
Rylar |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

I agree it is much more specialized. I would still want to take the wild talent to get it if archery is being used in my campaign, thus I think it's green (worth considering).
IMO the best defense ability is force ward. It's the only one that helps against magical damage. Also it really only costs half as much to pump up at the beginning of the day (by granting a shield= to half the damage you take from burn).
I like the fire shield as well. It combines so well with flesh of stone (esp on a melee/whip build). Grappling someone with this ability is simply painful. I think as a talent it is also green.
I do wish that both talents increased at the same rate as flesh of stone. The one per 2 level increase is really what makes the talent so good. I feel that it was pushed a little harder than wind or fire was.

Shiroi |
DR also falls behind later in the game, it must scale more quickly to remain relevant because by later levels it's ignored by more things, overwhelmed by large damage values, and applies to only half of all attacks. AC on the other hand is much more useful in a wider variety of attacks, and becomes more awesome the more of it you have. Temp HP is almost a static gain (I'd like 5 more hp at the end of the game almost as much as I'd like it at the start. More hp is more hp.)
So DR has to scale quicker, or it falls behind quicker.
Also I'm glad someone else likes the fire defense. I know its even more situational than DR, and for the life of me I can't find a chart that shows what the damage for it should be at different levels and different burn amounts, but it's really quite nice for certain campaigns. Close quarters campaigns against mostly monsters, it's a real incentive to make the ghoul attack someone else.

Andrew Mullen Contributor |

What are people's thoughts on Mobile Blast as a later-game option? I recently noticed that if you can reduce the burn to 0, it has no duration limit. It's also a form infusion, so you could add debuff capabilities onto it. So with some internal buffer use, you could have something like a permanent source of +hit (via magnetic infusion) following you around as early as what, level 8?
Obvious drawbacks are having to deal with reflex saves, and action economy to move it around. There's also the fact that it's another class thing specified as extremely loud, so you can't be stealthy with it.
I'm thinking about the primarily for my geokineticist, where I'll probably be doubling down earth at 7. There were a couple levels where there weren't stand out amazing infusion options, and the flavor of a roiling cloud of stone and metal entangling or magnetizing people on a whim seems appealing! Moreso if I can convince my GM to let me do a homebrew feet to redirect it as a swift action, but that might be a bit much.

Chess Pwn |

Fire's damage is 1 until level 8 when it becomes 2 and at lv12 it's 3...
If you spend burn it's 1 damage until lv4. Then it becomes 1 damage per burn. at lv 8 each point of burn increases it by 2, at 12 it's 3.
You can only increase with burn up to 7 times. So lvs 1-3 max damage is 1, 4-7 you're maxed at 8 damage base. 8-11 it's 16, at 12-15 it's 24.
Grappling doubles the amount.
accepting burn from a fire effect doubles everything.

Rylar |

other than health/con mod, what is keeping you from using 7 burn at level 2 (when defense is gained)?
If you start with 18 con there is nothing keeping you from 5 fire damage and having as much health as a 10 con/D8 char at level 2 is there?
A few questions about what triggers the doubling damage
Using a utility wild talent with a burn cost?
Using a form/substance infusion with a blast?
Raising the burn level of the defense talent?
Using a composite blast?
Meta infused blast?
What if I use a point from my internal buffer?
The defense side of this talent is that a melee character no longer wants to attack you. Not to mention the grappling character that cries when he grabs hold of you.

Chess Pwn |

other than health/con mod, what is keeping you from using 7 burn at level 2 (when defense is gained)?
If you start with 18 con there is nothing keeping you from 5 fire damage and having as much health as a 10 con/D8 char at level 2 is there?
A few questions about what triggers the doubling damage
Using a utility wild talent with a burn cost?
Using a form/substance infusion with a blast?
Raising the burn level of the defense talent?
Using a composite blast?
Meta infused blast?
What if I use a point from my internal buffer?The defense side of this talent is that a melee character no longer wants to attack you. Not to mention the grappling character that cries when he grabs hold of you.
So for levels 2 and 3 using extra burn into it doesn't increase the damage at all, since it gives you +1 damage if you're lv4. So that's what is keeping you from doing that much damage.
So all but the internal buffer trigger the double damage, the internal buffer stops you from taking burn so that's why it doesn't work.
And it effects the weapon if they attack with a weapon, so it's unlikely to get past it's hardness. It does dissuade unarmed attacks and grapples though, as long as they don't have fire resist or immunity.

