)
7: Rapid Shot
8: Fast Bombs
9: Extra Discovery (Force Bomb)
10: Explosive Bomb?
11: Improved Initiative/Iron Will?

I'd like the character to provide a lot of support to the party (knowledge, infusions, etc) as well as be able to chuck potent bombs. I'm actually tempted to avoid fast bombs (sacrilege I know!) just because tossing multiple bombs per round seems to cheapen the 'gravitas' of the Holy Hand Grenade.

For the familiar, an emissary or sage would be practical and in line with my intended role although a mauler rabbit would be hilarious... and rather fragile.

Thoughts?

Wei Ji

7 Player Adjustment: Where players and the GM roll initiative and then wait for the possibility of participating in a combat that can still last for half an hour.

Pro-tip: During your down-time, in between turns, you can notify your friends/significant other(s)/parents that you're going to be late. You can also take this time to start a hobby, read a book, make a sandwich, go for a jog, catch up on sleep, perform the full story of Moby Dick using your minis, etc...

(See Also: Party with multiple "pet classes")

... when the party's wizard determines there is illusion magic in the area and tells everyone that, yet nobody (wizard included) can roll higher then a 5 on their will save.

I ran into an issue like that playing Wounded Wisp.

... when you are the only experienced player at the table and some of the party decides to split at a time where your character does not notice.

I agree with Matt - a variety of skills and abilities lets you fill a variety of roles, depending on who else comes to the table. Rogues, bards, or versatile casters are my favorites. More important, though, is the voice for me - I try to make my characters speak distinctively, and so I tend to only play a new PC when I have a voice for him. My current favorite is Drel, halfling shadowcaster who has an accent midway between Alexi Leonov (Soviet-era cosmonaut) and Gru from the "Despicable Me" movies. That, plus a schtick to explain his various powers, translates to more fun for me than the details of mechanics.

Of course, you have to have a solid mechanical build at some point, or you're just taking up space... but I find that, as long as I have a lot of skills, especially Knowledge skills, and various combat and utility abilities, be they from skills, items, or spells, I can help the table have fun.

I second this in conjunction with generalists. It wasn't until I made my '-4' that I really gave much thought to personalities but I've really strived to create unique personas ever since.

-4 Yoshimitsu "The Battousai': a human hating tiefling order of the cockatrice samurai
-5 Borris the Butcher (for Goodness): a Russian accented half-orc sacred huntsmaster with his 'therapy companion' snow leopard Natasha
-6 Jack "The Gentlman Caller" Garrett: a 'morally vacant and discrete entrepreneur' with a charming southern accent and black leather gloves (strangler brawler/stygian slayer)
-11 Ol' Jebediah "Gruffles" McSheepsbane: a dirty hillbilly investigator that mumbles a lot and has all the 'manners' of a true moonshiner that doesn't trust the government, he's focused on improvised weapons and dirty tricks, in his most recent scenario he stuck a dirty mop in someone's face
-12 Dieter Fehrenbach: retired German speaking alchemist who isn't coping well with the death of his family. He created a covetous homunculus copy of one of his grandsons (Friedrich) and then wiped some of his own memory. Friedrich is carrying on the alchemy tradition and will, over time, try to covertly preserve his 'grandfather' so that they can be together ... forever. (planned discoveries preserve organs/mummification) They just had a family outing to the Blackros Museum in Mists of Mwangi!

I agree with others that it is more enjoyable to be able to contribute in most situations rather than dominate one aspect of play and then sit idly by for others. Dungeon crawl mods/APs can be quite challenging for RP so it has been harder to stay in tune with some of my characters. But I like it when I feel like I've contributed to the parties success and to the players' (and my) enjoyment with RPing.

It's gratifying and telling when other players talk about your characters. Someone remembered Borris a year after they played with him at GenCon in Out of Anarchy. I've also had 3 'who would win in a fight' conversations initiated by other players about my samurai even though he's not overly optimized which makes me feel like I'm playing his intimidate/braggert build correctly. ;)

Thank you for all of the suggestions.

Leshy Warden was an interesting suggestion. It looks like leaf leshies have a weapon in their stat block which should support their ability to use weapons. Druid doesn't fully fit the flavor of what I originally had in mind but definitely seems like it could work mechanically minus the lack of feat progression. Nice find!

I must say the spiritualist is looking more promising on a second read through although I just noticed that it says specifically that phantoms cannot wield weapons... that shuts the door hard on that idea. Easy enough to tweak in a home game but looks pretty concrete for PFS. :(

I looked at anthropomorphic animal a while back as a way to possibly turn a base familiar into a wand caddy but my take away was that it goes heavily into YMMV at best. Weapons on the other hand are called out specifically in the spell and the spell appears to be legal... it would be costly to keep up though as a level 3 spell.

Inspiring-talent is pretty cool but gets complicated by the fact that the master would want an 18-20 weapon for crit fishing and the companion would want a x4 weapon to benefit from butterfly sting. Since it costs a feat slot anyway and would only apply to one weapon, it seems like regular weapon proficiency feats may be stronger in this case. Plus they wouldn't require a specific race.

