noble peasant's page

I haven’t heard of that weapon. Thanks for the quick help

Is it specific to that weapon?

Pretty much the topic. :P

I know you've said you've done plenty of rogues but have messed with the phantom thief archetype? It's really cool but as a rogue archetype that gives up sneak attack it's gotten a few funny looks.

The character will be a magus this will be in melee quite often and I don't want the familiar getting hit a bunch from provoking.

I mean the easiest answer would be don't use it in combat but I was curious if there was a way to not have that happen.

Topic. But as an example let's say First level I go fighter, then i take two rogue levels. I'd be level three with 1 sneak attack die but I take accomplished sneak attacker s I have two which would be the limit. Next level I progress in rogue and now I've hit 3 sneak attack die at level four which now puts me over the sneak attack die limit as it hasn't raised yet. So what happens here? Does the feat simply have no effect?

Matt2VK wrote:

I've seen someone use this and take a couple levels of Mouser (Swashbuckler Archetype).

Do you know why they took more then one level?

Maybe more sneak attack? Also you can take combat trick twice I think? Pretty sure it's more than normal either way so maybe that and extra combat feats?

Editing my initial build

Vigilante (warlock) X/rouge (unchained, vexing dodger) 3/swashbuckler x-3 (start taking rogue levels at level 4 or 6 or so)

primary weapon is 1d6+ 1/4th level+dex+level-3+weapon training+1/5th level +feats for damage , in addition to 2d6 sneak attack (3d6 with a feat)
At 3rd level it's a touch attack that lets you roll an intimidate check as a swift action

Not to mention up to 6th level sorcerer/wizard spells

Apparently it's debatable whether foxes have free hands. Since this seems to be a home game tha shouldn't be too bad of a debate to win though but It's apparently debateable.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tpln?Ok-real-talk-If-Im-a-fox-am-I-considered- to#4

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tpm4?I-am-vengeance-I-am-the-night-I-am-A-DOG# 1

some ideas thrown around on this page might be helpful. There was a bit of duscussion on the "mockingbird" social talent and whether it could be used to speak in fox form. Gestalt this with any unchained rogue to get dex to damage for free with your tiny paw punches. Vexing dodger would be an option there too.

Or maybe just unchained scaled disciple and phantom thief gestalt. Still has access to mocking bird if your table would let that allow you to functionally speak, dex to damage on your unarmed strikes and prereqs free dragon style get 1.5 or double dex, depending on feat progress and such, coupled with your +2 racial bonus to dex and an extra +4 while in fox shape should add up to solid damage modifier. I'm pretty sure your die roll for punches would stay quite low but oh well. You'd also have a lot of skill ranks, plenty of skill unlocks which you'd receive benefits from early and get half level to those skills, everything save for fly is a class skill. All this would make for the ultimate utility character as well as being an untouchable combat pest.

Secret Wizard wrote:

Too bad it's for PFS, otherwise Sword Devil would be perfect for this.

Here's how I would build this:

Class: Unchained Barbarian, Savage Technologist archetype
Race:: Human, Military Tradition (Estoc, Elven Branched Spear), feel free to replace Skilled with whatever you want but Heart of the Fields is really handy for Barbs

Point Buy: S15 D16+2 C14 I10 W10 CH8

Feats and Talents:

LV1. Weapon Finesse, Power Attack

LV2. Guarded Stance

LV3. Extra RP: Superstition

LV4. Lesser Beast Totem, +1 STR

LV5. Reckless Rage

LV6. Beast Totem

LV7. Iron Will

LV8. Reflexive Dodge, +1 DEX

With this build, at level 8, while unarmored, you have a total of 20 AC (10 + 4 DEX + 3 Beast Totem + 3 Guarded Stance + 2 Savage Barbarian - 2 Rage). Not too shabby, particularly because it all scales and you have a great HP padding behind that. Your Reflex saves should be extremely good too, and you are getting bonuses to a lot of different saves with this build, plus the ability to use either an Estoc for Power Attacking 1.5x damage or an Elven Branched Spear if you need the reach.

Plus with the Estoc you can always get a buckler on for extra AC if you need it.

I sure hope the sword devil becomes PFS legal soon.

Seconded. :)

noble peasant wrote:

nicholas storm wrote:

Unarmed fighter won't do anything for you, because it can't get you elven battle focus, because that isn't a style feat.

