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The vast majority of 4th level characters have pounce as you only have one attack at that level.
The vast majority of 4th level characters have pounce as you only have one attack at that level.
Not true! You can always TWF without the feats. This is almost universally a terrible idea, but you can!
you can full attack while mounted too…since you aren't the one moving.No. Need the feat Mounted Skirmisher for that.
you can still do it tho
Rangers can do it at 10th level.
Dimensional savant comes on line at 13th level at the earliest.
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you can full attack while mounted too…since you aren't the one moving.No. Need the feat Mounted Skirmisher for that.you can still do it tho
Rangers can do it at 10th level.
Dimensional savant comes on line at 13th level at the earliest.
Sohei monks can do it at level one.
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The people in this thread are pissed because I have convincingly argued that the existing mechanic is not in line with other similar game mechanics.
I can't speak for others, but the only thing I might be pissed about is the act that you haven't convincingly done anything, but still brazenly act as if you have.
The problem is that you are leaping on the principle of the thing (OH NO! POUNCE AT LEVEL 4!) and ignoring the reality of it. In reality, it costs a spell slot--a 2nd level spell slot--and you take a -2 penalty to hit on both attacks (though likely cancel that penalty and get a small bonus on one of them). The Magus' two attacs are probably doing something like 1d6+3 or maybe 4 each. 2d6+maybe 8, for 15 average.
For the same 2nd level slot, you could have just cast Frostbie and hit once for 5d6+3 or 4 (20.5 average) AND staggering the other guy.
Hell, for a 1st level slot, you could have done the same damage without the stagger with Shocking Grasp (and probably gotten a bonus to hit from them wearing metal).
Meanwhile, a level 4 Fighter or Barbarian with a Greatsword and Power Attack is landing 2d6+12 (19 average) on a normal swing.
So, even if you find it outrageous in theory, in practice, in reality, it's WORSE than just having a full BAB and a Greatsword.
Sohei monks can do it at level one.you can full attack while mounted too…since you aren't the one moving.No. Need the feat Mounted Skirmisher for that.you can still do it tho
Rangers can do it at 10th level.
Dimensional savant comes on line at 13th level at the earliest.
Do what?
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you can full attack while mounted too…since you aren't the one moving.No. Need the feat Mounted Skirmisher for that.you can still do it tho
Rangers can do it at 10th level.
Dimensional savant comes on line at 13th level at the earliest.
How does listing the Ranger at 10th level (which gives you Mounted Skirmisher) make make me wrong about saying that you need Mounted Skirmisher?
And Dimensional Savant has nothing to do with being Mounted, not sure why you brought that up.
Pendagast, he's referring to the fact that soheis can get Mounted Skirmisher as a bonus feat at level 1 without meeting the prerequisites.
0.o they CAN?
where? how did I miss that?
show meeee the way!
you can full attack while mounted too…since you aren't the one moving.No. Need the feat Mounted Skirmisher for that.you can still do it tho
Rangers can do it at 10th level.
Dimensional savant comes on line at 13th level at the earliest.
How does listing the Ranger at 10th level (which gives you Mounted Skirmisher) make make me wrong about saying that you need Mounted Skirmisher?
And Dimensional Savant has nothing to do with being Mounted, not sure why you brought that up.
I didn't say you were wrong… my point only being that you can do it (without pounce) that there re a few ways to arrive at full attacking and full movement.
dimensional savant is probably the most fun way…albeit less powerful than others (even if situationally more useful from time to time)mounted combat style ranger is about my favorite way to get there, only because you aren't forced to pick up the stupid prereq feats which are annoying and almost useless.
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Do what?Sohei monks can do it at level one.you can full attack while mounted too…since you aren't the one moving.No. Need the feat Mounted Skirmisher for that.you can still do it tho
Rangers can do it at 10th level.
Dimensional savant comes on line at 13th level at the earliest.
Sohei monks can take Mounted Skirmisher as a bonus feat at level one.