Faelyn |

Sphynx wrote:Tels wrote:I believe what Faelyn is saying is that, the damage of an Improvised Weapon (regardless if you have Throw Anything or not) is that of an Improvised Weapon, not the weapon given stats of that weapon (and of course, regardless of the weapon, only Crits on a 20 for double damage). Throw Anything doesn't let you use the weapon's default damage or Crit stuff, it just removes the -4 penalty. So if you "throw" a Falchion at someone, it does 1d6/20x2 damage, not 2d4/18-20x2.Faelyn wrote:Tels wrote:StuffI'll just say this... I disagree with your interpretation of the rules there and we'll leave it at that. I think we can agree to disagree.I'm curious, which part do you disagree with? That the feats don't grant proficiency? None of the feats state they grant proficiency; there's no interpretation here.
Or that Catch Off-Guard and Throw Anything use very similar language to the proficiency feats? Because they do, and, again, is not an interpretation.
I honestly want to know which part it is you disagree with, because neither are interpretations.
No, no he's not. Unless he has absolutely no clue of how to phrase such a thing, what he said is not related to the weapon's damage.
He made this post:
Faelyn wrote:DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:Take Throw Anything, and you're proficient in anything you throw.Unfortunately that's not how Throw Anything works. It doesn't provide proficiency, it negates the -4 penalty.To which I responded with this post, which is too long to quote. Basically, it quotes all of the 'X Weapon Proficiency' feats, along with Catch Off-Guard and Throw Anything. If you read the feats, no where do they actually state you gain proficiency with the weapon chosen.
So,...
What I am saying is that my interpretation of the X Weapon Proficiency feats is that they do grant you proficiency in the selected weapon due to the word PROFICIENCY being a part of the name of the feat. That is my interpretation. Your interpretation differs. That does not mean either of us is wrong, it just means we have a difference of opinion. Neither of us was the original source of the material in question, so therefore we both interpret what it means.
In regards to the Throw Anything feat, yes, I was implying that the damage for the Telekineticist's blast would not change based on taking Throw Anything, because it does not mention anything about Proficiency anywhere at all.

Tels |

A post on Facebook alerted me to something, maybe it should be noted for Enveloping Winds (the Air Defense talent) that the seeking property for ranged weapons completely defeats the defense talent.
This special ability can only be placed on ranged weapons. A seeking weapon veers toward its target, negating any miss chances that would otherwise apply, such as from concealment. The wielder still has to aim the weapon at the right square. Arrows mistakenly shot into an empty space, for example, do not veer and hit invisible enemies, even if they are nearby.
You constantly surround yourself with a whirling torrent of air, crackling arcs of lightning, or both to protect yourself from ranged attacks. All ranged attacks made with physical weapons suffer a 20% miss chance against you, except for attacks from massive weapons such as a giant's thrown boulder or a ballista. This ability has no effect on ray attacks. The miss chance increases by 5% for every 5 kineticist levels you possess beyond 2nd. By accepting 1 point of burn, you can increase the miss chance by 5% until the next time your burn is removed. You can continue to accept points of burn to increase the miss chance further, up to a maximum of 75%. Whenever you accept burn while using an air wild talent, the energy surging through you causes your enveloping winds to also affect non-physical ranged attacks such as ray attacks for 1 round.
You can dismiss or restore this effect as an immediate action.
Even at it's strongest (75% miss chance) Enveloping Winds can be completely defeated by a +1 seeking longbow costing 8,000 gp and some change.

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So from what I understand. Air is the fast moving air born sniper, earth is the hardened ground shock trooper, fire is the rapidly burning flame that eats through the enemy line, water is an adaptable figure, and aether has some of the best technical abilities for keeping things moving. I wonder what sort of impact the occult origins is going to have on the guide, especially with the potential promise for new elements like wood and void making an appearance.
Also no mention of the suli, the half-genie race with some good con and an affinity for elemental styles.
Also, I believe that overwhelming soul was ment to help races without con, or con penalties to become better kineticists. A vampire Kineticist might actually be quite dangerous, considering they are already quite strong, and really don't mind some of those negative levels that may occur from burn.

