Legends of Tomorrow


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League of Shadows HQ: Nanda Parbat. In the comics its in SE Asia, presumably around the Himalayas. In the Arrowverse its a suburb of Star City, probably near Iron Heights Prison (which is right between Star City and Central City).


I doubt seriously we'll see Jason Blood, Etrigen OR even Merlin for that matter.

Mostly because it seems they don't do much magic on this show.


So, on rewatch:
1) Dwarfstar alloy is bulletproof. Shouldn't it be toothproof?
1a) Doesn't the atom retain strength like his Marvel counterpart Ant-Man?

2) Jax, shoot him in the leg. Its not fatal - especially if you take him back to the Waverider - and he can't take the stick.

3) The Legion of Doom wants the stick, and will get onboard to take it. Why not make a look-alike, and put it someplace it might logically be hidden. Then put the real one inside random bulkhead. That way, they literally have to tear the ship apart to find the real one, and will find what looks like the real thing without careful examination/scanners.

Last season, they explained stupid decisions as Time Masters manipulations. To which I noted, "fine, but what happens if the writers continue writing the characters stupid?"

Dark Archive

GreenDragon1133 wrote:
2) Jax, shoot him in the leg. Its not fatal - especially if you take him back to the Waverider - and he can't take the stick.

Exactly. He kept talking, and I was wondering why either Jax didn't shoot him in the leg, or Sara didn't bludgeon him into unconsciousness with one of those collapsible staffs that appear when she needs them.

In either case, it made no sense at all that they stood around chatting until the troops showed up, basically letting him have the spear-fragment.

But that seems to be an artifact of the episodic nature of the show. Similarly the Legion of Doom did nothing to actually kill the creature chasing Thawne. They knew their own plan, and could have stood in a position to cut the thing into pieces as it flew backwards into the vault, shot it a bunch of times as it hit the wall and was stunned and not moving, or left explosives in the vault (jury-rigged from one of their space zap guns, if nothing better could be arranged?), or done something more clever than I can think of in 10 seconds, but no, nothing.

Every (bad) decision seems to be written to pad out the season and keep characters around for another 10 episodes, and nothing from getting accomplished except in tiny increments.

I'd like a few more 'done in one' episodes, to break up the monotony of the 'we can't actually do anything intelligent this episode, because we've got another fifteen episodes to meander around aimlessly before the finale, when, crunched for time, we inexplicably do nothing different or clever, but win anyway.'


I'm not sure they could actually do any significant injury to the Black Racer. Otherwise, total agreement. And it is a problem that plagues all four shows (and probably quite a few others where the show has a seasonal arc, rather than episodic stories).

It does seem SHIELD is better in this regard, with missions that are episodic, that a part of a larger objective. I keep hoping Berlanti and co. will try that method. Focus less on a big bad that shows up in September and can't be defeated until May, and more on smaller stories, that happen to tie together.

Or pull Buffy season 6, where the apparent big bad never really panned out, and then the real big bad comes out of nowhere in the final episodes.


GreenDragon1133 wrote:

I'm not sure they could actually do any significant injury to the Black Racer. Otherwise, total agreement. And it is a problem that plagues all four shows (and probably quite a few others where the show has a seasonal arc, rather than episodic stories).

It does seem SHIELD is better in this regard, with missions that are episodic, that a part of a larger objective. I keep hoping Berlanti and co. will try that method. Focus less on a big bad that shows up in September and can't be defeated until May, and more on smaller stories, that happen to tie together.

Or pull Buffy season 6, where the apparent big bad never really panned out, and then the real big bad comes out of nowhere in the final episodes.

Willow *joy shivers*


Even if they could do any significant damage to the Black Racer, why would they want to? It's the only thing that gives them any leverage over Thawne.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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GreenDragon1133 wrote:

So, on rewatch:

3) The Legion of Doom wants the stick, and will get onboard to take it. Why not make a look-alike, and put it someplace it might logically be hidden. Then put the real one inside random bulkhead. That way, they literally have to tear the ship apart to find the real one, and will find what looks like the real thing without careful examination/scanners.

