ACG Errata

[Cyrus007]

Hi,

At long last, they made the dreaded changes. My 11th level Brawler was getting, if I was lucky, 300 to 400 points of damage on a charge. Goodbye sweet and ungodly damage...I shall miss you :) However, I agree with the changes.

Have fun everyone.

[lemeres]

...you were using a manufactured weapon with pummeling style, weren't you...

Eh, I just suppose this is like the the colorful stripes on bees- a sign that they are dangerous and you should never go near them.

If it is a pummeling style thing, then no, it is not dreaded. Not in the least.

[Darigaaz the Igniter]

They made the pummeling style clarification months ago

[Anzyr]

I for one am mostly happy with what I consider to generally be buffs to the Shaman, though I am disappointed the Human/Half-Elf/Half-Orc Favored Class Bonuses wasn't clarified. Kind of sad for the people who wanted Spiritual Ally to make the spell list, but honestly this was a never big deal for me. Summon Nature Ally I-IX is a big deal and Remove Disease is helpful. The Chant nerf is minor and in line with Witch and while the addition of mind-affecting is a big blow to Evil Eye, it's still useful.

Most importantly Arcane Enlightenment went untouched.

[Cyrus007]

Hi,

No, I was using only unarmed attack..my bare knuckles. I knew about the changes to Pummeling Style for manufactured weapons.

[Benchak the Nightstalker]

Anzyr wrote:

I for one am mostly happy with what I consider to generally be buffs to the Shaman, though I am disappointed the Human/Half-Elf/Half-Orc Favored Class Bonuses wasn't clarified. Kind of sad for the people who wanted Spiritual Ally to make the spell list, but honestly this was a never big deal for me. Summon Nature Ally I-IX is a big deal and Remove Disease is helpful. The Chant nerf is minor and in line with Witch and while the addition of mind-affecting is a big blow to Evil Eye, it's still useful.

Most importantly Arcane Enlightenment went untouched.

The addition to Evil Eye was very much expected (and I've been running it as mind-affecting in the interim anyway), so I wasn't too bummed about it.

I'm a bit more disappointed about not getting Spiritual Ally, and about not getting any communal spells on the shaman list.

One thing I noticed--Spirit Talker now only provides the hex for 1 hour, rather than 24 hours. What happens of you use it to take Arcane Enlightenment and prep wizard spells? I can see an argument that once prepped, spells stay prepped, but I can also see using Fluid Magic as a precedent and having any spells prepped through the hex turn to open slots once the hex expires. Might be worth a FAQ.

[Mark Seifter]

Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Anzyr wrote:

I for one am mostly happy with what I consider to generally be buffs to the Shaman, though I am disappointed the Human/Half-Elf/Half-Orc Favored Class Bonuses wasn't clarified. Kind of sad for the people who wanted Spiritual Ally to make the spell list, but honestly this was a never big deal for me. Summon Nature Ally I-IX is a big deal and Remove Disease is helpful. The Chant nerf is minor and in line with Witch and while the addition of mind-affecting is a big blow to Evil Eye, it's still useful.

Most importantly Arcane Enlightenment went untouched.

The addition to Evil Eye was very much expected (and I've been running it as mind-affecting in the interim anyway), so I wasn't too bummed about it.

I'm a bit more disappointed about not getting Spiritual Ally, and about not getting any communal spells on the shaman list.

One thing I noticed--Spirit Talker now only provides the hex for 1 hour, rather than 24 hours. What happens of you use it to take Arcane Enlightenment and prep wizard spells? I can see an argument that once prepped, spells stay prepped, but I can also see using Fluid Magic as a precedent and having any spells prepped through the hex turn to open slots once the hex expires. Might be worth a FAQ.

Yeah I think we had thought it works like fluid magic, and is thus likely worth a FAQ.

