Silly caster think's she's a fighter


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First the big bold disclaimer

I know this is a bad idea.

I'm purposefully swimming against the current of the game. If you feel the need to tell me that I guess I can't stop you but you won't be contributing any new information.

So here's the goal. Single classed, full level 1-9 spell progression arcane caster that can hold their own in melee combat, with no more than 2 prep rounds and preferably just one.

I'm looking for options that support this.

So far I'm considering the Orc bloodline on either a straight sorcerer or a Blood Arcanist.

The obvious things I'll need
- Ways to boost my attack bonus
- Ways to boost my damage
- Good AC or a solid miss chance
- Higher than caster standard hit points or some form of damage mitigation.

Any non mythic first party source will be considered.

Custom magic items are not available.

Assume crafting time is available.

25 point buy

I'm more interested in options that work with weapons than natural attacks but either would be interesting.

This is easy to do at low levels and gets exponentially harder the higher level you get so the higher level the options the better.

All you hardcore system mastery guys that I usually end up arguing with do your worst!

Seriously though thanks in advance for any help you can give me doing this crazy thing.

- Torger


Also is here a way to edit thread title? that apostrophe is driving me nuts.

- Torger


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You will find all your answers within...

Also, remember that Dragon Disciple is a thing, and is absolutely hilarious for knocking around skulls as a pure Sorc.


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This isn't hard at all. In fact there so many ways to make this work well I wouldn't label it a bad idea. I personally will need something to narrow this down. Divine? Arcane? Prepared? Spontaneous?

My go to would be a battle mystery oracle or a crusader cleric as they are better at being martial than most arcane but arcane does work.


Renegadeshepherd wrote:

This isn't hard at all. In fact there so many ways to make this work well I wouldn't label it a bad idea. I personally will need something to narrow this down. Divine? Arcane? Prepared? Spontaneous?

My go to would be a battle mystery oracle or a crusader cleric as they are better at being martial than most arcane but arcane does work.

Arcane, 9th level spells, can go either way on prepared or spontaneous.

Would prefer to stick to the Sorc/Wizard spell list but am honestly not sure why, if there's something crazy for witch I'd be interested.

- Torger


chbgraphicarts wrote:

You will find all your answers within...

Also, remember that Dragon Disciple is a thing, and is absolutely hilarious for knocking around skulls as a pure Sorc.

Thanks or the link, will certainly be giving it a look through.

Have done Dragon Disciple before. Though I multi classed it with a bunch of martial type things so the caster aspect was pretty downplayed.

It would be a great place to start no question but I don't think I want to retread that ground. Thanks for the suggestion though :D

- Torger


I'd go sorcerer 6/eldritch knight 10/dragon disciple 4. Ill post the rest after I check one thing


Torger Miltenberger wrote:
Renegadeshepherd wrote:

This isn't hard at all. In fact there so many ways to make this work well I wouldn't label it a bad idea. I personally will need something to narrow this down. Divine? Arcane? Prepared? Spontaneous?

My go to would be a battle mystery oracle or a crusader cleric as they are better at being martial than most arcane but arcane does work.

Arcane, 9th level spells, can go either way on prepared or spontaneous.

Would prefer to stick to the Sorc/Wizard spell list but am honestly not sure why, if there's something crazy for witch I'd be interested.

- Torger

You could always go Arcanist. Seriously, that class is just amazeballs fun and insane.

You get spell progression like a Sorc and the number of spells as a Wizard.

Yeah, I know - sounds awful...

Oh, did I mention that you have access to an unlimited number of spells because you have a spellbook, and instead of Preparing Spells like a normal Wizard you instead Prepare your Spells Known for the day and then can spam spells like a Sorcerer, and you use the Wizard/Sorc Spell list?

Because you can, and it's a-MAZ-ing!

You also can choose to use an Arcane-Pool-like ability called Arcane Reservoir to replace spells you have prepared with spells in your spellbook as a FULL-ROUND ACTION if you have Quick Study, which you should, because it's basically the freakin' best option available to the class except for the ability to SUCK MAGIC OUT OF MAGIC ITEMS IN ORDER TO REFUEL YOUR RESERVOIR.

