Evil Characters for Way of the Wicked AP


Advice and Rules Questions


I may have an opportunity coming up to play in a Way of the Wicked game over Roll20. For those of you who don't know, Way of the Wicked is an all evil campaign (suggested alignment is Lawful Evil) where the PCs work to undermine and eventually overthrow a strongly lawful good government. The DM tells me the adventure path will run up to 19th or 20th level. Stats will be 18, 4x (1d8+8 in order), 8.

So I'm working up evil character concepts right now. So far, I've got concepts (of varying depth) for a LE Arrogant Elf Transmuter Wizard, a NE "Wrath of the Land" Brute Barbarian, a LE Elf Rogue / Assassin, a NE Human Curse Witch, and a LE Cleric of Asmodeus.

I'm open to any advice, regarding the above concepts or other concepts. If anyone has played through Way of the Wicked, I value your thoughts as long as they don't contain spoilers. I'm not out to make the most powerful character, but since we will only have 4 players, it would be good if it was average or above average mechanically. Also, I prefer my characters to fill one of the old school standard themes "fighter", "cleric", "rogue", or "wizard".

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Edits:
The Way of the Wicked Players Guide Link
• According to the player's guide the Antipaladin can be LE with GM approval (likely)
• Characters start at first level with ZERO gear.
• AP strongly suggests core races as infiltration is more difficult otherwise.


Let me say "You Lucky"! I love this AP, and i hope to play it one day!

Is Paladin considered an "Old School Standard Themes"? I can only tell you "what i would do in your place", and i'll do:

my choice for this AP will be an Anti-Paladin, i'm sure about!
Anti-Paladin is bound to the CE alignement, but if i'm not wrong that "AP" give you the possibility to change that bound (with GM's approval, that's right) into LE(and i feel more fair, but yes, we can discuss that all night long, everyone has his own idea about)

I would workship his wickedness Asmodeus <3.
My character would be a Prince, fall in disgrace and depravation after the murder of his beloved bride, disappointed by the lack of actions from his good deities.

If you can provide more info about (gold, source that you can use, level starting...) i will build up a sheet as soon as i can (i'm at work right now :D)


The stats will mess with you a bit if you roll poorly or in tbe wron order but here are my thoughts in general. I personally like a cleric of Asmodeous for this because he could live within a LG society without raising any suspicion and is an immensely powerful being. Furthermore Asmodeous is one of the few deities to that has a domain to fit any kind of cleric you want except bad touch. Blasting , support, ultra defense, etc are all possible.

Getting back to stats... Prior to knowing your stats being an elf is risky in my opinion as a bad roll to con with a -2 con could literally be a killer. How do you feel about a base tiefling instead?

Next, full casters are advantaged when going as many levels as you will. So even beyond the elf issue I sorta cringe at being a rogue. A rogue is a fine thing in my eyes and I don have a beef with them but at late levels they objectively do t have a new trick to bring to the dance, at all. If you bring in prestige classes and their tricks it might be worthwhile but many will say its average at best(with some reason).

Finally, are you set on being a curse witch for the witch choice? Because with your human as your race you could take racial heritage feat (half orc) and be a scarred witch doctor. With you KNOWING that you will have an 18 given to you, it would be advantageous on many levels to take that archetype as your casting and health is set for the whole game. You could roll all 1s and you would t care because your still well above average in quality. If your lucky enough to get something to support basic martial compentancy or a high dex it would be all the better.

That's what I got for now. I shall watch to c how this progresses.

Grand Lodge

I'm currently playing through this AP and it has been no cakewalk thus far. My suggestion is to stay away from one-trick ponies if you want to be successful. The more versatile the PCs, the easier it will become. You will be put into situations that you've never seen in an RPG before utilizing creativity and skills that are rarely used. You will have very little assistance from NPCs and must rely on each other, or yourself.


@Code 415 - Yes, Antipaladin is a good option also - Knight of the Sepulcher looks like a very fun archetype! (Updated OP to clarify that Antipaladin is most likely an option.) Being the disgraced son of noble would be fun, but might make infiltration or hiding yourself more difficult. Of course, that might be an incentive for piling ranks into the disguise skill, which is probably a good thing. And yes, Asmodeus is certainly an awesome deity choice. Any LE character I built would likely worship Asmodeus.