[Chess Pwn]

spirited charge doubled the damage and getting a crit made it x3 so the 400 goes to 133 damage. horn of cryosphinx adds double str on all your attack rolls. there are 5 attacks with a lv11 brawler pre haste. so 133 / 5 = ~26.5 per attack, 1d10(5.5) + X. X = 21 weapon specialization +2, amulet +3, puts us at 16 left. cut in half is 8 str mod with is a str of 26, if he's a mutagenic mauler there's a +4 str, belt +4, +2 levels and you only need a base str of 16 to pull this off. now this might not be exactly what he did, but here's one way to pull of those kind of numbers

[TGMaxMaxer]

So, Mark. Why the Hit to Slashing Grace no TWF, no shield even? The iconic posted did that... I thought at least.

And the one to Arcane Deed that says you still have a Swashbuckler Level of 0?

And... removing Parry/Riposte from pretty much all the archetypes, and Amateur Swashbuckler?

[Anzyr]

Mark Seifter wrote:

Benchak the Nightstalker wrote:

Anzyr wrote:

I for one am mostly happy with what I consider to generally be buffs to the Shaman, though I am disappointed the Human/Half-Elf/Half-Orc Favored Class Bonuses wasn't clarified. Kind of sad for the people who wanted Spiritual Ally to make the spell list, but honestly this was a never big deal for me. Summon Nature Ally I-IX is a big deal and Remove Disease is helpful. The Chant nerf is minor and in line with Witch and while the addition of mind-affecting is a big blow to Evil Eye, it's still useful.

Most importantly Arcane Enlightenment went untouched.

The addition to Evil Eye was very much expected (and I've been running it as mind-affecting in the interim anyway), so I wasn't too bummed about it.

I'm a bit more disappointed about not getting Spiritual Ally, and about not getting any communal spells on the shaman list.

One thing I noticed--Spirit Talker now only provides the hex for 1 hour, rather than 24 hours. What happens of you use it to take Arcane Enlightenment and prep wizard spells? I can see an argument that once prepped, spells stay prepped, but I can also see using Fluid Magic as a precedent and having any spells prepped through the hex turn to open slots once the hex expires. Might be worth a FAQ.

Yeah I think we had thought it works like fluid magic, and is thus likely worth a FAQ.

Any chance on there being anything on the Shaman Human/Half-Elf/Half-Orc FCB vs. Spells Known FAQ. Maybe even just a "Yes, the Cleric spells are also added to your spell list."? Still massive congratulations on getting all this out pre-Gencon. The clarifications (particularly the Summon Nature's Ally I-IX) are much appreciated.

[Johnny_Devo]

Is there any reason you haven't changed eldritch scion?

Having to guzzle eldritch points to make use of your class features is bad enough, but there's even quite a bit of confusion in this entry:

Quote:

At 7th level, an eldritch scion gains the bonus spell from his bloodrager bloodline that is normally gained at 10th level. He gains the next three bonus spells from his bloodline at 9th, 11th, and 13th levels, respectively.

This means the scion gains a spell at level 7, 9, 11, and 13.

However, bloodragers gain spells at levels 7, 10, 13, and 15.

The entry states "At level 7, gains the spell that is normally gained at 10th, then the next 3 spells at these levels"

So... How does that work? The wording is clearly not what is intended, but I'm a little confused that this wasn't clarified in errata.

EDIT: Additionally, by RAW the eldritch scion gains "spell recall" at level 11, yet by the wording it is useless to him. Anything on that?

[Casual Viking]

TGMaxMaxer wrote:

So, Mark. Why the Hit to Slashing Grace no TWF, no shield even? The iconic posted did that... I thought at least.

And the one to Arcane Deed that says you still have a Swashbuckler Level of 0?

And... removing Parry/Riposte from pretty much all the archetypes, and Amateur Swashbuckler?

I suppose it's because once you have Panache, Opportune Parry/Riposte and Precise Strike, there's nothing of value left in the actual class.

