Hello guys, I am a recent pathfinder player, although I have played D&D 3.5 for a long time.
The situation is as follows, my DM is putting up a construct which is colossal in size, and has 80AC and have around 1000hp.
I am playing a rogue with the Knife master archetype, and have true crystalline diamond daggers (so I ignore AC from normal armors, natural and deflection) but I need to bypass de rest of the armor, (since it is a construct I cannot inflict Sneak Attaks on it) so I need to hit him as much as I can.
Any advices?
thanks in advance!!
touch attacks
Maybe you could climb into it and start using Disable Device? Perhaps it's not meant to be dealt with directly.
would like to note that construct has the sort of AC that the gods avatars used to have in 3.5 Forgotten Realms. Hope this is a high level game. But can we say true strike and buffs out the backside. Anything and everything from bless on up, being so large, your party can likely (hopefully is terrain is a factor in your GM's games) find somewhere somewhat safe to enact those buff, and then hit the thing hard as you can. As Lamontius notes, its touch AC is also likely beyond horrid, so that is a good one to also try for.
Thanks guys, unfortunatelly for me being a rogue cannot make touch attacks, although we have a monk in the party so he is fine.
We lack of cleric an mage sadly, so the buffs are off the page as well.
I should need to rely on sneak the construct. (need to find out how though hehe, so I will read about it)
As for the terrain, we have the chance to strike it flying and there is a plateau nearby.
I guess I need to rely on the monk and the alchemist in the party to keep hitting it and then I hit it as hard as I can....and wish for the best hehe
Thanks a lot guys ;)
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What level are you? Unless it's something crazy like 40+ you have no hope of hitting that construct except on a 20, even with insane buffs.
The fact that the DM even told you it has AC80 is probably meant to be a giant clue bat to the face that says "Don't fight it normally!"
Even Cthulhu only has 774 HP and 49 AC, and he literally has domains and can be worshiped by clerics to gain power!
Your best bet is indirect tactics, like tricking him into falling into a chasm of lava, or recruiting your favorite Kaiju to fight him for you. Not even a golem would be able to do anything about the 20d6 of force damage put out by Mogaru (aka Godzilla-but-our-lawyers-made-us-change-the-name-of-this-mob-so-we-wouldnt- get-sued).
Either that or you're playing a super crazy campaign and I wouldn't even know where to start.
I have to agree with StabbittyDoom, this does not sound like something you are meant to destroy with standard combat.
If it was me and it wasn't a high level game, I would just flat out ask your DM if he is expecting us to find some other method.
If he replies with "No you are supposed to fight it." my next question would be about his sanity.
with my daggers I can bypass armor natural and deflection as well as regular, the ony kinds od armor that I cannot take away is dodge and any special kind besides those.
for example to a foe with 30ac (10 + dex 5 + armor 5 + deflection 5 + natural 5) I can hit him as if he has only 15ac (10+dex)
So for me instead of 80, it has less (dont know exactly how much)
but I needed to check if there was a better way to hit the huge pile of #½~@!
Thanks guys, unfortunatelly for me being a rogue cannot make touch attacks, although we have a monk in the party so he is fine.
By chance, are you operating under the false impression that "touch attack" means attacking with no weapon?
A touch attack is any kind of attack that can do damage without having to punch through the target's armor. Many spells are touch attacks where the caster can just gently run a finger tip across the target's armor and release the full effect of the spell.
Some touch attacks can be done at range, such as magical rays.
There are other kinds of touch attacks, but rogues and monks don't tend to have them unless they're using magic items.
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Are you sure about that 80 AC? As a GM, I often exaggerate things to intimidate/scare my players or to just use hyperbole to make a point. In other words, maybe this thing really only has an AC of 40 but the GM wanted you to be impressed so he exaggerated it for effect?
If the GM really created a construct with an impossible AC, then either:
a. he has no idea how this game works and has made a big mistake and now you have a monster that you CANNOT defeat
b. he has a plan for you to fight this by other means (find the off switch, figure out the command word to shut it off, etc.)
c. he expects you to leave and, maybe, come back some other day when you have the special mcguffin that beats this thing.
with my daggers I can bypass armor natural and deflection as well as regular, the ony kinds od armor that I cannot take away is dodge and any special kind besides those
Ahh, well, then you have no problem. This thing will have an AC of something like 5. You basically cannot miss it.
(Side note, your fancy daggers basically give you a TOUCH ATTACK every time you use them)
I suggest getting Greater Invisibility so the monster cannot easily attack you, maybe darkness or some other magic or condition that causes it to have a miss chance against you, then get up close and personal. Ask the monk to flank with you so you can sneak attack it. Then tear into it with your touch attack daggers as fast as you can, doing full sneak attack damage with every hit.
By chance, are you operating under the false impression that "touch attack" means attacking with no weapon?
Not at all, I know touch attacks are made several ways, but in this case, as rogue I have no item to do them , no magic to cas and no way Im gonna hit that thin barehanded having no skills at that.
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Are you sure about that 80 AC? As a GM, I often exaggerate things to intimidate/scare my players or to just use hyperbole to make a point. In other words, maybe this thing really only has an AC of 40 but the GM wanted you to be impressed so he exaggerated it for effect?
Not sure, but my GM tends to build strange kind of things....
So it can be several ways, as you posted, maybe no fighting it, maybe figure something to power off the thing or maybe find something to come back later....but I needed to check if there was a way to fighting it, in case my GM had a lot of vodka for breakfast and wants us to fight it.