Thanks for chiming in Chess.

That crossed my mind also but doesn't that still fall under the restriction that base familiar's cannot use weapons, even if they technically gain access to martial weapon proficiency?

My character concept is an elderly and kind German-themed toymaker/puppetmaster with some type of sidekick (familiar/companion/eidolon/homonculus).

The idea is that he is traumatized by the death of his family as part of some great war and he's not completely accepting of reality and believes that some of his grandchildren still come to visit him.

So the mechanics:

Originally I was planning on Soulbound Puppet with a pure vanilla occultist. The idea being that the puppet would be his 'grandchild' and would do the damage in combat, i.e. "The Puppet Master" while the grandfather jovially watches him 'play'. However, it occurred to me that these puppets function as familiars and therefore cannot wield weapons (for all intents and purposes) which greatly limits its combat performance. If I shifted focus to necromantic servant, I would get much better mileage out of the necromancy implement school and the skeletons could at least wield some equipment but I think it is restricted to chain shirt and scimitar without having penalties. But, as far as I can tell, these remain a bit weak. The later insta-heals and advanced templates help somewhat but I didn't want to focus on swarms of companions.

I also started leaning towards doing a self-contained butterfly sting build where the grandfather would attack with a keen weapon and pass the crit off to his 'grandchild' which would have a scythe or similar x4 weapon. As best I can tell, the main classes that can have humanoid shaped companion with access to feat progression would be a Promethean alchemist or an unchained summoner (same basic stat progression for companion).

I had resigned myself to going the alchemist route but then noticed that they (and the summoner) only get simple weapon proficiencies.

So,

TLDR: Anyone know of a way to set-up a build out of the box to have full martial weapon proficiency and a companion that can use at least one x4 crit weapon and gain the benefit of power attack? Level dip and/or heirloom weapon are the only things coming to mind but hoping for alternatives.

p.s.- The build would need to be street (PFS) legal

Thanks in advance for any helpful advice!

Errata| That magical event where changes result in: gutted items having to be sold back, feats being retrained, and whole builds or characters being orphaned/abandoned/forsaken. This is often accompanied with intense debate on the forums of 'why can't we have nice things?' or 'that was so broken and you munchkins know it!' along with much praise for John Compton and campaign management for their understanding and assistance during this difficult time.

Face: (noun)
1) What the barbarian is about to smash, unprovoked, on a person you just met.
2) The person designated as having the responsibility of talking, in the hopes of non-violent outcomes, before the barbarian can act.

Another great con. Many welcome improvements.

As others have mentioned, mustering felt much smoother and calm with seating people early and having the boards in the ballroom. I also liked that the sheets posted at each door listed all of the games where as, in the past, you would have to hunt for your door. Seating early and seating groups of 4 helped with congestion at check-in significantly. There was one instance where I had to cross the entire ballroom to go from the mustering point to my assigned table but not sure how manageable such logistics are so just fyi.

HVAC, I'm typically very tolerant of heating and cooling but Friday night and Sunday morning felt uncomfortably cold. Being the heat of summer I did not bring hoodies or layers and was just shy of shivering. I understand the argument of sweater is better than sweat as my most *potent* memory of my first GenCon was the smell; however, I would hope there could be a better medium than boil or freeze. Other slots felt comfortable so I don't know if it was just positioning (under vent).

Regarding 1 am, I greatly appreciated the extra time between sessions to grab some food with friends and not feel like I'm in such a rush. Plus, when a table finished early, it gave me additional time in the exhibit hall. Food options can be limited in a rush and after several days can definitely add to feeling unwell. That being said, the 1 am finish leading to an 8 am start is rough and therefore a noteworthy trade-off. No good answers on this, just not enough time in the day to game! ;)

Tiered special. Having the special tiered, definitely made the time leading up to the event a little more stressful in regards to planning out what level a character can get to months in advance and hope that they don't die somewhere in the process. I'm assuming it helped with the prep for some GMs as the one I had last year was prepped to run low but had to run high for our table at the last minute and, let's just say, the transition was not the best. Special this year went smoothly. Greatly appreciated the pre-recordings and the word captions! I was able to enjoy more of the content this year as I had no difficulties seeing or hearing what was going on. Last year I had a table in the corner and it was like trying to understand an adult from Peanuts (Charlie Brown and Co.). The timing of the Ennie announcements does continue to feel disruptive to the special. Perhaps kicking off the event with the announcements would improve the flow and build excitement for the special.

Definitely a great job this year and Paizo's efforts for continuous improvement have not gone unnoticed!

*is suddenly glad that he played them pbp :P

But wouldn't role-playing a goblin in a PbP be a cardinal goblin sin?

Writing! It burnsses!!!

For those tables where it 'slows down' the interaction at the table, what has been the experience with the slow-down?

