|
I say Paizo has a bit of a size fetish.
Giants appear regularly as the stars of AP episodes - sometimes dominating single books, sometimes becoming the theme of an entire AP.
Kobolds and Goblins: Book 1-and-done.
I think there probably is a question of intimidation factor in the minds of the writers and designers. I note that they'll happily give class levels to all manner of medium and large monsters to make them CR-appropriate, but the little races still disappear after book 1.
Does it bug me sometimes? Sure, but I see it as Paizo's prerogative to establish what they consider to be serious bad guys. If there's a demand for little bad guys, a supply will appear.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I was considering this, since the players have not met my BBEG yet, and I want her to be a master of charisma-related skills, behind the scenes maneuvering people to get what she wants. And a halfling is pretty good at those things. I'm also considering ratfolk. Unfortunately I've already set up troglodytes as the main villain species.
But, as noted, many people have a hard time imagining a little person as intimidating.
Hopefully Peter Dinklage's Tyrion will change that. Even in the books I felt like this is really the first little person I've seen that is written just like any other character. It informs him and his experience but doesn't define him. And Peter Dinklage is awesome in that role as he is in every roll I've ever seen him in.
But, as noted, many people have a hard time imagining a little person as intimidating.Hopefully Peter Dinklage's Tyrion will change that. Even in the books I felt like this is really the first little person I've seen that is written just like any other character. It informs him and his experience but doesn't define him. And Peter Dinklage is awesome in that role as he is in every roll I've ever seen him in.
My first thought when I read the thread title was "Tyrion Lannister," so I'm glad I'm not the only one to think along these lines. I think a Tyrion-esque Sorcerer or Wizard (can anyone argue that Tyrion doesn't have high INT and CHA?) could be a great BBEG. Especially at the end of an adventure full of scheming and turnabouts.
Not that long ago I found myself watching the trailer for the new Final Fantasy MMO expansion (Heavensward) and near as I can tell the main villain for this is one of their Halfling/Gnome race. Sinister looking little guy with a Fu-Manchu mustache, dressed in black with a visor that covers his normally cute looking eyes.
He gives a pretty good impression for a villain. If you want to check it out
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I admit to being horribly bigoted against Gnomes, and I don't at all blame Paizo for leaving them to less important roles.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I admit to being horribly bigoted against Gnomes, and I don't at all blame Paizo for leaving them to less important roles.
Lol I'm quite the opposite as I'm a bit bigoted against dwarves.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Halflings can't be evil because they're incorruptible.
Like kender.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Gnomes are predisposed to having quirky obsessions. They're on a constant quest for novelty to keep them from Bleaching. It's not difficult to imagine a gnome with decidedly more... gruesome obsessions. I could see Count Rugen from The Princess Bride as a gnome.
Gnomes are always the enemy. All other thought is folly.
Also, I'd be curious how many more PCs have likely died to a certain halfling in First Steps compared to most any other iconic means of death out there. That guy has GOT to have racked up one HECK of a body count over the years given how often that scenario has probably been run.
-TimD
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
We can do better.
Make it a Kender.
I think the goal is to challenge the survival skills of the PCs in a game, not the self-defense skills of the designers at a game convention.
-TimD
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Technically speaking I think a Halfling can't be a BIG bad evil guy...
maybe a SBEG?
Well its kinda hard to have a Serious terror when you barely reach a person's kneecaps...
I mean, just try and picture this Vicious and evil looking Blackguard... then seeing he can literally be thrown without too much effort..
Halfing as the Ruler Behind the Throne -- a clever jester, a prime minister, a villain who needs to be counter-manipulated as well as just outfought.
A powerful sorcerer or oracle (or even a mystic theurge build), or even a bard, would be right up their alley. And no one would expect it, particularly if he showed up earlier and helped the PCs a bit...
But once found out... he really wouldn't be all that terrifying due to his... well... halflingness xD
|
I say Paizo has a bit of a size fetish.
Anyone who has played with me would say I also have a size fetish, but for small characters.