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Is anyone seeing the builds section up yet? I thought a few pages back jolly talked about already having done the builds...
That was actually for a project I was doing freelance, I'll probably post a link to it once it's out. Sorry all, just got MGS5 so my time is shot. I want to get back to this but I have that and another project, making this a back burner project for now. Really I'd consider it about done anyways since the magic items section is meh, but the 20 sample characters really burnt me out of doing sample builds for a bit.

Shiroi |
Though I'd argue that it's not a "concentration requiring" ability in that way. For home games I'd allow it if there wasn't a bad balance reason not to (which I don't currently see at all). To me it feels like you're lashing out with primal magics, a very rage fueled thing indeed, more than casting a spell (no chanting and complicated hand signs for kineticists, we grab fire by the handle and sling it directly in their face).

Johnny_Devo |

Though I'd argue that it's not a "concentration requiring" ability in that way. For home games I'd allow it if there wasn't a bad balance reason not to (which I don't currently see at all). To me it feels like you're lashing out with primal magics, a very rage fueled thing indeed, more than casting a spell (no chanting and complicated hand signs for kineticists, we grab fire by the handle and sling it directly in their face).
I think that might be arguable if it weren't for the fact that you still can deliberately change it using substance infusions. I think that in this case, you're still casting the SLA, but because it's part of an attack action you're not leaving any defensive openings. Rather, your stance is aggressive enough while you're doing this action that you're forcing them to adopt their normal defensive stance.
At least that's how I explain it not requiring a defensive cast while you're still deliberately casting it.

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The balance reason not to is that if blasts don't require concentration then you can use them not just with the rage spell, but with barbarian rage. That +4 Con could do a lot. Variant Multiclass (barbarian) would basically be a must-have for a kineticist if available.
Also no mention of the suli, the half-genie race with some good con and an affinity for elemental styles.
Suli don't have good Con, they have +2 Str +2 Cha -2 Int. That's a bonus on the typical kineticist's two least favourite stats. They also don't have anything that particularly helps with elemental magic; elemental assault works with normal weapon attacks, and elemental resistances overlap with resistances gained from many elementally themed domains and archetypes, including the kineticist's heat/cold adaptation.
I'd love to see a good Suli racial archetype for the kineticist because it's thematic but mechanically really lacklustre.

Shiroi |
Shiroi wrote:Though I'd argue that it's not a "concentration requiring" ability in that way. For home games I'd allow it if there wasn't a bad balance reason not to (which I don't currently see at all). To me it feels like you're lashing out with primal magics, a very rage fueled thing indeed, more than casting a spell (no chanting and complicated hand signs for kineticists, we grab fire by the handle and sling it directly in their face).I think that might be arguable if it weren't for the fact that you still can deliberately change it using substance infusions. I think that in this case, you're still casting the SLA, but because it's part of an attack action you're not leaving any defensive openings. Rather, your stance is aggressive enough while you're doing this action that you're forcing them to adopt their normal defensive stance.
At least that's how I explain it not requiring a defensive cast while you're still deliberately casting it.
I could see an argument against substance infusions infusions, reducing you to uncomplicated raw damage. That would make sense for a rage, since you're mostly focused on beating them senseless. And perhaps even deciding at the start of game that you can only use a single form every time, so you have this instinctive action going on. It's a bit houserule but I don't see much reason to deny it to a player if it's thematically viable for them.
As for the +4 con, you're definitely right. That can be a major game changer, with a +2 to hit and damage. But if you regular multiclass you start losing a lot of power for that, and if you VMC you don't get to VMC a few other *really* solid choices. Like weapon training in kinetic blade from fighter vmc, or sneak attack dice from rogue vmc. VMC in general is a very powerful choice for kineticists, since we give up a resource (feats) which we didn't have as much use for as a normal character, for the best traits of a new class.
Speaking of vmc, how would a kineticist with the healer archetype (who gets mercies) interact with lay on hands from the paladin vmc? Can you use those mercies on the free 1/2 lay on hands abilities to make status effects a thing of the past? I feel like since it says each time she uses kinetic healer,this doesn't interact like I wish it did. If this was at least houseruleable, I feel the chirurgeon might actually become a useful (okay,fine, a less suboptimal) archetype.