I think the main time bogs I've encountered are sandbox scenarios. There doesn't even have to be RP involved for the group to start falling behind just with trying to decide what to do next. Those might be good instances where RP with the locals could facilitate the GM giving the players a nudge on where to go next to keep things moving along. Otherwise, table talk can eat up time if left unchecked. I recently played with a gentlemen that has a Cayden Cailean worshiping dwarf that speaks in an inebriated Scottish accent; it was a joy to listen to and it had the table cracking up but wasn't necessarily 'expediting' the mission.

Obstacles I've encountered to RP is providing numerous 'creative solutions' in character but in some scenarios (perhaps some GMs) we'd hit the wall of 'that skill does not apply, roll/do this instead.' My experience GMing is limited to a home campaign of Hell's Rebels currently in progress. Given the amount of restrictions that exist in PFS, I'm wondering if GMs feel more constrained by what's written in the scenario. For those of you that GM for PFS, to what extent do you feel at liberty to 'adjust' results in response to creative solutions and RP? If your players encounter an npc that the scenario explicitly says requires a DC 35 profession basket weaving check for 'success', would you allow alternatives?

In terms of additional rewards for RP, in my Hell's Rebel home game I've given my players a free re-roll per book but also the chance for the best RPer to win one additional re-roll. I've played some games where GMs use starbursts for MOBs with the 'eat what you kill' approach. Perhaps, out of game benefits like candy or dice or whatever can be used to encourage RP as well. That does enter the dangerous territory of turning RP into a competition or someone not RPing to the GMs standards etc... but just a thought.

Reap what you sow?

Invite RP - Introductions can set the tone for the adventure as suggested above. Folks might be bashful with introductions at first but if the mission briefing, for example, is role-played well it might encourage the same behavior in players. Also, players comfortable with role-playing can lead, even request, introductions to encourage RP from others... i.e. 'hey, I've broken the ice for us and it's completely safe, acceptable, and, dare I say, enjoyable to have fun being your character'

Maintain RP - Party talk in character can help keep the mood. This might be essential in more 'dungeon crawl' environments where there are not many opportunities to socially interact with NPCs. However, this can lead to the 'goofing off' time burner so use as appropriate. Try to help each-other (players and GM) avoid stalling in conversation. Speaking summarily in character can help convey intent of someone that might be struggling to find the right words or ideas, important not to talk over someone while doing so. However, hitting 'the wall' in conversation can force things to go out of character and could adversely affect RP momentum.

Reward RP - This overlaps a little with maintain RP but positive experience with RP can encourage future RP. I believe Hmm indicated in another thread that she rewards RP with more RP. Such positive feedback loops can be quite helpful. Help RP be meaningful. Perhaps the party's words helped them avoid an encounter. Perhaps combat was unavoidable and the party has a reason to fight the guards beyond entering square A2, maybe the guards remarked that a players lineage included a hamster and someone smelling of elderberries. Maybe the party is given additional insight from an NPC they befriended/frightened, even if it is mostly flavor text. Perhaps the main thing to avoid is having anyone feel like they failed at or because of RP. So time management and group dynamic are important.

Just my ramblings...

p.s. spend time with people that enjoy RP and then share the love :)

Muser wrote:

* Boy, I love Wands! +19 (never jam wands, always succeed at activating them)

A natural 1 always jams a wand for 24 hours. This one keeps coming up with people who UMD to use healing wands.

Not quite.

Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours.

Emphasis mine. It jams on a nat 1 only if you still don't hit the DC 20 check.

Edit: Triple Ninja action. Nice!

* Touch Fluffy Tail! +9 (succeed at tricks without rolling, aid automatically)

Assuming Fluffy is uninjured. :)

Great list!

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Have you noticed that the "half" in half everything is always human? half orc, half dragon, half vampire, half angel, half devil....

To be fair, real-life humans have a demonstrated tendency to put their junk anywhere...

The only race that even remotely rivals humanity's willingness to breed with anything are dragons.

I wonder if that's because some dragons are prone to taking human form...

Starting out, I try to at least pick up the class skill bonuses of skills that fit the character build. You may also have better quality of life if you can hit DC 5-10 by taking 10 to swim or climb. Beyond that, you'd likely be better off focusing on certain skills and hope that the rest of the party balances you out. A jack-of-all-trades can do ok in the lower levels but in higher levels not even nat 20's will hit the DCs without help from skill ranks (and friends).

You may know this already but, just in case, don't forget that you can use your favored class bonus for an additional skill point if necessary.

I'll chime in my appreciation for 322. The backstory on the pre-gen sheet gives a great sense of the character. I had the privilege of playing her twice (2nd time for no credit) since we ran out of time in the final battle at GenCon the first time I played it. As others have done, I played up the creepy and ambivalent angle. Kind of like the 1,000 yard stare of one 'who has seen too much'. I also kept her awkwardly focused on her goals with simple but dark statements. As others have suggested, definitely take a close look at her gear and abilities. There were several things that I was not familiar with but have very interesting uses. If you can't get the character sheet in advance then andreww's spoiler tags should give a good head start.