Sohei monks can take Mounted Skirmisher as a bonus feat at level one.Do what?Sohei monks can do it at level one.you can full attack while mounted too…since you aren't the one moving.No. Need the feat Mounted Skirmisher for that.you can still do it tho
Rangers can do it at 10th level.
Dimensional savant comes on line at 13th level at the earliest.
yea…I completely missed that.
too many books to fumble through… missed the part where the standard monk can ignore prereqs for their bonus feats.
Makes sohei almost a mandatory dip for some a character I've been trying to build for a while.
Does the use of armor inhibit their bonus feat like a rangers combat style or no?
Been wanting to build a dwarf mounted skirmisher for a while!
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No, armor has no effect on a monks bonus feat. You can even flurry in light armor thanks to this FAQ.
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No, armor has no effect on a monks bonus feat. You can even flurry in light armor thanks to this FAQ.
Yeah, Sohei's are awesome. I'm playing a mounted Hunter in PFS right now that dipped two levels of sohei to grab up Mounted Skirmisher and Trick Riding like 6 levels early.
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6 levels of Sohei and not only can you pick up Mounted Skirmisher, but you can "Flurry of Polearms".
Their ability to grant ki powers to their mount is awesome, too.
Pick up Animal Ally (you can afford the feat tax) and you can be a truly horrifying mounted combatant.
But, now we're getting off-topic.
No, armor has no effect on a monks bonus feat. You can even flurry in light armor thanks to this FAQ.
You have no idea how happy that makes me to see that.
No, armor has no effect on a monks bonus feat. You can even flurry in light armor thanks to this FAQ.You have no idea how happy that makes me to see that.
yea… me too does this apply to shields as well?
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yea… me too does this apply to shields as well?No, armor has no effect on a monks bonus feat. You can even flurry in light armor thanks to this FAQ.You have no idea how happy that makes me to see that.
It does not.
However, be warned, the author of Sohei said that the Sohei was not intended to be able to use flurry with light armor, and RAW he cannot. It was only the FAQ that says that. One side has RAW and RAI on it's side, the other has the FAQ on it's side. So GM's could really go either way on that one so expect variation.
Actually, it can/could flurry by RAW, even in heavy, the reason being that being unable to use flurry in armor was part of the weapon/armor profs blurb monks had, and sohei replaces that. Author intent was not in any armor, FAQ is a compromise I guess.
You are - frighteningly enough - correct.
Though the author's minted - "Sure, you're proficient with light armor. Just.. don't wear it, unless you wanna lose all class bonuses."
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Actually, it can/could flurry by RAW, even in heavy, the reason being that being unable to use flurry in armor was part of the weapon/armor profs blurb monks had, and sohei replaces that. Author intent was not in any armor, FAQ is a compromise I guess.
Well, that's arguable. The debate largely based around whether the proficiencies blurb actually replaces or merely modifies the existing. Archetypes are always supposed to say whether they replace or modify, but that particular one left that part out. Sohei is just a particularly badly written one.
Sohei is just a particularly badly written one.
Still beats Bolt Ace! Narrowly.
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Nothing is worse than Tetori. Locked in bonus feats that don't exist. And then there is the Ecclesitheurge who has an entire class ability that doesn't exist.Sohei is just a particularly badly written one.Still beats Bolt Ace! Narrowly.
Wow, I never read the Ecclecsitheurge until now. That is pretty crazy.
Nothing is worse than Tetori. Locked in bonus feats that don't exist.Sohei is just a particularly badly written one.Still beats Bolt Ace! Narrowly.
Say what? All the feats I see for Tetori exist.
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so in your mind, if there are melee combatants between me and that wizard I want to charge, bladed dash lets me by pass the enemy in my lane?Likewise if there is a river, or a wall of force…I can just bladed dash in a straight line instantly, ignoring all obstacles?
I'm not sure about Wall of Force, but when I was playing my Magus, to my mind, the GM's mind, and everyone else at the table, yes to all the others. I would routinely use it to get behind tough enemies to set up flanking. And it's not just my gaming group - there was a thread a while back about casting Bladed Dash while grappled and everyone seemed to think it would work fine so long as you made the concentration check.
