Can an unarmed fighter still get monkey shine with his lvl 1 bonus feat?
They never could.
At 1st level, a unarmed fighter gains the Improved Unarmed Strike feat and any single style feat as a bonus feat. The unarmed fighter need not meet all the prerequisites of the style feat he chooses, but style feats that grant additional uses of the Elemental Fist feat cannot be taken until the unarmed fighter has that feat.
This ability replaces the bonus feat at 1st level.
Only the first Feat in the style chain is a style feat. The others are (usually) combat feats. The unarmed fighter doesn't have the cool "or associated feats" that the master of many styles did.
This is a good thing. A feat you need to be 11th level to take available at first level was just nuts.
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Doesnt going Dragon disciple kind of wasteful when you are dex based?
A bit, but I didn't see many other options; you do at least get a breath weapon, a decent bit of natural armor, and eventually add your energy type to your claws and bite. I guess Evangelist would work well, getting 3/4 BAB and -1 casting advancement. EK is better but harder to qualify. Not sure off hand if any othr PrCs would work.
Reduce Person to be a mouse sized Diminutive foxie
As much as I love the idea of mighty mouse...
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.
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Fox Shape is Su rather than Sp, doesn't that mean it is not actually a spell to conflict with Reduce Person? That said, where is the general rule about Polymorph effects stacking? Not doubting you, just curious :) It would actually be a nice side benefit since it would make you immune to things like Baleful Polymorph.
Fox Shape is Su rather than Sp, doesn't that mean it is not actually a spell to conflict with Reduce Person? That said, where is the general rule about Polymorph effects stacking? Not doubting you, just curious :) It would actually be a nice side benefit since it would make you immune to things like Baleful Polymorph.
It is still a Polymorph effect, regardless of Ex, SP, Su, whatever. Magic Schools, Transmutation, Polymorph.
Fox Shape is Su rather than Sp, doesn't that mean it is not actually a spell to conflict with Reduce Person? That said, where is the general rule about Polymorph effects stacking? Not doubting you, just curious :)
Magic chapter under transmutation polymorph . You need to live in thact section if you play druids..
It would actually be a nice side benefit since it would make you immune to things like Baleful Polymorph.
Well, kitsune are neigh immune to it anyway (standard action to change back because they have the shapechanger subtype) but for those that are just beast shaped...
Any polymorph effects on the target are automatically dispelled when a target fails to resist the effects of baleful polymorph, and as long as baleful polymorph remains in effect, the target cannot use other polymorph spells or effects to assume a new form.
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Cool, thanks for the information. It's really a fairly trivial part of the whole setup anyway, Mirror Image and Blur or Displacement make a much bigger difference.
That said, I've only played this until Level 4 (Barb/Barb/Swash/Sorc). Actual long term effectiveness is still theoretical at this point :) It's great now being able to fairly reliably land 4 nasty blows a round (1d2
+10 to 1d4+10 damage depending on which attack at a +13 to hit), but I don't know if it will scale - it may be in the end just finishing out Barbarian or Swashbuckler would work better, but this sounded fun and I'm really more interested in something reasonably effective and fun than something that can solo adventures.
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Figured if anyone's interested in trying it, here are a few fun lower level spells with no somatic components you can cast in Fox Shape:
* Feather Fall
* Liberating Command
* True Strike
* Blur
* Darkness (if everyone has Darkvision, naturally or from a spell)
* Displacement
* Storm Step (just found out about this one - it's kinda like a lightning bolt, except you're the bolt so you travel with it. Move into their square without AOOs from anyone, and zap them at the same time!)
* Dimension Door
* Emergency Force Sphere
Other than that, probably want to stick to extended buff spells since you'll have to shift out to cast them.
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Now trying to build this, with Fox Shape, at 7th level, but only 15 point buy, and only 2000gp starting gold.
Thoughts?
"What have I done?" :P
I love the idea of this build but ... I'm wondering how in the world you managed to get this train-wreck of a build actually leveled up to level 12 without being horribly killed long beforehand? Until he manages to get the required feats, extra double-, triple-, and even quintuple-dipped multiclasses, not to mention the required magic items, he is still a very weak halfling swashbuckler with a 6 Str (can you say maximum 1 or 2 damage till he gets to 4th or 5th level?).