@Renegradeshepherd - I'm a bit worried about the stats myself too. The GM said he would set a minimum for combined rolls, so that might help. Still though, ending up with poor stat placement would be harsh (9 con on an elf... ugh) While Tiefling might be good mechanically, the GM is asking us to stick with core races for roleplay reasons (I updated the OP to indicate this). Perhaps instead of Elf for some choices, I should go Half-Elf or Human - I'll give it some thought. The GM does have some houserules to increase the strength or rogues (they get a good fort save, etc.) so that would help a bit, but I get the concern over playing a rogue into the high levels.

@Some Other Guy - Yeah, I am guessing the AP will be rough, so survivability and versatility are strong considerations. That said, being too versatile leads to a lack of specialization and I have good reason to trust my party, so if I play a full Wizard, I'm ok with relying on the party to protect me rather well.

Grand Lodge

MechE_ wrote:
@Some Other Guy - Yeah, I am guessing the AP will be rough, so survivability and versatility are strong considerations. That said, being too versatile leads to a lack of specialization and I have good reason to trust my party, so if I play a full Wizard, I'm ok with relying on the party to protect me rather well.

Without giving away too much, you won't have much a choice in trusting each other without facing the wrath of Asmodeus. The writer does a fantastic job of eliminating the short comings of evil games.


I went through this AP as an AntiPaladin Knight of Sepulcher. IT KICKED ALL THE ASSES!!

If you want to be a fighter type as well as the charmer outside of fighting this is a good class to do.

If I had to do it again though, I would play a straight up Wizard or maybe a Necromancer/ Agent of the grave going to an Intelligent undead.

Sorry if this is a spoiler but you MAY be able to play an Int undead and if that makes you squee for joy then Wiz may be a better option.

No matter what it is one the best AP I have ever played.


Unarmed Antipaladins are surprisingly viable with Crusader's Fist (your "cruelty"s are VERY debilitating once you have removed the question of attacking OR using touch of corruption), though that won't work with Knight of the Sepulchter.


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Getting into the second book now

What I can say:
Anti-Paladin is over-rated. If you wanna play one definitely use the archetype from Champions of Corruption.

Lots of skills makes you not suck! Hope your GM lets you get the 2 bonus skill points per level because otherwise a lot of classes are horrible dead weight for a lot of book 1, 2, and probably more.

Daze is OP for stealthy infiltrations.

Teamwork and planning are key moreso than being OP.

Necromancy has been untouchable for until partway through book 2, so no comment on that.

Inquisitor of the conversion, Reformation, Spellkiller Inquisitions, or Feather Domain, Rage Domain (the one with rage powers) are all amazing choices.

Don't suck at saves. This so far every save has been tested and you don't wanna fail.

.....The first chance you get buy 2 alchemist fires......


I haven't played this AP, but I will say that if my fellow posters are accurate on that needing to make saves are even more important than normal; that cleric is looking even more appealing. The divine protection feat on a reasonably high charisma character would be HUGE. I realize that the dice will determine this more than anything but if you should roll high on that attribute you at least have a legit use of it. Plus you already have two strong saves on fort and will so your better than average from the start.


Hello there
i'm your Yithian in this endevour.
1) I thing the best way to have this AP successful is to be sure of which character's your friends shall play, to better complement them.
2) I think that each of your suggestions is very good, but can be made more interesting. The AP offers certain tematic archetipes for the antipaladin and cleric classes, with lots of time for crafting and, therefore, retraining, when the archetipe has stopped to be useful. the one i'm thinking are "unholy barrister" cleric of asmodeus or "lord of darkness" antipaladin. also, many third parties manual have risen around the concepts of way of the wicked, giving you extra and very juicy stuff if needed. wizards are op, expetially conjurers, but you could feel a bit spell starved on the long run, since acquiring then legally it's difficult. an Oracle it's a very good character for this (fire and contracts), while sorcerer (draconic or infernal) can have very good chances to meet "parents" around.
3) on races, while human is the best, doing elf or dwarf allows you to interact with lesser but strong aspects of the campaign that can become interesting if you work with the DM to enrich them. tiefling can work tematically if you see then as "survivors" from a 20 years long purge.
4) On deities, while asmodeus is the primary choice, remenber that the infernal pantheon is vast. mephistopheles, dispater and belzebuu are wonderful patrons, even for witches. if not those, i suggest daemons such as zsuriel or charon.


Played our first session of this last week and can't wait for the next.

I was originally very tempted to play either, a LE Tiefling Inquisitor of Asmodeus with either the Infiltrator or Sanctified Slayer archetypes, or a LE human Daring Champion Cavalier (Order of the Flame/Vengence) to go for a dashing, dex-based villainous swordsman.