We don't know Sara didn't do exactly this and is keeping it a secret from the rest of the team. She's sneaky enough to pull something like that off.


I also agree with Jack that having leverage over Thawne via Black Flash is good for Malcolm and Damien.

Also I did wonder but I suspected that Sara didn't feel the need to go after the piece when there's two other pieces. Plus you know, they have the compass.


As a fan of Arthurian Legend, this was pretty ballsy out awesome.
I kind of wish they had stayed in 3000, but going back Camelot and having all the great DC hits along with Ray geeking out. Very cool.

I guess Rip still has more tricks up his sleeve. I do wonder why he's sticking with the Legion after they basically crapped all over him.


Brain Rewiring.

Ray was finally awesome for a change.

The rest of the episode was underwhelming.

Sword in the stone - no problem, not even the slightest. I completely disagree with Sara's opinion of the act. If she had at least seemed strained it might have constituted impressive.

Guinevere. Not even a single surprise.

No one thought about the fact that Rip might still have access to Gideon? Again, not a surprise.

Stargirl indicated the spear was split in four. Huh? Why has every other reference said three?

Dr. Mid-Nite in the future - clever way to get the name Camelot:3000. (Ok so two good things in the episode). Did beg the question what superteam exists in that future?

Also why Damien Darkh and not Malcolm Merlyn? Speaking of, did Damien have triple pneumonia and a sudden case of arthritis? He took on League of Assassin level swordsmen perviously, but he was on equal terms with a guy who never used one before in his life?


Green,

Couple of responses to your questions (I also agree with the are you stupid letting Rip still have access to Gideon.)

I thought Vixen doing the lifting was good since she had to call ALL the animals, not just one or two. So that was impressive.

Guin was a little surprising but only in the sense I didn't see Lancelot.

As for the four/three thing, it might just be a writing error. I dunno.

I do know spears work better in three pieces than four. It is known.

In the year 3000? My guess? None.

I'm guessing that Malcolm didn't want to catch a cold or get wet. He's not fond of dirt you know.

As for Darkh's fight with Ray, I think it helped that Ray had his ATOM suit on, and thus able to fight SLIGHTLY better. Plus I'm pretty sure he had time to spare with Sara a couple times before.

Liberty's Edge

I wasn't fond of yesterday's episode for a number of reasons.

*Ray put the whole of reality at risk for what? Because he's a fan of Arthurian legend? Because he wants to swing a glowing sword around? Ugh.

*Why is Darkh always portrayed as a goon? Was he pulled from time before he got his magical powers? This was a man that had the means to bring about nuclear apocalypse not too long again. Again, ugh.

*"We're not killers". You kill people ALL THE TIME. When it's nazis, or russians, or future-cops, you have no problem killing people in droves. Your resume lists your occupation as 'ASSASSIN'.

*I'm all for Sarah embracing her sexuality but if it'd been a man that was flirting with all of history's ladies, there'd be cries of misogyny left and right. In any case the last scene with Guinevere was cringe. Why?

*Why wouldn't they assume Rip still has command over the ship? Why wouldn't they ask Gideon about that? Why are all the characters consistently stupid?


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Feral,

I think he wanted to prove he was more than just some half ass inventor guy. But I get why you might be upset at him putting reality at risk while fighting with the scrub league knights. I mean if they had just let FIRESTORM show up, they might have only had to worry about a few things. Maybe.

I think Darkh's goon-ish is kind of new but also the fact while he's good at magic, his magic comes from ITEMS, not necessarily skill.

Yes and I kill goblins all the time. That doesn't mean I want to keep killing goblins to save the kingdom. Well maybe not always...

I think it was more for the fact her last name is Lance, and you know. But I get why you feel slightly annoyed by it. I just don't mind.

But yes the dumb factor was STRONG there.


Another question, Constantine (the series) is part of the Arrowverse. Didn't he reference Merlin? So apparently at some point, she develops magic, and possibly a sex change?

The Sarah/Quinevere thing. Why is it this show constantly wants to throw "look we're gay" in our faces? Flash has a gay supporting character - and his defining trait is he's the captain. Arrow has a gay character, his defining traits include being nerdy, a techie, kinda empathetic. Supergirl, despite the decision to take a character previously established as straight and go another way, has been really good about it.