Is it not a style feat? Why isn't it a style feat? What defines a style feat I guess is my question.

It's confusing, I know. For example, the ACG has a table titled "Style Feats" that includes the feat chain Pummeling Style, Pummeling Bully, and Pummeling Charge. That would certainly make you think that all three are Style Feats, but in fact only Pummeling Style has the "Style" designation next to its name in its description so it is the only one of the three that is actually a Style Feat.

So while both Elven Battle Focus and Elven Battle Torrent have Elven Battle Style as a prerequisite and can only be used when you have Elven Battle Style active, neither is a Style feat themselves.

Well shoot. Makes sense but I did not get that the first time around. Or the second :P

Unarmed fighter won't do anything for you, because it can't get you elven battle focus, because that isn't a style feat.

Is it not a style feat? Why isn't it a style feat? What defines a style feat I guess is my question.

It's not even errata that i know of MoMS only ignores prereqs for [style] feats meaning that the follow up feats aren't can't have theirs ignored. However your wildcard slots can be used for them provided you meet the prereqs but that's only useful if you are planning on having extra styles.

I brought this one back up cuz it's relevant but is there a similar restriction on the "prereqs free" style feat that the unarmed fighter gives you??

plaidwandering wrote:

AR=additional resources

It isn't really a change to be honest. It's a misinterpretation to think you can apply it to weapons other than those specified in elven battle style.

elven battle style gives you a bonus while using certain weapons(a longsword, a rapier, or any melee weapon that has “elven” in its name), elven battle focus says while using elven battle style, you can add your Intelligence modifier to that weapon’s damage

Throwing enchant + "a longsword, a rapier, or any melee weapon that has “elven” in its name" equals weapons that are allowed by the elven battle style that can be used in ranged combat. So there is no "misinterpretation" needed to think that it should work in ranged combat.

No he's right I did read it wrong. I can be bad about that. Shame, that halfway blows my idea on a phantom thief archer.

Also in PFS elven battle focus is definitely melee only(see AR)

Idk what AR is but seriously why? That's an odd change to make just for PFS. I just want a non caster that gets good use of int!

Just WHY. I want refunds. XD

You could also just use an elven curve blade. Two-handed but finessable, with better damage than the long sword.

Didn't see this one till now, it doesn't work with most of the duelist stuff. It's still a thought I'd been considering.

noble peasant wrote:

Secret Wizard wrote:

Another good one is an Unchained monk. You can build for sword use too.

Check the Mantis build in my guide. You can adapt it to be more utility based in coherent ways.

It would be nice to use unchained for something other than the unchained rogue. I'll definitely give it a look cuz the monk was always my second favorite class and I haven't really tried out the unchained to see how it's changes play out.

check it out

Made this guide because people were being pissy after unchained monk came out because it didn't fit their fan fiction. It's not flawless design but it's great design. Most of the problems it has can be fixed with a few releases down the line.

Before anything of the rewrite makes you knock the unchained version (for some reason people were attached to the -10 extra attack), check the build section. It shows stats to prove the class doesn't just make do.

The Mantis build combines swordsmanship with a few unarmed strikes here and there.

Thanks bud. Swords and punching people are a few of my favorite things. :)

Then frankly, I don't know what to tell you. What you ask for can't be done by the martials very well, and it sounds like the barbie Secret Wizard suggested is exactly what you want but apparently not good enough. So you might as well accept it's simply out of the realm of possibility for a martial.

Or just play a Kensai Magus. Int-based unarmoured martial which can gain proficiency and Weapon Focus in one martial or exotic weapon, which gives you Estocs, so you can use Dex to hit and damage using spells and Strength. Again, take minimum 13 Strength. You cannot dump strength on ANY martial. Period. Don't do it unless you want to be completely useless.

So, unarmoured swordsman. OOPS, MISSED THAT BIT. Eh, if you go Mutagen Warrior you still get what you want with my build. That natural armour bonus is baller! Oh, and if skills are a problem, then you can get Versatile Training to help keep up your skills where necessary.