[Cyrus007]

Chess Pwn wrote:

spirited charge doubled the damage and getting a crit made it x3 so the 400 goes to 133 damage. horn of cryosphinx adds double str on all your attack rolls. there are 5 attacks with a lv11 brawler pre haste. so 133 / 5 = ~26.5 per attack, 1d10(5.5) + X. X = 21 weapon specialization +2, amulet +3, puts us at 16 left. cut in half is 8 str mod with is a str of 26, if he's a mutagenic mauler there's a +4 str, belt +4, +2 levels and you only need a base str of 16 to pull this off. now this might not be exactly what he did, but here's one way to pull of those kind of numbers

Well, here goes: First, I misspoke: 10th lvl Brawler, 1st lvl. Barbarian. The numbers went like this:

Base: 1d10 damage
+6 Str.
+1 Trait
+8 Power Attack
+2 Rage
+1 Amulet of Mighty Fist
+2 Brawler Enchant
+2 Reckless Rage
+8 Horn of the Cryospinx
=30 static damage
Six attacks with boots of speed. Old Pummeling Style is that if you just confirmed one critical, all your attacks were critical hits. Therefore, 30 x 10 (figure one miss)=300 damage + 55 damage. If I hit with 6th hit, then about 390..if I did not have any other buffs on like from a bard.

[Chess Pwn]

So can someone explain if the Feral Hunter archetype’s Feral Focus is worse than the normal hunters? Namely that the normal hunter can apply it's dead companions thing always and then activate another as a swift. It looks like the feral one has one permanent, but doesn't say anything about the swift action one.

[Rynjin]

Where can I get this Errata?

[Deighton Thrane]

It's on the ACG page.

[Protoman]

Link is at the ACG product page.

[TGMaxMaxer]

The reason I ask for the Arcane Deed thing, is that based on that errata, the following deeds no longer work.

Most of Them, 12:

Kip-Up (Ex): At 3rd level, while the swashbuckler has at least 1 panache point, she can kip-up from prone as a move action without provoking an attack of opportunity. She can kip-up as a swift action instead by spending 1 panache point.

Menacing Swordplay (Ex): At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, when a swashbuckler hits an opponent with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon, she can choose to use Intimidate to demoralize that opponent as a swift action instead of a standard action.

Precise Strike (Ex): At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt. To use this deed, a swashbuckler cannot attack with a weapon in her other hand or use a shield other than a buckler. She can even use this ability with thrown light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, so long as the target is within 30 feet of her. Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to the additional damage granted by precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from the additional damage of a precise strike. This additional damage is precision damage, and isn't multiplied on a critical hit.

Swashbuckler Initiative (Ex): At 3rd level, while the swashbuckler has at least 1 panache point, she gains a +2 bonus on initiative checks. In addition, if she has the Quick Draw feat, her hands are free and unrestrained, and she has any single light or one-handed piercing melee weapon that isn't hidden, she can draw that weapon as part of the initiative check.

Swashbuckler's Grace (Ex): At 7th level, while the swashbuckler has at least 1 panache point, she takes no penalty for moving at full speed when she uses Acrobatics to attempt to move through a threatened area or an enemy's space.

Superior Feint (Ex): At 7th level, a swashbuckler with at least 1 panache point can, as a standard action, purposefully miss a creature she could make a melee attack against with a wielded light or one-handed piercing weapon. When she does, the creature is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC until the start of the swashbuckler's next turn.

Evasive (Ex): At 11th level, while a swashbuckler has at least 1 panache point, she gains the benefits of the evasion, uncanny dodge, and improved uncanny dodge rogue class features. She uses her swashbuckler level as her rogue level for improved uncanny dodge.

Subtle Blade (Ex): At 11th level, while a swashbuckler has at least 1 panache point, she is immune to disarm, steal, and sunder combat maneuvers made against a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon she is wielding.

Perfect Thrust (Ex): At 15th level, while the swashbuckler has at least 1 panache point, she can as a full-round action make a perfect thrust, pooling all of her attack potential into a single melee attack made with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon. When she does, she makes the attack against the target's touch AC, and ignores all damage reduction.