Let's compare this week's Supergirl to Legends. One had a lesbian couple dealing with relationship issues. Just like couples do. The other had a 'surprise' twist, and a kiss for shock value.

If you want to show that non-straight people are normal, and that they exist, and that there isn't anything wrong with it, which one accomplishes your goal?


Good God, the actress playing Stargirl is terrible. To call her acting wooden insults wood. Damp cardboard, perhaps.


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Feral wrote:

I wasn't fond of yesterday's episode for a number of reasons.

*Ray put the whole of reality at risk for what? Because he's a fan of Arthurian legend? Because he wants to swing a glowing sword around? Ugh.

*Why is Darkh always portrayed as a goon? Was he pulled from time before he got his magical powers? This was a man that had the means to bring about nuclear apocalypse not too long again. Again, ugh.

*"We're not killers". You kill people ALL THE TIME. When it's nazis, or russians, or future-cops, you have no problem killing people in droves. Your resume lists your occupation as 'ASSASSIN'.

*I'm all for Sarah embracing her sexuality but if it'd been a man that was flirting with all of history's ladies, there'd be cries of misogyny left and right. In any case the last scene with Guinevere was cringe. Why?

*Why wouldn't they assume Rip still has command over the ship? Why wouldn't they ask Gideon about that? Why are all the characters consistently stupid?

* Honestly, I could relate something fierce with Ray this time. I'd have probably done the same thing. Actually get knighted and offered a seat at the round table? Given a chance to make legends real? Yeah... to heck with 'logic' and 'realism'... sometimes people do dumb things for good reasons... of all their time travel screw ups, that bothered me the least.

*AGREED!! I was wondering the same thing this episode. Have we SEEN Dahrk do any magic since teaming up with Thawne??? I mean... he's still got that immortality thing going on, but where is the thing that actually makes him a THREAT?? He's really being portrayed as just a snarky member of the league of Assasins... and the LOD already has one of those... and so do the legends!

*ROFL!!! YES!!! Worst time travlers ever have been murdering throughout history. I was very glad to hear Stein call her out on that. Though in this episodes alone they dropped a TON of bodies!! Though it probably wasn't AS bad since techniquely Camelot was an Abberation anyway....

*I agree it's getting REALLY annoying to me too. At least she's consistent I guess... She's never met a queen she didn't go after... O.o and now that I typed that... we can add Ollie to that list!!

*I couldn't figure out why he's in a cell?? He should have been forcefully drug into the ship, strapped to the medi-chair and had Gideon run a bioscan and figure out what they did to his brain. Something ain't right there...

Liberty's Edge

Of course, the 'Rip still controls Gideon' thing also introduces a bit of retroactive idiocy on his part...

A few episodes ago Rip spent hours searching the ship, torturing people for information, hunting Jackson, et cetera... rather than simply saying, "Gideon, where did Jackson hide the spear fragment?".

It was in Rip's office. She has sensors there. She would have known.


The ship was shut down. He couldn't ask Gideon until Ray turned the power on.


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Green makes an excellent point CB. If the ship hadn't been off, then yes.

Also XP for Phantom for that pun about queens and Sara.


Feral wrote:


*Why is Darkh always portrayed as a goon? Was he pulled from time before he got his magical powers? This was a man that had the means to bring about nuclear apocalypse not too long again. Again, ugh.

Remember that 90% of his magic came from that totem thing they found on Lian Yu. He's been pulled from a time a good 70 odd years before that things was discovered since IIRC this is the Darkh from 1930-something.


Sun,

I also thought he no longer had said totem anyway.


I thought he was from the 1980s. Still prior to the totem...


I'd like to see him use more of the other 10%... something had to freak out Constantine when he heard the man's name. Especially since he has a whole house full of idols and totems that he's taken away from people too dangerous to have them.


Phantom,

I'm assuming it's because Darkh had like some powerful totems, not necessarily skill in the "dark arts."