Yea I know the demands are pretty high, and I'm being pretty persnickety about wanting a lot of skills, I'm not trying to be the star of the show in combat either, just trying give up a bit of skill points than I usually have to try to squeeze in a bit more damage cuz frankly that's always the main complaint is I just don't do much damage cuz I know that one everyone else is bringing muscle and two I know combat isn't my time to shine so as long as I can tack on some damage and help with some minor support stuff And not get killed I'm pretty content. im just trying to adress my PFS mates criticisms. Sure I could say bring some skills then but it's not like they aren't more than content to kill their way through everything. I'm not so it falling in me to bring those things sounds about right.

Another good one is an Unchained monk. You can build for sword use too.

Check the Mantis build in my guide. You can adapt it to be more utility based in coherent ways.

It would be nice to use unchained for something other than the unchained rogue. I'll definitely give it a look cuz the monk was always my second favorite class and I haven't really tried out the unchained to see how it's changes play out.

Well there's the thing, everyone else brings beat sticks, I'm serious it's very uncommon for me to not be the only character who isn't martial, even casters are few and far between but I don't enjoy them much. Also when I say martials, I mean mental stat dumping martials, usually 7 int or 7 charisma. Sometimes both take hits.

Str stuff is the only things ever covered. As I've mentioned I'd I don't wanna murder my way through every adventure I have to bring whatever skills I might need because, and I'm not exagerating, its the norm at these tables for me to be the only one packing any reasonable amount of skills and not have crap rolls on them. Knowledges are never present, disable device is never present, I can't recall a time I want doing the diplomacy. Its a Big reason I play rogues nigh exclusively cuz funny enough it's been this way since I played games at home with a dungeon master and a two man party. My friend was the bea stick and I was the skill monkey.

If I want a skill present at the table I have to bring it has basically been the rule of thumb for me at these tables, which includes social skills, knowledges, and general helpful stuff like disable device and what have ya. Which is fine I'd play rogues all day, but as I'm trying to address the comments I tend to get about my lack luster "at least I don't die and need saved" kinda characters who mainly pester while still having a sizeable amount of skills I can roll very high on. Frankly combat prowess of the group is never really an issue, the tables are all combat optimized characters. I cover literally everything else when I'm there but there tends to be some concerns about me in combat and building to simply stay alive and pester to do my skill monkey job later gets frowned upon at times.

Huh, guess my copy of the book is pretty old, wonder how much other out of date stuff I'm looking at lol.

That does seem pretty legit save for two things: 1 idk if I can use the dueling sword with elven battle style, I don't think I can but I might be wrong.

2: if I can find this errata secret wizard mentioned the moms thing may not work for grabbing the feat.

Moms cannot get you elven battle focus without prereqs, there was errata, 2015 I think

Well shoot. Ima have to go check on that.

Well that archetype being unavailable is a serious bummer. And people wonder why I get snippy about the "must own the book rule." Not only are the books expensive but even when I do own them I can't use half the stuff in it. Or better yet the whole book is made illegal for play after I've purchased it... *sigh* but I digress I know getting people to buy the stuff is the point and there's no use in whining.

Those other options are likely way better but bringing a good amount of skills and being capable with them was also part of the point. I can't think of the last time I've played with anyone at the places that host PFS I can make it too that have brought anything but a beat stick kinda character so skills at the table tend to be, and by that I mean always in my experience, nonexistent outside of what I bring. I'm talking druids without knowledge nature, Paladins without diplomacy or knowledge religion (I do have to say though the paladin did play this off hilariously going with a sort of "what part of blind faith don't you get?" Kinda thing")

All of this is fine but I'm trying to address a common knitpick wth my characters, which is that I don't stack up with everyone else in combat, while still doing what i primarily enjoy which as a fan of social encounters and dungeon crawling etc. etc. is skills and such. I don't die or need saving all the time or anything but I don't really deal much damage so not super useful is the best way to put it and It's not like I don't enjoy combat encounters but it's hard to keep up with their characters at least to an extent where they aren't asking what the heck did you build and trying to give me advice later while packing tons of skills and being capable enough at them to regularly succeed with them as i get higher level.

So a LOT of skill ranks is kinda the hang up here, so a martial who makes good use of mental stats, particularly int cuz that gets more ranks and can replace most charisma uses, and ends up with a pretty decent amount skill ranks is my hang up I suppose.

To answer the title question...

Yes. Slashing Grace is the only PFS-Legal, non-enchantment method I know of to apply Weapon Finesse to and get Dex-To-Damage with a Longsword.

Well I don't need to dex to damage but I'll take that as it's the only way to do either.