Swashbuckler's Edge (Ex): At 15th level, while the swashbuckler has at least 1 panache point, she can take 10 on any Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist, Fly, Ride, or Swim check, even while distracted or in immediate danger. She can use this ability in conjunction with the derring-do deed.

Deadly Stab (Ex): At 19th level, when the swashbuckler confirms a critical hit with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon, in addition to the normal damage, she can spend 1 panache point to inflict a deadly stab. The target must succeed at a Fortitude saving throw or die. The DC of this save is 10 + 1/2 the swashbuckler's level + the swashbuckler's Dexterity modifier. This is a death attack. Performing this deed does not grant the swashbuckler a panache point.

Stunning Stab (Ex): At 19th level, when a swashbuckler hits a creature with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon, she can spend 2 panache points to stun the creature for 1 round. The creature must succeed at a Fortitude saving throw (DC = 10 + 1/2 the swashbuckler's level + the swashbuckler's Dexterity modifier) or be stunned for 1 round. Creatures that are immune to critical hits are also immune to this effect.

And these do:

5 Left:

Dodging Panache (Ex): At 1st level, when an opponent attempts a melee attack against the swashbuckler, the swashbuckler can as an immediate action spend 1 panache point to move 5 feet; doing so grants the swashbuckler a dodge bonus to AC equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 0) against the triggering attack. This movement doesn't negate the attack, which is still resolved as if the swashbuckler had not moved from the original square. This movement is not a 5-foot step; it provokes attacks of opportunity from creatures other than the one who triggered this deed. The swashbuckler can only perform this deed while wearing light or no armor, and while carrying no heavier than a light load.

Targeted Strike (Ex): At 7th level, as a full-round action the swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to make an attack with a single light or one-handed piercing melee weapon that cripples part of a foe's body. The swashbuckler chooses a part of the body to target. If the attack succeeds, in addition to the attack's normal damage, the target suffers one of the following effects based on the part of the body targeted. If a creature doesn't have one of the listed body locations, that body part cannot be targeted. Creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are also immune to targeted strikes. Items or abilities that protect a creature from critical hits also protect a creature from targeted strikes.
•Arms: The target takes no damage from the attack, but it drops one carried item of the swashbuckler's choice, even if the item is wielded with two hands. Items held in a locked gauntlet cannot be chosen.
•Head: The target is confused for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting effect.
•Legs: The target is knocked prone. Creatures with four or more legs or that are immune to trip attacks are immune to this effect.
•Torso or Wings: The target is staggered for 1 round.

Bleeding Wound (Ex): At 11th level, when the swashbuckler hits a living creature with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon attack, as a free action she can spend 1 panache point to have that attack deal additional bleed damage. The amount of bleed damage dealt is equal to the swashbuckler's Dexterity modifier (minimum 1). Alternatively, the swashbuckler can spend 2 panache points to deal 1 point of Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution bleed damage instead (swashbuckler's choice). Creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are also immune to these types of bleed damage.

Dizzying Defense (Ex): At 15th level, while wielding a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon in one hand, the swashbuckler can spend 1 panache point to take the fighting defensively action as a swift action instead of a standard action. When fighting defensively in this manner, the dodge bonus to AC gained from that action increases to +4, and the penalty to attack rolls is reduced to –2.

Cheat Death (Ex): At 19th level, whenever the swashbuckler is reduced to 0 hit points or fewer, she can spend all of her remaining panache to instead be reduced to 1 hit point. She must have at least 1 panache point to spend. Effects that kill the swashbuckler outright without dealing hit point damage are not affected by this ability.

Technically, the 2 19th level ones still work, but since they are Fort Saves based on 10+ 1/2 level (0) + Dex mod, they are only useful on a natural 1, so taking something that costs 1-2 points with a 5% success rate is a waste of ink. And, you don't get an arcana after 18, so that means a feat to do it at all.