I love everything about the Arcanist - I never liked the Wizard, and the Arcanist is how I basically always wanted the Wizard to be, and it is AWESOME.


I recommend the brown-fur transmuter, getting a bigger bonus on your transmutations. And transmutations are where it's at for melee casters.


Battle sorcerer from 3.5 unearthed arcana.

Treat as an archetype.

Gets d8 HD, 3/4 BAB, light armor and martial weapon proficiency.

Gets fewer spells known and fewer spells per day.

I would take with orc bloodline and pickup the optimistic gambler trait. Eventually you will also want quicken SLA for the touch of rage ability.

Lantern Lodge

Well, if you throw in prestige classes:

Wizard 5, EK 10, Arcane Archer 5 would net you 17 levels spellcasting (9th level spells at level 19) and 17 BaB. Throw in some mounted combat feats, and a few polymorph spells to cast on a familiar and you'd be riding one heck of a mount while full attacking with a bow.

Though, to get to EK, you'd have to have 1 level of fighter, but you can retrain that as soon as you start EK (since it grants it's own pre-requisite) or as soon as you took a level of arcane archer.

In fact... with retraining...

2 Sorc, 8 Dragon Disciple, 10 EK is possible, just retrain your sorc levels as soon as you qualify for DD.


Just for reference there is something for witch. A scarred witch doctor has the health to be in battle, has hexes to weaken the opponent enough to bridge gap on full BAB, and full caster. I couldn't say melee was their strength but their ability to debuff an opponent to the point where just curl into a ball makes you effective much like a cleric based on madness domain. Don't even have to be a half orc.


Renegadeshepherd wrote:
I'd go sorcerer 6/eldritch knight 10/dragon disciple 4. Ill post the rest after I check one thing

Apologies (I hope you haven't put too much work into it already) but it was in my original post.

Torger Miltenberger wrote:
So here's the goal. Single classed, full level 1-9 spell progression arcane caster that can hold their own in melee combat, with no more than 2 prep rounds and preferably just one.

I do appreciate that you jumped right in to help but the single classed part is definitely something that I want. I don't want to have to wait levels for game changer spells like teleport. I want to be a pure caster no question, but also have stepping into melee not be a terrible choice. I don't even have to be amazing at it, just not be a total waste.

Which is why I prefaced with I know this is a bad idea.

- Torger


FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

Well, if you throw in prestige classes:

Wizard 5, EK 10, Arcane Archer 5 would net you 17 levels spellcasting (9th level spells at level 19) and 17 BaB. Throw in some mounted combat feats, and a few polymorph spells to cast on a familiar and you'd be riding one heck of a mount while full attacking with a bow.

Though, to get to EK, you'd have to have 1 level of fighter, but you can retrain that as soon as you start EK (since it grants it's own pre-requisite) or as soon as you took a level of arcane archer.

In fact... with retraining...

2 Sorc, 8 Dragon Disciple, 10 EK is possible, just retrain your sorc levels as soon as you qualify for DD.

You can't use a prestige class to meet it's own requirements. You can't retrain to have EK qualify for EK.


Let's get it out of the way… Orc or Half-Orc Scarred Witch Doctor. Full caster using Con. If you want to melee, it's nice to have hit points. No need to bother with mental stats.

For Sorcerer, you might consider Eldritch Scrapper. Bonus combat feats when you need 'em! You'll want to pick a bloodline based on its third-level ability, arcana, and spells. The Ghoul bloodline will give you some pretty snazzy natural armor, or you can swap it for the first level paralyzing claws. If you want to go regular summoner, take a look at the Nanite bloodline for the best boost to your weapons.

Don't mind getting a little help? Pick up an animal companion (Sylvan) or one of the combat familiar options. (Mauler for a battle-buddy or Protector for what will at later levels be +2 AC and a spare pool of hitpoints). In addition, your familiar can grant you +1 natural armor if you grab an armadillo. Don't want to be have the Arcane bloodline? No problem! Get a bloodline familiar. In any case, the Spirit's Blessing feat will let you grant your familiar or animal companion fast healing 1, DR 5/adamantine, or +2 Str.


