Is there a way to make katana finessable?


Advice

Grand Lodge

I remember hearing something about a magic item that does this, but I cannot for the life of me remember the name of said item. Anyone know off the top of their head? Oh and is it PFS legal?


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I suspect that you are thinking of Effortless Lace, from the Giant Hunter's Handbook. It is not PFS legal.

Grand Lodge

Yep that's it! Tyvm Gish. Kinda sucks its not PFS legal but at least my players and I can use it in the homebrew games.


Buy an aldori dueling sword. Its the best game expression of a katana out there.

Contributor

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Swashbuckler's Finesse (or Champion's Finesse) + Weapon Focus: katana + Slashing Grace will also make the katana finessable, but only if you wield the weapon in one hand.


Exotic weapon prof for 1 handed wielding (I think)+1lv in swash+slashing grace = 1 handed, dex to hit and damage.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

That's just to damage, not to hit.

As Alexander pointed out, you need to dip Swashbuckler for Finesse.


Petty Alchemy wrote:

That's just to damage, not to hit.

As Alexander pointed out, you need to dip Swashbuckler for Finesse.

He included that.

Zwordsman wrote:
Exotic weapon prof for 1 handed wielding (I think)+1lv in swash+slashing grace = 1 handed, dex to hit and damage.

Grand Lodge

Awesome. I didn't think there was a way to finesse a katana without that Effortless Lace. Ty guys. I am going to have to toy with a couple of different build ideas now and see what I like best.

Sovereign Court

It's not a bad swashbuckler weapon. Is it generally worth a feat for that extra 1 point of damage vs scimitar? Not really. But there are other ways to get exotic weapon proficinecy.

You could be a half-elf who can trade their Skill Focus for an exotic weapon, or you could grab the ioun stone which lets you treat an exotic weapon as a martial one. (Make sure to stick it in a wayfinder so that your whole build isn't screwed over by someone grabbing it.)

Liberty's Edge

Or hell, just get an elven curveblade. Those are two-handed finesse weapons (and prior to Ultimate Combat, what I actually used for katanas.)

Sovereign Court

Snorb wrote:
Or hell, just get an elven curveblade. Those are two-handed finesse weapons (and prior to Ultimate Combat, what I actually used for katanas.)

You can finesse them - but they're not nearly as good since you can't get dex to damage without Agile (not viable until early middling levels) - and even then you're giving up a hand for only an extra 2-3 damage since you don't get 1.5x damage.


Snorb wrote:
Or hell, just get an elven curveblade. Those are two-handed finesse weapons (and prior to Ultimate Combat, what I actually used for katanas.)

Elven Curve Blades are nice, but Slashing Grace and Fencing Grace have made other weapons better for high Dex builds.

Edit: Charon's Little Helper, you are a crafty ninja. :)


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Buy an aldori dueling sword. Its the best game expression of a katana out there.

And looks like one too.

Grand Lodge

Aldori dueling blade wouldn't be bad either, but I am pretty much envisioning a Swash/Magus (Eldritch Scion archetype) kitsune with a katana. Or maybe a Vishkanya instead of kitsune.

Grand Lodge

Other multiclass options and races are still up for debate though. I am not 100% sure that magus is the way I want to go with him/her yet. I also like fetchling and ifrit if i were to stick with the Eldritch Scion route.

If I were to veer away from the Eldritch Scion route I could possibly go with Wayang, Half-Elf, or Half-Orc race as well. There are alot of possibilities honestly.


Snorb wrote:
Or hell, just get an elven curveblade. Those are two-handed finesse weapons (and prior to Ultimate Combat, what I actually used for katanas.)

agree if you need a feat to be able to use a katana just get elven curve blade instead its 1d10 18-20 instead of 1d8 18-20

Grand Lodge

Elven Curved Blade wouldn't work for a magus build though. Has to be a one handed weapon.


Shae'ura-Drae wrote:
Elven Curved Blade wouldn't work for a magus build though. Has to be a one handed weapon.

depends on if you plan to use spell combat or not I went with the 2h build that just channels spells through the weapon and put the crit enhancement on weapon so I can crit on spell & weapon damage with a roll of 15-20

Grand Lodge

Yep but I would definitely be going the spell combat route. I don't mind the Spellstrike ability and I will definitely use it from time to time but Spell Combat would be my main combat style.


Where can you find stats for the katana? The onyl stuff I found is that it is a two-handed exotic weapon but no damage or crit info. To be more clear, a daikatana is a two-handed exotic weapon and is extremely long, thus requiring two hands. A katana is a one-handed weapon often wielded with a washizaki in the off-hand (Japanese shortsword) although the katana can be used with 1 and 1/2 hands with the second hand really just there for balance and control as from the middle finger down the rest of the hand is off the hilt.

Anyway, that's what we do for homebrew for better accuracy of the Japanese blade. Again, where can I find the damage, crit, and other info for the katana?