What exactly were they afraid of? I mean, with this restriction, I might... MIGHT... spend an arcana on Targeted Strike. The rest of them I can get the same effects from a feat, (or item) and certainly are not worth 2 Arcana. Printing bad options happens, I know, but on this scale it seems that that text space could have been used for something that will actually see use instead.

[Chess Pwn]

TGMaxMaxer wrote:

The reason I ask for the Arcane Deed thing, is that based on that errata, the following deeds no longer work.

** spoiler omitted **...

So I feel the deal was that people thought that the daring cavalier magus with this magus arcana made for better and more interesting/useful swashbucklers than the actual swashbuckler. So they took tons of swashbuckler things away from the people who get swashbuckler things so the swashbuckler is unique and has a reason to be picked.

[andreww]

Wow battle cry gets turned from a great choice as a feat to a piece of garbage. Good going.

Arcanist get the shaft too.

[Rynjin]

So from what I can tell they just went through and nerfed just about everything from the book?

[Calth]

Mostly the things that needed nerfing plus a few that probably didn't need it. (Steadfast Personality and Verminous Hunter for example). Some of the nerfs probably went to far. Divine Protection went from top 3 feats of all time to worthless. But most of the nerfs should have been expected for the most part. (There was no way precise strike magi were ever intended.)

[Rynjin]

Quite a few that didn't need it. Daring Champion, Merciless Butchery (it was already nearly impossible to proc, why nerf the f~*@ing thing?), Sacred Fist Warpriests, Verminous Hunters, and more.

[Covent]

Rynjin wrote:

So from what I can tell they just went through and nerfed just about everything from the book?

Yep, I am picking through the errata right now and...

I r disappoint.

A lot of the changes feel very much like overreactions to me.

The Primal Hunter change makes me sad as it is mostly useless now...

mini-rant:

This just seals it for me. I will no longer buy Paizo products without very thorough read and investigation, and honestly I have no intention of buying anything at this point. Quality of design has in my opinion trended down for a while, with the exception of the kinetisist.

Still not buying Occult adventures though.

Remember people, this is a business for Paizo, if you don't like what they write use the PRD and vote with your wallet.

[Calth]

2 of the 3 archetypes that did classes better than themselves were nerfed (sacred fist and Daring cavelier). Not that surprising. The one that didn't (sacred huntsmaster) is at least relatively close to the Hunter. And I already said that I didnt think vermin hunters should have been nerfed, but again, considering how much better worm was than any other focus I wasn't surprised.

To me it isn't so much what was nerfed but how hard they nerfed it.

[Rynjin]

Calth wrote:

2 of the 3 archetypes that did classes better than themselves were nerfed (sacred fist and Daring cavelier). Not that surprising.

Surprises me. Paizo has never been shy about releasing classes that obsolete other classes before, the only difference this time is they were released in the same book, and are actually better designed than their counterparts.

The Sacred Fist is especially head scratching. The ship has long since sailed, circumvented the globe, and come back to port on "Classes that do unarmed combat better than Monks".

[BadBird]

Well, the Sacred Fist was effectively full-BAB with full CL Divine Favor (as a swift action no less), which they've said before that they don't want to see. Getting swift-action Divine Favor is still arguably better than Monk getting full BAB.

The one that makes me laugh is the Kata Master. Oh no! Don't let the otherwise bland and unimpressive Monk archetype get Parry and Riposte to use with their 3/4BAB!!!

[Covent]

Rynjin wrote:

Calth wrote:

2 of the 3 archetypes that did classes better than themselves were nerfed (sacred fist and Daring cavelier). Not that surprising.

Surprises me. Paizo has never been shy about releasing classes that obsolete other classes before, the only difference this time is they were released in the same book, and are actually better designed than their counterparts.

The Sacred Fist is especially head scratching. The ship has long since sailed, circumvented the globe, and come back to port on "Classes that do unarmed combat better than Monks".

Honestly the tone I am getting from this errata is generally "NOPE! No nice things for you."

Sorry, just completely dumbfounded by things like sacred fist losing psuedo full BAB.