In the end I've gone for Anti-Paladin as the rest of the party consisted of a Rogue, Cleric and Alchemist and I felt we needed some decent muscle. We've used the suggested 2 extra skill points per level suggested by the writers and 25 point builds.

All I have to say is good luck, reckon you'll need it from what we've played so far. Any of those concepts you mentioned should be fine and as was mentioned you definitely don't want to just be a one trick pony really, and you really, really want to make those saves!

Dark Archive

I think that some of these recommendations are very good and you'll have a lot of fun with them, personally I'll be taking the opportunity to play something I wouldn't be able to otherwise... a diabolist.

Cleric of Asmodeus (go Separatist for Evil & Rune domains) to level 5, then hit up the Diabolist prestige class til at least level 7 of it, after that you can continue Diabolist, go back Cleric or even dip Darkfire Adept for some insane fun.

You'll have an excellent list of summons available along with all the usual cleric awesomeness for spellcasting plus the chance to punch people in the face and still have decent skills and the ability to be a face if needed.

Potentially (with the Darkfire Adept dip) you can at 16th level summon a 20HD creature... say, a Pit Fiend :D


Cleric of Asmodeus is awesome, especially a fiendish vessel tiefling archetype. Take Fiendish Facade and the Trickery domain, and you can disguise yourself as human even with horns and goat hooves. Antipaladin of tyranny gives you the ability to dominate person replaceable minions, and LE is the recommend alignment. Druids are an interesting choice, as are neutral evil barbarians or bloodragers. Just about anything works other than gunslinger (and the GM has to modify the treasure charts for one), and paladin obviously. A fire oracle with the burned curse would be a fun roleplaying choice, as would summoner (devils, devils, devils).


Don't play a Diabolist, unless you want the other players to hate you. It's a combination of OP, time wasting, board clogging, and making team mates feel useless.


stormcrow raises a good point about fiendish vessel. With racial heritage as a human you would have the perfect good alignment killer; which seems to be the main point of the AP.


Enchanter. I player a Kitsune Enchanter with a side order of summoning and necromancy. There's nothing quite so evil as making your sacrifices sacrifice themselves because you don't want to do it or get messy.


MechE_ wrote:

I may have an opportunity coming up to play in a Way of the Wicked game over Roll20. For those of you who don't know, Way of the Wicked is an all evil campaign (suggested alignment is Lawful Evil) where the PCs work to undermine and eventually overthrow a strongly lawful good government. The DM tells me the adventure path will run up to 19th or 20th level. Stats will be 18, 4x (1d8+8 in order), 8.

So I'm working up evil character concepts right now. So far, I've got concepts (of varying depth) for a LE Arrogant Elf Transmuter Wizard, a NE "Wrath of the Land" Brute Barbarian, a LE Elf Rogue / Assassin, a NE Human Curse Witch, and a LE Cleric of Asmodeus.

I'm open to any advice, regarding the above concepts or other concepts. If anyone has played through Way of the Wicked, I value your thoughts as long as they don't contain spoilers. I'm not out to make the most powerful character, but since we will only have 4 players, it would be good if it was average or above average mechanically. Also, I prefer my characters to fill one of the old school standard themes "fighter", "cleric", "rogue", or "wizard".

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Edits:
The Way of the Wicked Players Guide Link
• According to the player's guide the Antipaladin can be LE with GM approval (likely)
• Characters start at first level with ZERO gear.
• AP strongly suggests core races as infiltration is more difficult otherwise.

Since rolling in order will determine what you may be good at I would suggest you roll first, and choose a class second. If you try to be a barbarian and roll a 9 constitution or strength then you might be in trouble.


wraithstrike wrote:
Since rolling in order will determine what you may be good at I would suggest you roll first, and choose a class second. If you try to be a barbarian and roll a 9 constitution or strength then you might be in trouble.

I've pointed this out as a primary concern and informed the DM that if we get 18, ?, ?, ?, ?, 8 and the ? marks are locked into position, I will be playing a wizard, witch, sorcerer, or oracle. He came around to seeing it my way and is reconsidering the stat generation method. Right now, he's thinking about using a standard array of 16, 15, 14, 13, 10, 8. This makes something like an Antipaladin much more attractive.

