I have the belief that nothing we see around us is real, and everything we see is just an elaborate illusion. Prove that you are real.
It was exhausting enough reading Descartes' thoughts on the subject, I doubt much has changed in the past 400 years to alter the discourse on this subject. It may be unsatisfying for you but for me this is a matter where faith is adequate. Taking some things as given opens up a bit of room to focus my mind on other matter.
Well, if you don't trust the input of your senses, then there is no way to prove to you that anything is real.
Of course, if you don't trust any of your senses, why are you hanging out on a gaming company's online message boards?
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Giving it a bit of thought it may not be so bad realizing that I'm a figment of someone else's imagination. I'm treated rather well as a figment, plenty of varying stimuli, constant new experiences, yet enough consistency that I feel I can make sense of the world. I can only hope that I'm adequately filling the role I was meant to fill.
Nonsense, the imagination that sustains us simply limited our powers.
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The interesting part of this is not the "you can't prove anything is real so there nyah nyah", but what it says about knowledge.
Going by Descarte's method, the only thing you will arrive at is "something exists". Congratulations, you now know the sum total of everything we can be absolutely, completely, 100%, totally, utterly certain of.
So, for everything else, we need to lower the bar a bit. Or a lot. That, however, DOESN'T MEAN IT'S UNTRUE, VALUELESS OR USELESS knowledge. All of human knowledge falls in this category, except "something exists".
So, all you would-be deconstructionists and tearers-down of the veil of rational thought: Give it up. The fact that almost all human knowledge isn't superiorly True doesn't mean we know nothing. We know a lot, and the difference between knowing that and not knowing it is enormous.
I think, therefore I am.
Descartes was a brilliant mathematician and quite possibly an exceptional philosopher. I still can't get past the feeling that cogito ergo sum stems from one of the most convoluted abuses of logic I've ever read. If Descartes couldn't handle this topic with dignity I'm not sure how much of a chance a large number of us has.
No.
Reply hazy, ask again later.
Surely, you're being paranoid.
If all this is your imagination... then you seriously need help.
Seeing as you're the one positing that I don't exist, the burden is on you to prove that I don't.
I have the belief that nothing we see around us is real, and everything we see is just an elaborate illusion. Prove that you are real.
Before I attempt it I need to understand the parameters I'm attempting to prove.
So please define "real" and I'll get back to you*.
- Torger
*Disclaimer, may not actually get back to you
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I'm not real. I'm an Eliza program hooked up to a psychological warfare computer.
I'm not real. I'm an Eliza program hooked up to a psychological warfare computer.
But are you a real program? :P
- Torger
Staring contest. First one to blink isn't real.
Go!
O_O
Steve Holt!
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MATT DAMON!
I have the belief that nothing we see around us is real, and everything we see is just an elaborate illusion. Prove that you are real.
Tell you what, how about instead of trying something as futile as proving my reality through a virtual interface, you do an experiment to test your theory yourself?
Go find yourself an illusion of a sturdy wall. Cinderblock, preferably. You go ahead and get a good running start, and go through it. Get back to us with the results of your test when you can.
I read in Physics class that matter only had a tendency to exist. What if...
...LordDeath is right?
Well, I am real. I don't need to prove that to myself. Some of you may be figments of my imagination...but if one wants to see if it matters or not...
Burn your hand off, it's going to hurt. When you are in that much pain...you can decide whether or not it really matters whether you are real or not...because the pain will be enough to make you realize that doesn't really matter.
On the otherhand, if it doesn't hurt at all...well...chances are you aren't real...either that or have a really bad neurological problem.
(PS: I don't REALLY want to have ANYONE burn themselves AT ALL. It is merely to point out that pain doesn't care what you think...and at the point of pain, it won't really matter as much to the one asking the question either).
Do the Guinan test. Drive a fork into your hand and then re-evaluate your feelings on the reality of the things around you.
I tried that on someone else once.* It only offered evidence that the person I stabbed was real.
* This is a true story. The moral is: "If you are an amoral passive-aggressive a&!$&%#, don't steal my french fries right in front of me and then smirk."
I drink therefore i am
I have the belief that nothing we see around us is real, and everything we see is just an elaborate illusion. Prove that you are real.
I'm part of the "we" you refer to in your opening sentence. By your own premise, we exist.
Am I real? Yes. /End Relations Module.
Just inflicting pain on yourself proves nothing. If the illusion is elaborate enough, then feeling pain would be just another aspect of the mirage. No, so far no one has proved this reality.
I know I'm real.
It's you I'm not so sure about.
Just inflicting pain on yourself proves nothing. If the illusion is elaborate enough, then feeling pain would be just another aspect of the mirage. No, so far no one has proved this reality.
In ordinary life, Ockham's razor is superior to proof anyhow.
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I thought this was going to be a thread about posting selfies.
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I think, therefore I am.Descartes was a brilliant mathematician and quite possibly an exceptional philosopher. I still can't get past the feeling that cogito ergo sum stems from one of the most convoluted abuses of logic I've ever read. If Descartes couldn't handle this topic with dignity I'm not sure how much of a chance a large number of us has.
Now, for some reason, you've made me start imagining that Descartes would be a serious munchkin...
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Just inflicting pain on yourself proves nothing. If the illusion is elaborate enough, then feeling pain would be just another aspect of the mirage. No, so far no one has proved this reality.
A few recent pop-culture examples would be the likes of Sword Art Online, Log Horizon, and even Wreck-it-Ralph. In the first two the characters are real people trapped in a computer which, over a period of time, becomes their reality, just as real to them as the one they came from. In Wreck-it-Ralph the characters of all our beloved arcade classics (and new Disney characters of course) live in an arcade world, and are aware of the human world outside, but don't seem to mind the difference in "realness."
Reality is what you make of it. I kinda wish mine had more swords and sorcery in it, but I'm making due thanks to the wonderful products by Pai--
...*static ensues*
Just inflicting pain on yourself proves nothing. If the illusion is elaborate enough, then feeling pain would be just another aspect of the mirage. No, so far no one has proved this reality.In ordinary life, Ockham's razor is superior to proof anyhow.
All other things being equal, do I have a beard? I could consider the relative effort and likelihood of growing and maintaining a beard vs the effort required to keep facial hair from growing out. Instead, I can just say that people of my gender rarely have a beard, therefore it is likely I don't either. Thanks Ockham's Razor!
Ockham's Razor: You'll never find a faster, more probable shave. ©
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I have the belief that nothing we see around us is real, and everything we see is just an elaborate illusion. Prove that you are real.
This is exactly the sort of brilliant mindbending I would expect from my own delusions. Your proof is invalid.
Just inflicting pain on yourself proves nothing. If the illusion is elaborate enough, then feeling pain would be just another aspect of the mirage. No, so far no one has proved this reality.In ordinary life, Ockham's razor is superior to proof anyhow.
The simplest hypothesis is usually either "You're completely wrong" (a.k.a. the null hypothesis) or "[Deity]/a wizard did it."
So, you're completely wrong because a wizard did it.
Just inflicting pain on yourself proves nothing. If the illusion is elaborate enough, then feeling pain would be just another aspect of the mirage. No, so far no one has proved this reality.
Pain is part of the senses. Senses are part of the mind. If they're fake, the mind may as well be fake. If all your senses are false, you must be a robot. Congratulations. I have tricked you into revealing yourself. Next!
I'm not actually real. I'm just a mass shared hallucination due to drugs in the water supply.
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Do you honestly think you're crazy enough to think ME up?
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I will acknowledge that BigNorseWolf is real. My mind is far too...tasteful to invent him.