There is also the valet familiar archetype which allows you to share teamwork feats.

I play my musket master on occasion. He's got precise shot, point blank shot, rapid shot, and deadly aim to start. Looking at the snap shot line and clustered shots (for DR) later on. Pre-UC errata, I had planned on focusing him on the targeting deed for great CC at range but post-errata I may end up switching to something else after level 5 as many others have done. Everyone has covered most suggestions pretty well so far. Only other thing that I would add, to help manage costs, is pre-load your musket in between combat with black powder and the bullet of your choice. Your first shot in combat will cost less and you'll have a lower misfire chance. Proceed to alchemical cartridges as normal for remaining shots. Hope you enjoy your gunslinger!

I recently completed my first retrain in preparation for starting Eyes of the Ten. As I do with most of my characters I planned a build only through level 12. Once I decided to run my samurai through EotT, I had to start planning out his build beyond level 12 which opens up a lot of options. Plus, given the greatly increasing difficulty of high level play, it is important to shore up character's weaknesses where possible.

That being said, the gold/time cost of the retrain was fine, for the most part (I'd almost say trivial except I don't want to have to pay even more.. ;) ). Swapping out his level dip from ranger to ectochymist alchemist stung with the 7pp cost. What hurt even more was in order to bring the retrain fully online at level 12 instead of level 13, I had to retrain a feat as well for an additional 5pp. I had strong reservations about burning through so many prestige but as soon as I hit my first combat I was very thankful I did. So, to second what others have said, retraining *can* be a very powerful option and thus might make sense to keep most of the prestige costs in place.

I also plan on retraining my strangler brawler/stygian slayer once he can pick up the Perfectionist Shavtoosh for Improved Unarmed Strike (which was removed for the strangler for some reason) and grab Greater Grapple for level 6.

There may be a disconnect with the 1pp/day formula in cases like languages. It makes sense for it to take time but not necessarily for it to take 20pp.

Validorn wrote:

If your GM permits a wand in a spring loaded wrist sheath (5g), it would cost a swift instead of a move to draw but still the usual standard action to activate.

Scrolls have table variation on fitting in a spring loaded wrist sheath. Wands should not

Spring loaded wrist sheath. See wrist sheath.

This is a sheath designed to be strapped to your forearm and hidden under a long sleeve. The sheath can hold one forearm-length item such as a dagger, dart, or wand, or up to five arrows or crossbow bolts.

True enough, fatigue mixed with YMMV on other aspects of wrist sheaths has me not taking anything for granted at the moment. ;)

BigNorseWolf wrote:

richard develyn wrote:

Action economy, though. It's hard to justify chewing up a round's worth of stuff just to add feather-step to your mount (i.e. for my ranged mounted ranger).

Richard

You really don't need to. Its a 10 minute level level spell, so you just burn 3 charges during your typical dungeon . You won't have it on if you're outside and running through the jungle , but those situations tend to be pretty rare, and the boots would take the same action economy now anyway.

Actually, I'm in a Kingmaker campaign with them, so we're constantly having wilderness encounters at unpredictable times of the day.

Ruchard

It would definitely cut into the price efficiency of a wand but if you have a cracked purple vibrant prism (2000g), you can store 1 spell level of spells. At that point it would only cost a standard action to cast and not the additional move to draw. Just refill the stone after each encounter/casting. If your GM permits a wand in a spring loaded wrist sheath (5g), it would cost a swift instead of a move to draw but still the usual standard action to activate.

As others have already stated, I'm also not thrilled with several of the changes in the errata (again) or that errata continue to be used predominantly for nerfs instead of clarifications. But the specifics are better reserved for the appropriate forum, i.e. main Paizo not PFS.

With that in mind, I do want to thank John for his diligence, pro-activity, understanding, and definitely patience with us as everyone processes these changes. While I must admit that the thought of discontinuing my participation with PFS* has begun to creep into my thoughts after reading yet another unpleasant errata, the people are what still make it worthwhile. Thank you very much for your on-going efforts!

*I call out PFS specifically because home games can employ whatever rule sets and equipment they want where as the Society campaign must enforce a common set of rules based on the latest versions of source material.

As far as scenarios go, it can definitely come down to luck of the draw. I've had several scenarios where my Dark Archives or Scarlet Crusade characters walked away with nothing. Unfortunately, the mechanical type checkboxes can be more difficult to check off than the 'story type' checkboxes as they depend heavily on how you build your character. Not everyone will be a linguist or put points in appraise or profession merchant, but with creativity (and some luck on a scenario) encounters can be resolved non-violently or an entrepreneur undermined, etc...

In fact, my Exchange Stygian Slayer/Strangler did one of those recently.

Hopefully, future faction cards will promote more such story type goals rather than possess x ranks in y or z skill. I think that's why there is the general instruction for GM's to be flexible on granting the completion of these checkboxes. Unfortunately, having a certain number of ranks or visiting specific towns does not allow much flexibility.