I also probably should have mentioned that the DM is limiting sourcebooks to - CRB, APG, UM, UC, UE. ARG & ACG are off the table. He could perhaps be convinced to allow single pieces of the ARG or ACG, but the justifications would need to be story/flavor reasons rather than power reasons. As is, I'm the player with the most system mastery by quite a long shot and the DM wants to keep the PCs on even footing as much as possible.


MechE_ wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Since rolling in order will determine what you may be good at I would suggest you roll first, and choose a class second. If you try to be a barbarian and roll a 9 constitution or strength then you might be in trouble.

I've pointed this out as a primary concern and informed the DM that if we get 18, ?, ?, ?, ?, 8 and the ? marks are locked into position, I will be playing a wizard, witch, sorcerer, or oracle. He came around to seeing it my way and is reconsidering the stat generation method. Right now, he's thinking about using a standard array of 16, 15, 14, 13, 10, 8. This makes something like an Antipaladin much more attractive.

I also probably should have mentioned that the DM is limiting sourcebooks to - CRB, APG, UM, UC, UE. ARG & ACG are off the table. He could perhaps be convinced to allow single pieces of the ARG or ACG, but the justifications would need to be story/flavor reasons rather than power reasons. As is, I'm the player with the most system mastery by quite a long shot and the DM wants to keep the PCs on even footing as much as possible.

What are the other pcs? have you already an idea on them?


In that case be the support. None of them know how to make a decent Cleric, Oracle, Bard, or Wizard.

Honestly I suggest Bard since just giving them straight pluses will be easy for them to grasp. Bard Archer works pretty well for limiting the Fort saves you'll take and giving you decent damage. Additionally your strong knowledge, social, and stealth skills will keep you relevant in all situations.


Pnakotus Detsujin wrote:
What are the other pcs? have you already an idea on them?

The discussion is still relatively fresh. One guy expressed interest in an Antipaladin or a Cleric and another guy mentioned a Witch, but I think both of those are "the first evil thing that jumped into my mind" sort of ideas.

Insain Dragoon wrote:

In that case be the support. None of them know how to make a decent Cleric, Oracle, Bard, or Wizard.

Honestly I suggest Bard since just giving them straight pluses will be easy for them to grasp. Bard Archer works pretty well for limiting the Fort saves you'll take and giving you decent damage. Additionally your strong knowledge, social, and stealth skills will keep you relevant in all situations.

Well it's not that the other players aren't experienced, it's just that they don't build optimized characters in the PF system. They've all got 10 + years of 3.5e/PF experience and one of them has been playing in 1e, they just don't get into the nitty gritty of going through books or forums and looking for every mechanical advantage. They're the kind of guys who will play a rogue/wizard arcane trickster, still enjoy it, and make it reasonably effective by smart use of spell, good positioning, etc.

That said, a bard isn't an awful idea. I'm not completely sure I could get behind a bard though. I tend to like playing good martial characters or good casters - rogues & bards don't really appeal to me for some reason. (See earlier comment about me being the more mechanically inclined player at the table.) I can always put together a good character concept or two and see if they grab me - Any suggestions for bard archetypes? We just had a bard archer in our previous campaign, so I really hate the idea of going archery, but it seems that any other bard option is so far behind that it's almost not worthwhile... Ugh.


If your players are very experience, then what you need is advice on characters what may be interesting on a roleplay aspect given the premise of the company.
I shall try to do so without spoilering anything.

1) Unity as a group. The group must bound very strongly for many story reasons. One way to make it sure is that ta few characters knew each other before being send to Brandescar prison. Which leads me point 2
2) The religion of asmodeus. It is a pitoval point of the campaign, in the sense that devotion shall be greatly rewarded and there will be great moments of conflict. I honestly would love to see a group of pcs to be all asmodean (cleric/oracle, antipaladin, inquisitor and witch (infernal patron) but i fear you might dislike it.
3) talingarde is a country with etnical and racial minorances. Iraen people are savage human driven to the forest from the talireans (the white, english like people) Dwarf are with no past, forced to live with man. Elves are generally banished from a secluted kingdom of north. Gnome and halfling are almost not existing (no culture, no history, no importance). Also, the hobgoblin (used as an "half orc" race) could be a wonderful solution for a certain type of pc.
4) This is a story of politic transformation, arcane magic resurrection and conquest, with tones of religion supremacy. A character that aims to be "king" or "archmage of the kingdom" or "emperor of an unite nation" or "evangelist of the infernal power" can potentially become it, creating a great legacy.

