I haven't worked out the entire results of this but the basics are as follows: I will be able to run through a battlefield pulling AoOs but being able to take retaliatory ones before they hit me. When they are tripped, they will invoke an AoO (greater trip). When they fall prone they ground, they will invoke an AoO (viscious stomp). My retaliatory AoOs will be trips at CMB+6 or so
Panther style grants me as many retaliatory AoOs (pulled by invoking AoO) as my wisdom bonus.
Combat reflexes grants me as many AoOs as my Dex bonus.
I'm working with a Dex and Wis of 14 each (without magical boosters, so far)I figure it will go something like this:
I can get two AoOs. But if I'm sing panther style, I can get two retaliatory AoOs. Is that stuck at two or is it a total of four, where two must be retaliatory?
Most important: HOW DO I GET MORE. As it stands, lets say I'm surrounded by five squares. I decide to move 10 feet out. I invoke five AoOs. GREAT. Because I have a high chance to trip them all! And from there, I invoke 2 more AoOs. Heck, when they try to stand up, I can take another trip attempt during the AoO!
My biggest limitation is my number of AoOs! WHAT DO I DO!?
I recommend against Panther Style for this build, you can probably get a higher trip CMD by doing the OPPOSITE - using Acrobatics to tumble.
With Disorienting Maneuver, after using Acrobatics to tumble, you can get a +4 to trip CMB.
For combat style, Janni Tempest can provide another +4 to trip CMB.
Instead of going Fighter, you could easily go Brawler. You get to avoid the 13 INT prereq for Combat Expertise, your Brawler levels add to your Monk levels to qualify for style feats and the like, and you get Martial Flexibility to pick up feats to change your tripping styles as you go (Riptide Attack, Under and Over, etc.), all good choices.
In all likeness, you probably want to be an Underfoot Adept Monk -- those get to trip much larger creatures than available and get a good bonus to CMB. Plus, you get a free DEX bonus as a Halfling which calls for Weapon Finesse and Agile Maneuvers (but sadly not Fury's Fall).
I'll have to take a look at that build but part of my enjoyment of this build was in getting 4 AoOs for the price of provoking! (When he attacks, when he falls, when he lands, when he stands)
Then you should take a look into Cry Challenge - it allows you to provoke attacks of opportunity with 5 foot steps and provides a +4 bonus to AC when you do it (which stacks with Mobility and Underfoot (the feat)!).
That way, you can full-attack while provoking AoOs for Panther Style.
I recently posted a Rogue build around it -- the Scroll Scoundrel gets to treat enemies that miss on that AoO as flat-footed so that was the draw.
Panther style dosent give you more AoOs and calling them that Will only confuse you. Your trick Will be useless Against creatures langer than you(because of reach) You need 3 monk levels to get still mind for monastic legacy. The flowering monk May be worth a look.
Panther style dosent give you more AoOs and calling them that Will only confuse you. Your trick Will be useless Against creatures langer than you(because of reach)
The method to get more AoOs: get an ally and teach it (and yourself) paired opportunist and vicious stomp.
Combined with eventually Outflank, Improved Critical, and Seize the Moment.
Step 1: Flank
Step 2: Trip
Step 3: Free AoO for tripping (Greater Trip)
Step 4: Ally gets a free AoO off your AoO
Step 5: Free AoO for tripping (Vicious Stomp)
Step 6: Ally gets free AoO off your AoO
Step 7: Ally has free AoO for tripping (Vicious Stomp)
Step 8: You get an AoO for free from Ally's AoO
If any of the attacks are crits then the other party recieves two AoOs which gives the other party two AoOs and that can repeat indefinitely until one of you fails to crit or both of you run out of AoOs for the turn.
Panther style dosent give you more AoOs and calling them that Will only confuse you. Your trick Will be useless Against creatures langer than you(because of reach) You need 3 monk levels to get still mind for monastic legacy. The flowering monk May be worth a look.
This is my reading as well.
Panther style grants an unarmed strike, not an attack of opportunity.
On the bright side, these retaliatory strikes should also not count against your AoO limit.
Also, you cannot trip someone as they are standing from prone.
Rodinia, currently 6th level, fights with an AoO-based trip-heavy combat style in PFS play. It's outrageously effective. Rodinia uses a completely different combat approach than what the OP proposes, to accomplish very much the same thing. I'll describe her approach, so the OP learns about variant methods of accomplishing the same thing.
