Targeting an invisible creature with True strike


Rules Questions


You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during your next attack. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target.

Does True strike also allow you to target the square an invisible creature is in?

Sovereign Court

Naysander Sune wrote:

You gain temporary, intuitive insight into the immediate future during your next attack. Your next single attack roll (if it is made before the end of the next round) gains a +20 insight bonus. Additionally, you are not affected by the miss chance that applies to attackers trying to strike a concealed target.

Does True strike also allow you to target the square an invisible creature is in?

if, by pure luck or foreknowledge, you know the square the intended target is in, then yes the miss chance is ignored.

If you intend to target a critter, but declare the wrong square, true strike doesn't help you. Not in any way I can see, at least.

It is interesting to change the question a little bit.

What happens when you attack "the critter in that square" when there are multiple invisible critters in the square (perhaps squeezing, or just a bunch of tiny critters), only one of which is the one you wanted to hit. I'm not so sure the true strike is going to completely work when you're targeting say an invisible stirge on your invisible friend's back. You might get that +20 and no miss chance on your buddy accidentally...

Scarab Sages

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You need a perception check or scent/blindsense/tremorsense to pinpoint the square first, then you can attack the square and ignore the concealment miss chance.

Lantern Lodge

Imbicatus wrote:
You need a perception check or scent/blindsense/tremorsense to pinpoint the square first, then you can attack the square and ignore the concealment miss chance.

What if your ally with the high perception mod (or just see invisibility) points it out to you first? :)

Sovereign Court

Genuine wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
You need a perception check or scent/blindsense/tremorsense to pinpoint the square first, then you can attack the square and ignore the concealment miss chance.
What if your ally with the high perception mod (or just see invisibility) points it out to you first? :)

Consider THAT table variation. At my table, an ally can only point out a square if it's adjacent to you. Just because your mini is on a map with nice square gridlines doesn't mean your character is. If I were to let two characters communicate the location within 5' accuracy to a third point some distance away from both of them, I'd set some silly knowledge/engineering DC for BOTH of them ;)


If you target the correct square yes. At least we always followed that interpretation while playing.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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deusvult wrote:
Genuine wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
You need a perception check or scent/blindsense/tremorsense to pinpoint the square first, then you can attack the square and ignore the concealment miss chance.
What if your ally with the high perception mod (or just see invisibility) points it out to you first? :)
Consider THAT table variation. At my table, an ally can only point out a square if it's adjacent to you. Just because your mini is on a map with nice square gridlines doesn't mean your character is. If I were to let two characters communicate the location within 5' accuracy to a third point some distance away from both of them, I'd set some silly knowledge/engineering DC for BOTH of them ;)

I could see that in an open meadow, but I find that most combat maps have enough things that you could point and say "Right next to the X" or similar.


deusvult wrote:
Genuine wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
You need a perception check or scent/blindsense/tremorsense to pinpoint the square first, then you can attack the square and ignore the concealment miss chance.
What if your ally with the high perception mod (or just see invisibility) points it out to you first? :)
Consider THAT table variation. At my table, an ally can only point out a square if it's adjacent to you. Just because your mini is on a map with nice square gridlines doesn't mean your character is. If I were to let two characters communicate the location within 5' accuracy to a third point some distance away from both of them, I'd set some silly knowledge/engineering DC for BOTH of them ;)

Invisible tarrasque at 5 o'clock?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Wait, why is this in Advice instead of Rules Questions?

No, wait, correction: why is this in Advice AND Rules Questions?

Sovereign Court

Jiggy wrote:
deusvult wrote:
Genuine wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
You need a perception check or scent/blindsense/tremorsense to pinpoint the square first, then you can attack the square and ignore the concealment miss chance.
What if your ally with the high perception mod (or just see invisibility) points it out to you first? :)
Consider THAT table variation. At my table, an ally can only point out a square if it's adjacent to you. Just because your mini is on a map with nice square gridlines doesn't mean your character is. If I were to let two characters communicate the location within 5' accuracy to a third point some distance away from both of them, I'd set some silly knowledge/engineering DC for BOTH of them ;)
I could see that in an open meadow, but I find that most combat maps have enough things that you could point and say "Right next to the X" or similar.