Chess Pwn wrote:
I recommend the brown-fur transmuter, getting a bigger bonus on your transmutations. And transmutations are where it's at for melee casters.

Not gonna lie, haven't read it till now. The name put me off, but I'm reading it now.

- Torger

Lantern Lodge

Chess Pwn wrote:
FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

Well, if you throw in prestige classes:

Wizard 5, EK 10, Arcane Archer 5 would net you 17 levels spellcasting (9th level spells at level 19) and 17 BaB. Throw in some mounted combat feats, and a few polymorph spells to cast on a familiar and you'd be riding one heck of a mount while full attacking with a bow.

Though, to get to EK, you'd have to have 1 level of fighter, but you can retrain that as soon as you start EK (since it grants it's own pre-requisite) or as soon as you took a level of arcane archer.

In fact... with retraining...

2 Sorc, 8 Dragon Disciple, 10 EK is possible, just retrain your sorc levels as soon as you qualify for DD.

You can't use a prestige class to meet it's own requirements. You can't retrain to have EK qualify for EK.

My bad, will just have to wait until Arcane Archer levels then.


Druid.


QuidEst wrote:

Let's get it out of the way… Orc or Half-Orc Scarred Witch Doctor. Full caster using Con. If you want to melee, it's nice to have hit points. No need to bother with mental stats.

For Sorcerer, you might consider Eldritch Scrapper. Bonus combat feats when you need 'em! You'll want to pick a bloodline based on its third-level ability, arcana, and spells. The Ghoul bloodline will give you some pretty snazzy natural armor, or you can swap it for the first level paralyzing claws. If you want to go regular summoner, take a look at the Nanite bloodline for the best boost to your weapons.

Don't mind getting a little help? Pick up an animal companion (Sylvan) or one of the combat familiar options. (Mauler for a battle-buddy or Protector for what will at later levels be +2 AC and a spare pool of hitpoints). In addition, your familiar can grant you +1 natural armor if you grab an armadillo. Don't want to be have the Arcane bloodline? No problem! Get a bloodline familiar. In any case, the Spirit's Blessing feat will let you grant your familiar or animal companion fast healing 1, DR 5/adamantine, or +2 Str.

Eldritch scrapper is a neat archetype I never knew about thanks for the heads up. I can't see nanite bloodline being allowed but that first ability would indeed be nice.

The familiar stuff is interesting and will require a lot more reading, thanks for pointing me to it.

- Torger


Renegadeshepherd wrote:

Just for reference there is something for witch. A scarred witch doctor has the health to be in battle, has hexes to weaken the opponent enough to bridge gap on full BAB, and full caster. I couldn't say melee was their strength but their ability to debuff an opponent to the point where just curl into a ball makes you effective much like a cleric based on madness domain. Don't even have to be a half orc.

This is more what I'm looking for. Melee doesn't have to be great, just not the worst idea ever. (obviously I'd take great though)

and yea, love them hit points, great suggestion.

- Torger


I believe that rule was actually just altered to "you can't retrain a base class to a prestige class". It went through a few iterations.

Pick whichever caster you want-- Sorc works for the Str bonus, sure-- and just spam the hell out of the new Dimensional Weapon spell as soon as you can get it. Now you can actually hit things reliably past the lower levels.

Silver Crusade

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There are lots of effective ways to do an arcane caster who is also good with weapons. Is it your plan to get to close range with foes and swap full attacks, or do you intend to remain mobile and use something like reach tactics? The latter would allow you to cast a spell and sometimes also get a melee attack, while also preventing foes from delivering a full attack. Smart tactics can partially compensate for not being a full-BaB martial.

I suggest making your first round buff be defensive. Probably Mirror Image. You can skip the defensive buff if you don't feel threatened. Any offensive buffs will need to be done before combat starts. Look to things like Enlarge Person, Bull's Strength, etc.