I guess it didn't even occur to any of us that the instant movement allowed by the spell might be subject to normal movement rules. But even then the spell isn't overpowered. Useful, yes. Situational, absolutely.
Bladed Dash
School transmutation; Level bard 2, magus 2
CASTINGCasting Time 1 standard action
Components V
EFFECTRange personal
Target you Duration instantaneousWhen you cast this spell, you immediately move up to 30 feet in a straight line any direction[b], momentarily leaving a multi-hued cascade of images behind you. [b]This movement[b] does not provoke attacks of opportunity. You may make a single melee attack at your highest base attack bonus against any one creature you are adjacent to at any point along this 30 feet. You gain a circumstance bonus on your attack roll equal to your Intelligence or Charisma modifier, whichever is higher. You must end the [b]bonus movement granted by this spell in an unoccupied square. If no such space is available along the trajectory, the spell fails. Despite the name, the spell works with any melee weapon.
Movement, not teletransportation.
You can move in any direction, so it can be straight up or over a chasm, but you can't move though solid objects or an enemy.
The spell strongly implies that you can move through enemy occupied squares.
You must end the bonus movement granted by this spell in an unoccupied square. If no such space is available along the trajectory, the spell fails.
It is still normal movement not teleporting. Nothing implies that you can phase through people or objects.
Saying you can move from point A to point B, does not mean you can ignore anything in between point A to point B unless you have a rule saying you can.
The spell strongly implies that you can move through enemy occupied squares.
You must end the bonus movement granted by this spell in an unoccupied square. If no such space is available along the trajectory, the spell fails.It is still normal movement not teleporting. Nothing implies that you can phase through people or objects.
Saying you can move from point A to point B, does not mean you can ignore anything in between point A to point B unless you have a rule saying you can.
I've heard of people using it to zip straight up into the air to attack flying enemies. Guess they were wrong too.
I've heard of people using it to zip straight up into the air to attack flying enemies. Guess they were wrong too.The spell strongly implies that you can move through enemy occupied squares.
You must end the bonus movement granted by this spell in an unoccupied square. If no such space is available along the trajectory, the spell fails.It is still normal movement not teleporting. Nothing implies that you can phase through people or objects.
Saying you can move from point A to point B, does not mean you can ignore anything in between point A to point B unless you have a rule saying you can.
At what point did I say that was not possible?
I thought you were implying that it couldn't take you where you couldn't go normally.
I thought you were implying that it couldn't take you where you couldn't go normally.
To me it looks like you would be unable to move 30 feet into the air unless you already could. It seems to me you would need to use Force Hook Charge, a slightly higher level spell with its own additional benefits and downsides, to do that.
I thought you were implying that it couldn't take you where you couldn't go normally.
To some extent yes. I think you can move in any direction. I just don't think you can pass through anything or anyone since it is movement, and not teleportation.
This is what I imagine Asuna from Sword Art Online uses a lot. That dashing attack thing that bypasses a lot. It's not teleporting but she's really good at moving over most terrainNice reference.
Yeah, zip through a crowd of enemies, attack one along the way, end up in an unoccupied square. It would be pretty bizarre to reference the unoccupied square thing at the end if occupied square traversal were only allowed for allies along your path, especially considering how the spell references attacking enemies along the way.
That's why I think RAI is pretty clear.
You can do that by moving adjacent to them, and when the devs intend for you to break a rule they normally say it directly.
Example:
Dragon Style (Combat, Style)
You call upon the spirit of dragonkind, gaining greater resilience, mobility, and fierceness from the blessing of these great beings.Prerequisites: Str 15, Improved Unarmed Strike, Acrobatics 3 ranks.
Benefit: While using this style, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against sleep effects, paralysis effects, and stunning effects. You ignore difficult terrain when you charge, run, or withdraw. You can also charge through squares that contain allies. ......
Now of course they could have forgotten to mention it, but as written nothing is allowing you to go through an opponent's square.