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Yeah, I wondered if something like that wasn't the case when you talked about being the team cannon. Still, every fight is different, so hopefully you'll get to play around with different tactics next time.
I love that even though you didn't get to use the tactics you built for, you still really enjoyed the character. What was your experience like outside of combat?
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So Mark, do size bonuses from Kinetic Form provide bonuses on the trip and other CMD checks?
The only thing that explicitly swaps out is Con, so other bonuses would apply, yeah.
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So Mark, do size bonuses from Kinetic Form provide bonuses on the trip and other CMD checks?The only thing that explicitly swaps out is Con, so other bonuses would apply, yeah.
Aces, I could see it working both ways, this might push up Kinetic Form a color since it helps with CMB builds which need all the help they can get with a medium BAB, even with Elemental Overflow.
Granted, assuming that you push for the maximum on a max 15 pushing is assuming a lot.Okay, this statement seems to imply that 15' push on a blast means you have to not only exceed their CMD, but exceed it by an extra 5 for every 5 extra feet you want to push them. Am I reading that right? I had a bit of a list of questions including this one for you earlier but I think it got missed. Now, most spells do say you push them 5', +5'/5 exceeded, but pushing doesn't have that wording and given how costly it is to use I feel like it shouldn't. Most spells that let you push things around are fairly low level and when we start using level 4+ slas, it feels like it should naturally be less restrictive, especially given the other awesome choices we could be doing instead. Still, that's an intent call fo you to make and a faq/errata rules call for the rest of paizo staff.
It looks like the next bit agrees with using pushing and snaking to push in any direction at least, which is nice.
The bits (in pushing and in flurry of blasts) about increasing the maximum distance it can push increase the maximum, not the minimum; it otherwise works like a bull rush using Con. The extra maximum for the push was something I included for when you're higher level with plenty of infusion specialization and you want to push somebody; for instance, at level 14+, when you want to push someone with snaking, the added maximum is free.
Aces, I could see it working both ways, this might push up Kinetic Form a color since it helps with CMB builds which need all the help they can get with a medium BAB, even with Elemental Overflow.So Mark, do size bonuses from Kinetic Form provide bonuses on the trip and other CMD checks?The only thing that explicitly swaps out is Con, so other bonuses would apply, yeah.
By my math, given the stat boosts and flat to-hit bonus from overflow, assuming Improved/Greater feats being equal, most full-BAB classes aren't going to be that much better at their CMB to bull rush anyway (and a few will be worse), and they don't typically get it as a rider on each hit either. Even a 12th-level brawler with manuever training 3 in bull rush is looking at class-based (including BAB) bonuses of +15 (12 BAB + 3 maneuver training), compared to a level 12 kineticist's also +15 (9 BAB + 4 direct overflow + 2 indirectly from overflow size bonus).
Okay, so the additional burn spent on the blast to increase max push distance is "any burn spent on this blast" not "any extra burn spent *just* on pushing"? That helps a little I suppose since it at least means I'm not trying to add 2 burn to my blast just for the chance to push farther. I still feel like needing to make such a high CMB will be somewhere between difficult and impossible for most people, which is sad considering how neat it would be to have a class that can actually use forced movement as a...The bits (in pushing and in flurry of blasts) about increasing the maximum distance it can push increase the maximum, not the minimum; it otherwise works like a bull rush using Con. The extra maximum for the push was something I included for when you're higher level with plenty of infusion specialization and you want to push somebody; for instance, at level 14+, when you want to push someone with snaking, the added maximum is free.Granted, assuming that you push for the maximum on a max 15 pushing is assuming a lot.Okay, this statement seems to imply that 15' push on a blast means you have to not only exceed their CMD, but exceed it by an extra 5 for every 5 extra feet you want to push them. Am I reading that right? I had a bit of a list of questions including this one for you earlier but I think it got missed. Now, most spells do say you push them 5', +5'/5 exceeded, but pushing doesn't have that wording and given how costly it is to use I feel like it shouldn't. Most spells that let you push things around are fairly low level and when we start using level 4+ slas, it feels like it should naturally be less restrictive, especially given the other awesome choices we could be doing instead. Still, that's an intent call fo you to make and a faq/errata rules call for the rest of paizo staff.
It looks like the next bit agrees with using pushing and snaking to push in any direction at least, which is nice.
The additional burn would be extra burn spent on that infusion. For instance, at level 14, you have infusion specialization 4. Normally a pushing snake costs 3, so there is no reason not to increase pushing to have a max 10 feet.