Faelyn |

I would say that if VMC is allowed in your campaign and you play a Telekineticist there is no reason NOT to VMC into rogue... Invisibility at will and SA is a phenomenal boost to damage. Once you pick up PBS and Precise Shot there aren't many other feats you need, other than Toughness perhaps.
Edit
After actually checking the rogue VMC... I stand corrected. It's only an extra +4d6 damage total near end game levels. That's... Underwhelming.

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Shiroi wrote:Like weapon training in kinetic blade from fighter vmc, or sneak attack dice from rogue vmc.Kinetic Blade isn't in any weapon group for the fighter, so weapon training does nothing for a melee kineticist using Kinetic Blade. It only helps those using Kinetic Fist.
Would a Weapon Master Fighter's Weapon Training cover this?
Devoted to the perfection of a single weapon, the weapon master’s meditations upon his favored weapon border on the obsessive, but none can deny his consummate skill. The weapon master must select a single type of weapon (such as longsword or shortbow). All of his abilities apply to that weapon type.
Weapon Guard (Ex): At 2nd level, a weapon master gains a +1 bonus to CMD against disarm and sunder attempts while wielding his chosen weapon. This bonus also applies on saves against any effect that targets his chosen weapon (for example, grease, heat metal, shatter, warp wood). The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd. This ability replaces bravery.
Weapon Training (Ex): At 3rd level, a weapon master gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with his chosen weapon. The bonus improves by +1 for every four levels beyond 3rd. This ability replaces armor training 1, 2, 3, and 4.

Skylancer4 |

Tels wrote:Shiroi wrote:Like weapon training in kinetic blade from fighter vmc, or sneak attack dice from rogue vmc.Kinetic Blade isn't in any weapon group for the fighter, so weapon training does nothing for a melee kineticist using Kinetic Blade. It only helps those using Kinetic Fist.Would a Weapon Master Fighter's Weapon Training cover this?
Weapon Master wrote:Devoted to the perfection of a single weapon, the weapon master’s meditations upon his favored weapon border on the obsessive, but none can deny his consummate skill. The weapon master must select a single type of weapon (such as longsword or shortbow). All of his abilities apply to that weapon type.
Weapon Guard (Ex): At 2nd level, a weapon master gains a +1 bonus to CMD against disarm and sunder attempts while wielding his chosen weapon. This bonus also applies on saves against any effect that targets his chosen weapon (for example, grease, heat metal, shatter, warp wood). The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd. This ability replaces bravery.
Weapon Training (Ex): At 3rd level, a weapon master gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with his chosen weapon. The bonus improves by +1 for every four levels beyond 3rd. This ability replaces armor training 1, 2, 3, and 4.
Unless you are a telekineticist it would be irrelevant. It isn't an actual weapon, it is an infusion. As a telekineticist an argument might be made as you are adding it to a weapon, but the ability states the infusion does what it says regardless of it's shape etc. So that is even shakey ground.
It would have to say something to the effect of "treat the ability as a scimitar" (as the spell Flame Blade does) or specifically state it was a valid choice for weapon feats to be applied to/built on. There was an older FAQ or thread about what spells/effects count as weapons and what can be applied to them when used. Basically unless it states it is used as X weapon, it doesn't count as one.

Skylancer4 |

Right and you can just choose (Kinetic Blast) As your weapon.. as feats such as Weapon Focus and the like apply to it.
No, because Kinetic Blade isn't actually a weapon mechanically. It is an infusion that has similarities to a weapon. There are abilities out there that actually state "treat this as a weapon" or "this is a valid option for Weapon Focus", there is no such wording on this ability. Maybe it was accidentally not included, but equally possible was it wasn't meant to be.
The rules don't say it can be, so it isn't an option essentially.

Skylancer4 |

Kinetic Blast is not an infusion.. Kinetic Blade is. And Kinetic Blast can be chosen for Weapon Focus... as well as Deadly Aim (If not Touch) , Bullseye Shot, Improved Critical... etc.
I should have put Kinetic Blade (not blast), edited.
Feats, not class abilities as written. So the fighter still would be unable to choose it for their ability. It may be a fine line, but it is a line.

lemeres |

Kinetic Blast is not an infusion.. Kinetic Blade is. And Kinetic Blast can be chosen for Weapon Focus... as well as Deadly Aim (If not Touch) , Bullseye Shot, Improved Critical... etc.
I think skylancer meant wild talents (it is hard to keep up which goes under which label... particularly since the term wild talents get used so little).
Kinetic blasts are spell like abilities since they are wild talents. So the question comes up- could someone with a scorching ray do it? That ends up as the main question.

