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I had a fun conversation. What if we're thinking about the Specializations all wrong. We see them as mini classes. Flavor packets aped from other classes to give abilities from one edge or another. But from a design perspective this means that there aren't that many places for the class to go. It only goes as far as other classes and like it's main theme suffers from a fractured identity. I had explained my theory to a friend that a Vigilante had to become someone else, something else in order to make it's mark on the world. She responded with the question 'Why?' and that's where my suggestion comes in.
My suggestion; What if we scrapped the idea that talents were exclusive to specializations and just make the obviously linking ones need a specialization as a prerequisites, such as arcane training obviously needing Warlock specialization. Now lets stop calling them Specializations. Lets call them by a different name that gives them more meaning and makes the design juices flow. Lets call them 'Origins', as in Origin Story. A very superhero term and thus silly but hear me out. Every vigilante needs a great origin story. Not just because it makes his journey compelling but it grants us a way into the power fantasy and it's often the very foundation of the vigilante's power. Instead of having an Avenger specialization his Origin is one of Vengeance. This makes him more than just series of talents under the same name, it implies that this is WHY he's a vigilante instead of just a fighter with a mask. It implies that something happened that fractured his soul to the point of scrying not being able to tell that it's the same person and inspires broader abilities than just some class skills, and full BAB. Instead of Warlock his origin is one of an Arcane Pact. A promise to a dark or mysterious force to use his borrowed magic for the sake of a cause. Instead of having a Zeolot specialization his origin is one of a Divine Quest. Implying that divine being granted it's power to exact it's will and wield it's might for some particular purpose.
Anyways, what do you think? I know that just breaking many of the talents from being specialization specific is the only mechanical difference I mentioned but I really do think that the difference between using the term 'Origin' over Specialization can be a huge impact in how the class is viewed and, further down the line, designed.
I think this would go a long ways toward making the vigilante's dual identity feel less like "baggage". I really like the idea, also makes the class a lot more flavorful, really encouraging you to give your character a story.
A bit more to add; On how it would broaden specializations past just aping other class features and being a series of half-classes, here's some examples that came to mind along with corresponding superheroes.
Infernal Command (Ghost Rider): Evil Creatures subject to being demoralized by you take damage for the duration of the condition.
Vampiric Lineage (Blade): This is where the Bond of Blood should come in. Probably get some bonuses while Blood frenzied. And access to bloodfrenzied talents.
This sounds interesting, though I dislike the idea of it forcing a character to have a specific origin story when it might not fit the flavour of the character.
I've said similar things. It's a very nice thought. Hope it gets some traction.
This sounds interesting, though I dislike the idea of it forcing a character to have a specific origin story when it might not fit the flavour of the character.
Origin stories don't have to be very specific. Origins such as Vengeance, Honor, Duty, Loyalty, Responsibility, Fate, Rebellion and Justice are very broad and each one applies to various superheroes and villains. Concepts like Lineage, Pact, Quest, Burden, Atonement are only as specific as Sorcerer bloodlines. But its also why I would detach most of the talents from Origins and just let Origins speak for themselves much like Bloodlines or Cavalier Orders. But in the end they'd be just mechanics flavored towards an origin story as opposed to something that forces you to never file off the serial numbers. But it does evoke flavor in design and make it easier to encourage building characters as well as justifying the dual identity schtick by having a part of the class insinuating that there is a point that made this a fractured character and was gifted or created another person that could do things beyond their capacity.
Then there are things like 'Alchemical Accident' where there aren't all that many ways you can reflavor it. I guess as a Aberration Lineage, Arcane Mutation or Toxic Waste Survivor but again file off the serial number and it still works. But it could just be "Mutation" and cover all those concepts by being broad. Another reason why I make the suggestion for Origins is that given how broad or narrow they could be, broad ones can be covered by the hardcovers, narrow ones could be handled by the Player Companion books and there's lots of room left over for third party creations that can be innovative and broad or something that evokes flavor from a particular setting, basically opening up design space.
I've said similar things. It's a very nice thought. Hope it gets some traction.
Mind linking me to what you said. I'd like to compare notes.
I really like the origin idea.
I really like the origin idea.