Another way to scoop up lots of AoOs:
Rodinia is a Battle Cleric of Erastil with the Feather and Growth domains. Rodinia carries a reach weapon and rides a large Animal Companion mount with reach. Both have Combat Reflexes and Paired Opportunists feats, for AoO goodness. Rodinia has DEX 14 and the mount has DEX 16, for 7 total AoOs. Reach plus the large mount gives a 30' diameter zone of control. We thus threaten thirty two (32) 5'x5' squares. Any foe who attempts to move (or do anything else that provokes an AoO) in this big area draws our wrath. About 80% of our total damage output, which is enormous, comes from AoOs. We don't have any trip-related feats, so we always trip from outside the foe's reach. Broken Wing Gambit is in our future, in a few more levels.
When a mook provokes an AoO here's how we often handle it:
* The mount uses its AoO for a trip attempt. Counting the +4 for Paired Opportunists it's usually around +14 CMB. If we have time to buff up in advance it's CMB will be +18 or better. The mount only hits for about 15 HP, so it's often worth giving up this damage for a trip. Trips usually work, and we've yet to provoke a single AoO in response, despite not having Improved Trip.
* Rodinia delivers a blow to the prone foe, typically at +10 to hit above normal, for about 25-30 HP damage. That's effectively +4 for prone, +4 for Paired Opportunists, +1 height advantage from being on a mount, & +1 trait bonus for polearm AoOs. 6th level to hit numbers on AoOs range from +12 to +23, depending on circumstances, so misses are rare. Damage is 1D12 for a lucerne hammer, +4 HP for STR 16, +6 HP for Power Attack, some other small bonuses, & +9 HP for divine buffs when able to pre-buff. Rodinia can also trip at reach, but it's not usually worth trading away 25-30 HP damage for a trip.
* The foe will eventually stand up, if it had more than 30 HP to start. This draws two more prone AoOs, for another 40 HP - 50 HP damage. Smart foes usually just stay down, which is also fine.
* If the foe actually wants to get close enough to attack, it's going to have to move in again, drawing more AoOs ...
* We are not interested in Vicious Stomp or anything else that only works adjacent. Our combat objective is to never let a foe get adjacent. That way only foes with reach can ever even attack us. This also keeps the squishy allies behind us quite safe.
* Our combat style denies foes the full attack. As a result, we take very few attacks and very little damage, despite having poor Armor Class. The only real threat to this arrangement are allies who wander into harms way. When an ally foolishly positions himself where he is about to take a drubbing, then Rodinia must make a difficult choice: Should she let the ally get spanked, and possibly die, because of his own stupidity, or should Rodinia deliberately share in the danger, in hopes of spreading out the damage and saving the foolish ally. This is the only time Rodinia takes a full attack.
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When we must fight a foe with reach, especially something Large and nasty, we respond by getting bigger. The Share Spells ability that goes with an Animal Companion allows Enlarge Person to affect a non-humanoid mount. Rodinia enlarges her mount to become Huge, giving it 15' reach. Rodinia enlarges herself with Swift Action Enlarge Person from the Plant (Growth) domain. The result is the same massive damage tripping machine we had, only more so and with 15' reach. We only get 5 combined AoOs when Huge/Large, but reach and damage are both greatly increased. In this mode we threaten one hundred twenty four (124) 5'x5' squares.
We always move such that foes never get a full attack, but we still get our paired AoOs. This allows us to easily demolish fearsome foes who have multiple attacks, such as ghouls, trolls, and yeti.
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Occasionally Rodinia will dismount and cast Swift Action Enlarge Person on self, to get 20' reach. Sometimes 20' reach is a tactical requirement, such as when foes approach down a long narrow corridor. In this case a favorite action is 'I ready an action to attack the first foe to come in reach.' This gives an automatic 2 attacks (for 30+ HP each) versus the first foe, with the chance for more AoOs on the next foe if it goes down from combined attacks.
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When it's our turn in initiative our actions are usually quite understated. We'll generally position ourselves to protect squishy allies. Sometimes we'll attack, but usually we just move to exactly the right place to block foes and scoop up lots of AoOs. In early combat rounds Rodinia often casts a spell.
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This approach has worked extremely well. In a recent run through Bone Keep we took a total of 24 AoOs. In two different combat rounds we used up all 7 AoOs. In one of these rounds we inflicted 189 HP damage with 7 AoOs and 2 normal attacks. Unsurprisingly, we cleared that level of Bone Keep with time and resources to spare. I still won't say it was easy.
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So, there's's an alternate answer to the question 'how do I get more attacks of opportunity'. It's not what the OP was looking for, but hopefully can provide some inspiration.
Additional Alternative way to do this tripping. This one you only need to take a 5ft step, occasionally.
Kensai Magus with a whip. 11th level you gain superior reflexes. Combines with Improved Whip mastery and Combat Reflexes, (Dex and Int of 14 each, but should both be higher) you have 5 AoO to use anywhere in a 10ft threatened space.