I mean does he strike you as a Felix Faust kind of spellcaster?


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Phantom,

I'm assuming it's because Darkh had like some powerful totems, not necessarily skill in the "dark arts."

I mean does he strike you as a Felix Faust kind of spellcaster?

He did in his Arrow season... not so much since. Even the totem was introduced later as a weakness... before that it was wave a hand and stop an arrow in midflight, snap your fingers and disappear.

He's had over 100 years to be accummalating cool stuff, and even if he doesn't have the idol, or actually hasn't gotten it yet as it were... he should still have SOMETHING that he's researched or acquired to give him that kind of 'wet yourself' street cred. If I remember correctly, Ollie asked Constantine about Darhke and the only advice he had was 'run away'. Not, "without the idol he's powerless'... or 'It's not for you, I'll have to take care of it...' but 'Get out of town and don't look back!' And if it was really the same idol as in the flashback and not a companion piece or something... He could only have had that a couple years at most.


Favorite of the CW shows this week. Star girl as Merlin pretty weird especially since Merlin is already establish in DC. created Etrigan and there is the whole Morgan lefey thing.

I like the lancelot thing.

I think the glowy sword might have been distracting for Dahrk. the whole hmm better not let the graze me or it could be bad.


Vidmaster7 wrote:

Favorite of the CW shows this week. Star girl as Merlin pretty weird especially since Merlin is already establish in DC. created Etrigan and there is the whole Morgan lefey thing.

I like the lancelot thing.

I think the glowy sword might have been distracting for Dahrk. the whole hmm better not let the graze me or it could be bad.

Even wierder, since Constantine was intending to bring Etrigan/Jason Blood in eventually.


I guess it could all be fixed with...mmmm... *pinky to side of lip* time travel.


Yeah, Stargirl even admitted that she created this in response to the legends... There's no guarantee that she HAD to have created the legends in the first place. There could be another Camelot floating around somewhere. Communication wasn't awesome back then and there is a lot of time to play with.

Alternatively there is always Earth-2 Camelot... or Supergirl's Camelot.


true I think Arrows earth is actually pretty far from the DC most of us know I think super-girls is a lot closer.


Vidmaster7 wrote:
true I think Arrows earth is actually pretty far from the DC most of us know I think super-girls is a lot closer.

Yeah, I got that impression when Earth-2 had the flying cars and gorilla cities and earth 1 had boring old reality... They're still letting the fun stuff exist... but just making it harder to get there.


I'm betting Earth-12 is where Camelot and Magic hang out a lot. But I could be wrong.

Regardless, Magic people exist in Earth-1. I just guess they didn't have Merlin Merlin hanging out that much.


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An Evil Rory well I guess evil Rory would be regular Rory. XD The dialogue in this one is golden.


It wasn't my favorite episode but seeing them restore Rip to his normal self thanks to Gideon (who clearly loves her Captain.) was a highlight.


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I'm happy anytime someone actually thinks like a Time-Traveler. Kudos to Ray this time around. Now if only the actual HISTORIAN can keep his head in the game...

Dark Archive

I'm increasingly feeling like there's too many people on the Waverider, and since the writers seem to have to come up with stupid excuse after stupid excuse why Stein and Jax have to be separated so that they can't go Firestorm, I'm kind of ready for both of them to go away now, along with Rip, who has been far more interesting as a foe than a Captain, IMO.

I like the new kids, Steel and Vixen, I love Sara, Mick's just fun to have on the team, and Ray's tolerable, as long as he doesn't talk... I feel like the show would work fine with just them.


I do think Set, Firestorm being on this team of mostly non-metahumans does detract a good bit from the fact they're supposed to be guarding the timestream.

That and the fact Firestorm is HEAVILY under-used.

But I think that's what season 3 is for. IE we'll get a few new faces and maybe the new ones get wiser.

Dark Archive

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Thomas Seitz wrote:
But I think that's what season 3 is for. IE we'll get a few new faces and maybe the new ones get wiser.

I dunno, it seems like getting wiser might be unbelievably out of character for some, by this point.