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A Kinetic Blast is for all intensive purposes a weapon, all effects that effect (Kinetic Blast) would apply to applicable circumstances were the form or substance infusion attached are appropriate. Weapon master does not care what the weapon is.. as long as it is a weapon and specifically only applies top that weapon.
A Kinetic Blast is no Talent, it as a Class ability that is your elements form of Weapon. Talents affect the Kinetic Blast. Things such as cover, Miss Chance and the like affect Kinetic Blast, much like a weapon. It is only different in how it is listed as being different.

lemeres |

A Kinetic Blast is no Talent, it as a Class ability that is your elements form of Weapon. Talents affect the Kinetic Blast. Things such as cover, Miss Chance and the like affect Kinetic Blast, much like a weapon. It is only different in how it is listed as being different.
Kinetic Blast (Sp)
At 1st level, a kineticist gains a kinetic blast wild talent of her choice.
Nope, the class feature just gives you a free wild talent of the blast type.
The rest of the discussion is still a valid argument (since yes, they are treated as weapon for feats like weapon focus, and the raises the questin of how far it gets treated as a weapon), but I just want us to be clear that they are wild talents, and as such follows the listed rules. Here are the relevant bits (removing the ones about descriptors, caster level, and when you get wild talents)
Wild Talents
A kineticist can use wild talents—magical abilities similar to spells but drawn from the kineticist's innate psychic talent and usable at will. Wild talents are typically spell-like abilities (though some are supernatural abilities), and take a standard action to use unless otherwise noted.

Tels |

Nearly anything that applies to the Kinetic Blast, would also apply to Kinetic Blade.
If you choose Weapon Focus (Kinetic Blast) or Improved Critical (Kinetic Blast) the effects of both feats apply to the Kinetic Blade. So the Weapon Master could choose Kinetic Blast as his weapon, which would allow it to apply to Kinetic Blade.
The problem with this, of course, is the fact that you're a multiclassed Kineticist because, as far as I know, VMC can't choose archetype abilities.
Is a 3 level dip into Weapon Master really worth Weapon Training?

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If it wasnt for the fact Im sure NJolly wont take the Build because it includes a 3rd party ( Dreamscarred Press ) Class I would post a few builds that do wonderfully with Kineticist Multiclassing. A character who has those 2 levels in Fighter likely plays much differently than one without.
I'd happily give my current character as an example If you would like.

Skylancer4 |

Nearly anything that applies to the Kinetic Blast, would also apply to Kinetic Blade.
If you choose Weapon Focus (Kinetic Blast) or Improved Critical (Kinetic Blast) the effects of both feats apply to the Kinetic Blade. So the Weapon Master could choose Kinetic Blast as his weapon, which would allow it to apply to Kinetic Blade.
The problem with this, of course, is the fact that you're a multiclassed Kineticist because, as far as I know, VMC can't choose archetype abilities.
Is a 3 level dip into Weapon Master really worth Weapon Training?
That isn't true, at least by the rules we have. It is a spell like ability granted by class ability. It has explicit rules stating it can take feats which are typically reserved for a type of weapon.
That doesn't give you carte Blanche to say it is a valid choice for an archtypes weapon choice. When used with certain abilities, it having similarities to weapons, is not the same as being so. It says you can choose feats, that is the only thing you are 100% legitimately able to do by the rules, anything is house ruling it at this point.