When they stand up, they provoke, which I am able to take advantage of to hammer them with some damage and I can disarm their weapon. Disarming is often more effective, as if they use weapons, they tend to need em to deal any damage, where as those who are just tripped, are only hindered by being unable to full attack.
Back to your specific question. You have 3 AoO a round. 1 because we all get 1, +2 for the 14 dex with combat reflexes. As others have stated, panther gives you unarmed strikes, not AoO.
You get another AoO when they stand up, but trip is not a valid option. They are already prone when you take the 'stand up' AoO. They take -4 on AC from being prone, so you generally want to attack for damage. You only get to trip again if they draw an AoO while not prone.
Rodnidia, out of curiosity, how important is growth domain to the cleric with animal buddy build. Could you possibly do it with feather domain alone and do evangelist for more to hit amd dmg buffs instead? Righteous might(late entry, I know), enlarges animal companions as well.
Growth domain is totally not important to the 'animal buddy' build. It was awesome until getting the full animal companion at 5th level, but provides little benefit when mounted. Rodinia uses it as an 'alternate approach' when the animal buddy approach has insufficient reach for the tactical situation. We rarely bother to both get big, because it's usually overkill.
Yes, the approach of having only one domain, and being an Evangelist archetype cleric, works a lot better than what I describe above. Both you and your mount get a constant +2 +2 or more, on top of all the other bonuses. Were I not allergic to retraining that's exactly what Rodinia would do.
You want AOOs huh? *cracks knuckles* Kensai Magus is what you want.
A kensai magus could could get quite a bit of AOOs. I thought about making one that gets around 14 a turn, but wasn't sure what i would do with them all. Just get a high dex, high int. Combat reflexes plus class ability. Nothing even that fancy to pull off.
If you need more then that, I don't know what you are trying to pull off and let me know if you actually run out.
A Kensai Magus with a valet familiar could be quite funny if the crits get going. The opponent only has to provoke an attack of opportunity for paired opportunist, your buddy doesn't even have to take it (and, well, its damage would be less than stellar anyway).
Rodinia/Magda, which ACs have reach? Just curious, but when I was looking at them I found a bunch of them that were large, but with 5 ft reach. Of course, my knowledge of ACs isn't exhaustive by any stretch.
Rodinia/Magda, which ACs have reach? Just curious, but when I was looking at them I found a bunch of them that were large, but with 5 ft reach. Of course, my knowledge of ACs isn't exhaustive by any stretch.
As far as I know, ACs don't list reach anywhere. The general rule of thumb is that large quadrupedal creatures have 5ft reach and large bipedal creatures have 10ft reach.
Rodinia/Magda, which ACs have reach? Just curious, but when I was looking at them I found a bunch of them that were large, but with 5 ft reach. Of course, my knowledge of ACs isn't exhaustive by any stretch.
As far as I know, ACs don't list reach anywhere. The general rule of thumb is that large quadrupedal creatures have 5ft reach and large bipedal creatures have 10ft reach.
I presumed you used the Beastiary entries for those creatures (the vast majority of them work out to be the correct size when they hit their 'growth spurt' at 4 or 7).
A Kensai Magus with a valet familiar could be quite funny if the crits get going. The opponent only has to provoke an attack of opportunity for paired opportunist, your buddy doesn't even have to take it (and, well, its damage would be less than stellar anyway).
The familiar need th threaten for this to work. That meens it must be at least small and in a position to figth. I dont like putting my familiars in the front Line.
Rodinia/Magda, which ACs have reach? Just curious, but when I was looking at them I found a bunch of them that were large, but with 5 ft reach. Of course, my knowledge of ACs isn't exhaustive by any stretch.
As far as I know, ACs don't list reach anywhere. The general rule of thumb is that large quadrupedal creatures have 5ft reach and large bipedal creatures have 10ft reach.
I presumed you used the Beastiary entries for those creatures (the vast majority of them work out to be the correct size when they hit their 'growth spurt' at 4 or 7).
Sure, that could work, but what if the bestiary creature is a different size like Anklyosaurus?
Creatures that are large or larger are either "tall" or "long." If they are "tall," they have a reach equal to their space. If they are "long," they have a reach 5 feet less than their space.
Rodinia/Magda, which ACs have reach? Just curious, but when I was looking at them I found a bunch of them that were large, but with 5 ft reach. Of course, my knowledge of ACs isn't exhaustive by any stretch.
As far as I know, ACs don't list reach anywhere. The general rule of thumb is that large quadrupedal creatures have 5ft reach and large bipedal creatures have 10ft reach.
I presumed you used the Beastiary entries for those creatures (the vast majority of them work out to be the correct size when they hit their 'growth spurt' at 4 or 7).