I'm definitely going to verbally (textually?) push the idea. I think that if this is THE superhero/villain class that secret origins is a much bigger factor than fractured identity, and Specializations implies that the character just decided to gain those abilities giving it not enough justification to not just be whatever class it's mimicking and just wear a mask. Its much more compelling that the suboptions aren't just weak versions of another class but representations of what started a character to go on the path of a vigilante, and just about every vigilante in fiction has one. Spiderman is the victim of a science accident and also tragedy that led him towards being motivated by tragedy and responsibility. Batman leads a crusade of vengeance against the element of society that took his parents from him. The Phantom takes on his mantle to honor an ancient legacy. Each hero or villain with two identities has some kind of reason behind their cause that motivates them towards good or evil. (or in the case of Swamp Thing I think neutral) And it justifies the other class features.
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I like this idea Malwing, I would certainly like to see the talents spread out through the different specializations, and the 1st level 'Origin' as a scaling class feature. If you're intersted, you can see my thoughts on the class here: LINK
For funsies I looked up 'Origin Story' in Wikipedia. Found a quote that reflected some of what I'm talking about with the concept of Origins.
In The Superhero Reader (nominated for a 2014 Eisner Award for Best Scholarly/Academic Work), edited by Charles Hatfield (Professor at University of Connecticut), Jeet Heer (Toronto-based journalist), and Dr. Kent Worcester (Professor of Political Science at Marymount Manhattan College), the editors write in "Section One: Historical Considerations": "Almost all superheroes have an origin story: a bedrock account of the transformative events that set the protagonist apart from ordinary humanity. If not a prerequisite for the superhero genre, the origin... is certainly a prominent and popular trope that recurs so frequently as to offer clues to the nature of this narrative tradition. To read stories about destroyed worlds, murdered parents, genetic mutations, and mysterious power-giving wizards is to realize the degree to which the superhero genre is about transformation, about identity, about difference, and about the tension between psychological rigidity and a flexible and fluid sense of human nature. ... When surveying the superhero genre, preliminary questions often turn to the problem of roots."
I think there's a lot of truth there that can be adopted for the Vigilante class particularly if fractured identity is going to be the main point of the class.
@Jack Amy: I agree with pretty much all of your thoughts. A lot of the odd level class features seem to be aping Batman more than being broad masked vigilante tropes. Particularly Renown only functions only in some campaigns so if you could choose your social talents it would go a long way into making sure you're not saddled with abilities that are pretty useless due to how the campaign works or the fact that you're constantly with your party. Then there's the building of the social identity. Is he a scientist that makes alchemical gadgets that he later uses to fight/commit crime? Is he a geeky wallflower that is so unassuming that he may as well be invisible? Is he a rich playboy with a silver tongue? Is he a hobo living a life of tragedy and loss? With talents you can better define your social identity and make it less of a liability to actually use in a campaign. Maybe even have Specializations/Origins for them too since duality is a big feature in this class and as I argued above, a big part of superheroes as a whole.
I've said similar things. It's a very nice thought. Hope it gets some traction.Mind linking me to what you said. I'd like to compare notes.
Sure!I've said similar things. It's a very nice thought. Hope it gets some traction.Mind linking me to what you said. I'd like to compare notes.
I would agree but with a caveat; I do like the idea of Specializations/Origins and think it would be better for the class if they functioned more like Sorcerer Bloodlines in that you get abilities over levels. The related Talents can be folded into the Origin, like Warlock and all it's casting, but leave the rest of the talents alone and have the talents be universal.
I'm surprised that this issue hasn't gotten more people talking. We have a class that revolves around identity and evokes the concepts of masked superheroes but we don't have the trope that binds those ideas together, gives them meaning, defines the concept of a superhero and justifies why we're not just playing another class with disguise maxed. Not only that but I firmly believe it would steer design towards a place that more of us are comfortable with.
Origin would be a neat 1st level ability. It might give a bonus class skill, some fluff (like ideals, bonds, flaws), and maybe some special abilities to go with renown.
I'd like to add my support to the Origin idea!
I think there may be some merit in the Origin idea as relates to the Vigilante as a mechanic of some sort.
It's an interesting concept, but won't you need lots of Origins, like the myriad bloodlines? What about just a basic class framework that includes the dual identity, with all the other talents universal, and then you can do a build-a-bearvigilante workshop to cast virtually any hero/anti-hero/villain you can imagine?
It's an interesting concept, but won't you need lots of Origins, like the myriad bloodlines? What about just a basic class framework that includes the dual identity, with all the other talents universal, and then you can do a build-a-bearvigilante workshop to cast virtually any hero/anti-hero/villain you can imagine?