Do you enjoy seeing these boons on Chronicle sheets?

Has one of your PCs ever taken one?

Where do you feel the right balance is between power and drawbacks when handling these evil boons (e.g. benefits should be stronger, drawbacks should be stronger, the two should be roughly equal, or any variation on these)?

Do you have any other thoughts on the matter?

Nothing new to add but did want to chime in. I definitely enjoyed the 'evil boons' I've encountered so far. I've yet to actually acquire any of them because the good aligned characters I was playing at the time flatly refused to partake in them. There was some disappointment when I found out how powerful the effects were which felt 'inaccessible' to good characters but I would still make the same in-character decision. On the other hand, I have a lawful evil deity worshipping LN intimidate build tiefling samurai who would love to get his hands on an evil boon, even if it is nothing but flavor. I like how some boons crystalize some of the choices my characters make and can be a vehicle for greater roleplaying.

To that end, I think it would be nice, as others have mentioned, to support other playstyles, beyond evil or with good 'as its own reward'. It is important not to trivialize such choices like Pally's atoning for that time they wanted to go alignment slumming. I believe power should be balanced with drawbacks OR at least difficulty to acquire. The drawback should not only come into play in a completely separate scenario. (Too easy to avoid, on purpose or otherwise).

I also liked Magfire's suggestion of a good option to redeem evil. Same boon, different options to acquire it, less writing intensive.

Another thought that I want to share (which I will immediately shoot down, but still wanted to share):

Alignment cards that function like faction cards. In short, the more you stay true to your alignment you pick up some modest perks.

Now, some of the reasons an alignment card might be a terrible idea are 1) it's yet more paperwork to track, audit, etc... 2) it will likely start to pigeonhole a lot of roleplaying saying that all LN's must act this way or that this is what it means to be CG etc...

But, food for thought.

p.s. - Thanks for the awesome work and reaching out to the community for feedback!

Validorn wrote:

Would you be willing to provide a breakdown on how you get 132 hp and up to 40 AC on Gamanmaru?

Here goes:

*Numbers*

Awesome. Thanks G! That's pretty straight forward. Looks like I'm not too far from your base. I believe I use mithril four-mirror +1 (+7), Dex +2?, RoP +1, Shield Spell +4, and Barkskin +2 for a base of 26. It was the fighting defensively + Crane Wing combo that really widens the gap on AC, so I thought I was missing something. Given that my -1 is a Crane Wing Monk 12, I should have known better. :)

As far as hp, as soon as I saw the +5 from CON, it was an "Ah." moment. Certainly that plus toughness does most of the heavy lifting for accruing hp. Definitely a nice idea to rely on crits to balance damage in a tanky build. Thanks for sharing!

Out of curiosity, what allowed you to apply your favored class bonus for the 2 level dip in monk? I thought multiple FCB's were only available to half-elves.

Thanks for chiming in G.Radio. Would you be willing to provide a breakdown on how you get 132 hp and up to 40 AC on Gamanmaru?

My samurai is about 50 hp and 14 AC behind yours, although I went with ranger 1/bloodrager 1 instead of Monk 2.

Validorn wrote:

Penalties: So, in addition to the restriction on action economy and limited number of uses, you also take -4 AC in addition to the penalty of challenge, leaving you particularly vulnerable to other targets in exchange for a few extra d6's on one attack that can't crit (which seems to go against the spirit of brutal slash at level 3).

Depends.

If the target of your challenge dies, then the penalty to AC from challenge goes away (instantly, as far as I can tell). Your still left with that -4 AC. It's clearly designed to be a one-hit-wonder attack.

I do think the damage gained is low, given that the Sword Saint is unable to use two hands to wield their sword. Then again, as the target of the challenge, you are adding your level to the damage too.

Not sure, but I do think power attack could be used with Iaijutsu Strike. Mind you, if you miss the target, you can't try again, which really makes any ability that lowers your attack roll seem iffy.

So, level 1 Small Sword Saint with katana is 2d6+1+Str with Iaijutsu Strike. You've also got an 18-20 crit range to multiply 1d6+1+Str into 2d6+2+(2xStr), which totals to 3d6+2+(2xStr) via Iaijutsu Strike.

So, with Abadar's Measured Response feat (pretty sure it applies here) and a 14 strength, the katana halfling sword saint is doing 10 damage with normal Iaijutsu Strike, and 16 on a crit.

That seems like pretty sturdy damage for a level 1, even with a relatively low strength mod and the small version of the weapon. Especially given that it doesn't require the opponent to do anything other than be hit.

Also, I was thinking before that the Swift action for challenge would require an additional round, as I forgot that you can swift on the turn you make a full round action. So, if they come to you, Iaijutsu Stike could function in a single round. Less of a blue moon ability now.