Is there any other ways o get dex to attack with a long sword? I've been fiddling with trying to Make a character who uses a long sword with elven battle style. It frankly getting int to damage while stil using strength to hit just feels dumb to do. If nothing else I can use a rapier but I hate rapiers for whatever reason and two handing the long sword would be ideal. I really wanted to go for a sort of "weapon monk" idea, or an unarmored swordsman.
THIS IS FOR PFS as an FYI. ;)

So far the build is as follows.

Race: kitsune with the "keen kitsune" and "skilled" racial options (as a dedicated rogue i'm hoping all this will help my skill ranks withdrawal XD )
Stats:
STR: 8 (10-2)
DEX: 16(14+2)
CON: 12 8th and 12th level points here
INT: 17 (15+2) 4th level point goes here
WIS: 16
Cha: 7

1st level- Courser: d10 hit die is good for first level, weapon finesse with some wiggle room if I need it is good. Dodge as a bonus feat is good. Lastly gaining 5 feet of extra movement speed for simply not using my one point of panache is good cuz gotta go fast.

2nd and 3rd level- master of many styles monk/monk of the sacred mountain: good saves, two style feats that I don't need to meet the prerequisites for to get elven battle focus, toughness helps with being less squishy and natural armor is always nice particularly with this.

Now from here on is where I'm unsure on class progression. Going to fourth level in monk is the ideal here because that'll net me fun monk stuff like the much needed +1 ac bonus cuz I'm gonna need all I can get, another prerequisites free style feat which could be super helpful even if I don't know what else to take, and not being able to tripped or moved if I stay in the same square also sounds great. However I don't want to go farther yet because I'd like to not lose anymore bab just yet as to not delay getting into duelist anymore than I had to. Also I'll be taking four levels of duelist then returning to monk progression.

So after these levels I've mentioned I'd need to take a two level dip into another martial class, I could continue in swashbuckler but I wouldn't get much out of it due to having 7 charisma. Charmed life would be literally pointless as would be more deeds. Nimble would be good but I think it's not worth it. So there were a few options I thought could be good.

2 levels of ilsurian archer- since I'd also get int to damage with bows snagging bullseye shot and precise shot could make me decent switch hitter should the need for a ranged fighter show itself. No one ever seems to have those where I play as well.

2 levels of slayer/ranger other than ilsurian archer- all the other stuff is nice and could use the ranger combat style to grab power attack.

2 levels of fighter- can't really go wrong there

1 level of snake bite brawler/1 fighter level: most of my saves would be stupid beyond belief with all the multiclassing, an extra feat and a sneak attack die cuz it couldn't hurt.

As far as feats from level progression I have no real idea of what to get, I'm not super up to snuff onnfeats but I'd have to grab mobility to get into duelist and that's all I've really got other than just grabbing simple stuff like weapon focus.

Having grown up on playing very lethal campaigns, I've always felt an odd disconnect with most players as they don't seem to take character death very well, that or they're surprised when I'm not only not disappointed when my pc dies but rather I'm relishing an awesome last stand. I remember an awesome encounter at a PFS table where we were struggling to take down some river drakes I believe while on a boat. We were down to the last one but we were all nearly down and out. The last drake came back into the boat but got a little too close to me while getting on the boat and got hit with a stunning fist for its carelessness and it actually failed the save likely saving one of us an attack we weren't in any shape to handle. Luckily I was up next and tripped him, I then died from the acid that was spat on me the earlier. However the drake was on the laying on the ground and everyone pounced on it and it was hard fought win. However the dm realized he had ran the encounter for a higher tier than we were playing and decided to not count my death. Needless to say I got some odd looks when I contested him on this. I finished the session but didn't play the character again cuz frankly I was quite content with that being his end.

Not every death is a good one though, sometimes your final stand is more like having your underwear pulled over your eyes and being pushed off something very tall and are good for a laugh.