I did kind of scratch my head when Ray 'Comic Relief Who Always Does the Wrong / Whacky / Impulsive Thing**' Palmer offered some potentially good advice to the historian about history, since it seemed like both of them were terribly out of character for that scene to even happen. :)

**(Despite Having Once Been a Super-Genius With Multiple PHDs Who Ran a Successful Multi-National Company That Even *Felicity* Couldn't Run As Well As He Did...)


Set,

Hey I can HOPE they get wiser alright?

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I just noticed that Legends of Tomorrow has a shorter season than the other arrowverse shows this year. Season finale is March 28th - only 3 episodes left.

I guess with them being out of the normal time stream there's no harm not having the shows be in sync all season long, but depending on what happens in various season finales, it could be weird if there's spillover from one show to the next.


Joel,

I doubt there will be that much spill over. There might be a little IF Savitar some how messes things up for Eobard and the crew. But that seems...unlikely.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Joel,

I doubt there will be that much spill over. There might be a little IF Savitar some how messes things up for Eobard and the crew. But that seems...unlikely.

You're probably right, but if Sarah kills Darhk early in his timeline, that could cause Laurel not to die, or if Barry changes something that could have flashpoint like impacts (though most likely those would happen next season).

Also, I'm sure the Spear of Destiny will get reunited, and it sounds like it can basically do anything. Maybe that's how Captain Cold comes back...


I'm sure they will bring Cold back. I'm not so sure on Laurel, since they just introduced another Dinah.


I don't think the writers are prepared to deal with a full-powered know what hes doing firestorm. Dudes pretty top tier in power compared to ... Yeah compared to everyone else.
Plus their probably spending his usual fire budget on the flesh of steel budget.

P.S. Also none of their big villains this season can deal with him. except maybe reverse flash with some sort of tornado thing. He can fly and touching him i,m pretty sure can give you third degree burns and maybe cancer.


Joel,

It's a potent artifact no qwestion. Whether it brings back Cold...unclear.

Green,

I'm with you we already have our Black Canary. Just not the one related to Laurel and Sara.

Vid,

I dunno. I think Eobard has plenty of experience to handle most super heroes. Super speed powers and attachment to the Speed Force, (or at least knowledge of it) make him a pretty dangerous foe, even for Firestorm. I do agree that he's easily an A-lister, certainly worthy of being on the Justice League level or Superman level at times.


Now I'm forgetting... but didn't flash call in some help at the end of season 2 against 'the man in yellow'... I thought Firestorm was in that group, but it may have just been GA and Atom... It would have been Ronnie, and I don't remember him doing anything spectacular... but I think Thawne shut him down somehow.

Also, I'm constantly astonished by the reaction to Laurel's death. I spent 3 years defending her as 'not that bad...' while people railed about how she was the worst thing in the CW/Arrowverse franchise.. Until she died now suddenly they want her back O.o

Liberty's Edge

phantom1592 wrote:

Now I'm forgetting... but didn't flash call in some help at the end of season 2 against 'the man in yellow'... I thought Firestorm was in that group, but it may have just been GA and Atom... It would have been Ronnie, and I don't remember him doing anything spectacular... but I think Thawne shut him down somehow.

Wouldn't that be the episode where Ronnie sacrificed himself to destroy a singularity which was collapsing all of the multiverse in on itself?

Other than that... no nothing particularly 'spectacular'. He helped Barry distract Thawne long enough for Oliver to shoot him with some kind of 'knock out arrow' and that was it.


So this week's episode mad the feels and the sad.

Especially since Nate loses his Grandpa and probably now his squeeze.

Thawne proves he can science. Just not so much in fighting a guy in zero gravity and an Iron Man suit.

Rip is apparently adjusting to the fact the Team is working despite his best intentions.

Also, never take a ship into an meteor field.


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I don't see how Thawne couldn't use superspeed in 0-g. He can still move his arms and legs fast and paddle himself through the air. He can still super-vibrate his arm and cut Ray like plasmatorch through butter. If he can just touch a wall he should be able to bounce off like mad.

But for some reason his speed doesn't work.

*comicbooklogiccomcibooklogiccomicbooklogic. OOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM*

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