I didn't properly equip and I "quick spent" skill points, but I still was able to contribute and probably had one of the most awesome "scenes" in out of combat experience. I told a story to a king "about a great feat or challenge". I described killing something in the underdark by dropping a rock on it. I spent a burn to activate my heavy lifting and picked up the entire grand hall dining table, dire boar and all, then casually drank my wine through a telestraw. It was... suitably impressive.Yeah, I wondered if something like that wasn't the case when you talked about being the team cannon. Still, every fight is different, so hopefully you'll get to play around with different tactics next time.
I love that even though you didn't get to use the tactics you built for, you still really enjoyed the character. What was your experience like outside of combat?
That's pretty awesome!
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How about Foe Throw targeting specific squares? Can I just bypass pushing them at all and faceplate them into the ground 30' ---> that way? Or do I need two enemies alive and available to attack to even properly use foe throw? Can I toss a half dead squirrel in a corner and use it as a target to throw people at?
I was wondering this too, as well as if you foe throw someone downwards, do they also take falling damage if they hit the ground?
I don't see why you couldn't foe throw someone at a point in space or an object--you can target any other kinetic blast this way, and it would be fantastically arbitrary to rule that a telekinetic blast/foe throw wouldn't work the same way. I mean, yes the description says "You throw a nearby unattended object at a single foe as a ranged attack", but that's different from "Target: One creature" or other specific terminology.
Now, I don't necessarily think a creature being thrown at the ground should take extra damage from it--it's not explicitly stated, but it could be argued that the damage from your telekinetic blast/foe throw is from the impact of the thrown thing hitting the target, so that's already accounted for. Of course, if you threw a guy at the ceiling and then it fell and hit the ground, I'd argue it would take normal falling damage from that, in addition to your kinetic blast damage for hitting the ceiling. And hey, if you're lucky, maybe you'll damage the ceiling enough to cause a cave-in on top of the target!
I see your point, but they do still get a Fort save to negate the whole thing, so I don't see it as being too overwhelming.
N.Jolly, here's something I'd like to ask:
Ranged Blast is a talent for the Duelist, which allows it to shoot a blast, even at a short range.
Would it be balanced if Ranged Blast would be available for the Elemental Ascetic?
N.Jolly, here's something I'd like to ask:
Ranged Blast is a talent for the Duelist, which allows it to shoot a blast, even at a short range.
Would it be balanced if Ranged Blast would be available for the Elemental Ascetic?
I feel like I can speak for him here. Hold on a sec.
*mumble grumble* Of course it would be balanced! Elemental Ascetic needs all the help it can get.
Here's a fun question-Shift Earth. It mentions what happens if I move the earth from under someone's feet. Can I use it to make a 5 ft section of the ceiling of a cave come crashing down on my opponent?
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N.Jolly, here's something I'd like to ask:
Ranged Blast is a talent for the Duelist, which allows it to shoot a blast, even at a short range.
Would it be balanced if Ranged Blast would be available for the Elemental Ascetic?
I feel like I can speak for him here. Hold on a sec.
*mumble grumble* Of course it would be balanced! Elemental Ascetic needs all the help it can get.
I agree with my impersonation.
Also any questions or comments about KOP material (even in regards to how it would or should function with 1st party material) should be posted in the Kineticist of Porphrya discussion thread.
N.Jolly, here's something I'd like to ask:
Ranged Blast is a talent for the Duelist, which allows it to shoot a blast, even at a short range.
Would it be balanced if Ranged Blast would be available for the Elemental Ascetic?
I feel like I can speak for him here. Hold on a sec.
*mumble grumble* Of course it would be balanced! Elemental Ascetic needs all the help it can get.
I agree with my impersonation.
Also any questions or comments about KOP material (even in regards to how it would or should function with 1st party material) should be posted in the Kineticist of Porphrya discussion thread.
Oh, ok, fair enough ;)
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If a Kineticist obtained Impaling Critical, if an Earth Kineticist used Kinetic Blade and confirmed a critical hit, would the damage dice be applied when the Kinetic Blade disappear? Would it apply if they used Kinetic Whip?
If you ever want to add more magical items to the guide, what about the various items that improve combat maneuvers? Pauldrons of the Bull look like they'd be amazing for anybody who wants to use Pushing Infusion, while Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver would be useful for improving your ability with Pushing or Bowling infusions, as well as Telekinetic Maneuvers.
I know most people would want the shoulders slot for a Cloak of Resistance, but if you can get the resistance bonus some other way (I really really love automatic bonus progression) or double up on your enchantments, the pauldrons would be great, and there really aren't any other must-have items that use the hand slot.
And the Hollywreath Band looks like it could help Wood kineticists, especially if you rule that it applies to their kinetic blasts.
So I'm going to be in a kingmaker game likely starting next month, and after finding out Power Attack doesn't work with touch attacks like it did in 3.5, I'm kinda stuck.