Did you create this character at high level, or did he actually make the climb from 1st to his current level? If so, what role did he play for the first half of his career till he became useful in combat? Not trying to troll you, I really do love this idea! But I'm curious how it actually works while trying to level up.
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At early levels you go urban barbarian and rage for str for damage rather than dex. This boosts your damage up a bit though I usually don't recommend dumping str too much.
So you can't do the build with only 2000 gp since the item in question costs 4000 instead you would have to go with a Fox Kitsune build and grab fox shape.
If you meant 20000 gp then we can work on it since the two main pieces cost 4000 a piece, Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists and Ring of Seven Lovely Colors.
With a kitsune build and only 2000 gp it might be fun to do something like:
Urban Barbarian 1, Swashbuckler Mouser 1, Unchained Monk 1, Unchained Rogue 4.
Rather than going claws go unarmed strike. Use Unchained rogue dex to damage for unarmed strike. You will only get 3 attacks a round but you won't need any magic items to make this work.
Feats Weapon Finesse (B), Piranha Strike, Extra Rage, Dodge (B), Fox Shape I think are required but the next feat might be a Style of your choice, Combat Reflexes, Lunge, Extra Rage again.
Trait Berserker of the Society might be useful. Quain Martial Artist can add another point of damage.
Use your 2k for a cloak of resistance, wand of mage armor and 4 potions of magic fang when you have to have magic.
Statwise I would go S 8 D 18 C 12 I 10 W 14 Cha 13 (after racial, +1 Dex level up)
Since you can enter the opponents square and flank, damage should be Flurry +16/+16/+11 for 1d3 + 12 + 2d6 sneak attack while raging in fox shape. AC should be 24/28 w/Mage Armor plus you can debilitating strike for an attack penalty.
If you were to drop the "little songbird" shtick, you could still make a very effective character, and avoid most of the strange looks and jeers. Potion/wand of reduce person would let you get tiny if you really needed to bring the pain.
The things some people come up with... :)
Has anyone pitted this thing against a party, halfway its build (lvl 5-6), just for the sake of a challenge?
DiscOH:
Where to start?...
Intrepid Rescuer doesn't work. 1. You don't threaten. 2. Even if you did it only works when the opponent attacks a "helpless, prone, or stunned ally or any attack against a noncombatant". In other words... not often.
Being Prone is not good even with Monkey Style. You still can't move well while prone aside from crawling which is a poor form of transportation. You cannot fly while prone. You still have to stand up which takes an action unless you make your Acrobatics check.
Paired Opportunist from a Familiar... via what? How are you getting this Familiar? And when you have Paired Opportunist and you are getting +4 to your AoOs between your Tiny form and your Familiar's Diminutive form where do you plan on making those attacks into? Neither of you threaten.
That is, unless you are considering taking levels in Mouser Swashbuckler as I would recommend as it gives you ways to threaten.
Monkey Shine lost it's shine when MOMS no longer granted it as a bonus feat making everyone have to get it the hard way. Before that... it was awesome.
Snake Style was used to make your attacks piercing so that you could get Dex to damage without having to take 3 levels of Unchained Rogue.
Brawling Armor? Do you mean Brawling Barding? ... that is Tiny Sized? ... that you would have to put on after you are Tiny? Armor doesn't work on things that turn into other things unless the thing that is changing is a Druid using Wild Shape and then only if his armor is Wild (+3 bonus, armor has to already be +1, adding Brawling would make it a total of +5 so 25k plus whatever material the armor is made out of and/or masterwork cost).
I have to think I was missing something in the meaning of your post for what you are saying to make sense. Were you not talking about a Tiny sized hero (the topic of this thread)?
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Has anyone experimented with death from above and pummeling charge?
I am finally rebuilding my song bird after the MOMS update, and found these wonderfully suited (assuming you have 5' above the monster you want to charge at).
Oh. Just re-read the errata. Well that puts a damper on pummeling charge.
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ok. Please critique! I should be able to get the death from above charge bonus (+5) into a full attack at lvl 8 (4 UAS attacks).
To keep the charge lane clear, fly above the crowd, and occupy the nearest space still 10' in the air after each charge.
This can be made easier with sword master's flair (blue scarf), which should be usable in bird form by holding it in the beak (off hand), and activating it with panache (from Kata Master archetype), and of course using snake style to make UAS piercing.