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Nearly anything that applies to the Kinetic Blast, would also apply to Kinetic Blade.
If you choose Weapon Focus (Kinetic Blast) or Improved Critical (Kinetic Blast) the effects of both feats apply to the Kinetic Blade. So the Weapon Master could choose Kinetic Blast as his weapon, which would allow it to apply to Kinetic Blade.
The problem with this, of course, is the fact that you're a multiclassed Kineticist because, as far as I know, VMC can't choose archetype abilities.
Is a 3 level dip into Weapon Master really worth Weapon Training?
Did the math. Not really.
Used Kinecticist and Fighter combination of Levels.
- DEX/CON 18 with Elemental Overload bonus to DEX/CON.
- 7 to 0, 4 to 3, and 3 to 4 for Weapon Specialization.
- Both physical blast and elemental blast of Fire (with Fire's Fury for more damage via Elemental Overload).
- Deadly Aim is included in all 3.
- With the Fighter combos, I added Gloves of Dueling to increase the bonus from +1 to +3.
Damage with basic blasts.
K-7:
Energy: +11 4d6 + 6 + (CON/2)
Physical: +11 4d6 + 12 + CON
K-4/F-3:
Energy: +15 2d6 + 6 + (CON/2)
Physical: +13 2d6 + 11 + CON
K-3/F-4:
Energy: +15 2d6 + 8 + (CON/2)
Physical +13 2d6 + 13 + CON
Avg Damage with DEX/CON 18(+2 for Level 6 Kinecticst Elemental Overload):
K-7: E-22 P-31
K-4/F-3: E-15 P-22
K-3/F-4: E-17 P-24

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While we're talking about VMCs, I'd like to ask Jolly to reconsider this:
I'd rather avoid doing VMCs included in this for the same reason that I avoid using multiclassing on my other guides (or else all the gunslinger builds would be GS(or BA)5/Another Class X.
The difference between traditional and variant multiclassing is that the former requires you to give up progression in your primary class, while the latter does not. While thematically it involves branching out into a second class, VMC really is not unlike taking a long feat chain. And right now, the kineticist really could use more things to do with feats.

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Tels wrote:Nearly anything that applies to the Kinetic Blast, would also apply to Kinetic Blade.
If you choose Weapon Focus (Kinetic Blast) or Improved Critical (Kinetic Blast) the effects of both feats apply to the Kinetic Blade. So the Weapon Master could choose Kinetic Blast as his weapon, which would allow it to apply to Kinetic Blade.
The problem with this, of course, is the fact that you're a multiclassed Kineticist because, as far as I know, VMC can't choose archetype abilities.
Is a 3 level dip into Weapon Master really worth Weapon Training?
Did the math. Not really.
Used Kinecticist and Fighter combination of Levels.
- DEX/CON 18 with Elemental Overload bonus to DEX/CON.
- 7 to 0, 4 to 3, and 3 to 4 for Weapon Specialization.
- Both physical blast and elemental blast of Fire (with Fire's Fury for more damage via Elemental Overload).
- Deadly Aim is included in all 3.
- With the Fighter combos, I added Gloves of Dueling to increase the bonus from +1 to +3.Damage with basic blasts.
K-7:
Energy: +11 4d6 + 6 + (CON/2)
Physical: +11 4d6 + 12 + CONK-4/F-3:
Energy: +15 2d6 + 6 + (CON/2)
Physical: +13 2d6 + 11 + CONK-3/F-4:
Energy: +15 2d6 + 8 + (CON/2)
Physical +13 2d6 + 13 + CONAvg Damage with DEX/CON 18(+2 for Level 6 Kinecticst Elemental Overload):
K-7: E-22 P-31
K-4/F-3: E-15 P-22
K-3/F-4: E-17 P-24
The only issue with there is is you picked a level where they are
1) Down a whole 2 dice
2) Discount whatever feats the Fighter picked up
3) Forget To hit and Bab make a play in usage like Kinetic Blade.
4) Overflowing Rod makes up for this later
The level 7 Kineticist is getting the stat bumps but the multiclass is not it SEEMS better yeah when you choose a major changing point in the class, choose a little earlier or a little later like 10-11th level it doesnt look that skewed in the full classes favor.

shroudb |
At it's very basic level 3 lvl of kineticist gives you:
1 att+1 damage from overflow
2.25 bab
(1d6+1)*1.5 damage from blast
Higher level talents+3 talents
Fighter gives you
3 att 3 damage from weapon master
2 feats
3 bab
So: 3.25 attack+7.5 damage vs 6 attack + 3 damage
So +2.75 attack - 4.5 damage for the fighter.
Myself I value the extra talents+ higher level talents, quite higher than the little for gain you'll get from the slight for gain

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Don't forget you are assuming the 3 levels of fighter gives you a +3/+3 to hit/damage, it doesn't
It gives you +1/+1 and the option to spend 15000 gp on gloves to get +2/+2. You should consider that the 15000 could be spent on other gear.
That is 15k well spent but still an additional cost to figure in on the fighter side.