And for the most part I agree. You can very easily make a small sized character intimidating, strong, powerful, hopeless, deranged, dangerous, almighty, or anything in between. But it's really hard for some people to take the concept seriously, despite writing supporting the idea, and that really discourages trying to use them as anything other than their stereotypes.
Take a single glance at say, FF14 or WoW. Punting and eating jokes abound, simply because the races are small. Gnomes are literally a joke race that can never be taken seriously by their actual writers (in WoW), Goblins as well just in a negative light.
Hopefully Peter Dinklage's Tyrion will change that. Even in the books I felt like this is really the first little person I've seen that is written just like any other character. It informs him and his experience but doesn't define him. And Peter Dinklage is awesome in that role as he is in every roll I've ever seen him in.
Considering two of the most iconic and popular pieces of fantasy settings, Lord of the Rings, and GoT, feature small characters prominently, and yet the common perception is still this way, I doubt it will change.
Say what you will about the 3-part Hobbit films, they did make me want to play a Halfling Burglar for a bit.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A kobold with lots of levels in a spellcasting class, in their own lair?
Given their penchant for traps, that's terrifying. That place is going to be a minefield. The kobold snaps his fingers, and a gross of magic missiles nail the Fighter...
I read a funny anecdote that someone linked to on Paizo. This was back in like 2nd edition, and the DM had a megadungeon whose first floor was inhabited by kobolds. The kobolds were run very intelligently though, and made maximum use of traps, narrow corridors, ambushes, etc. The party was so traumatized that they gladly jumped down a pit leading who-knows-where, if it meant not dealing with those kobolds.
So yeah, something like that could definitely work. Would I want the final adventure of an AP populated largely by deadly kobolds? Eh, not so much. Would I like those same kobolds in a high-level stand-alone adventure in the Module line? Yes I would indeed.
Kobolds coming at you from all sides, some trained as duelists, some backstabbing rogues, some riding slurks, and oh so many sorcerers and oracles. That'd be nightmarish.
Sound's like you're talking about Tucker's Kobolds.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Oh, the Kobold monk story. The kobold monk....
High levels, characters are all lvl 16.
Pass a room in a dungeon, spot a kobold in it.
A single.
Lone.
Kobold.
Dressed in monk robes, sitting in silent meditation.
"Do you think he's hostile?"
"I don't know, he's a kobold!"
"Think we can take him?"
"No freakin way! We're lvl 16! This is obviously some kind of trap! Why else would there be a f&*#&ing kobold here?!"
*party passes the room unceremoniously*
Slightly off-topic: one of my World of Warcraft characters is a gnome named Froron, who is based around of Frodo claiming the ring and becoming the Dark Lord in earnest. So naturally he's a Warlock Jewelcrafter.
So yeah, I do believe a halfling can be BBEG, so long as s/he has the right tools to aid (or corrupt) them. Throw in a little fallen hero story for flavour and Bob's your uncle.
Huh... I don't collect many modern day pregen adventures and I never play them. I write all my own campaigns. So I never noticed this.
I guess I assumed every GM eventually used a Master-Blaster villain concept (small smart guy, giant dumb guy) as that is a common trope in film and books. Or, that more people remembered Qesnef/Fenseq from White Plume Mountain (though he was actually not really... well, I'll not spoil it). Or that more people used the archetypal tiny mad scientist (another villain trope).
I have, and do.
Ever seen the Leprechaun movies? Classics of their time.
There is one great halfling evil character I can think of.
I think she is a fantastic villain if played well, and can even be redeemed by particularly hard headed PCs.