All true. For not being the normal rage frothing greatsword/club wielding barbarian, 10 damage on a hit at level 1 isn't bad, in fact that's better than my level 4 inquisitor waiting for dex to damage to come online. :) It's still a lot of hoops to jump through to maybe kill a guy at level 1. My sammy hasn't been level one for a long time so I wasn't thinking in those terms. For the rest of your levels, the weakness of the 'one-hit-wonder' shows. Once iterative attacks come into play, you're far more vulnerable from the AC reduction and, I believe, you'll lose a fair amount of damage potential from not using your iteratives to iajutsu strike.

My Sword Saint 7/ misc 2, has only used Iajutsu strike once in 30 scenarios (took several levels slow). He only has a little over 80 hp so I'm definitely curious about your friends build Brigg. Anyway, there are many times I've regretted taking the archetype as the banner ability would have been used more often than any aspect of iajutsu; heck, same could probably even be said about a mount at this point. There are just too many penalties for an underwhelming ability.

Action economy: requires full-round action until near retirement, in fact, because of my level dips, I won't get the standard action until my samurai becomes a seeker. If and when I take him past retirement I will be using it much more often.

Utility: the sheathed weapon requirement isn't too bad as you can close with a different weapon as others have suggested, but this can only be used once per target, that you haven't attacked yet, and only against targets of your challenge, which in PFS, unless you go Order of the Flame is going to be capped at 4 times per day by level 10.

Penalties: So, in addition to the restriction on action economy and limited number of uses, you also take -4 AC in addition to the penalty of challenge, leaving you particularly vulnerable to other targets in exchange for a few extra d6's on one attack that can't crit (which seems to go against the spirit of brutal slash at level 3). Furthermore, I will say that for my intimidation build, terrifying iajutsu has a much lower DC (15 will save @ lvl 9 if I didn't dip) vs my normal intimidation bonus of +21 (+2 if I'm raging) with no rolls for the enemy, just a fixed DC to demoralize. You're also getting rid of 4 class features that could, arguably, have 100% uptime for a single ability with limited uses per day.

I think you'd probably gain more enjoyment using Doragon Feiku's method of "Iajutsu Striiiike". If you just want something for flavor that's perfectly fine, but by the same token you could just reflavor something else and actually be able to use it more often, for much greater effect, or at least with less penalty. I typically just joke that I Iajutsu strike a door with my adamantine katana when my party needs to make use of my 'skeleton key'.

Regarding rules, he's used his katana without issue and I've just gone with d20's guidance that mounted archer is replaced. Although, to be fair most people I've played with probably don't even know that my samurai is a sword saint, given that he doesn't use his abilities, so there's not much opportunity to really object to his build.

Here is an interesting guide on Aldori Swordlords. The guide does call out some traps but not in relation to the PrC itself. I hope that you find it helpful.

nosig wrote:

SO to para-phrase the title of this, "How does your character make the game more fun for the other people there?"

Usually by talking in a ridiculous voice and having a warped worldview.

+1

I've enjoyed playing with others, including the GM, who used some awesome voices to add flavor to a character.

My latest creation is a half-orc skald named Rufus Morgenborgenjorgensson who just level-dipped to pick up a dino familiar named "Station". His voice is a crude Scandinavian Marvin the Martian. :) The guy is focused on support, grabbing amplified rage only to pump greater skald's vigor down the line along with Guarded Life (+Greater) and maybe some other goodies.

I believe it is actually TWO sets of damage.

Standard action: damage as part of maintaining a grapple.
This deals 1d6+4 (unarmed) +2 (Kraken Style) +2d6 (sneak attack, which can be applied because he is a Strangler archetype).
Swift action: deal sneak attack damage.
2d6 (Strangler feat).

The feat says to "deal your sneak attack damage." It does not say to "add your sneak attack damage to the damage dealt."

And if it did, you wouldn't be able to, because you already did so. (The "stacking" concern that Muser raised.)

A similar situation occurs when a cleric uses Quick Channel in the same round that the Channel Energy to harm. If a target has resistance to positive (or negative, as the case may be), the target gets to apply that resistance to each damage. They are separate.

Also flagged to move to Rules Questions.

This is how I play my strangler who uses the strangler feat. Two separate sets of damage.

I've been trying to piece together a strength based Order of the Flame TWF Samurai as well, after Roronoa Zoro from One Piece. (Will definitely have fun with the mental stats!)

Basically a brute that runs around with 3 swords (carries one in his mouth), that is driven to be the best swordsman and is very difficult to kill.

Old faithfuls:
TWF, ITWF, Double-Slice

Other interests:
Endurance/Diehard (strong fit for the character)
Weapon Focus/Specialization (underwhelming for the feat cost)
Improved Critical (possibly a must-have with 3 wakizashis/katanas)
Power Attack (better damage and one less feat than w.focus/spec)
Critical Feats

After reading this, and a few other threads, I really like the idea of the swashbuckler dip to 'out attack' (Parry/Riposte) for defense. The ability to parry would increase as AC tanks from glorious challenges. Plus, the hope would be that killing blows/crits and thereby panache will be abundant. Although, Swashbuckler's finesse does nothing for a Str build. It would set-up a dex build nicely but doesn't quite fit the character and the thought of picking up 2-3 agile enchants isn't thrilling.