Divine protection I could have lived with them making it one save, but once a day and as an immediate... Wow.

On the positive side this is making me work on my heart breaker!

[Melkiador]

Technically the sacred fist never had pseudo full BAB, because you were never told to use your warpriest level as your monk level.

[Silver Surfer]

When will the changes be uploaded to www.d20pfsrd.com ?

[Silver Surfer]

LOL.... A farce

Lots of nerfing to those that didnt require it and the most glaring OP (the Shaman) escapes unscathed!!! Classic...

At least Divine Protection got the chop!

[Melkiador]

I really did expect the lore hex arcane enlightenment to get the nerf bat.

[Rub-Eta]

Hey Silver Surfer, what do you think about the Ecclesitheurge errate? Still hate it? (Don't know if it will change your mind, just wondering)

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

TGMaxMaxer wrote:

The reason I ask for the Arcane Deed thing, is that based on that errata, the following deeds no longer work.

** spoiler omitted **...

I think you're misreading the errata.

Quote:

Even if he gains a panache pool through another means, the magus is not considered to have at least 1 point in his panache pool for the purpose of deeds selected with arcane deed, and his effective swashbuckler level for determining such a deed’s effect is 0.

This is convoluted wording, but it seems to me that this indicates that taking a feat such as amateur swashbuckler or levels in swashbuckler don't let you use the panache points or the swashbuckler levels from that class level or feat for the deeds you get from arcane deed. Your magus levels and arcane pool still count for that purpose.

Maybe I'm wrong and they wanted to make flamboyant arcana and arcane deed another one of the 90% of utterly useless crap in the magus arcana options. I don't think that's the case though.

[memorax]

I was expecting 2-3 at most 5 pages. but nine pages. Man i'm glad I disallow the book from my tables. Even SR5 had less errata. Not to mention agreeing with what needed nerfing and what did not imo.

[Just a Guess]

Really, why the animal soul change? I like the new version, too but couldn't we have had both as separate feats?

[Snowblind]

Something I just noticed

Errata wrote:

In Hex Vulnerability, in the first sentence of

the description, add “harmful” before “hexes”.

Sad face for witches/shamans. Healing Hex goes back to being borderline worthless.

[lemeres]

Well, the change to the arcane deed was rather expected.

With precise strike's extra damage, you could basically just throw out power attack/piranha strike and pretend your class was near full BAB (as well as a class with 6 levels of spells, decent saves, and amazing nova ability). In fact, precise strike was even better for magus than swashbuckler since it had built in pseudo TWF with spell strike/combat.

I mean...it makes arcane deed into another flavor thing mostly...but still, you were lifting the best and most distinctive class features of another class at level 3, and using them better than that class. So largely? This was likely meant to be a nothing option, and then they nerfed it when they realize the monster they made.

Lets see...pummeling charge was somewhat nerfed since it no longer does a pummeling strike at the end of the charge, but instead it does your regular full attack/flurry.

That means no insane crits at the end of charges, and you are not simply BLASTING through DR with the charge. But considering the fact that you are getting a pseudo pounce (and you don't need something like dimensional dervish using up ki points)...fair trade. Still a general must have, overall.

Also, it means enemies will run scared from you since you can still do pummeling style as a normal full attack in all its DR blasting and crit fishing glory. And when they run, you can just get a pummeling charge on them instead.

[Snowblind]

lemeres wrote:

Lets see...pummeling charge was somewhat nerfed since it no longer does a pummeling strike at the end of the charge, but instead it does your regular full attack/flurry.

That means no insane crits at the end of charges, and you are not simply BLASTING through DR with the charge. But considering the fact that you are getting a pseudo pounce (and you don't need something like dimensional dervish using up ki points)...fair trade. Still a general must have, overall.

Pummeling charge still gives you the benefits of pummeling style at the end of the charge.