A Halfling mastermind? How about so could a whole party of Halflings[/url]a whole party of them? Individually, a Halfling Jinxing Witch could already be a very scary villain mastermind, but why stop there? Give your mastermind a whole party worth of action economy friends. If they can be a scary PC concept, they can be scary villain masterminds too. Here is an edited version of the concept I have for Giantslayer, but with slight tweaking it should work for a villain mastermind cabal:
1. Mouser Tower Antishieldadin: Mouser Swashbuckler 1 + Tower Shield Specialist Fighter 5 or 6 + Profane Shield (optionally also Warrior of the Unholy Blot) Antipaladin (convert the obvious corresponding Paladin archetypes -- have this be explicitly a fallen Paladin) rest of the way up (or 4 levels if you take the Stalwart Defender option), not necessarily in that order; not taking the Battle Herald option, because the party will have a separate Bard. Makes enemies have a really hard time hurting any of the party; can get into an enemy's face unexpectedly to make them less effective, and is surprisingly hard to take out, but too painful to ignore (get Risky Striker to help with this), and can even make enemies waste AoOs simply by having insanely high AC. (Of course, to help with that last part, get Dodge as soon as you have a feat to spare -- this is needed anyway if you take the Stalwart Defender option.)
2. Bard (or maybe Skald) built primarily for buffing and secondarily for archery (or slinging, but making this decent requires a hefty feat tax, if I remember correctly). Makes the party more effective, and helps to put the hurt on enemies that won't close to melee, including flyers. Also can help alleviate the Witch's shortage of spells per day significantly (Use Magic Device is a good skill investment for this). (Since Ninja doesn't have Trapfinding or Trap Sense, and Filcher Rogue doesn't have Trap Sense, if you think you need these, search for a Bard archetype that does these, as long as it doesn't hurt party buffing too much, although all the ones I checked from the above list that offer a Trapfinding equivalent do hurt party buffing, although some of them can debuff decently.)
3. Underfoot Adept Monk built for Monkey Shining (the whole Monkey Style Feat chain), with a 1 level dip in Mouser. Trips up your enemies and makes them vulnerable to the Ninja. Also does decent melee damage in its own right (get Risky Striker to help with this) and is hard to take out. (Problem: As far as I know, NONE of the existing Monk archetypes work with Monk Unchained, which came out well after my original post. If allowed your choice of pre-Unchained Monk or Monk Unchained, it might still be worthwhile to use pre-Unchained Monk so that you can use Underfoot Adept.)
4. Ninja (not sure if you can add useful Rogue archetypes to this) built for Dirty Tricks, with a secondary focus on ranged Sneak Attack. (Substituting this the Halfling-specific Rogue archetype is another possibility, which doesn't trade out Trapfinding but still trades out Trap Sense.) Use a combination of Vanishing Trick (caution: high Rogue Talent tax if you are a Filcher Rogue instead of a Ninja) and Dirty Tricks (and eventually the Circling Mongoose feat) to make enemies susceptible to Sneak Attack even when you can't get help with a flank from an ally. Primary melee damage dealer (assisted by the Monk), but can eventually also Snap Shot Sneak Attack if the opportunity arises. Can also provide some Anti-Air. (Not sure how Rogue Unchained works with Ninja. One thing from Pathfinder Unchained that DOES help with this is stacking Fractional Bonuses, which improves the option of taking the Halfling Opportunist prestige class, since both this and your base class are 3/4 BAB, and at the completion of this you will have 5 levels in each, which is one of the worst possible combinations of class level numbers without stacking Fractional Bonuses.)
5. (And here's the boss) Witch specializing in debuffing (focus Hexes mainly on this, but leave room for Healing and eventually Major Healing) including Jinxing (focus feats on this), with secondary focus on AoE damage and battlefield control, eventually including Area Jinx. Really hoses single powerful enemies, and eventually multiple powerful enemies, by making them ineffective and vulnerable. Can deal with swarms in an emergency (if properly prepared). (Caution: This will be your only 9/9 spellcaster -- make sure you get spells to cover your primary spellcasting needs of both types, and note that shortage of spells per day may be a problem, so get the obvious reservoirs of frequently used spells; if you allow this cheese for PCs, have the Witch use Hex Vulnerability together with the Healing and eventually Major Healing Hexes.)
(Edited to give more fitting names to the somewhat custom Antipaladin archetypes needed in #1 above.)
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have two thoughts on possible small-size bad guys, one of which I'll share.