My melee arcane caster is a strength-based Mystic Theurge. Whacky idea, but it's worked out pretty well. This guy is also a Cleric. You said you want to be single-classed arcane, so this is just FYI. Cleric domain Plant (Growth) is the fast path to martial divinity, domain Trickery provides a single mirror image as a Move action. This domain combination allows for the Round One sequence: 5' step -> Swift Action Enlarge Person -> Move Action Copycat -> Standard Action whack something that started 30' away -> almost guaranteed AoO vs same target. I.e. On Round One you cast two buff spells, one offensive and one defensive, then you generally get two powerful two-handed attacks on the foe before foe can attack you even once. Rinse and repeat, such that most foes will never be able to Full Attack.


kestral287 wrote:
Pick whichever caster you want-- Sorc works for the Str bonus, sure-- and just spam the hell out of the new Dimensional Weapon spell as soon as you can get it. Now you can actually hit things reliably past the lower levels.

I cannot find that spell online anywhere. Do you know where I could find a description or failing that a source?

- Torger


Sry missed the single class bit. New idea... Sylvan bloodline. With an animal companion as your friend you grab a number of teamwork feats so that the two of you output high amounts of damage. Grab eldritch heritage for orc bloodline, the two metamagic traits so that you can grab extend spell for those great buffs. You are going to need sorcerer for the number of spells anyway.

How do you about having that sidekick?


You really don't need to worry about BAB much when you primarily use natural attacks. Monstrous Physique is amazing. Even with just version 1, you can get 5 attacks (popobala). 7, if the Arach is a valid form. it just gets crazier from there.

It might be rough for the first 4 or 5 levels, but once you get good polymorphs, it's no problem.


Torger Miltenberger wrote:
kestral287 wrote:
Pick whichever caster you want-- Sorc works for the Str bonus, sure-- and just spam the hell out of the new Dimensional Weapon spell as soon as you can get it. Now you can actually hit things reliably past the lower levels.

I cannot find that spell online anywhere. Do you know where I could find a description or failing that a source?

- Torger

d20 has it, though it doesn't show up in the search bar-- you have to manually go through the spell lists. It's from the Melee Tactics Toolbox.

Basically: Swift action cast, resolve attacks against Touch for the round (except Force effects), if you use a Bludgeoning weapon they suddenly suck so don't do that.


Renegadeshepherd wrote:

Just for reference there is something for witch. A scarred witch doctor has the health to be in battle, has hexes to weaken the opponent enough to bridge gap on full BAB, and full caster. I couldn't say melee was their strength but their ability to debuff an opponent to the point where just curl into a ball makes you effective much like a cleric based on madness domain. Don't even have to be a half orc.

Scarred witch doctor is awesome. You can just pour all your points into Strength and Constitution, with maybe a bit for Dexterity on the side. Run around with a falchion or greataxe ('cause orc) and get some sweet natural armor.


Magda Luckbender wrote:

There are lots of effective ways to do an arcane caster who is also good with weapons. Is it your plan to get to close range with foes and swap full attacks, or do you intend to move around and use something like reach tactics? The latter would allow you to cast a spell and sometimes also get a melee attack, while also preventing foes from delivering a full attack. Smart tactics can partially compensate for not being a full-BaB martial.

I suggest making your first round buff be your defensive buff. Probably Mirror Image. You can skip the defensive buff if you don't feel threatened. Any offensive buffs will need to be done before combat starts. Look to things like Enlarge Person, Bull's Strength, etc.

My melee arcane caster is a strength-based Mystic Theurge. Whacky idea, but it's worked out pretty well. This guy is also a Cleric. You said you want to be single-classed arcane, so this is just FYI. Cleric domain Plant (Growth) is the fast path to martial divinity, domain Trickery provides a single mirror image as a Move action. This domain combination allows for the Round One sequence: 5' step -> Swift Action Enlarge Person -> Move Action Copycat -> Standard Action whack something that started 30' away -> almost guaranteed AoO vs same target. E.g. On Round One you cast two buff spells, one offensive and one defensive, then you generally get two attacks on the foe before foe can attack you even once.