Now, about certain type of characters.
1) sorceror (draconic) or bloodrager will probably have the chance to meet their progenitor in a pitoval story moment. idem for infernal ones or daemonic ones.
2) fallen angels character type (aasimar, but also ex priest and such) will have lots of of occasion to take revenge or even meet their ex superiors, friends and family as enemies.
3) any dhampir (possibly under 80 years old) may meet their progenitor at one point
4) any "fallen noble" character type can be part of a certain decadent house of half-elves named Barca, whose members appears around the history and may get a bigger role.
5) any thief like character will have great fun in many infiltration roles at the beginning, but later he'll get bored if he don't involves himself with organization stuff to do. alchemist will have the hardest time unless they deviate into mad scientist things (brewing monsters and such), but that will require lots of GM interation.
6) The adventure is poor of wilderness exploring at low levels, and later with magic it becomes not necessary, so rangers and druids may feel out of place. though there are wild things to meet.
7) since the adventure offers players at a certain point lots of time to craft, having such talents may be useful until you don'y get npc that can do it for you

These are my suggestion


I'm not one to speak for great bards but I would consider archeologist if considering wkill monkey role.Not because I sing the praises of it over the other bards or some game reason but because of your original post. You mentioned that you had interest in playing something that fit very closely to the original four classes roles. IMO the rogue has been overshadowed by the archeologist bard in that role.

The archeologists get the rogue talents every four levels, get to inspire themselves to the point where they are one of the best offenses among 3/4 BAB, has scaling and free bonuses to good skills, and has more class skills than the rogue on top of some spells.

On interesting note, at level one archeologist is actually more capable at dealing damage than a barbarian using the same weapon(s). The bard will obviously fall behind very fast but like the inquisitors judgements, the archeologist luck feature will scale and thus stay competitive in battle.

Another good thing... IF stats should end up not doing very well the archeologist luck adding to saves, skills, attack, and all that you roll for covers many sins. For a limited amount of time an archeologist has saves comparable to a paladin. Something to think about.


If you would want to try something other than a martial/fullcast and go the bard route you could try out a concept I asked about some time earlier for that same campaign - a lotus geisha bard div-spawn succubus-like tiefling a.k.a. The Damned Bi**h
..but that's a concept that might make everyone at the table uneasy if played true in a male-only group.

If the other player goes the antipaladin route try out a ninja and convince him to use a high crit multiplier weapon, then go ninja with butterfly sting yourself

Sovereign Court

Echo everyone else in saying this is a great AP. Just a few thoughts:
Worshipping Asmodeus is not required, but highly recommended. That said, this doesn't have to affect your mechanics (a fighter who worshippers asmodeus is still fine), but some of the relational encounters work much better if you are all Asmodeans.

Having someone good at charisma based skills is very important. There will be plenty of times when you need to bluff, lie, convince, etc. I played an oracle in a party with a bunch of characters who dumped Cha, and believe me those skills were quite helpful. So if nobody else plays Cha based, maybe go Oracle instead of Cleric, or Anti-paladin instead of fighter-type.


Actually a melee Bard build isn't too difficult.

Long spear+Arcane Strike+Power attack are really all you need. After that typical lingering performance, Combat casting, Discordant voice, save feats, ect.

Standing behind the frontlines you'll be able to poke people no problem and you'll have all the necessary feats to be effective by level 3 (PA+Arcane Strike)

I ran a similar build with a Half-Orc and Falchion, but Long Spear gives a good reach advantage. You static will actually be pretty competitive and your song makes you very accurate. (at level 7 I had +6 from str, +6 from PA, +2 AS, +2 Inspire courage for a +16 dmg total)

Spells to look for:
Haste
Good Hope
Sleep (trade out later)
Blistering invective
Gallant Inspiration

If it's not up your alley that's cool, but I just wanted to make it known that a Melee Bard build, while less optimal than an archery one, is still very valuable and useful in a party without compromising his role as a support caster.

at 20PB my level 1 looked like
17 str
14 dex
12 con
10 int
11 wis
14 cha
At 25, which is suggested for WotW, I'd bump up Con to 14, wis to 12, and int to 11.

Also I'd suggest act or dance as first performance type so your Performance can be silent when needed.


And bards make some of the best evil characters for roleplaying, period. You can walk into several areas in this AP, start playing, fascinate and then use suggestion to start deadly brawls or render foes unable to respond. Charm, illusion, and the bard support spells also work well to disable and confuse your enemies. For a cheap get out of medium level trouble item that works great for bards and any evil character, use this

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/allur ing-golden-apple

The DC is only 13, but against low Will save types, it works wonders. Also song of discord is highly suggested at higher levels. If you're dead set on a melee bard, the sound striker or dervish dancer work nicely with bladed weapons.