Ravingdork |

Imbicatus wrote:I will admit that's a nice combo, but that more speaks of the value of ride the blast than extreme value. To me, in and of itself extreme range isn't terrible, it's probably high orange, but that just means that ride the blast is that much better, and yeah I freaking LOVE air's reach, it's so good!You do have a point about the bonuses to hit, and when you have a claw/claw/bite or better, it is basically a slower scaling sneak attack that is easier to pull off and is not as resisted.
I'll grant that it's better than I initially thought with that, but it's still not great. Especially when the best race for natural attacks has a -2 to CON.
Moving on, Extreme Range is Green for utility more than offense because of how it stacks with ride the blast. If you are air, extreme range + air's reach + snake + ride the blast lets you be the Flash, immediately going where ever you want on the battlefield. Hell, you could be in the inner sanctum of a dungeon and immediately bug out to the entrance, assuming there aren't any closed doors blocking your way.
Found this while searching for answers on "ride the blast" flying, so I apologize if it's been brought up already: Just wanted to point out that you can't stack the Snake and Extreme Reach infusions as they are both form infusions. You can only ever have two infusions at a time, one form and one substance.

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I dunno, I've not had a problem with selecting feats so far.
I haven't had a problem selecting feats, either. I have had a problem finding interesting feats. I'm looking at Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Dodge, Toughness, Improved Initiative, Improved Critical, probably an Extra Wild Talent Feat or two in mid-levels. They're all fine, mechanically, but none of them is really interesting in the way that Ki Throw is interesting for my monk (who can then adjust enemy positioning) or Divine Interference is interesting for my druid (who can then prevent crits or killing blows).
A sorcerer's bloodline, sneak attack, oracular powers, etc. could add a somewhat more interesting option than just extra plusses. It would be good to know which combinations are also mechanically sound.

Faelyn |

Just to clarify... if a racial FCB affects a class ability, you can only begin taking that racial FCB after you have obtained said ability?
For a specific example, the halfling kineticist FCB:
Kineticist (Occult Adventures pg. 85 (Amazon)): Increase the capacity of the kineticist’s internal buffer by 1/6 point.
So I cannot select that until 7th level, correct?

Tels |

Tels wrote:I dunno, I've not had a problem with selecting feats so far.I haven't had a problem selecting feats, either. I have had a problem finding interesting feats. I'm looking at Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Dodge, Toughness, Improved Initiative, Improved Critical, probably an Extra Wild Talent Feat or two in mid-levels. They're all fine, mechanically, but none of them is really interesting in the way that Ki Throw is interesting for my monk (who can then adjust enemy positioning) or Divine Interference is interesting for my druid (who can then prevent crits or killing blows).
A sorcerer's bloodline, sneak attack, oracular powers, etc. could add a somewhat more interesting option than just extra plusses. It would be good to know which combinations are also mechanically sound.
How many interesting feats came out with a the book a class was released in though? Maybe 1 or 2 for class, if that? The class is still new, it needs time for the interesting (and borderline broken) stuff to get released in the soft-cover book line.

Dekalinder |

Just to clarify... if a racial FCB affects a class ability, you can only begin taking that racial FCB after you have obtained said ability?
For a specific example, the halfling kineticist FCB:
Quote:Kineticist (Occult Adventures pg. 85 (Amazon)): Increase the capacity of the kineticist’s internal buffer by 1/6 point.So I cannot select that until 7th level, correct?
Yes.

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I would say that if VMC is allowed in your campaign and you play a Telekineticist there is no reason NOT to VMC into rogue... Invisibility at will and SA is a phenomenal boost to damage. Once you pick up PBS and Precise Shot there aren't many other feats you need, other than Toughness perhaps.
One spell that every seasoned Telekineticist should consider having via scroll is Aram Zey's Focus, AKA Rogue-in-a-Can. Trapfinding without having to dip or VMC. Use Magic Device is a class skill, so using it against the occasional magical trap shouldn't be too big of an issue. It's even better if you bothered to take Skilled Keneticist.