Liberty's Edge

Snickersnack: Katanas are in the SRD, under Ultimate Combat > Mastering Combat > Eastern Armor and Weapons. Click this and scroll down! =p

More specifically, a katana is a one-handed exotic melee weapon with a reach of 5', does 1d8 slashing damage, critical hits on an 18-20 for double damage, and has the Deadly property, which adds +4 to the Fortitude save difficulty when you coup de grace someone with it. It costs 50 gold.


I've never heard the word 'Daikatana' used to mean a particular type of katana, but the two-hand-only, larger katana-type weapon is called a Nodachi in pathfinder. 1d10, 18-20 crit range, has the Brace property (reflecting, I believe, what I understand to be its traditional use as an anti-horseman weapon).

Grand Lodge

As someone who trained in Kenjutsu for five years I am pleased there is no way it is not easy to get Dex-to-Damage with the katana. The Katana is very much a Strength-based weapon. When I see people wanting to get Dex-to-damage with such a weapon it makes me suspect they have conflated skill with Dexterity. As an experienced martial artist who is competent with this weapon, allowing Dex-to-damage with it would offend my sensibilities. I know, from many hundreds of hours on the dojo floor, that a katana does not work that way.


Dennis Deadsky wrote:
As someone who trained in Kenjutsu for five years I am pleased there is no way to get Dex-to-Damage with the katana. The Katana is very much a Strength-based weapon. When I see people wanting to get Dex-to-damage with such a weapon it makes me suspect they have conflated skill with Dexterity. As an experienced martial artist who is competent with this weapon, allowing Dex-to-damage with it would offend my sensibilities. I know, from many hundreds of hours on the dojo floor, that a katana does not work that way.

Actually, as we have been saying, you can get DEX to damage and to hit with a katana. Dip swashbuckler and use weapon focus -> slashing grace. Not realistic, but so much of the game isn't.

It is the elven curve blade that can't get DEX to damage.

Grand Lodge

Yep I don't play rpg's expecting realistic representations. It's just nice to be able to have a way to use Dex with katana effectively and it keeps me from being a run of the mill dervish dance scimitar wielder. Woot!

Silver Crusade

Eldritch Scion mixes with Kapenia Dancer.


Undersized katana?


Gisher wrote:
It is the elven curve blade that can't get DEX to damage.

Elven curve blade can get Dex to damage, just give it the Agile property.


Shae'ura-Drae wrote:
Yep that's it! Tyvm Gish. Kinda sucks its not PFS legal but at least my players and I can use it in the homebrew games.

Always remember that in homebrew games you dont need to follow the rules any more than you want to. You Can make great axe finesseable, and no body( exept the guys you play with) Can tell you no.


Shae'ura-Drae wrote:
Aldori dueling blade wouldn't be bad either, but I am pretty much envisioning a Swash/Magus (Eldritch Scion archetype) kitsune with a katana. Or maybe a Vishkanya instead of kitsune.

Just envision a katana, the artists certainly did with the dueling sword and its associated feats.

Grand Lodge

True but a dueling blade requires a few feats to get dex to damage right?


Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Slashing Grace. Same number as the katana; only difference is that you can use anyone's Weapon Finesse feat for that one instead of needing Daring Champion or Swashbucklers' versions.


Gisher wrote:
I suspect that you are thinking of Effortless Lace, from the Giant Hunter's Handbook. It is not PFS legal.

Is this posted on any of the SRDs? or is it not OGL? I didn't get the GHHB because i found it to be a bit too focused


kestral287 wrote:
Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Slashing Grace. Same number as the katana; only difference is that you can use anyone's Weapon Finesse feat for that one instead of needing Daring Champion or Swashbucklers' versions.

Don't forget exotic weapon prof.


leo1925 wrote:
kestral287 wrote:
Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Slashing Grace. Same number as the katana; only difference is that you can use anyone's Weapon Finesse feat for that one instead of needing Daring Champion or Swashbucklers' versions.
Don't forget exotic weapon prof.

Is necessary for both, so my point stands.

Though actually, as another thread went over, for a Swashbuckler you don't need EWP. Without EWP it's treated as a Longsword and isn't Finessable, but still usable with a martial weapons proficiency. So, take the standard three-feat chain and while it's not normally finessable, Slashing Grace + Swashbuckler's Finesse makes it so.

And then you can't actually use it as a Dueling Sword, but hey.


Dustyboy wrote:
Gisher wrote:
I suspect that you are thinking of Effortless Lace, from the Giant Hunter's Handbook. It is not PFS legal.
Is this posted on any of the SRDs? or is it not OGL? I didn't get the GHHB because i found it to be a bit too focused

I don't think it is posted. I just found the Pathfinder Society FAQ stating that Effortless Lace was not allowed.


Gisher wrote:
Dustyboy wrote:
Gisher wrote:
I suspect that you are thinking of Effortless Lace, from the Giant Hunter's Handbook. It is not PFS legal.
Is this posted on any of the SRDs? or is it not OGL? I didn't get the GHHB because i found it to be a bit too focused
I don't think it is posted. I just found the Pathfinder Society FAQ stating that Effortless Lace was not allowed.

That is a shame, the lace makes a ton of really cool new character ideas much easier to put together. Kudos to whoever wrote it. :)

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