Also, considering difficult swings as a defensive action. Basically, use jaunt boots and quick runner's shirts (not in tandem obviously) to get in full attacks on challenged targets in hopes of dropping them fast. Then using difficult swings and 5ft step kiting to minimize enemy attacks. Obviously this would do nothing vs reach and ranged.

For PFS|
Anyone know if "Swashbuckler Weapon Training" qualifies as weapon training to get Difficult Swings?

Unbreakable fighter would be a great dip for endurance/diehard combo but misses out on parry/riposte and looks like it removes weapon training. Is anyone aware of other means to get that ability outside of Swashbuckler and Duelist PrC post-errata?

As Derklord pointed out, with your strength being that low, you may want to prioritize the Belt of Giant Strength, AoMF +1, oil of magic weapon (if no other enhancement bonus) etc. There would not be much benefit to increasing damage if it is still going to miss most of the time.

I have seen a build out there that does make good use of combat expertise because it was able to reduce the penalty (don't believe it was a monk), so unless you're going for *that* build or you need to grab an improved maneuver feat beyond your bonus feats, I do not recommend taking it. There are a multitude of other defensive options out there if you need it. My monk is still using a wand of mage armor and crane style for defense.

I have definitely enjoyed the use of slowfall on my monk but, as Imbicatus pointed out, there are many situations where it cannot be used at all or it could just as easily be replaced with a climb check which is a class skill.

So for comparitive purposes, the Qinggong barkskin plus ring of feather fall option costs 2,200 (not counting retraining costs) and gives perma-feather fall and 3 natural armor @ level 6 (4 NA @ 9) from a source that doesn't takes up a neck slot or require in-combat action economy.

Slowfall plus amulet of natural armor +1, on the other hand, would cost 2,000g, keep the situational-situational ability, give 1 natural armor and take up a neck slot. My monk (first character) has no archetypes but if/when I play him as a seeker, I may retrain into Qinggong if I'm willing to part with 600g and 5pp.

Edit: I also save my ki points for the extra attack which stacks with haste effects. :)

Yes, this is for PFS.

more often than not, i'm using the Bodywrap buff on my lowest flurry roll.
Since i'm still wondering how to upgrade the bodywraps and it'll probably get more expensive as i go- it was an experiment at 3k...

As for the Gloves, i already have the Handwraps of Blinding Ki. since i does apply to my archetype, i love being able to Punishing Kick multiple enemies in the same flurry.

I want to invest in a belt of giant strength/physical might, and a headband of inspired wisdom- but that takes me farther away from my goal of getting my Boon Amulet.

As far as belt/headband goes vs boon item:

Neck item: 28k +2 attack/damage and +2(?) Natural Armor

Belt of Giant Strength +4: 16k +2 attack/damage and +2 str-based skills
Headband of Inspired Wisdom +4: 16k +2 AC bonus (untyped), +2CMD, +2 Will, +2 Ki, +2 Wis skills, +2 Stun/Kick DC

It's easy enough to choose the neck item over the strength belt but the benefits of a wisdom headband for a monk is very difficult to beat. You could spend 4k more than the boon neck item, get the same benefits and a whole lot more from the headband/belt combo. Plus, you could still pick up an AoMF and enchant it right away with whatever special abilities you want since it doesn't require the +1 to start.

I'm not sure if PFS would allow you to upgrade a +2 AoMF into the boon. There are some threads on being able to upgrade magic items into specific named magic items, just not sure if it being a boon restricts that. However, the belt/headband would allow you to piece-meal your stats up as you go, increasing defense or offense as needed/desired as opposed to saving up lump sums (if upgrading to the boon is not an option).

I've a lvl 6 Hungry Ghost Monk, and I'm looking to make her a bit more versatile.

She current has some basic, but importantly she has-
Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes +1

My friend keeps telling me to invest in Monk's Robes and get the bonus AC and attack die upgrade.
But i like the idea of being able to upgrade my Bodywraps to enable elemental properties.

The Question is- should i sell the bodywraps and buy the Monk's Robes, OR should i stick with the Bodywraps and upgrade them when i have the money?

i'm also trying to save up for a boon item that's effectively a +2 Mighty Fist & Natural Armor with a couple of other enchantments for 28k.

The main thing I would consider is the up-time of the bodywrap. You're only getting the benefit, once per round for one attack (capping at 4/round). If this were for PFS, then the hungry ghost monk archetype is restricted to classic monk i.e. 3/4 BAB progression and normal flurry of blows, meaning that the number of attacks you get in a flurry can quickly outpace the number of attacks that can benefit from the bodywrap. Where as monk's robes and an AoMF would benefit every attack. Biggest trade-off is price point and neck slot. Another thing to consider is that running the numbers on a flurry can get a bit clunky at higher levels; the bodywrap will add to the complexity much like my furyborn AoMF did for my 'vanilla' monk.