See, it's a gestalt game and I'm going to be a Kineticist/Ranger, but have no idea what Combat Style to pick now since I'm starting Pyro and Two-Handed won't work until 7th. At the moment the character has Weapon Finesse and Kinetic Blade.
KB and Shield would be pretty good. Just be aware that it would affect your ability to Gather Power (unless you use a Buckler!). Other than that, archery would be the better way to go to boost the emphasis on ranged blasts. Specifically being able to pick up Improved Precise Shot at 6th level...
*EDIT*
Actually... which element are did you pick? That could definitely affect your options...
Fire, and light shields leave your hand open. Grabbing KB was so I had more options than "I 5ft and blast".
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KB and Shield would be pretty good. Just be aware that it would affect your ability to Gather Power (unless you use a Buckler!). Other than that, archery would be the better way to go to boost the emphasis on ranged blasts. Specifically being able to pick up Improved Precise Shot at 6th level...
As a Kineticist, he needs to keep his hands free for Gather Power.
I suggest using Inner Sea Combat and picking up the Sarenrae Combat Style for the Ranger (must worship Sarenrae). Here's the bonus feats: "Improved Initiative, Mobility, Nimble Moves, and Sidestep. At 6th level, he adds Whirlwind Attack and Wind Stance to the list. At 10th level, he adds Lightning Stance and Spring Attack to the list."
The big thing here, is Whirlwind Attack at 6th, normally a difficult thing for a character to pick up without sacrificing all of his feats for it and losing out on combat effectiveness. Since you're a Ranger, you ignore the pre-reqs on your bonus feats, so you can just pick up Whirlwind Attack no problem. You also get Improved Initiative as a choice as well, which is always a good choice.
This lets you be a pretty good area denial melee character, especially if you opt to pick up Lunge and/or Kinetic Whip. Since Kinetic Form doesn't decrease your Dex at all for using it, you could be a mean, mean, finesse based reach build. With your high single attack damage, combined with Kinetic Whip and Whirlwind Attack, you are, effectively, an AoE damage dealer.
With Kinetic Whip, Kinetic Form, and Lunge, conservatively, you'll have a reach of 25 ft., or, essentially, a 50 ft. diameter AoE that does your full Kinetic Blast damage (plus any infusions).
I'm not saying you should play a blonde elf in white tights with a green tunic and hat, nor am I saying you should name your weapon the Master Sword... but it might be fun :P
[Edit] However, if you do decide to go through with it, your character cannot speak. Ever. You can only grunt and yell.
I might have to not worship Yggdrasil, Aspect of Gozreh with this character now...
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KB and Shield would be pretty good. Just be aware that it would affect your ability to Gather Power (unless you use a Buckler!). Other than that, archery would be the better way to go to boost the emphasis on ranged blasts. Specifically being able to pick up Improved Precise Shot at 6th level...As a Kineticist, he needs to keep his hands free for Gather Power.
Bucklers allow you to use your hands.
Benefit: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an offhand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler’s Armor Class bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler’s Armor Class bonus until your next turn. You can’t make a shield bash with a buckler.
True on that, but gathering power occupies your hand, so while it doesn't stop you from gathering power, you don't get the shield bonus to it while gathering power. I think Mark said something to that effect earlier in the thread, it's also to make sure water's elemental defense matters more, since slapping on a buckler is super easy and cheap.
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Note that melee builds that rely on full attacks rather than gather power can benefit from shields since they in general only need one hand free.
An Aetherkineticist could use the Shield as his weapon for attacks thus could potentially gather power and still attack. Not sure if he would need Shield Prof and Improved Shield Bash to keep the AC though, or if this works with ranged attacks as well.
Does anyone know if the blast damage from Aether bypasses the weapon's hardness automatically? At low levels you can be hard pressed to actually damage your weapon if it doesn't.
Does anyone know if the blast damage from Aether bypasses the weapon's hardness automatically? At low levels you can be hard pressed to actually damage your weapon if it doesn't.
The general rule is that every type of damage applies to hardness, so unless something specifically says otherwise, then the Aether damage also applies.
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Updates to the guide:
Added new 3rd party material reviews (which should be discussed here)
Single spaced the guide because I don't know why I didn't in the first place.
Also Elemental Annihilator and Blood Kineticist have both had their ratings changed.
Why was elemental annihilator made orange?
Looking through it, even though it does good damage, the amount of utility it lost finally got to me. I can't suggest it as much as I could before simply due to that huge drop, and developing things myself helped me see that.
Why was blood kineticist made green?
As stated in the review, I was being more cynical about when it should be viable than I should have been. Water's still a fine element, and while all of the blood kineticist's tricks might not work all the time, they've still got a solid chassis so you're never completely dead in the water (PUN!) even when you can't use them. I'd say it's green overall with orange/red while it's unable to be used to the fullest.