Excellent question. I'll probably only get reach by way of increases to size category. That being said I'm definitely looking at increases to size category. Enlarge person will certainly be a go to for awhile.

Honestly I'm open to considering any tactics that might work.

I really like the idea of the strength based mystic theurge, isn't something I'll be doing for this character, but it's a very cool idea, well done.

- Torger


Renegadeshepherd wrote:

Sry missed the single class bit. New idea... Sylvan bloodline. With an animal companion as your friend you grab a number of teamwork feats so that the two of you output high amounts of damage. Grab eldritch heritage for orc bloodline, the two metamagic traits so that you can grab extend spell for those great buffs. You are going to need sorcerer for the number of spells anyway.

How do you about having that sidekick?

No worries, I wasn't thinking sidekick but am open to the idea as long as I'm not just hiding behind it but am up there kicking ass alongside (or flanking with) it. And given the suggestion of teamwork feats it sounds like that's what you're getting at. Great suggestion.

- Torger

Shadow Lodge

Orc poly sorcerer. Summon baddies and wade into battle as a giant with a large falcata. It's an awesome build with toughness manditory lol.


kestral287 wrote:
Torger Miltenberger wrote:
kestral287 wrote:
Pick whichever caster you want-- Sorc works for the Str bonus, sure-- and just spam the hell out of the new Dimensional Weapon spell as soon as you can get it. Now you can actually hit things reliably past the lower levels.

I cannot find that spell online anywhere. Do you know where I could find a description or failing that a source?

- Torger

d20 has it, though it doesn't show up in the search bar-- you have to manually go through the spell lists. It's from the Melee Tactics Toolbox.

Basically: Swift action cast, resolve attacks against Touch for the round (except Force effects), if you use a Bludgeoning weapon they suddenly suck so don't do that.

Huh, yea, that would do it, thanks for the heads up.

- Torger


Magda Luckbender wrote:

There are lots of effective ways to do an arcane caster who is also good with weapons. Is it your plan to get to close range with foes and swap full attacks, or do you intend to remain mobile and use something like reach tactics? The latter would allow you to cast a spell and sometimes also get a melee attack, while also preventing foes from delivering a full attack. Smart tactics can partially compensate for not being a full-BaB martial.

I suggest making your first round buff be defensive. Probably Mirror Image. You can skip the defensive buff if you don't feel threatened. Any offensive buffs will need to be done before combat starts. Look to things like Enlarge Person, Bull's Strength, etc.

My melee arcane caster is a strength-based Mystic Theurge. Whacky idea, but it's worked out pretty well. This guy is also a Cleric. You said you want to be single-classed arcane, so this is just FYI. Cleric domain Plant (Growth) is the fast path to martial divinity, domain Trickery provides a single mirror image as a Move action. This domain combination allows for the Round One sequence: 5' step -> Swift Action Enlarge Person -> Move Action Copycat -> Standard Action whack something that started 30' away -> almost guaranteed AoO vs same target. I.e. On Round One you cast two buff spells, one offensive and one defensive, then you generally get two powerful two-handed attacks on the foe before foe can attack you even once. Rinse and repeat, such that most foes will never be able to Full Attack.

I think that this type of build would work pretty well with a Spirit Whisperer Wizard (battle). You get a light version of Inspire Courage to buff you and your allies, and the ability to temporarily add Bane to your weapon.

You also get access to combat-useful hexes like this:

ACG wrote:

Battle Master (Ex):

The shaman makes an extra attack of opportunity each round. This ability stacks with the attacks of opportunity granted by the Combat Reflexes feat. At 8th level, the shaman gains the Weapon Specialization feat in a weapon of her choice as a bonus feat. At 16th level, the shaman gains the Greater Weapon Focus feat as a bonus feat, for the same weapon chosen for Weapon Specialization. The shaman doesn't need to meet the prerequisites of these feats.