There was another PFS scenario I played where you basically had to play tower defense for a meeting happening at some old lighthouse and I was playing a switch hitting half elf slayer. We decided to split the party, cuz we're smart, and have me at the top of the lighthouse keeping watch where I could safely fire arrows while the others were downstairs to take the brunt of the assault as I was under leveled for the tier we were in. Sounded good on paper right? Well none of us expected two unarmed fighters with potions of fly to storm the lighthouse from the top. I was promptly punched, pinned and hogtied while the rest of the party braced themselves for the forces storming the first floor. They fought for a while and i had partially excused myself so they could do their thing but I wasn't dead but had no chance of breaking my bonds. A soldier checked the top of the lighthouse but I managed to feign being dead and he left me be. It looked as if so lon as the rest of the party survived I'd be good too. Except they started shooting flaming arrows at the place and I reminded the dm of the barrel of whale oil next to me we explicitly brought up there for me to dump on people should the opportunity have shown itself. The party heard an explosion soon after. X(

This was really fun session, made mainly memorable by my rediculous death and I thought it'd be fun to hear similar experiences. :D

I was just thinking that between being able to get half my level to heal and get its skill unlock and get access to the higher unlocks early AND grabbing this talent to use the heal skill as if it were profession I thought I'd finally found a good way to make a fun character who was a doctor for PFS. Bloody clerics keeping me out of business... Oh well, knabbing some crappy day job money isn't worth being "that guy" and the rest still works. I know they word those open ended like that for future books but it trips me up from time to time. Thanks for the help! :)

The restriction is stated as I can't take social talents that would require me to be a "craftsman or professional" as well as social grace being unavailable. Now most of the talents explicitly mention that the talent involves you being the aforementioned things, for example the talent double time starts off by saying your social identity is that of a skilled craftsman. However the talent Entrepreneur makes no such statement but it could be implied by the name of the talent that you are a professional of some fashion so I have no idea if I could take this or not.

Can you ride a pony that was summoned with summon monster 1?

So I've been playing around with the idea of a rogue who would have ludicrous umd, which is obviously not hard for a rogue obviously, and with that use summoning scrolls in the more "up scale" fights in scenarios. I should've thought of this earlier as a super easy way for the rogue to make up for the one time everyone hates to have a rogue around which is higher level combat.

While I'm really digging trying this I've never really used summoning spells and beyond simply having your summons abilities on hand I don't know how to handle them in a way that wouldn't detract from the other player's fun as I know a few people in my usual Pathfinder circles who have given summoning like magics a pretty bad reputation of being very effective but not fun to play with, so this is more of a question of how not to be a jerk rather than how to be effective.

Have you looked into elven Batlle style? The second feat in the tree reads as follows.

While using Elven Battle Style, you can add your Intelligence modifier to that weapon’s damage (instead of any other ability bonus or modifier you can add to your weapon damage). The weapon must be one appropriate for your size.

You could snag this at first level if you dip unarmed fighter, or really dip into unarmed fighter on a level you get a feat to snag them both at the same time. You have to have the elven weapon familiarity thing but half-elves can get that. You'd have to use an elven curve blade, elven branched spear, rapier or long sword.

I haven't managed to find a god of cooking yet and considering all the deities that focus on very specific or all around not terribly important things, like a major deity that basically only cares about how pretty something is, it's odd that there isn't even a minor deity whose focus, or at the very least has it listed as an area of concern, is cooking. Did I miss a deity somewhere? Because frankly looking at all the deitites and how truly mundane some of their focuses are I kind of want to call it an oversight at this point.

Yea that's definitely a strike against bows, wasn't really digging it but was just throwing it out there. Ferocity would be nice I suppose, I'm not actually sure what the difference between that and diehard is, I simply haven't looked into it mainly cuz I was pretty sold on heart of the wilderness, but that coupled with deathless initiate seems pretty nice and I'm not averse to going half-orc. That would also save me some feats if I start off with ferocity.

So I've been playing around with this character idea for a while now, however the concept itself is fulfilled with just two feats and simply progressing through paladin levels with the iroran paladin archetype and the warrior of the holy light archetype. I know the last one isn't typically seen favorably but hear me out. So the build starts off like this:

Race: human with the Heart of the wilderness racial trait.
Stats: Str: 14 Con: 14 dex: 14 Int: 10 wis: 8 Cha: 17 (15+2)