I'm currently comparing two Archaeologist Bard builds. One a Dex based Scimitar wielding Gnome and the second a Str based longsword or longspear wielding Half-Elf. Each would take Lingering Performance, Arcane Strike, Weapon Focus, Trap Spotter, Spell Focus - Enchantment & Greater Spell Focus - Echantment, & Toughness by level 11. (Str build would take Power Attack & Dex build would take Weapon Finesse, obviously.) Use of Half-Elf & Gnome is fairly set in order to gain access to extra bardic performance rounds as favored class bonus for the first maybe 5 or 6 levels, ensuring that the Luck based performance bonus is active 90+% of the time during combat.

Sum total:
• Dex based Gnome build deals 30% less damage (across levels 1 to 20) than the Str based Half-Elf.
• Dex based Gnome will have 4 to 8 points higher armor class (size, dex, shield use) and some more HP.
• Dex based Gnome will have better "roguey skills", due to a higher Dex. Also +4 to stealth from size is nice.
• Dex based Gnome will have a higher Charisma modifier - +3 vs +4.

Note: There are a few house rules in play here. ..
• All weapons crit only on a 20/x2 with no confirmation rolls.
• Power attack (and deadly aim) have BAB requirement(s) of +5 and advanced at +10, +15, & +20 only.

Am I missing any good feats/build strategies? Note that the list of source materials includes only the CRB, APG, UM, UC, & UE. The ARG & ACG are not available. Neither are any softcover books. Is the (30%) reduction in damage worth the benefits


During our play through of the first few books, damage output was relatively unimportant in the majority of the fights. It was like most of the PFRPG APs, usually one really nasty encounter (that was only problematic in hindsight due to conditions, terrain, party comp). Where the rest were pretty standard encounters and any decently competent group would succeed. If the rest of the group is capable of decent damage output, scratching out that extra few percent in your build is probably not worth losing other abilities to.

If my current character (antipaladin archer with the archer archetype tweaked to work with it) happens to somehow get "dead" I would definitely start up a Diabolist. The complaint about them being board clogging and making the party hate you... Would be wrong. The AP has LOTs of downtime in one of the earlier books. It also happens to have suggestions on how you all should run your "evil empire" of followers in said book along with suggestions for the leadership feat (if one PC takes it, if multiple take it, alternate rules). There are PLENTY of ways to take advantage of the character and not bog down play. And the GM is given extra help with using it (even if not that specific character build) in the AP.

That being said, inquire about the Leadership feat if you go the party face/support route. With your book restriction you can't do the Diabolist, but builds similar end up working well. With all the downtime, followers and controlled creatures have LOTS of use in the background. Our necromancer came in very handy and the party was happy to have the "extra bodies" during several encounters.


Ask if you can use "Vile Leadership" from Paizo Companion "champions of Corruption."


One thing to add in favor of gnome is breadth of knowledge feat. +2 to all knowledge isn't bad if you seek to have strong skills. This combined with diletante feat and bardic knowledge means your set for all knowledge skills with one skill rank. Yes its a feat or two but worth mentioning.

Now the half elf does have one slight edge. If he uses the same favored class bonus as the gnome they would be equal. BUT, if the half elf take fast learner he could have health gains from favored class as well. Though this would only really matter if you want toughness on top of that.


@Skylancer4 - Yeah, I like the idea of playing a Gnome better. The final decision will probably depend on how the rest of the party shapes up. If we lack much melee damage, then perhaps the longspear/longsword half-elf will have to be played. Only thing I'm not sure about is how to play a LE Gnome... Every Gnome I've every played has been CG or CN, lol. Perhaps he looks down on other Gnomes of their foolhardy nature to the point of preferring to attack Gnome in combat first. I'm glad to hear that damage isn't the primary focus of the adventure path.

@Insain Dragoon - Thanks for the tip. I probably won't ask the DM if he will allow the feat, but rather point to it as an interesting way to handle leadership scores and the outlook of cohorts/minions in an evil game. Our group's houserule on Leadership is that the DM gets to make the character initially with a heavy amount of input from the character. But cohorts are almost never "optimally built" - they usually have a skill focus feat laying around and their stats aren't perfectly placed. But it never really hinders them from being helpful, we just try to keep cohorts & followers in the background of the game to allow the PCs to shine.