Yes you'd need a lot of origins which is why I say it keeps open design space. A series of very broad origins can start the class off with room to design based on more specific concepts. Otherwise that's the reasoning for loosening up talents so you can build off the foundation that an origin provides.
Different Origins might allow access to different specializations.
Different Origins might allow access to different specializations.
For the most part I'd rather call Specializations Origins instead and make them packages like Bloodlines or Cavalier Orders. Something that doesn't eat up all your class feature space, meaning that talents wouldn't be attached to them, but something that gives you themed abilities and roleplaying incentive.
One thing that came to mind is if some origins had an ability, 'Nemesis'. Something akin to a favored enemy or smite-'blank' that gives you a target for your vigilantism. That or something like Challenge or Inquisitor's Judgement or Bane where you can declare a creature as your "nemesis" for the rest of the day.
I dig this idea. This would also give them freedom to make some really cool other talents like Alchemy or Psionic or stuff.
Yeah, I totally mis-typed what I meant to say.
I meant to say it would be neat if different Origins gave access to cross-origin talents.
Yeah, I totally mis-typed what I meant to say.
I meant to say it would be neat if different Origins gave access to cross-origin talents.
Similar answer: If I had my way the logical extension talents (see Warlock and it's spellcasting) would be baked into the Origin that grants it and talents could go wherever you want. Although mixed origin archetypes would most likely be a thing if that happened (Somebody had a REALLY bad day. Its like Bruce Wayne's parents got shot right before he fell into a portal to hell.)
I think there is room for a physical (avenger/stalker), magical (warlock/shadowdancer), alchemical (Bruce Banner/Mr. Hyde), and psychic vigilante. If they have more room, I can see them working on a divine, and hopefully, tank version.
Sorry, but I absolutely DO NOT WANT a base class that forces me to use an origin story I didn't write myself (with input from my GM). If someone wants to design a prestige class that can only be gained by an orphan whose parents were murdered, I'll grudgingly tolerate it because prestige classes have pulled that sort of stunt since day one, but I don't ever want to see a base class using that same design philosophy.
It's bad enough that most of the character traits in the game come with mandatory origin story dribble that invalidates alternative thematic concepts. ("No, your trait bonus to initiative can't be the result of a distant quickling ancestor. You can only get that bonus if you were bullied as a child. Unless you house-rule it, that's the mandatory origin story for that bonus.")
Also, what happens if I'm a 10th-level rogue who wants to multiclass into vigilante? I already have ten levels worth of origin story. If the vigilante specializations are origins, do I have to pick one that matches events which occurred over the past ten levels? If I want the class features tied to a different origin, do I need to go on a side quest to justify the mandatory back story that never actually happened across ten full levels of play?
Origin stories are cool... when I get to write them from scratch for my own character. I don't want my base class telling me what events occurred during my character's early life or dictating my character's reasons for adventuring.
I think the idea here is to make the origins broad enough that they can apply to many different kinds of stories.
Yeah, they need to be opened up. Origins is an interesting idea, but that's mostly flavor. Making some talents universal (like Case the Joint) and having a caster track and a martial track would be great. Being able to piecemeal together a character build based on the talents available to suit your own "legend" would make a fun character. I'm also really tickled by the possibility of having a mystic theurge base class by choosing both arcane and divine casting talents...
I think the idea here is to make the origins broad enough that they can apply to many different kinds of stories.Sorry, but I absolutely DO NOT WANT a base class that forces me to use an origin story I didn't write myself (with input from my GM). If someone wants to design a prestige class that can only be gained by an orphan whose parents were murdered, I'll grudgingly tolerate it because prestige classes have pulled that sort of stunt since day one, but I don't ever want to see a base class using that same design philosophy.
It's bad enough that most of the character traits in the game come with mandatory origin story dribble that invalidates alternative thematic concepts. ("No, your trait bonus to initiative can't be the result of a distant quickling ancestor. You can only get that bonus if you were bullied as a child. Unless you house-rule it, that's the mandatory origin story for that bonus.")
Also, what happens if I'm a 10th-level rogue who wants to multiclass into vigilante? I already have ten levels worth of origin story. If the vigilante specializations are origins, do I have to pick one that matches events which occurred over the past ten levels? If I want the class features tied to a different origin, do I need to go on a side quest to justify the mandatory back story that never actually happened across ten full levels of play?