Your familiar gets +2 bonus to natural armor, and unlike a Shaman, you can upgrade with the Improved Familiar feat. The Familiar Folio also gives you a lot of new options.

Silver Crusade

One path to big damage output, especially at low levels, is natural attacks - just have a plan to not die to the inevitable retributive Full Attack. One path that combines good damage output with strong defense is reach tactics with a longspear[/u]. Given your limited feats, perhaps avoid the more feat-intensive styles, like TWF and archery.

There are some really nifty things you can do with metamagic casting. For example, a [url="http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/metamagic-feats/rime-spell-metamagic"]Rimed Burning [Cold] Hands spell (or Frost Fall if you use ACG) entangles foes, which denies them the 5' step. This allows you to move to 10' distance, cast the spell on several foes, then get a guaranteed AoO if they want to move and single-attack you. I.e. You hit them with one spell and one attack, versus their single attack.


kestral287 wrote:
Torger Miltenberger wrote:
kestral287 wrote:
Pick whichever caster you want-- Sorc works for the Str bonus, sure-- and just spam the hell out of the new Dimensional Weapon spell as soon as you can get it. Now you can actually hit things reliably past the lower levels.

I cannot find that spell online anywhere. Do you know where I could find a description or failing that a source?

- Torger

d20 has it, though it doesn't show up in the search bar-- you have to manually go through the spell lists. It's from the Melee Tactics Toolbox.

Basically: Swift action cast, resolve attacks against Touch for the round (except Force effects), if you use a Bludgeoning weapon they suddenly suck so don't do that.

Here it is.


Torger Miltenberger wrote:
Renegadeshepherd wrote:

This isn't hard at all. In fact there so many ways to make this work well I wouldn't label it a bad idea. I personally will need something to narrow this down. Divine? Arcane? Prepared? Spontaneous?

My go to would be a battle mystery oracle or a crusader cleric as they are better at being martial than most arcane but arcane does work.

Arcane, 9th level spells, can go either way on prepared or spontaneous.

Would prefer to stick to the Sorc/Wizard spell list but am honestly not sure why, if there's something crazy for witch I'd be interested.

- Torger

I would offer witch on the following build:

Bloodrager 1
Witch (scarred witch doctor) 4
Evangelist 5 (push witch with it)
Eldritch Knight 10

You will have BAB +16, and con based casting. You will get ninth level spells (but only just barely). You saves are good, your skills are fine. You don't need much in any of the mental stats, so max your Con, and take as much strength as you can get.

Curse your enemies and then hit them with a big sword.


Scarred witch doctor tanks it up.

Sorcerer seems the most thematic since they fit a "don't need no book-lernin' don't really care about this magic stuff, just wanna fight" character.


Gisher wrote:
I think that this type of build would work pretty well with a Spirit Whisperer Wizard (battle). You get a light version of Inspire Courage to buff you and your allies, and the ability to temporarily add Bane to your weapon.

Also an archetype I hadn't read, thanks for pointing it out. Could be a good way to go.

- Torger


Ipslore the Red wrote:
Here it is.

Awesome, thanks much. 6th level is pretty high, but then it probably should be. Definitely something to work towards.

- Torger


Abraham spalding wrote:

I would offer witch on the following build:

Bloodrager 1
Witch (scarred witch doctor) 4
Evangelist 5 (push witch with it)
Eldritch Knight 10

You will have BAB +16, and con based casting. You will get ninth level spells (but only just barely). You saves are good, your skills are fine. You don't need much in any of the mental stats, so max your Con, and take as much strength as you can get.

Curse your enemies and then hit them with a big sword.

I do appreciate the build, looks like it would be fun and viable.

but as I said in the first post and at least once since I'm trying to go single classed.

I get why many are jumping on Eldritch Knight and Dragon Disciple and recommending them but it's just not what I'm going for.

Again I do very much appreciate the thought though.

- Torger

Scarab Sages

Beast-bonded witch using the level 10 ability to permanently take over the body of a Titan or something.