If the invisible critter is silly enough to stand in a doorway or something when someone can clearly see it, and is yelling to its friends and pointing, then it deserves to have its location identified. I think if you're smart enough to cast invisibility, you're probably smart enough to use it intelligently, too :)

But, yes, you do have a point in that some terrain would offer easier communication to describe invisible critters' locations than others.

Sovereign Court

Exactly. True strike does not grant a bypass around correctly knowing (or guessing) what square the invisible baddie is in.


Yeah if you know where he is it should work...
I have had gm's who let it bypass invisiblity to hit (there by showing where the invisi is for one round by process if anyone pays attention).
The reason being the spell gives insight in to the future so they kinda figured it shows you all the ways you could strike to find the right way to strike. So they just extended that meaning more. Doesn't give anything else (since you don't actually see the future. you just kinda "feel i should attack here at this moment in this way, with this twist of my weapon" .
but raw it only gives +20 to hit and ignores concealment's miss chance.
i've still mised with true strike amusingly.

Sovereign Court

Sweet. Never noticed the miss chance negation!


Thanks for the feedback!


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Combine that with scent so you know the correct square, and invisible creatures will tremble before you.


Gwen Smith wrote:
Combine that with scent so you know the correct square, and invisible creatures will tremble before you.

But ... how would you know?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

From a distance Scent gives you direction to target and rough area they might be in. IF you ware within 5' you can pinpoint the square they are in.

Quote:

Scent

This extraordinary ability lets a creature detect approaching enemies, sniff out hidden foes, and track by sense of smell.

A creature with the scent ability can detect opponents by sense of smell, generally within 30 feet. If the opponent is upwind, the range is 60 feet. If it is downwind, the range is 15 feet. Strong scents, such as smoke or rotting garbage, can be detected at twice the ranges noted above. Overpowering scents, such as skunk musk or troglodyte stench, can be detected at three times these ranges.

The creature detects another creature's presence but not its specific location. Noting the direction of the scent is a move action. If the creature moves within 5 feet (1 square) of the scent's source, the creature can pinpoint the area that the source occupies, even if it cannot be seen.

A creature with the Survival skill and the scent ability can follow tracks by smell, making a Survival check to find or follow a track. A creature with the scent ability can attempt to follow tracks using Survival untrained. The typical DC for a fresh trail is 10. The DC increases or decreases depending on how strong the quarry's odor is, the number of creatures, and the age of the trail. For each hour that the trail is cold, the DC increases by 2. The ability otherwise follows the rules for the Survival skill in regards to tracking. Creatures tracking by scent ignore the effects of surface conditions and poor visibility.

Creatures with the scent ability can identify familiar odors just as humans do familiar sights.

Water, particularly running water, ruins a trail for air-breathing creatures. Water-breathing creatures that have the scent ability, however, can use it in the water easily.

False, powerful odors can easily mask other scents. The presence of such an odor completely spoils the ability to properly detect or identify creatures, and the base Survival DC to track becomes 20 rather than 10.


Of course, a creature that is 5' away from you and strikes you in melee reveals his position so, you don't need scent.


How would you know they were trembling ...


Tremorsense. :P


fretgod99 wrote:
How would you know they were trembling ...

Instead of using Scent, use the monster version: Scent of Fear. This allows you to both detect which square (30 ft range) and if anyone is shaken or frightened.

Paizo Glitterati Robot

Merged threads.

Grand Lodge

Gilarius wrote:
fretgod99 wrote:
How would you know they were trembling ...
Instead of using Scent, use the monster version: Scent of Fear. This allows you to both detect which square (30 ft range) and if anyone is shaken or frightened.

Saddly gotta be evil (for some reason) for Scent of Fear.

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