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It's a 2nd-level spell. Agressive actions against the boss could afford the guards a new save every round. I know it's not RAW, because there are no rules written covering this, but that's how I'd consider ruling it as GM.
Also remember duration is Concentration, max 1 round/level: concentration has to be maintained by caster.
What can you do? Everything you normally could except what the spell says: violence. Guards under this effect can't attack. But they can go fetch other guards... calmly. Or stand between the big boss and the PCs to form a calm humanoid wall. But yes, the party can ignore them.
There is no quibbling over what a spell like Deep Slumber would do. How is this spell any different?
What is an aggressive action? It's the things those under the effects of the spell can't do. Any kind of violence. Such as a direct attack.
The point I am making here is that calm emotions spell is no more powerful or abusive than any other mass will save spell. In fact it is weaker in that regard since it doesn't completely turn off the opponents. By the calm emotions spells text, if the boss slaps one guard they all snap out of it.
But where calm emotions does shine is the removal of morale bonuses. Because barbarians are known for their Will saves.
Hi,
i'm interested at that line of description that says:
- "It also suppresses any fear effects"
and
- "While the spell lasts, a suppressed spell, condition, or effect has no effect"
It seems that this spell gives you temporary "immunity" to fear effects.
Is it correct to suppose that while this spell lasts, any Fear spells (such as Cause Fear or even Phantasmal killer) that are cast on the immediate next rounds don't affect you??
Waiting for replies and thanks
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Phantasmal Killer is an instantaneous effect, there is nothing to suppress. It doesn't negate spells and it doesn't block incoming effects.
If you were demoralized, Calm Emotions would suppress the demoralization effect from intimidate for the duration it is active.
If you fail a Scare saving throw, or find yourself near a dragon with Frightful Presence, calm emotions will suppress those effects for the duration it is active.
It does not give you immunity to fear effects that have an instantaneous effect, like Phantasmal Killer.
Also something to note, Calm Emotions is one of few spells that completely removes the Confused condition. Unbreakable Heart and Calm Emotions are the only two spells that can do so before you get to Heal. So if allies are confused you can cast calm emotions and immediately cease concentrating, liberating them from their condition while maintaining buffs.
I mostly agree, but I'm not sure about this line:
It seems that this spell gives you temporary "immunity" to fear effects.
What's the basis for this statement?
Ack, sorry, quoted the wrong line!
It does not give you immunity to fear effects that have an instantaneous effect, like Phantasmal Killer.
Also something to note, Calm Emotions is one of few spells that completely removes the Confused condition. Unbreakable Heart and Calm Emotions are the only two spells that can do so before you get to Heal. So if allies are confused you can cast calm emotions and immediately cease concentrating, liberating them from their condition while maintaining buffs.
Unbreakable Heart: target 1 creature; will suppress confusion for 1r/l, but unless the ally is acting normally, they must save against the spell.
Calm Emotions: Area 20' radius; will remove confused condition while you concentrate up to 1r/l.Heal: target 1 creature; will remove confused condition.
However, the Confusion spell lasts for 1r/l, and while it lasts imposes the confused condition. These other spells will help, but once they are done, the confusion comes back as an effect of this spell since they don't affect this spell.
/cevah
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... It also suppresses any fear effects and removes the confused condition from all targets.
Calm emotions completely removes the confused condition; you do not need to maintain concentrating on it after a creature is affected by it.
You're right about Unbreakable Heart, it doesn't remove the condition but it does suppress it for essentially the entire time.
Confusion doesn't do anything until the confused character has to roll. If an enemy casts Confusion in round 1 and the cleric casts calm emotions immediately after, all allies can accept the spell without needing to make a save against it. Allies who have already rolled and are doing anything that isn't "act normally" would have to roll to save, however.
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I once saw a PC run into frustrating helplessness thanks to a magic trap that had this spell on it.
He was invisible, then ran away due to a fear affect from an undead foe. Having identified the magic trap previously, he ran to it, activated it, then intentionally failed his saving throw.
...Unfortunately, he was invisible, which required a violent action - which he was now too ambivalent to perform - to stop. Since his undead foes had no way of seeing him, he was forced to watch the rest of the fight. It didn't occur to him to ask one of his allies to try to slap where he was, but I probably should've given him new saves while he watched violence happen to his allies.
... It also suppresses any fear effects and removes the confused condition from all targets.Calm emotions completely removes the confused condition; you do not need to maintain concentrating on it after a creature is affected by it.
True, but if you are under the Confusion spell, the confused condition comes back as soon as you stop concentrating on Calm Emotions. That is why I pointed out the Confusion spell's interaction.
/cevah
This spell causes confusion in the targets, ...
Once you stop concentrating on the Calm Emotions spell, it stops removing the imposed confusion condition. Afterwards, the Confusion spell reimposes the confused condition.
/cevah
So you are saying that an active confusion spell does not cause the confused state after calm emotions is over? Despite stating it does, as indicated by my quote?
Calm Emotions removes the condition, not the cause of the condition.
/cevah
That depends on whether the spells that come back are all spells suppressed or removed by Calm Emotions or just the suppressed ones.