Sure, that could work, but what if the bestiary creature is a different size like Anklyosaurus?
When I GM or play in a home game, I extrapolate from their entry. Basically, what Avoron calls out, but if the creature has less reach then their size, they typically won't have reach at large. From my brief searching it is either the Ape or some of the Dinosaurs that have reach at large. But Like I said, I'm not exhaustive in my knowledge base (I've only played 2 characters with ACs and planning a third, which is relevant to this discussion because the idea is a build similar to Rodinia, just less focus on trip).
The following are large animal companions whose corresponding creatures appear to have reach equal to their space:
Crawling Vine
Sapling Treant
Allosaurus
Ankylosaurus
Ape
Axe Beak
Basilosaurus
Brachiosaurus
Giant Chameleon
Gar
Giraffe
Iguanodon
Manta Ray
Giant Mantis
Giant Moray Eel
Pachycephalosaurus
Parasaurolophus
Pteranodon
Quetzalcoatlus
Giant Scorpion
Giant Slug
Spinosaurus
Stegosaurus
Tortoise
Triceratops
Tylosaurus
Tyrannosaurus
There are also a few whose corresponding creatures appear to have reach greater than their space:
Diplodocus
Elasmosaurus
A Kensai Magus with a valet familiar could be quite funny if the crits get going. The opponent only has to provoke an attack of opportunity for paired opportunist, your buddy doesn't even have to take it (and, well, its damage would be less than stellar anyway).
The familiar need th threaten for this to work. That meens it must be at least small and in a position to figth. I dont like putting my familiars in the front Line.
It could be tiny, as long as it entered the opponent's square. It needs to threaten, not flank. A tiny one could still threaten with a spear sitting on your shoulders (I think). They can also just take full defense (can't AoO, but still threaten). He could also be just invisible and hang around.
If your entire goal is tripping, you might look into a dex build to get the extra AoO's, taking agile manuevers to use dex instead of str on trip attacks.
A little off topic, but one problem with Tripping I have is that you can't trip anybody 2 sizes bigger than you. To that end, I was thinking Punishing Kick. Punishing kick works sort of like Stunning Fist, except that instead of Stunning your opponent, you make him prone, which is not always as nice as Tripping him, but still nice, especially if you have Vicious Stomp.
My other thought about your Tripping character is that he seems to take a lot of levels before he actually starts tripping people.
I have another piece of advice. I don't 100% think you should do this, but it's worth thinking about. It's nice, but maybe not what you are looking for:
Consider taking 1 or more levels in Alchemist. You can whip up a Mutagen in an hour that you can take as a Move Action that will raise your Dex by 4 points. The downside is that it will also lower your Wisdom by 2 points, and that sort of works against your Panther Style Feats. On the other hand, even 1 single level in Alchemist can accomplish the same things as those 3 feats. Just by raising your Dex instead of building a whole other Wisdom-based platform, you can get more attacks and free up feat slots for other things. Also, even 1 level in Alchemist would allow you to use a Wand of Cat's Grace: 4 more Dex points which stack with your Mutagenic Dex points. 1 is an Alchemal bonus, the other Enhancement.
I wouldn't rely on Trip attempts to get more AoO's. Use Lunge feat from the Player's guide and/or Combat Patrol from the APG. These will increase your threat range and attack range thus giving you more chances to attack for damage.
Trip and Lunge are both ways to generate AoOs. They do this in completely different ways. Use both, whenever you can. It's not an 'either/or' thing. The 'barrier to entry' for Lunge is quite high. The 'barrier to entry' for trip is very low.
Lunge is a high level feat for specialists with at least BaB +6. Trip works right out the gate, at 1st level, with no feats required. A first level Commoner with a longspear can reliably generate AoOs with a trip attempt.
Trips mostly happen during AoOs. Foe moves, provokes an AoO, character trips. If the foe wishes to stand up, more AoOs. Any starting character can attempt to trip. Lacking the Improved Trip feat, just trip at reach.
Use Lunge during your own turn, once you are high level. Lunge allows you to attack your own turn (at -2) and possibly also get an AoO from enemy movement. Lunge requires a BaB +6. For a 3/4 BaB that's 8th level, so a 3/4 BaB character can take lunge at 9th level. That's approaching retirement. Also note that Lunge does not increase your threatened area outside your turn, so no AoOs at lunge distance. Similarly, Combat Patrol has so many prerequisites that only high level characters with feats to burn can consider it.
Lunge comes online at 9th level (7th level for full BaB characters), which is about when monster CMDs get so high that Trip stops working. At low and medium levels, trip is often the only option. At high levels, when trip ceases to work reliably, Lunge is the way to go.