Origin stories are cool... when I get to write them from scratch for my own character. I don't want my base class telling me what events occurred during my character's early life or dictating my character's reasons for adventuring.
Exactly. I addressed this above. Categories like Vengeance can apply far and wide and are broad for the base class. Even more specific ones that justify magic powers can be super broad, like "Divine Gift" or "Arcane Gift" to cover any origin story where you would get Divine or Arcane powers (whether they are spells or not) from someone/thing for whatever reason. Or "Alchemical Transformation" could give you a mutagen effect but it could be accidental, on purpose, or whatever. An origin can give a range that says that you are magical in some way leaving the rest for you to define but implies that 'something' happened that is the reason why you're not just a wizard. Classes like Cavalier, Oracle, Sorcerer and Witch have similar implications. Broad implications that imply ideas but basically let you do what you want.
I don't really like the origins idea either, for similar reasons to Epic Meepo. Also I think it constrains the class too much to superhero characters, whereas the class as is also works pretty well for espionage, guerrilla, and cultist characters
I don't really like the origins idea either, for similar reasons to Epic Meepo. Also I think it constrains the class too much to superhero characters, whereas the class as is also works pretty well for espionage, guerrilla, and cultist characters
I think that would be fine if not for that an origin would justify why the dual identity is a central class feature. I feel that otherwise the class is one feat and some skill ranks and not really capable of standing on its own legs. I want to preserve the concept of a dual identity but for it to be extreme enough to be a defining class feature I think it should be implied that the vigilante persona is a reactionary product to set it apart from other classes. Basically I want the class to become someone else as opposed to disguise himself.
Well, an "Origin" wouldn't have to be a thing that explains specializations, necessarily. It should explain the reason for the dual personality or the entire point of actually needing to hide your "adventurer" and personal identities. So a normal rogue might not need an alternate persona, but a "rogue" that got betrayed and framed for stealing a powerful wizard's artifact would need to hide their personal identity from divination. Likewise, a church financial assistant (though I honestly hate Zealot's mechanics; definitely think 2 or zero "specializations" would be great) might find out corruption and need to figure out a way to escape from the church's grasp.
But yeah, this'd mean that the dual personality aspect has to be emphasized as the choice that makes significant difference, not the specializations. But that's hard, since the specializations are so much of the meat of the class.
It should explain the reason for the dual personality or the entire point of actually needing to hide your "adventurer" and personal identities.
Except what if the reason they are hiding their second identity isn't related to their origin at all, it's just they don't want to get caught.
Now I don't want the core Origins to explain why they are hiding their true identity but why they are two identities. If that makes sense. I think it takes away from the class if it were someone that wanted to hide because they stole something. That's just a Rogue that needs to hide. If instead the thief's experience with betrayal turned him off from crime and he was cursed by the wizard's artifact as an awful reminder that crime shouldn't pay, then you have something that would warrent a dual identity, as opposed to a secret identity.
I've said that I wouldn't want Origins to be too specific, but I also said that it leaves room for more specific third party or setting specific ones in the future. Imagine the coolness of a Kasatha one with psychic spells...
Now I don't want the core Origins to explain why they are hiding their true identity but why they are two identities. If that makes sense. I think it takes away from the class if it were someone that wanted to hide because they stole something. That's just a Rogue that needs to hide. If instead the thief's experience with betrayal turned him off from crime and he was cursed by the wizard's artifact as an awful reminder that crime shouldn't pay, then you have something that would warrent a dual identity, as opposed to a secret identity.
Except my vigilante is just a noble who at night is a thief who uses magic to help him steal. So that doesn't fit.
I don't really like the origins idea either, for similar reasons to Epic Meepo. Also I think it constrains the class too much to superhero characters, whereas the class as is also works pretty well for espionage, guerrilla, and cultist charactersOrigin stories also work for mundane espionage, guerrilla, and cultist characters who come out as Shield/MI V agents, Terrorists, and evil cultists with backstories and a central theme.
Every character in the game has an origin story than. I don't necessarily see a need to make it special for the Vigilante.