1 brawler - wpn finesse, martial flexibility
2 brawler - death from above, TWF
3 MoMS - snake style, combat reflexes
4 brawler -
5 brawler- [WF (UAS)] - retrain next lvl
6 MoMS - [snake sidewind], pummeling style, evasion
7 MoMS - ITWF
8 brawler - pummeling charge
9 MoMS - snake fang
I'm thinking of making tiny masterwork aviator googles to help with sense motive checks (+2 circumstance), which can be used to confirm crits.
This would complete the look of Woodstock pretending to the the Red Baron with Snoopy:
Quick question about the songbird of death build.
sorry if it was already talked about earlier in the thread and I missed it.
OP says the build will have 3 natural and 3 weapon attacks at some point. How? Raven has one natural bite, and you lose your regular weapon attacks when you wild shape. Please enlighten me.
The original build was never valid. But you can still make very nice versions of this build through through the one level of mouser + either barbarian or bloodrager levels.
How was the original build not valid??? Seemed pretty solid to me.
The original build was never valid. But you can still make very nice versions of this build through through the one level of mouser + either barbarian or bloodrager levels.
Thats not an or question. An urban barbarian dip for an urban bloodrager is pretty sweet and vice versa
This is some high quality cheese! I would love to see the look on my GM's mug!
Waiiit a minute, you can stack the two different rages?
Not at the same time but since they are technically rage and bloodrage you have both independant class features, urban bloodrager gives you back your 10 foot movement increase, and you have two pools of rage rounds, which is really good if you just dipped one of the barbarians.
The build is no longer valid due to MoMS errata.
Did that make you feel better?
Seems like quite the build. It did get me thinking about how vulnerable to dispel magic it might be. Without the beast shape IV in effect, is the build still "ok"?
If you use the item's caster level (7) to determine the DC of the caster level check, the DC is 18 (11 + 7). I think I lean toward doing it this way, since the CL for spells cast from rings, wondrous items and such is typically handled that way.
If you use the minimum caster level that can cast a 6th level spell (11), then the DC is 22 (11 + 11). This also seems reasonable, and I would accept such a ruling at a table without much fuss. Going with CL 7th, though, might make the item better-balanced for its price, and seems closer to RAW (even though technically a 7th level caster can't cast a 6th level spell).
With dispel magic, there's also the option of targeting beast shape IV specifically, assuming the would-be dispeller had ID'd the spell. In that case, you target the DC of the spell with the caster level check, which results in a DC of 19 (10 + 6th level spell, +3 for the modifier from the minimum 16 INT required to cast a 6th level spell).
So, a dispeller would be rolling a caster level check against 18, 22, or 19, depending on the factors I listed above. At higher levels, this is not too difficult for an enemy spellcaster (say, level 10–14 or so, possibly with Dispel Focus or Greater Dispel Focus). Granted, the wearer could use another standard action to transform again, unless the dispel also included a rider effect (like Destructive Dispel).
Any thoughts?
The build is no longer valid due to MoMS errata.Did that make you feel better?
Yes
Not at the same time but since they are technically rage and bloodrage you have both independant class features, urban bloodrager gives you back your 10 foot movement increase, and you have two pools of rage rounds, which is really good if you just dipped one of the barbarians.
Waiiit a minute, you can stack the two different rages?
NO!
You can't multiclass an hybrid class with one of it's original classes!
Bloodrager is Sorcerer + Barbarian, so you can't take level in those 2 classes
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That restriction was dropped.
Each of the following classes draws upon two classes to form the basis of its theme. While a character can multiclass with these parent classes, doing so usually results in redundant abilities. Such abilities don't stack unless specified. If a class feature allows the character to make a one-time choice (such as a bloodline), that choice must match similar choices made by the parent classes and vice-versa (such as selecting the same bloodline).
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Skinwalker gives basically unrestricted access to bat form (diminutive) with a feat, which is why I was considering it - I don't normally play non-casters.
tiny, cause have to use flying fox bat. i too have one and building a character to use this feat. looking at range attacks maybe. or unchained rogue with dip in mouser
There's been a lot of back and forth with these builds, especially with errata changing things up half way through the thread.
I've long since gotten terribly lost. What's the current build even look like anymore?