But how would a removed effect come back?
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Oh! Okay, I see the argument Cevah is presenting now. That argument might hold some water if the confusion spell has a duration of concentration, but as it is once the spell is cast the confusion status is simply in effect for a number of rounds equal to the caster level.
I’m not familiar with another spell that has the same wording as calm emotions but just as an example, let’s say a character was hit by a ray of sickening which has a duration of minutes/lvl and had some way of removing that condition. The round following being hit by the ray, said character uses ability/spell/whatever to remove the sickened condition. By your logic, the following round (or however long the duration of that ability lasts, assuming it’s less than 1 min/lvl) the sickened condition comes back?
What is your definition of “remove” as compared to “suppress” in this game, Cevah? Because what you are suggesting is that nothing can end a condition caused by a spell, short of using dispel magic or entering an anti magic field, until that spell’s duration is over. The best you can do is suppress the effect.
Never mind effects like calm emotions that states clearly it removes confusion.
I think the spell confusion causes the confused condition, and the duration of the spell is how long that confused condition would last. It doesn't have the ability to reimpose the confused condition multiple times.
So, if you were affected by confusion and then by calm emotions, calm emotions should completely remove the effect and there would be no need to concentrate.
Otherwise, spells like Heal also wouldn't save you from the Confusion spell.
Heal says it immediately ends a list of conditions including confusion. If the confusion spell reimposes confusion for its duration then heal would remove it, and then the confusion affect would be reimposed by the confusion spell. Because heal removes the condition, and does nothing to the confusion spell.
So I can only conclude that Cevah's argument doesn't hold water, in my opinion.
The Confusion spell states the spell causes confusion, not makes you confused for the duration of the spell. If it were the latter, I would think it would be worded more as causes the target to be confused for 1r/l.
If you read it as only causing the confused state once when the spell lands, then the condition would be removed. But I do not read it that way, as the spell's wording is more like as long as the spell affects you, you are confused. Calm emotions removes the condition, not the spell.
Stinking Cloud also imposes a condition. Removing that condition once does not keep that spell from reimposing the condition if you remain affected by that spell.
/cevah
Ehh, rereading the confusion spell, I think Cevah's right on this. The spell doesn't just make the target confused when it comes into effect; the confused condition is the effect of the spell, and the spell (not the condition) has a duration of 1 round per level. If you suppress the spell or the condition, the character is fine, but once neither is suppressed, the character is once again confused.
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Ehh, rereading the confusion spell, I think Cevah's right on this. The spell doesn't just make the target confused when it comes into effect; the confused condition is the effect of the spell, and the spell (not the condition) has a duration of 1 round per level. If you suppress the spell or the condition, the character is fine, but once neither is suppressed, the character is once again confused.
Then heal also does not do anything to deal with confusion. Both heal and calm emotions have the same wording when it comes to removing the confused condition.
Eh?
Heal enables you to channel positive energy into a creature to wipe away injury and afflictions. It immediately ends any and all of the following adverse conditions affecting the target: ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, poisoned, sickened, and stunned. It also cures 10 hit points of damage per level of the caster, to a maximum of 150 points at 15th level.
This spell automatically suppresses (but does not dispel) any morale bonuses granted by spells such as bless, good hope, and rage, and also negates a bard's ability to inspire courage or a barbarian's rage ability. It also suppresses any fear effects and removes the confused condition from all targets. While the spell lasts, a suppressed spell, condition, or effect has no effect. When the calm emotions spell ends, the original spell or effect takes hold of the creature again, provided that its duration has not expired in the meantime.
Those are very different to me. The former "wipe[s] away"/"immediately ends" injury, afflictions, and conditions. The latter suppresses them. The confused condition is removed, but the spell affecting the creature is not--the last sentence states explicitly that once calm emotions wears off, the original spell comes back into effect. Interpreting the inline use of the word "remove" as a drive-by exception to the rest of the spell's effects seems a bit of a stretch to me.
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Heal ends the confused condition, not the confusion spell. Calm emotions removes the confused condition. Suppressed conditions and spells take hold again after calm emotions ends. Suppressed is not the same as removed, otherwise the sentence would read:Eh?
Heal enables you to channel positive energy into a creature to wipe away injury and afflictions. It immediately ends any and all of the following adverse conditions affecting the target: ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, poisoned, sickened, and stunned. It also cures 10 hit points of damage per level of the caster, to a maximum of 150 points at 15th level.This spell automatically suppresses (but does not dispel) any morale bonuses granted by spells such as bless, good hope, and rage, and also negates a bard's ability to inspire courage or a barbarian's rage ability. It also suppresses any fear effects and removes the confused condition from all targets. While the spell lasts, a suppressed spell, condition, or effect has no effect. When the calm emotions spell ends, the original spell or effect takes hold of the creature again, provided that its duration has not expired in the meantime.Those are very different to me. The former "wipe[s] away"/"immediately ends" injury, afflictions, and conditions. The latter suppresses them. The confused condition is removed, but the spell affecting the creature is not--the last sentence states explicitly that once calm emotions wears off, the original spell comes back into effect.