Polymorph effects are your friend. Keep that in mind.

The best way to be able to melee something at the low levels is to lower its defenses. At the lower levels, one of the most effective means of doing this is via spells that a wizard totes around anyway: Sleep, Color Spray, Hold Person, etc. Once they're unable to act, you can coup de grace them with inpunity.

Arcane spellcasters need Mage Armor at the low levels. It lasts a long time. Have it prepared. There are other solid spells for level 1 to consider if your focus is on melee combat: Shield (for when Mage Armor just isn't enough), Blurred Movement (you're going to move a lot at the low levels, probably, so this + some points invested in acrobatics = you can run around the battlefield pretty freely and have a 20% miss chance on you at level 1), Protection From Evil... If you want to go a bow route, you can have Gravity Bow at level 1 and at least put forth some nasty shots.

You know, there are some really good spells available to you from other classes' spell lists. So... Wouldn't it be good to have spells from those other classes available to you? Perhaps you should play a Samsaran wizard with the alternate racial trait that lets you do just that.

Picking Bard gets you useful spells like Gallant Inspiration while also casting certain spells (like Heroism) a spell level earlier. Picking Witch can actually get you a few divine-specific spells, including Cure spells if you want to have those as a backup. Picking Summoner lets you get Greater Invisibility as a 3rd level spell, so imagine being 5th level and wading into a fight with that up. Etc.

You sadly can't pick Cleric or Druid or Shaman, since those are all divine casters.

Hope something here helps.


Just go straight orc scarred witch doctor with a transformation patron. Max your strength and con, dump your int and cha, and polymorph yourself to huge numbers of natural attacks.

Honestly, I'm really digging this idea...


Melee Sorcerer WIP

That's a rough version of a guy I was considering for a home game. His stats aren't 25 (were rolled) and his gear needs some adjustments.

He could be functional and ready to rock in a single round of buffing, but two would be better.

One Round Only: Transformation, Quickened Touch of Rage, maybe Barroom Brawler as move for Dazing Assault

Round 1 of 2: Quickened Mirror Image, Transformation, maybe Barroom Brawler as move for Dazing Assault

Round 2 of 2: Orc bloodline level 15 ability for size increase, Quickened Touch of Rage

The main issue is that you are super dependent on Transformation, but it's not like you are really hurting for spells of that level or scrolls could be used. The spell costing 125 gold a pop is annoying though. Unfortunately to keep up for AC I invested in armor so he has a minor spell failure chance but no actual armor check penalty.


chaoseffect wrote:

Melee Sorcerer WIP

That's a rough version of a guy I was considering for a home game. His stats aren't 25 (were rolled) and his gear needs some adjustments.

He could be functional and ready to rock in a single round of buffing, but two would be better.

One Round Only: Transformation, Quickened Touch of Rage, maybe Barroom Brawler as move for Dazing Assault

Round 1 of 2: Quickened Mirror Image, Transformation, maybe Barroom Brawler as move for Dazing Assault

Round 2 of 2: Orc bloodline level 15 ability for size increase, Quickened Touch of Rage

The main issue is that you are super dependent on Transformation, but it's not like you are really hurting for spells of that level or scrolls could be used. The spell costing 125 gold a pop is annoying though. Unfortunately to keep up for AC I invested in armor so he has a minor spell failure chance but no actual armor check penalty.

Oh damn quicken spell like ability! good call.

This is super useful, and nice to see some numbers that don't look too shabby at higher level.

Thanks very much for sharing it.

- Torger


Inlaa wrote:
Picking Summoner lets you get Greater Invisibility as a 3rd level spell, so imagine being 5th level and wading into a fight with that up. Etc.

Somehow Greater Invisibility had escaped my mind entirely, thanks for bringing it up.

- Torger


Doing this single classed is... hard... I made this with multi classing a week ago. Ill post it here, and maybe you can get some ideas from it at least.