Halflings are more nimble than humans, stealthier than just about any race that is allowed inside of city walls for any length of time, and are physically gifted for the most part. Why, then, don't they just take over the local thieves' guild?
A halfling-exclusive thieves' guild that ruthlessly put down competitors would be a nightmare in an urban campaign. Run by Masterminds and staffed to the gills with rogues and alchemists, they'd be the bane of any law enforcement agency, and a fantastic foil for PCs - will the big folk dare a guildhouse where they'll have to crouch the whole time, laden with traps and murder holes?
In terms of narrative, it opens up interesting story explorations of how and why criminal organizations form, the reasons they might create rules of exclusivity, and how those rules help or hurt. I'd play that game every day and twice on Sunday.
Assuming my games have a BBEG at all (most don't) they tend to be overwhelmingly medium. But I have used a handfullof small ones as well as a Tiny sized BBEG who my group still talks about even several years later.
Have you taken a look a John Wick's Wicked Fantasy setting.
The Halflings in that world have a base class all their own called the Butler.
Basically the Butler solves his family's problems for them. He sees that their meals are prepared, their cloths are cleaned and the house kept in order.
He also removes annoying pests like politcal and business rivals.
Always present but never seen, cleaning up the family mess behind the scenes.
Even without the class the idea translates fairly well into a regular Pathfinder game.
Imagine a wealthy family, slowly rising up in society. Their rivals disappear, their scandels get cleaned up quietly and they always seem to end up on the right side of any business venture. From all outward appearances the Family must be in charge of some massive guild of thugs and assassins but in reality they are nice well meaning family who can't beleive their stroke of good luck.
Meanwhile the Halfling butler quietly goes about his daily business making certain things go well for them, regardless of who needs to be crushed underfoot, because that is what loyalty is all about. Seeing to the Tea, arranging the master's appointments for the day, balancing the books and slitting the occasional throat.
All in a day's work
I'm creating a Moriarty-esque villain as a Dread Gnome Mastermind. So Small can Rule!
That sounds incredibly cool. You definitely painted a picture - I'll have to check that out.Have you taken a look a John Wick's Wicked Fantasy setting.
The Halflings in that world have a base class all their own called the Butler.
I do recomend it, it's a very neat book. He basically takes 10 of the common races for Pathfinder/D&D and gives each of them a new twist while remaining true to the normal image of the race.
I particularly like the chapters on Goblins and OrcsAnd the Dwarves. lol there is a single page with just three words big and bold as can, be that really sums up the Dwarves.
Dwarves Like Beer
From Fairy Tales to LotR, smaller people are seen as heroic, not villainous. Additionally, the big, strong folks are typically bad guys (it is seen as more heroic for a smaller hero to take on a bigger villain, than vice versa).
Finally, when you are talking about a 4+ on one fight (as many BBEG fights are), having the 4+ heroes gang up on a smaller foe evokes imagery of bullying as opposed to heroics.
That's why you don't have just one Small-sized villain mastermind -- you have a whole party of them, and THEY do the ganging up on big strong folks, noble or otherwise.
I have two thoughts on possible small-size bad guys, one of which I'll share.
Halflings are more nimble than humans, stealthier than just about any race that is allowed inside of city walls for any length of time, and are physically gifted for the most part. Why, then, don't they just take over the local thieves' guild?
A halfling-exclusive thieves' guild that ruthlessly put down competitors would be a nightmare in an urban campaign. Run by Masterminds and staffed to the gills with rogues and alchemists, they'd be the bane of any law enforcement agency, and a fantastic foil for PCs - will the big folk dare a guildhouse where they'll have to crouch the whole time, laden with traps and murder holes?
In terms of narrative, it opens up interesting story explorations of how and why criminal organizations form, the reasons they might create rules of exclusivity, and how those rules help or hurt. I'd play that game every day and twice on Sunday.
I have always been a fan of the Boromar Clan from Eberron. :)
Halfling Strategist or Tactical Fighter with a lot of minions could be neat. Tiny little guy in the back giving advice and orders (and teamwork feats) to a bunch of much larger heavily armed guys