It also suppresses any fear effects and the confused condition from all targets.
There is zero reason for removed to be included in the sentence if it is supposed to be treated the same as suppressed.
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Confusion:
Range medium (100 ft. +10 ft./level)
Targets all creatures in a 15-ft radius burst
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes
Two things to point out here:
First, the area effect is a burst, as opposed to a spread like cloudkill. A burst implies that once the effect happens, there is nothing else lingering in that area. See Bless, Channel Energy, or a myriad of other abilities that do the thing when the action is done but has no effect for creatures who enter the area of effect after the action.Second, the duration states that the effect is 1 round per level. It does not require active concentration by the caster, and as I already established there is no lingering area effect, the spell is effectively instantaneous; the only reason it's not is because it has an effect that does not end after the action to cast it is done.
This spell causes confusion in the targets... (Description of the confused condition)
This states that the spell, when it is cast, inflicts the confused condition on targets that fail the save. We know from the effect portion that the confused condition lasts for 1 round/level.
And that's it. The spell has no more interaction or influence on the target other than what has already happened. The spell does not have the power to re-inflict the confused condition because the spell is no longer being cast. The spell is no longer being cast and no longer has any hold on the initial target.Now, the Calm Emotion spell "...removes the Confused condition from all targets. The Heal spell "...immediately ends any and all of the following adverse conditions affecting the target: ... confused..."
I don't know why anyone would think that there is any difference between ends and removes other than word preference in this context. They mean the same thing, and the argument Cevah presents suggests that heal would not end confusion if the source is from the spell. Which is asinine to me.
And something else I just thought of. Say a person fails their save vs paralysis by Hold Person, which has a duration of rounds/level. They have a lesser Freedom talisman (or someone casts freedom of movement on that target in the same round) and are no longer paralyzed. When this happens, an enemy casts dispel magic and succeeds at the caster level check to dispel freedom of movement. Is that person all of a sudden paralyzed again? The answer is pretty clearly 'no' to me. What you're suggesting changes how many duration spells interact with counters and goes beyond just the confusion spell and calm emotions.
Ehh, rereading the confusion spell, I think Cevah's right on this. The spell doesn't just make the target confused when it comes into effect; the confused condition is the effect of the spell, and the spell (not the condition) has a duration of 1 round per level. If you suppress the spell or the condition, the character is fine, but once neither is suppressed, the character is once again confused.
What's the duration of the confusion condition imposed by the Confusion spell, then?
To reconcile this, I think it'd be useful to look at the save for confusion. It's Will negates.
If a creature is within the area of confusion when it is cast, that creature has to make a save to resist it. Upon success, the creature is unaffected for the spell's duration. They do not need to save again each round, because the spell's ability to apply to them has been negated.
With heal, I see pretty much the same logic; that spell removes the originally applied condition entirely, putting the creature into the same state as a creature who made the initial save. The condition is removed, and while the confusion spell's duration continues, the target of heal doesn't get re-confused for the same reason a creature making their initial save doesn't.
The calm emotions spell works different, explicitly only suppressing the condition.
Now, I admit that this is interpretation of the RAW. It's reading the language in a way that is consistent with the way we play the game. I think it's still RAW, but it's deliberate "how can we understand the rules - as they're written - to get the result that seems intended?" RAW interpolated from RAI, if you will.
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With heal, I see pretty much the same logic; that spell removes the originally applied condition entirely, putting the creature into the same state as a creature who made the initial save. The condition is removed, and while the confusion spell's duration continues, the target of heal doesn't get re-confused for the same reason a creature making their initial save doesn't.
The calm emotions spell works different, explicitly only suppressing the condition.
How can you say that calm emotions explicitly suppresses the confused condition when it explicitly uses the word "removes", implying that it is handled differently from fear effects which are associated with the word "suppresses"? If they were supposed to be handled in the same way, there would be no need to use two different words.
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The calm emotions spell works different, explicitly only suppressing the condition.
But that isn't true for the case of Confusion. It literally differentiates suppressing other conditions and removing the confused condition.
Remove. Not suppress. There is a big difference, and Calm Emotions explicitly calls that difference out.
*edit: Ninja'd
Yeah, if Calm Emotions only suppressed it would be different.
But it goes out of its way to say removes. The Heal spell is similar though it says "ends" instead of removes.
Heal and Calm Emotions should have the same effect with respect to the confusion spell, unless you want to argue that end and remove have different meanings within the context. And if anything, "remove" would be a stronger effect than "end", so if you want to argue that route I would expect Heal to ultimately do nothing to the Confusion spell under Cevah's argument and Calm Emotions to succeed at getting rid of the effect.
There is no logical process in my mind where you could say Heal deals with the confusion spell but Calm Emotions doesn't. Either both work or neither does. Not working is definitely against the intention in my opinion.
My apologies... I wasn't fully awake and skimmed over the arguments.
I'll stand by my explanation, but expand it to include calm emotions effectively negating confusion if it says "removes".
It sounds like we understand each other's perspectives at this point.