Blake is saying that Monks don't normally make Touch attacks either. Unarmed =/= Touch.
Not at all, I know touch attacks are made several ways, but in this case, as rogue I have no item to do them , no magic to cas and no way Im gonna hit that thin barehanded having no skills at that.
By chance, are you operating under the false impression that "touch attack" means attacking with no weapon?
Hitting with your bare hands is NOT a touch attack. Even for monks.
However, it CAN be a touch attack if you have some kind of extra power, like a wraith can touch you with its bare hands and drain your energy, a wizard can touch you with his bare hands and electrocute you (if he cast Shocking Grasp), etc.
But just punching someone with your bare hands is a regular attack that must deal with the full armor of the target. Punching this construct is not going to work at all, not even for the monk.
And you DO have items to make touch attacks: your special magical daggers that ignore all armor, natural armor, and shield bonuses. THAT is the exact benefit that all touch attacks get. Yours even bypass deflection which makes them BETTER than a normal touch attack.
It sounds you guys have several unusual house rules in play. But if your daggers are as good as you say you are gonna cut that thing up no problem. But if it decide to attack you you May be dead.
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Thanks in advance to you all guys!
I will see whats happens and then come back and tell you how it went down. hehe
Have you tried using rope against it? Tie up its legs in a tangle, or get him pinned with multiple characters until you can tie him up?
Think outside the box. Try something besides "I hit it with my weapon."
Actually it occurs to me if one were fast and good enough at climbing, the construct should have no intelligence (we hope), perhaps just scaling the thing and running around on its head doing some damage could get it to try and crush you. Best case there is you then figure out some way to get the heck outa the way and hope it bashes its own head in for you. Sounds like concealment effects could go a long way to making the "killer gnat" idea work. Buts that is just my crazy idea.
It really may be that as many others point out, you possibly need a mcguffin, or this is the time to fall back on the better part of valor.
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Have you tried using rope against it? Tie up its legs in a tangle,
Now, if only we had a snow speeder with a tow cable...
LOL, would a griffon and some spider silk rope do?
Those stats look more like a "you need to find a way to break it, not fight it directly", so that hint earlier about trying to just punch a hole and get inside THEN wreak havoc is worth reminding.
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So, assuming it does not have some sort of insight or luck bonus to AC, all you have to do to hit it is not roll a 1. ...
other incentives not to roll a 1, your fancy daggers will shatter.
Thanks you guys, I will try to put some genius into work then and not only hit with daggers as somebody stated above hehe
I thought about using 2 wands, one for greater invi, and the other for Elemental Body III (earth elemental) and then being invi + attacking it from below I could take it flatfooted....even better, if the thing is a construct made of stone or dirt...I could attack it from within!
Lets see, what happens.
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Get a wand of:
Disable Construct
School transmutation; Level alchemist 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Target construct touched
Duration 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance no
You can make a melee touch attack to send a pulse into the target, interfering with the magic that endows it with life. If the construct fails its saving throw, it becomes helpless for the duration of the spell.
You can also try to find a spell that will damage a construct as a touch attack then make a wand of it. You can now do sneak attack damage with the wand. Consider a 1st level wand of corrosive touch. You can do 1d4 acid damage + sneak attack as a touch attack.
Just need a good UMD score.
Can it fly?
Can you fly?
Can you get your hands on an Instant Fortress?
Is this a Mythic Game? If not, I'm really going to want to know how your daggers ignore deflection bonuses.
Magic is your best bet, Hire some wizards to target it's touch AC. Third level Wizards can cast Scorching Ray which is 4d6 on a 3rd level wizard. Not bad on a touch attack. If its got immunity to Fire then go to magic missiles, if its got SR then don't fight it because 80 AC is functionally impossible to hit.
As a level 20 Barbarian who starts with 20 Strength, you can get +5 from leveling and +5 from a Manual of Gainful Exercise. Then a +6 Belt for a total of 36 Strength. Then you rage for +8 so you end up with 44 strength. 44-10/2= +17 to hit and damage. Then you have +20 to hit from being a 20th level Barbarian. Then you have a +10 weapon with an enchancement bonus of +5. EVEN THAT is only +42 to a D20 ROLL.
So lets make it Menacing and have you flank, that's +4 with another +2 from outflank. Still only +48 to a D20 roll. A Furious weapon adds another +2 and Bane gives you another +2. Thats +52, which means that you still cannot hit it except on a 20.
Throw the Barbarian on a flying mount and suddenly it has a +1 do to Height advantage, charge and it has another +2. Still +55.
This thing is NOT possible to hit conventionally, my suggestion is to check if its resistant to magic. If it isn't get someone charismatic to retrain into the Leadership feat and start gathering level 1 wizards. Have them cast Magic Missile, over and over and over again. 2-5 damage at a time.
Level one Wizards with at least 12 Int have 2 spells a day. With 25 or more Leadership you can have 135 level 1 Wizards cast Magic Missile at this thing twice. Thats 540 minimum damage for a day's work.
If its resistant to magic, run and keep running.
Those weapons cut through Armor and Deflection AC, not natural armor, unless they are homebrew, also if the construct has an enhancement bonus to AC your weapons need to have an equal bonus or the effect doesn't work. with a 5% chance of shattering every swing I would guess you have a bunch of non enchanted ones. Good luck with the fight.
Does your Rogue, or other party member possess a high level of use magic device and spellcraft skills? If so, invest in a control construct scroll. If it works, have fun controlling a massive AC 80 construct for as long as you can concentrate.