Now the only feats I have planned are toughness and diehard, which could be gotten at first level if I want but I'm more than ok with waiting to grab those at 3rd and 5th level. The whole idea is simply to never go down, or at least be the last one too lol, with decent hit die, toughness, decent con, and heart of the wild giving me half of my level to the total of negative hit points I can drop to before I die, diehard, and lay on hands coupled with a solid charisma score and warrior of the holy light giving me even more lay on hands I should be pretty hard to take down. On top of this I'll do the usual good diplomacy score will be my only real out of combat utility. The question is though is how should I fight? I won't have a lot of feats to mess with and two of them are going to toughness and diehard. I thought archery might be a good way to go since I could snag precise shot at first level, and archery is pretty good even without many feats, not to mention I could punch people who get to close or as a last resort if I get pinned in somewhere. But that wouldn't really capitalize on the whole "I never die" thing. Now you may be wondering, "Where does iroran paladin fit into all this? Why take it?" The answer to that is simply that I like the archetype, and the flavor added by the whole idea of striving to perfect yourself to better serve others is an appealing one.

Now to my understanding, if you deviate from a lawful alignment you still can use your monk abilities but can't take more levels, but what if I multiclassed into vigilante, and one identity is lawful, and one isn't?

Yea I guess that would fall under that. Duh

Bump?

Ascetic style allows you to apply feats that have improved unarmed strike as a prerequisite to a particular weapon and dragon style allows me to add 1.5 strength on unarmed attacks so I can apply this affect to a weapon now with fuse style, let's say a seven branched sword which is two handed so it already applies 1.5 strength, does this allow me to add double strength on hit??

If yes, what if I were to take a 3 level dip into two-handed fighter and get the ability overhanded chop? This allows me to add double strength when making a single attack with a two handed weapon. So if I used fuse style to use ascetic style and dragon style along with overhanded chop could I make single attack with a two handed weapon and add 2.5 strength?

I see no such line in the feat.

Dragon Empires Primer p5 Fox Shape wrote:

You can change into a fox in addition to your other forms.

Prerequisites: Cha 13, base attack bonus +3, kitsune.
Benefit: You can take the form of a fox (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 3 112) whose appearance is static and cannot be changed each time you assume this form. Your bite attack’s damage is reduced to 1d3 points of damage on a hit, but you gain a +10 racial bonus on Disguise checks made to appear as a fox. Changing from kitsune to fox shape is a standard action. This ability otherwise functions as beast shape II, and your ability scores change accordingly.

What is your source?

Edit: I found the line, it is in the sidebar header.

Dragon Empires Primer p5 Header wrote:

Bonus Kitsune Feats

A kitsune may select from the following feats any time she would gain a feat.

Pfsrd http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/fox-shape

It might just be on there, I'll check my book when I get home, maybe it's a bit from a third party thing or something

Fox Shape:
You can change into a fox in addition to your other forms.

Prerequisites: Cha 13, base attack bonus +3, kitsune.

Special: A kitsune may select this feat any time she would gain a feat.

So the "special" thing is telling me that a kitsune can select this feat when she gains a feat. Who would've thought? What's the point of this or is there something I'm not getting here?

Benefit: While using this style, you gain a +2 bonus to your CMD against bull rush, overrun, and trip maneuvers. You CAN also deal slashing damage with your unarmed strikes. Whenever you score a critical hit with your slashing unarmed strike, your opponent also takes 1d4 points of bleed damage at the start of his next two turns.

When it says that you CAN deal slashing damage with your unarmed strikes does that mean that my unarmed strikes deal slashing damage or are they considered a weapon capable of bludgeoning or slashing damage? Like how daggers deal slashing OR piercing damaging.

The goal is to be a Kitsune unchained rouge who fights as a fox using the fox shape feat and Dex to damage unarmed strikes and a bite that'll get Dex to damage should he ever reach lvl 11 If I'm correct on that bit as well as Kitsune style/dirty trick/debilitating injury fiend. Now that is the combat side of things, outside of combat I want to be a super utility buddy, scouting, traps, making sure we all stay safe like man's best friend should ya know?

Stats with racials:
Str: 9
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 12 (wanting to grab major and minor magic but that's negotiable I suppose)
Wis: 12 (little boost to will save perception and survival for sniffing out crime with scent)
Cha: 12 yay free twelve!

Probably gonna stick straight rouge, grabbing a better die for unarmed strike seems pointless since dropping down to tiny size will make that pretty pointless so yea.