Bloodrager 1
Fighter 1 [Unbreakable archetype]
Skald 1
Witch 2 [Scarred Witchdoctor]

Half-Orc
25p build

STR 16
DEX 12
CON 17 +2 +1
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 8

FEAT
1. Amplified rage (+4 increase to Ragebonus) [Teamwork]
3. Fast healer (1/2 CON bonus to every incoming Healtick)
5. Mad Magic (Cast spells while raging)

Abilitys
1. Bloodrage, Bloodline Familliar [Aberrent tumor, Valet archetype], Bloodline, Fast Movement
2. Endurance, Diehard (From fighter lvl)
3. Bardic Knowledge, cantrips, inspired rage, raging song, scribe scroll
4. Constitution dependant, Hex scar, Fetish Mask, Scarshield, Patron (Transformation)
5. Hex

[Bloodrage 4+CON MOD] +8STR / +8CON, -2 AC

*Edit. This build is about surviving, You whack stuff with a 2 hander until you get form of dragon, to aid your whacking you debuff your targets with hexes and CURSE.

In the end game, if you continue with the feats which grant you DR and HP and so on. You chould end up with 5 attacks or so, with 50+ CON while buffed. your STR will be in the high 30s i suppose.


Quote:
Somehow Greater Invisibility had escaped my mind entirely, thanks for bringing it up.

No problem. Note I specifically say you can get it at 5th level with a Samsaran Wizard or Sorcerer or Witch. Summoners gain spell levels more slowly.

Still, a White Haired Witch, for example, with an inkling of Summoner spells, or a Sorcerer with the right bloodline yoinking a few Bardic spells, or the right kind of wizard, etc... Samsaran's just a great enabler of a race.


A fun straight progression might be to play as conjurer, teleportation subschool. Grab the DEX to damage feats and a rapier, buff yourself, throw on mirror image. Depending upon your GM's interpretation you may eventually be able to use shift with the dimension agility line when you can cast dimensional door.

In either event, your summons last so long that you often use them as buffs. You can balance between the casting and the fighting. The dex to damage feats will take up a lot, augment summoning would go well too. This kind of build works best in a party with a bard.

With high INT you'll also have excellent skills, enough spells for several great defensive buffs like stoneskin, displacement, mirror image. You'll also get useful transmutation spells. You can flit around the battlefield and get to any enemy you may be facing. The extra movement shift provides is invaluable; even if you cannot eventually take the dimensional agility ling.

All that and you're probably the strongest variety of caster in the game.


If you want a non-transformation option, a Witch with the Strength Patron gets Divine Favor & Power, Righteous Might, and eventually Giant Form. Divine Power and Fate's Favored is a pretty huge asset for melee, particularly since a Witch doesn't normally get Haste. Enlarge Person or Alter Self may not be the most thrilling polymorph spells, but they're still easy and cheap options.

While this approach lacks the ability to pack in multiple natural attacks, going in with a two-handed weapon, Divine Power and Power Attack is going to hit very hard twice per round. If you pick up Power Attack -> Cornugon Smash -> Hurtful, that's another potential strike per round even without a full attack. Prehensile Hair also tags on a natural attack - it isn't the strongest attack, but you can use it to throw pre-cast Frostbite (or Rime Frostbite...) onto things at reach, and it's hardly useless if you're running strong buffs already. Also, since you're able to use armor, Arcane Armor Training and a mithral kikko is a simple option for decent protection; you can also pick up a mithral light shield as well if you want, or make it a quickdraw shield with the Quickdraw feat for two-handing a weapon while using a shield.

While the witch doctor is pretty hard to beat for a melee witch thanks to the constitution thing, one potential alternate option - particularly if a savage Orc doesn't fit your desired theme - would be a Half-Elf Bonded Witch. Ancestral Arms can grab you any weapon you want - such as a falcata or fauchard - and Bonded gives you a Wizard style bond, either with your weapon for cheap DIY enhancement, or with an amulet for free Stoneskin once per day. Ironskin is an effective replacement for the Witch Doctor's bonus natural armor, and if you can hold out for Lesser Age Resistance, you can start out middle aged for the ability scores without the penalty.

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