I don't really like the origins idea either, for similar reasons to Epic Meepo. Also I think it constrains the class too much to superhero characters, whereas the class as is also works pretty well for espionage, guerrilla, and cultist charactersI think that would be fine if not for that an origin would justify why the dual identity is a central class feature. I feel that otherwise the class is one feat and some skill ranks and not really capable of standing on its own legs. I want to preserve the concept of a dual identity but for it to be extreme enough to be a defining class feature I think it should be implied that the vigilante persona is a reactionary product to set it apart from other classes. Basically I want the class to become someone else as opposed to disguise himself.
The dual identity is a set of mechanics to support alter egos. I don't think they need special justification anymore than a high level character needs special justification on they can survive falling a mile and then getting back up and fighting. Beyond that, I don't really want to turn every vigilante into someone with some flavor of multiple personality disorder. My character might want to play a dashing masked hero at night out of a sense of adventure and justice, not because of some traumatic event.
It should DO the alter ego thing better than anyone else, but I am not sure the origins help that. Rather it would be better if the social mode got furthered buffed by talents and further specialization for infiltration and espionage.
I don't really like the origins idea either, for similar reasons to Epic Meepo. Also I think it constrains the class too much to superhero characters, whereas the class as is also works pretty well for espionage, guerrilla, and cultist charactersI think that would be fine if not for that an origin would justify why the dual identity is a central class feature. I feel that otherwise the class is one feat and some skill ranks and not really capable of standing on its own legs. I want to preserve the concept of a dual identity but for it to be extreme enough to be a defining class feature I think it should be implied that the vigilante persona is a reactionary product to set it apart from other classes. Basically I want the class to become someone else as opposed to disguise himself.The dual identity is a set of mechanics to support alter egos. I don't think they need special justification anymore than a high level character needs special justification on they can survive falling a mile and then getting back up and fighting. Beyond that, I don't really want to turn every vigilante into someone with some flavor of multiple personality disorder. My character might want to play a dashing masked hero at night out of a sense of adventure and justice, not because of some traumatic event.
It should DO the alter ego thing better than anyone else, but I am not sure the origins help that. Rather it would be better if the social mode got furthered buffed by talents and further specialization for infiltration and espionage.
I still believe that if the class is simply 'someone with an alter ego' the class doesn't have much reason to exist as anything more than a feat or two. I don't see vigilante as someone with just an alter ego but as someone who has a reason definite drive to have an alter ego especially with vigilantism often stemming from some crime or wrongdoing or another. People are driven to vigilantism, otherwise they're adventurers with bonuses to disguise.
I still believe that if the class is simply 'someone with an alter ego' the class doesn't have much reason to exist as anything more than a feat or two. I don't see vigilante as someone with just an alter ego but as someone who has a reason definite drive to have an alter ego especially with vigilantism often stemming from some crime or wrongdoing or another. People are driven to vigilantism, otherwise they're...
Sooooo.... what about the psychopath vigilantes.
Psychopaths, sociopaths, multiple personality disorders, even just jerks with pointy white hoods, they could all be vigilantes of the dark side.
And now I need to make a Warlock Sith-Lord. Thank you Manwolf.
At your service.
I still believe that if the class is simply 'someone with an alter ego' the class doesn't have much reason to exist as anything more than a feat or two. I don't see vigilante as someone with just an alter ego but as someone who has a reason definite drive to have an alter ego especially with vigilantism often stemming from some crime or wrongdoing or another. People are driven to vigilantism, otherwise they're...Sooooo.... what about the psychopath vigilantes.
Almost all of Batman's villains are poster boys for this. Each one is a victim of, as the Joker says "One bad Day". In fact psychopaths in fiction suffer from twisted reaction to real or perceived wrongdoings all the time. In their minds the world failed them in one way or another and they need to take matters into their own hands, whether it means taking over the world, getting revenge on a group or individual, or wiping the slate clean.
I still believe that if the class is simply 'someone with an alter ego' the class doesn't have much reason to exist as anything more than a feat or two. I don't see vigilante as someone with just an alter ego but as someone who has a reason definite drive to have an alter ego especially with vigilantism often stemming from some crime or wrongdoing or another. People are driven to vigilantism, otherwise they're...
A lot of classes however could be argued to be redundant and could just be done with existing classes/multiclassing. Usually they exist because they are custom designed for their niche.
In the case of Vigilante, it's design from the ground up is based off of having an alter ego. Other characters can have alter egos, but Vigilante should be the easiest to mechanically fulfill that option with the least fuss. If it isn't fulfilling that goal, than the social persona and such needs to be buffed or redesigned...not the flavoring.