@Renegadeshepherd - I really like the Breadth of Knowledge feat, I'm using it on my Druid in Skull & Shackles right now. It's true that Half-Elf can take fast learner, but Gnomes get a +2 con bonus which is better, unless I'm missing something else.


I'm having a lot of fun playing through Way of the Wicked - it's a great AP. I decided on a support/healing character, and wound up playing a Life Oracle. Healing during combat is difficult in an evil campaign, mass healing is even harder. Life Oracle can let you do that, although Fiendish Vessel would probably be good as well.

I chose a half-elf (half-drow for flavor) to get the +1/2 effective revelation level on Channel, which makes it very effective in combat (a 5d6 channel at level 6, for example, is awesome). Half-elf also opens up Paragon Surge, which gets you the entire cleric spell list when needed. Half-elf gets you a free Skill Focus, which set you up for Eldritch Heritage, which in turn with an Arcane bloodline can get you the wizard spell list too.

Divine Protection adds your your charisma bonus to saves. You are the party face with a high charisma. and having someone with a good bluff is VERY important. When trying to infiltrate normal society, a life oracle is great - you can pretend to be a cleric of Mitra by channeling positive energy (and can pretend to use a Mitran holy symbol to boot - as oracles don't need a divine focus you can use another god's holy symbol as a prop).

For offensive capability, you can choose the Ancient Lorekeeper archetype to add some arcane spells to your spell list, and/or focus on Summons.


We played through the AP and its an absolute blast. Our group was pretty potent...

Our characters were:

Dwarven Cleric of Asmodeus (Madness, Heroism)
The GM allowed the Domain/Subdomain combination, considering him a 'fanatic devoted to the Glory of Asmodeus'. There are few abilities more useful in the game than Visions of Madness and Aura of Heroism is a killer buff.

Tiefling Paladin of Asmodeus (Oath of Vengeance)
The GM waived the Lawful Good requirement and allowed him to be Lawful Evil, making the obvious adjustments to class features. He took the favored class bonus and loaded up on Extra Lay on Hands. Absolute Beast.

Half-Elven Summoner
Half-Elven Master Summoner

Sisters who shared an ancestral bond with devils and summoned fiendish creatures to fight for them.

All in all this was a very, very powerful party and I'd recommend any of those options, especially if you can get the GM to make similar concessions.


Way of the Wicked is an incredibly adventure path and I can only recommend it.

However, if I may offer a piece of advice for character generation ...

This AP is incredibly character driven. While it is possible to play evil-aligned characters in many campaigns, provided your GM isn't one of those who disallow it, it is extremely rare to be the actual villains.

This makes WotW stand out as something almost unique. It means that your group will, strictly speaking, have only each other to rely on. It'll quickly become a "Party Contra Mundi"-situation, where you will really have an outstanding opportunity to roleplay characters in situations you would normally never have a chance to see.

In my experience, class/race/religion is far, far less important than WHO your character is. Why is this character the evil, vilanous scumbag that he or she is? What made him or her go down that path?

Class/race/religion is only really important in this campaign insofar as you need to have a party that won't devolve into interparty butchery within five minutes.

The group I play WotW in, for example, consists of:

A tiefling warrior with an oversized zetsubou and the ability to scare a dead man back to life with a sneer. She's got a very pragmatic take on religion ... as in "I'll deal with religion when it benefits me, and otherwise, here's a two-finger salute!"

Another tiefling, this time a fire-happy sorceress who uses her good looks and sex-appeal to get ahead in life. Her take on religion is also fairly laid back.

A human cleric of Asmodeus, the groups leader by general consent, who speaks like your typical mustache-twirling arch-villain, reminding everyone of Dick Dastardly. His take on religion, given that he's a cleric, is pretty laid back as well. He has no problems with others not being Asmodeans ... so long as they subject to his will and rule.

A human alchemist with a fixation on inventing mustard gas. She prays to whatever deity will be most useful in any given situation, but does acknowledge that gods -are- useful.

A human rogue/brawler who used to be a norgorberite when the game started, but who has converted to the Church of Asmodeus over the course of the game. He has some personal habbits which routinely make the rest of the group question whether they need to demand the return of his membership card to the human-being-club.

A human gunslinger worshipping Charon. Her entire world-view is one of complete nihilism and the worship of Charon as the embodiment of Death. She's got a few weird personal habits as well, including running away in horror whenever someone starts talking about any form of sexual activity.