You know, I think Searing Flesh might be orange or a very orange-ish green. But that's because I stopped looking at it like a defense. No, Searing Flesh is just a different attack.
At level 2 with 18 Con you can just pour 7 burn into it and deal 7 damage to anything that hits you. Yes, you just took 14 non-lethal, but even if you fall unconscious things that attack still burn. At level 4, that's 28 non-lethal to deal 14 damage.
Time to walk straight into swarms. :)
You know, I think Searing Flesh might be orange or a very orange-ish green. But that's because I stopped looking at it like a defense. No, Searing Flesh is just a different attack.
At level 2 with 18 Con you can just pour 7 burn into it and deal 7 damage to anything that hits you. Yes, you just took 14 non-lethal, but even if you fall unconscious things that attack still burn. At level 4, that's 28 non-lethal to deal 14 damage.
Time to walk straight into swarms. :)
This doesn't actually work. accepting burn to increase damage does nothing till lv4. lvs 2-3 is maxed out at 1 damage. at lv4 accepting burn to increase it increases it by 1. So at lv4 you can take 28 non-lethal to do 8 damage to things that attack you. Better hope that they don't have fire resist or are attacking with a weapon, cause if they are you just did nothing to it.
I'm reading the minimum 1 to work on any extra burn taken too, to try and make it worthwhile.
Why it doesn't burn people using non-reach melee weapons is beyond me. Every ability that hurt melee attackers before Searing a Flesh did.
I'm reading the minimum 1 to work on any extra burn taken too, to try and make it worthwhile.
Why it doesn't burn people using non-reach melee weapons is beyond me. Every ability that hurt melee attackers before Searing a Flesh did.
Actually, Searing Flesh is operating as per the norm, as far as I'm aware.
Any creature striking you with its body or a hand-held weapon deals normal damage, but at the same time the attacker takes 1d6 points of damage + 1 point per caster level (maximum +15). This damage is either cold damage (if you choose a chill shield) or fire damage (if you choose a warm shield). If the attacker has spell resistance, it applies to this effect. Creatures wielding melee weapons with reach are not subject to this damage if they attack you.
Most abilities only deal damage to those attacking with natural weapons or unarmed attacks, or they deal damage to the weapon itself. Typically, if the person striking the enemy takes damage, then someone wielding a reach weapon is usually exempt from the damage, as they are out of range.
Searing Flesh strikes me as a good deterrent to things whose attack routine looks like "Bite, 2 claws, 2 wings, 3 prehensile asses." The damage will add up over attacks, and hopefully encourage the monster to go after a less painful target.
It's one of those things that, while not in the rules, is something that the GM should consider. If the critter with animal intelligence is looking for someone to bite, it's first choices are most likely not going to be the person in full plate, the one covered in spikes, or the one who is on fire. The difference is that it's going to take a while for the fighter to afford the full plate, but the pyrokineticist is more or less constantly on fire starting at level 2.
*snip*.
The part you bolded? Means people attacking with stuff like longswords still take damage. Searing Flesh doesn't even do anything if someone uses brass knuckles. And it's damage is terrible, especially if you use burn to boost it. Something needs to change.
*snip*.The part you bolded? Means people attacking with stuff like longswords still take damage. Searing Flesh doesn't even do anything if someone uses brass knuckles. And it's damage is terrible, especially if you use burn to boost it. Something needs to change.
How do people attacking with brass knuckles not take damage? I don't understand. Anyone attacking the pyro with a melee attack (that is not a reach weapon) takes the damage.
Edit: Nevermind, wow, I've been reading it wrong all along.
I could wrap paper soaked in kerosene around my hand and attack a Pyrokineticest without fear as long as I used the paper as an improvised weapon.
Think about that for a second.
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Updates to the guide:
Added new 3rd party material reviews (which should be discussed here)
Searing Flesh strikes me as a good deterrent to things whose attack routine looks like "Bite, 2 claws, 2 wings, 3 prehensile asses." The damage will add up over attacks, and hopefully encourage the monster to go after a less painful target.
My problem here is that anything with animal level intelligence survived as long as it did by learning not to eat fire. For a multi attack monster (maybe a dragon), it would make sense to have that many natural attacks, but tons of natural attacks aren't really the norm. I'd say 3/4 natural attacks are the average (which while a decent amount) doesn't really make taking the most easily resisted damage type any more appealing to me.
Personally, I think Searing Flesh needs a wild talent that strengthens Searing Flesh, allowing it to deal damage to weapon wielders, but also deal damage to weapons targeting the kineticist before they strike her. This would let a pyrokineticist do things like possibly incinerate a weapon before it ever strikes her.