Also, I think a serious argument could be made that by fitting origin stories with certain mechanics, you are going to produce a class that is going to close off a lot of options for players on its release. As an example, just looked at the unchained summoner, which enforces specific outsider types on the eidolon. There was limited room for different outsider types, and many of those types have limits on options available to them. A lot of summoner ideas available in the "old" version of the class are difficult or impossible to pull off in the new version. I don't see how something similar won't happen with any sort of origin mechanics, which will have to share room in the book with a long list of talents and similar vigilante options.
...an origin would justify why the dual identity is a central class feature.Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your effort to make the class more substantive. But the mechanics of the class need to justify the existence of its central class feature, not the flavor text. Explaining why my character has the abilities I chose for my character is my job, not my class's job.
To some extent, not exactly. We give a little bit of that up by having classes in the first place and why some people are very wary of redundancies in regards to classes. Above I compare what I'm talking about to other classes that have the same or even more explicit insinuation. The Witch class implies that it learns spells from an outside force by having patrons and casting with INT. Above I explain that Sorcerer and Oracle imply a lack of choice in their powers. Particularly the case of the Sorcerer is more restrictive than Origins as I'm describing as you generally have to choose your bloodline and then weave your backstory to explain how it got there within the context of the theme of the bloodline. Now granted you can always take the easy cop-out bloodline (arcane) so you don't have to explain squat, or just ignore it and it won't really matter in the greater scheme of things but the fact still remains that each bloodline carries it's own package of flavor and the sorcerer is better for it because previously it was just a hot wizard with worse casting. Now it has drastically different flavor than the Wizard while still having the question of 'what' and 'how' to make the range of explaining the bloodlines broad enough to allow for a lot of freedom.
Which is why I think defining Specializations as 'Origins' is healthy not just for evoking flavor but driving design direction. I also think that since the class exists now it's VERY important that it finds it's own voice that's different from the numerous classes that already exists. I think Origins can serve a similar role to Bloodlines, Orders, Patrons, and Domains as defining traits for their abilities and specifically Origins because in terms of masked vigilante's in fiction the origin story is a feature that is almost a mandatory feature that sets them apart and makes them so distinct that they dominate half of an entire medium. To reiterate the quote I posted above
"Almost all superheroes have an origin story: a bedrock account of the transformative events that set the protagonist apart from ordinary humanity. If not a prerequisite for the superhero genre, the origin... is certainly a prominent and popular trope that recurs so frequently as to offer clues to the nature of this narrative tradition. To read stories about destroyed worlds, murdered parents, genetic mutations, and mysterious power-giving wizards is to realize the degree to which the superhero genre is about transformation, about identity, about difference, and about the tension between psychological rigidity and a flexible and fluid sense of human nature. ... When surveying the superhero genre, preliminary questions often turn to the problem of roots."
Mechanically I think this is healthier for design because it had a direction. Right now if we just be a secret identity with a pile of talents and being a build-a-class will always make it inferior to any class it's mimicking and the inevitable 'secret identity' archetypes for other classes will just be touted as better in every way and the vigilante class useless.
Also, I think a serious argument could be made that by fitting origin stories with certain mechanics, you are going to produce a class that is going to close off a lot of options for players on its release. As an example, just looked at the unchained summoner, which enforces specific outsider types on the eidolon. There was limited room for different outsider types, and many of those types have limits on options available to them. A lot of summoner ideas available in the "old" version of the class are difficult or impossible to pull off in the new version. I don't see how something similar won't happen with any sort of origin mechanics, which will have to share room in the book with a long list of talents and similar vigilante options.
One thing is that part of the whole Origins idea is to loosen up the rest of the talents. I don't think the idea as I've been describing it is a binding as you think it is.
But for argument's sake I don't see that as exactly automatic bad thing. I don't really agree with it but I think there are good things that come out of that design too. My disagreement was that it answered the question of 'what' was being summoned by dragging it closer to what other classes already do as opposed to further. Also the categories are not broad enough for what it is. Yes it's summoning an outsider but that has easy lines to make broad strokes which is something I can agree with. Naming specific kinds of outsiders is going overboard and goes way too narrow.
I still see the issue of not all vigilantes even having an origin, mine still doesn't have a specific origin, he just doesn't want to be caught, so has two identities. There is no vengeance, or accidents, or pacts with this character.