Errata wrote:

Page 154—Change the Pummeling Charge feat’s Benefit

section to read “Benefit: You can charge and make a full
attack or flurry of blows at the end of your charge as part
of the charge action. You can use Pummeling Charge
in this way only if all of your attacks qualify for using
Pummeling Style against a single target.” and change the
Normal section to read “Normal: You cannot make a full
attack on a charge.” Change the Pummeling Style feat’s
introduction to “Your unarmed strikes weave together
in an effortless combo, focusing on the spots you’ve
weakened with the last hit.” Change its Benefit section
to “Benefit: Whenever you use a full-attack action or
flurry of blows to make multiple attacks against a single
opponent with unarmed strikes, total the damage from
all hits before applying damage reduction. This ability
works only with unarmed strikes, no matter what other
abilities you might possess.”

You are making a full attack/flurry at the end of your charge, so Pummeling style still give's you it's benefits.

It's benefits are now just Clustered Shots for punching instead of some monster crit nonsense.

[lemeres]

Snowblind wrote:

You are making a full attack/flurry at the end of your charge, so Pummeling style still give's you it's benefits.

It's benefits are now just Clustered Shots for punching instead of some monster crit nonsense.

Ah, sorry, 3 hours of sleep.

Well then, that makes it evne more of a must have. The main problems with unarmed builds were that they were TWF builds that were even harder to enhance.

Thus, they exemplified TWF problems- severe weakness to DR and a heavy reliance on full attacks for decent damage.

Pummeling style fixed the DR by making it cluster shot, and the pseudo pounce fixed everything else. That does not appear to have changed at all, and those are why the feats are generally optimal for most unarmed builds

The crit thing was just gravy, and it was annoying since it was the main sticking point in the argument about using weapons with the style (other than...you know...the obvious intention in the feat's language, and how an extremely minor bit of phrasing caused a whole fiasco). I was one of the people most ardently arguing against that train of thought since I found that a fighter with kukri could crit like...94% of the time with the twisted version. That crit stuff was very clearly balanced around an 20/x2 crit range. Even with improved critical, it was at least a coin flip.

So yeah...it is not that a loss, overall. And again, you can make your crit fishing into a meta-game threat against your GM, forcing enemies flee since they would not want to full attack you and stick around for a return pummeling strike.

[LoneKnave]

Okay, but now that it doesn't give the crit thing, I feel like using a weapon would be kinda fine?

I mean, the clustered shot effect for weapon users isn't as important, and you'd still be giving up at least 3 feats for pounce (which is a good price, admittedly).

I guess it's nice that unarmed guys get their own thing, but it feels pretty arbitrary.

[ZanThrax]

They did fix a lot of the "this class or archetype doesn't technically actually work" problems. Gave Shamans a few nice things. And spent several pages nerfing the hell out of stuff. Many of which needed it. At least two of which are highly irritating. The surprise nerfing of Slashing Grace (especially when there's no chance that Fencing Grace will ever be hit with the equivalent nerf) just reinforces the impression that Paizo wants all martials to be musclebound goons with the biggest possible weapon, and that any other type of character has to be a caster to be competent.

[Entryhazard]

For some reason the errata is worse than the original product, how is it possible?

[TOZ]

Man, so this is what it's like when Blizzard releases a WoW patch.

[Endoralis]

TOZ wrote:

Man, so this is what it's like when Blizzard releases a WoW patch.

They even buffed Mages... just like a blizzard patch.. how odd.

[Just a Guess]

Entryhazard wrote:

For some reason the errata is worse than the original product, how is it possible?

This errata was done in the same destructive way FAQs are usually made.

[magnuskn]

Endoralis wrote:

TOZ wrote:

Man, so this is what it's like when Blizzard releases a WoW patch.

They even buffed Mages... just like a blizzard patch.. how odd.

Arcanists got nerfed a bit, so I don't know if that is right.

[andreww]

They have reduced Steadfast Personality to something barely better than a trait. Irrepressible does almost the same thing now.

[avr]

I won't be able to open a zipfile until late tomorrow. What's been done to shamans exactly?