Traits: something to make survival a class skill probably

Major and minor magic choices: Mage hand: my favorite cantrip and shocking grasp in case of incorporeal stuff

Very loosely "planned" so there may not be much to work with but suggestions are welcome. ALSO ITS A PFS CHARACTERS :P

EDIT: archetype thoughts would be good. Liking escapologist, disabling magic traps is a need to have ability so nothing that forfeits that. :)

I may be running a home brew for some friends and am aiming for a low magic setting, not in the sense that's it's weaker but that's it's incredibly scarce, like in lord of the rings or Zelda. The same logic will go to magic weapons/items where even the simplest of these are very rare and very valuable commodities. However given that equipment is a large part of leveling progression, not to mention getting better equipment is always fun, I wanted to delegate the standard plus one to attack and damage enchantment to the appropriate crafting skill for the item. This makes plenty of sense to me even thematically and otherwise I've always found it kind of silly this wasn't the case in the first place. What would be reasonable (reasonably hard DCs don't want these to be too easy to make) for making such items considering crafting masterwork requires a DC of 20?

My initial idea was adding these onto the DC of 20 for a masterwork weapon.
+5 to the DC for every +1 bonus applied for three and under
+10 dc for each bonus beyond 3 (maximum of 5)
+5 for giving such bonuses to a weapon made of a special material
Additional +5 if its adamantium

Whether anyone takes a crafting skill or I'd like to get this squared away.

Probably will take a pass on mirror image for two and a half reasons, one the wizard will likely be grabbing it, two is I'm not sure if my save dc will stay high enough for it to stay useful.

Hell's Rebels Spoiler

Twilight knife is good but considering the table is at the moment seven players with all melee save the wizard flanking shouldn't be much of an issue. So many players..

Vine strike sounds super good though, may just have to grab that.

Also gonna throw clairvoyance under the stealth wizards purview. Thx for the suggestions bud :)

Admonishing Ray does not work with sap adept tree, doesn't deal bludgeoning.

Oh yea I guess the spell doesn't give a damage type, thanks for clarifying that. :)

Spell description: You blast your enemies with rays of nonlethal force. You may fire one ray, plus one additional ray for every four levels you possess beyond 3rd (to a maximum of three rays at 11th level). Each ray requires a ranged touch attack to hit and deals 4d6 points of nonlethal damage. This is a force effect. The rays may be fired at the same or different targets, but all rays must be fired simultaneously and aimed at targets within 30 feet of each other.

The rays hit about as hard as a punch from a strong adult human, and can knock away unattended objects weighing up to 10 pounds if that amount of force could normally do so.

Playing a nonlethal unarmed snakebite striker/ Unchained eldritch scion and was curious if this line of feats would work with this spell.

So I'll be playing an unchained eldritch raider with a single level dip in snakebite striker brawler who will be going the sap master route. He's a tiefling with the pass for human trait and racial heritage Gillman in case that's relevant. I'm not explaining that one, I just want to use this awesome archetype. XD I'm not super familiar with spells as frankly this archetype is the only thing that provides the amount of magic I would want and I've never played it before. It's a hell's rebels game and we have a "stealth wizard," idk exactly what that'll entail but that's what he's said he's bringing. I'll have 16 isn't but I'm still thinking spells that target saves are likely a bad idea.

Keep in mind, I don't think it's a stretch to say this "stealth wizard" will be providing invisibility and the like, also a few lethal options could be nice as I'm sure there are plenty of things that aren't subject to nonlethal, or sneak attack, or have DR I may have a hard time getting around or any combination of the three.

Detect magic at will at second level in the archetype (third level for me cuz of dip)
Minor magic: not sure honestly, message could be good but might be covered by wizard... Maybe ray of frost as a derpy ranged sneak attack option?
Major magic: shocking grasp seems like the obvious choice, can get sneak attack and may help against things my fists may not work well against but certainly open to suggestions
Minor eldritch magic: admonishing Ray could be nice for a ranged nonlethal spell, and from what I understand should work with sap master since it qualifies for sneak attack and does nonlethal. Maybe cats grace for dex boost for obvious reasons? Favoring admonishing Ray. EDIT: I'm posting a topic in the rules section to clarify whether this works with sap adept and such.
Major eldritch magic: really unsure here, haste is nice but will likely be grabbed by the wizard sooo maybe versatile weapon to help my punches get through certain DR? Particularly cold iron considering the adventure path. Greater Thunderstomp cuz it's awesome and could be handy for our plethora of melee characters? Lightning bolt for... well more lightning? Idk.

Yea probably, but I was curious