The point is ... make a character who is a person first, and a class second, because the interaction between the characters has to be very dynamic for this campaign. It needs to be, because very nearly all interaction with the world outside the confines of the party, will be based on skullduggery, lying, subterfuge and truly epic amounts of dishonesty.

Enjoy the campaign ... WotW is -amazing-.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Those poor followers of Mitra have it so terribly, terribly confused. Only a right structure to the society can allow meaningful growth. Lawbreakers must realize that prison is hell, or crime will flourish. We can fix our crime problems, but the current regime will not do what is necessary.
The poor and destitute can easily be taken care of, used as a cheap and abundant labor force.
Honestly, the example of hierarchy and structure that Divine Asmodeus has given us are so practical, how can it be that we haven't embraced this model earlier? Because of the weakness and foolishness of the followers of Mitra!
We need change! And I will lead us into that change. There IS hope for our future, if we but have the fortitude to grasp it and stay on course. As the spiritual leader of our nation, I will gather allies together to lead us into the bright future of prosperity. Hail Asmodeus!

((I cannot wait to play this AP with my cleric of Asmodeus. Thanks for the ideas, folks.))

Dark Archive

First off I just want to say I love the idea of how the players getting their character's ability scores, the 'Focus and Foible' system of having one stat be 8 and another 18 with the other four being 1d10+7 with no rerolls or moving abilities allows for some randomness in the character. Which is great in my eyes, and very much a good thing.

If I were to join a 'Way of the Wicked' campaign I would want to created a Neutral Evil Bard who plays up the manipulative and charming bastard angle when it comes to roleplaying.

Shadow Lodge

I would probably use Fortune and Foible when and if I run way of the wicked with two adjustments. To avoid having a crapload of 8's due to bad rolls, I'ed allow PC's to reroll 1's on the die giving them a spread of 9-17 which works better as you will never have a stat lower, equal or higher than your Greatest Weakness and Greatest Strength. I would also allow them to cherry pick where to put those stats as it can be pretty bad to have a low secondary stat if a class requires it.

As for recommendations for Way of the Wicked an ideal party would be:

1 FULL Arcane caster [Wizard, Witch or Sorcerer fill this role] (For magical item crafting and the ability to cast those world shaking 9th level spells in the future)

1 FULL Divine Caster [Cleric or Oracle can fill this role] (To eventually become the leader of the new theocracy of Talongarde and bring the new religion to an ascendent position. Also having a full divine caster is good for dealing with crippling conditions like level/stat damage/drain and curses.)

1 Evil Warrior [Paladin, Fighter, Cavalier or Barbarian] (To be the meat shield for the party as well as the master of Marshal command in the field against the mitrans]

1 Skulldugger [Rogue ideal, but a Bard, Inquisitor, Ranger or Investigator can fill this role] (You'll need someone able to sneak around and deal with traps and infiltration as well as deal with people. A Skulldugger can also act as a face for the group if you specialize on social abilities)

Now for larger parties of 5+ you're free to fill in whatever class you want to play. Taking another full caster/divine will give a significant boust in magical power. But a Wildcard 1/2 caster can help act as a support and iron out the holes in the party specialty area. In the end that is up to you.


I'm running WoTW now, the group is just starting book 2.
We have:
Anti Paladin/Warpriest
Summoner (necromancer archtype)/Shaman
Arcanist/Alchemist
Arcanist/Rogue
Bolt ace gunslinger/bard

The AP has had the least to do. The players are smart, and scheme alot to avoid direct conflict. In a few spots, it's unavoidable, but right now the AP is just their "pocket tank" and brings little value to the party.

We did a version of FoF for stats, 18 and 10 with 1d8+9 for the other stats. I don't like to play with stats below 10, so I adjusted it for them.


In my game we found out that Anti-Paladins are definitely NPC characters.

Not because they're op, but because they're boring and have little to do in combat. Touch of Corruption or whatever is mostly useless, the spell list sucks, and few good skills.


Insain Dragoon wrote:

In my game we found out that Anti-Paladins are definitely NPC characters.

Not because they're op, but because they're boring and have little to do in combat. Touch of Corruption or whatever is mostly useless, the spell list sucks, and few good skills.

We allowed the divine hunter to be used by antipaladins, it didn't need much in the way of alterations. There are probably more, and in a game like WotW there isn't much reason to not allow "reversed" archetypes as the game focuses on the opposite alignments (than the norm).

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