Also note that there may be some overlap in enhancement bonuses between your boon item and your bodywrap.

This seems nice if using a gun with an other class is ok, Ranger Archetype

Indeed. Unfortunately, trophy hunter is not legal in PFS as are most non-gunslinger archetypes that use firearms. I had wanted to take that for a ranger dip for improved tracking instead of wild empathy on a different character but, alas... :(

+1 on GM Bold Strider's post.

I believe those stats are pretty close to my human musket master. He also started with a haramaki, eventually upgrading to darkleaf studded leather and endless bandolier once he had the cash. He carries a rapier and his bag of skittles (silver, cold-iron, adamantine bullets/cartridges). He keeps the musket pre-loaded with a bullet and powder to ease costs and misfire chance then switches to cartridges for any remaining attacks.

Once you get rolling on dex to damage and/or rapid shot, it should be pretty easy to keep your grit pool full from kills.

If you're interested in gaining stealth as a class skill, you could take the Bitter Nobleman (campaign trait) or Highlander (regional trait). The latter could be especially thematic for a tengu and helpful for a sniper.

Early feat pick-ups to consider (after Point Blank/Precise): Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, Clustered Shots (for DR)

As far as builds, I had planned on taking the Targeting Shot Signature Deed and the snap shot feat chain but this was pre-errata which nerfed both as well as the abundant ammunition option. One opinion mentioned on the forums several times in response to the errata is that multi-classing after level 5 (musket training for dex to damage) may be the better option now. Just some things to consider.

You could really be a Magus:

A Kensai Magus really could do this if you choose the "These should be martial class features" spells. Bladed Dash, Blade Tutor's Spirit, Jump, Magic Weapon, Shield, Thunderstomp, Truestrike, Unerring Weapon, Anticipate Thoughts, Brow Gasher, Quick Throwing, Tactical Acumen, Burst of Speed, Force Punch, Keen Edge, Locate Weakness, Resilient Reservoir, Titanic Anchoring, Versatile Weapon, Forceful Strike, Dimensional Blade, Borrowed Time, Explode Head.
But I guess the other option is Sohei or Weapon Adept Monk.

+1

I had a very difficult time deciding on a build for my "Kenshin" swordmaster. I looked at Thug/Scout Rogue, Daring Champion, etc. Part of the challenge was remaining committed to the katana but I ultimately decided on a kensai magus and challenging myself to RP him as a pure martial that uses many of the "techniques" Dominus mentioned.

Benefit: You can use an earth breaker as though it were a one-handed weapon.

Nothing says, "Benefit: You can use an earth breaker as though it were a one-handed weapon, while wielding a klar in your other hand." or anything else limiting when you can wield an earthbreaker one-handed.

Thus making the starting point 3d6 for a large earthbreaker.

Yes, on a second read through, you are absolutely correct. Although that would be quite an investment in a specific TWF style to then fight with a large 2h weapon. Could switch hit between 'big papa' and 'mini-me' + klar for defense I suppose.

And now we've moved from debating bastard swords to the Thunder and Fang debacle. There's a rules forum for this guys!

Like herding chickens. :P

I don't know that a questioning of advice given in the advice forums warrants a migration to the rules forum. ;) p.s. I believe the divine 'enlarge' you mentioned is Righteous Might (Cleric SL5, personal), at least that is the only one that came to mind.

But yeah, aside from weapon choices, as others have mentioned: enlarge/demonic bulk, impact/lead blades, large weapon. I was just reading some threads on improved natural attack, feral combat training, and strong jaw combos if you'd like to try a natural/unarmed attack route.

you can wield an earthbreaker as a one handed weapon. Thus making it a 2d6 one handed weapon and the best for vital strikes, because a large becomes 3d6 instead of 2d8, 4d6 instead of 3d8, and 6d6 instead of 4d8

If I'm reading Thunder and Fang correctly, it looks like the earthbreaker only counts as one-handed so long as you are also wielding a klar. This suggests that a large earthbreaker would not be possible so the comparison for a starting point would be 2d6 (medium 2h earthbreaker) vs 2d8 (large 2h bastard sword w/ EWP or ioun). Is that correct?

I've got a similar build on my 'spell breaker behemoth'. He's arcane/abyssal to get auto-enlarge during bloodrage for reach and action economy. I figured that was a decent replacement for blur at 4th level.

1: Phalanx Formation
3: Combat Reflexes
5: Power Attack
6: Disruptive (B)
7: Lunge/Shapeshifter Foil/Undecided.... (not 100% if spells could qualify bloodrager for foil)
9: Iron Will (B) due to will penalties of cross-blooded, I also RP him as wearing a 'tin foil hat' because he's worried about his mind being taken over by evil spellcasters.
11: Spellbreaker (retrain to teleport tactician @12)
12: Spellbreaker (B)