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The basic idea here is for someone who can go to a fancy cocktail party without raising eyes, so actually dumping charisma, or some odd race like wayang, is out. Further, I don't want to be too dependent on any one piece of equipment, and the total dependence on rapiers that the Inspired Swashbuckler gets you makes me uncomfortable.
Race: Aasimar (Angelkin): +2 Str and Cha. We can dump Cha a bit without it showing. The Alter Self SLA will be very useful.
Alternate racial trait: Scion of Humanity. We can pretend to be fully human without Disguise checks. But we still have Darkvision :)
Alternate racial trait: Truespeaker. Because it's fun, and the bonuses are more relevant than Angelkin-Skilled.
Str 16 (5bp)
Dex 14 (5bp)
Con 12 (2bp)
Int 16 (10bp)
Wis 10
Cha 10 (-2bp)
Class: single-classed Investigator (Empiricist).
Traits: Student of Philosophy (effectively a +3 to Diplomacy and Bluff) and Inspired (one free reroll on a skill per day is great on a skill monkey). Alternatively, Shoanti Tattoo for Earthbreaker proficiency.
Levels:
1) Combat Reflexes. You already have a variety of combat tricks: Alter Self SLA into a troglodyte gets you a respectable 3 natural attacks. Long Arm gives you some battlefield control. A longspear even more, and you have a bite attack against anyone who comes too close. Alternatively, you use Enlarge Person with Long Arm and swordcane to control a 15ft. radius with Combat Reflexes.
2) Nothing to see here, move along. Level up as fast as you can. This is the boring level.
3) Power Attack, Infusion.
4) Now we're talking. We get Alter Self as an extract and Studied Combat. Your preferred fight form will be a troglodyte. +1 Str.
5) Quick Study. You might want to pick up Potion Glutton (if you swing that way) or Arcane Strike, or Extra Talent because there's quite a few good ones available, like Mutagen.
6) Move along...
7) Now we get Monstrous Physique I, and our preferred fighting form will be a Popobala, for five strong natural attacks. Combine Extracts lets you put Shield + Long Arm into a single extract, that's also good for action economy.
8) +1 Str.
9) Take a feat, any feat. Consider taking Combat Inspiration and an Inspired Amulet of Mighty Fists.
10) At this point I just wanna use Monstrous Physique II to turn into Grendel. With Long Arm you have Reach 15 claws that do 3d10 base each and a 10ft 4d8 bite. Your strength chould be 16 +2 level + 4 mutagen +4 size +2 belt = 28. You're power attacking and using studied combat, that's a +19 to hit and +18 damage.
"I dunno, he seemed like a nice quiet man. But I've heard he's a mean drunk..."
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Magic items done, just a huge copypaste.
For builds, I have 4 that I'm considering working on, Reach/Natural for Str, and Finesse/Ranged for Dex.
I'm thinking a feat/talent skeleton should be enough for them though, since that's the best things you can control yourself. No dipping or races included to make them as inclusive as possible, which means ranged won't really go off until 7th/9th level...yeah...
@Ascalaphus: Your guide is now in both of my guides, feel free to throw a link from your guide to my Alch one, since you do have specific Alch raitings.
Check out the Investigator's Hat too. It's not crazy useful but probably worth mentioning. It'll manage to save some Inspiration points.
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Check out the Investigator's Hat too. It's not crazy useful but probably worth mentioning. It'll manage to save some Inspiration points.
And added. Finally getting to sample builds (I don't know WHY I hate doing them, but I do), as well as working on a NEW project. After this one, I'll almost be finished with PF Bingo, since I'll have a guide on:
Core: Barbarian
APG: Alchemist/Synthesis
Ult Combat: ???
Ult Magic: ???
ACG: Investigator
New guide is on the wings, everyone.
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You say that your builds are designed to be as widely applicable as possible, but your strength build has Potion Glutton, which requires worshiping Urgathoa.
That's...not widely applicable, and will be disallowed by a large percentage of GMs.
The feat is impossibly good, and if you told a GM who didn't know about the requirement that you were taking it, they'd have no idea or concept of it being an evil deity worshiping feat. The guide is intended for a neutral setting (so any setting), which makes the listed prereqs (which are oddly specific) needless.
At worst, I'd say start any feat tree you're on earlier and then sub it out for Toughness, since there's no other feat that comes close to what this feat offers.
You mentioned the dagger and short sword as being the best dual wielding weapons in your guide. Do you believe the investigator can do well dual wielding, or is it a sub-par build to the single weapon dex build?
Not the author but I personally despise the single weapon dex build.
Some numbers to think about.
Assuming two identical investigators in terms of stats (14 str, 18 dex) and adding nothing else save studied combat and feats. We'll give them identical talents as well (Mutagen and Quick Study though personally I'm loath to use mutagen until later levels on an investigator.).
Dex Guy:
1 Weapon Finnesse
3 Weapon Focus (Rapier)
5 Fencing Grace
Looking at a +10 1d6+6/18-20 attack sequence at level 5 while studying. In all fairness this is not bad. A 60% chance to hit an at level CR critter is hardly anything terrible.
DPR: 5.12
TWF Guy
1 Weapon Finnesse
3 Two Weapon Fighting
5 Arcane Strike
Here we see a +7/+7 1d6+6/1d6+5 19-20. If you're concerned about action economy consider that you can use studied combat as a move action or simply choose not to use one or the other if you require yourself to move. Chances are if you're moving you'll only get one attack anyway.
DPR: 9.35
These characters will have identical bonuses to reflex and AC from Dexterity so the argument for that goes out the window.
So I get more DPR but only really on full attacks?
Well it goes deeper than that. Consider for a moment that natural attacks also benefit from weapon finnesse, arcane strike, studied combat etc. and then you start seeing why I like my investigators INT based shapeshifters or elven short sword wielders. Transforming into a small critter with something like monstrous physique does not punish my strength so I lose no damage and gain a lot of attack in addition to getting some more natural attacks on top of my short swords. Mr. Pokey can do the same and end up losing out even more since his weapon focus and fancy fencing don't apply to bite attacks it turns out.
On top of this even in rounds where I'm limited to one attack I'm doing about as much if not the same amount of damage as Mr. Pokey. Even critting doesn't help mr. pokey much since studied combat damage does not in fact multiply on a crit.
So no, I dislike the single weapon build. It's a gimmick that functions well on a swashbuckler or certain class archetypes *cough*daringchampion*cough* but does poorly out of that limited arena.
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You mentioned the dagger and short sword as being the best dual wielding weapons in your guide. Do you believe the investigator can do well dual wielding, or is it a sub-par build to the single weapon dex build?
For normal weapons, I'd say those are the best if you're not dipping unless you're willing to dump 5k for two Effortless Laces (which I recommend, that item is hype). In that case, two rapiers/scimitars are entirely fine, since they're considered light as well as having great expandable crit ranges. You're still burning 3 feats (W. Focus/W. Finesse/Slashing or Fencing Grace), but the crit range on these weapons is great.
Actually, thanks to Effortless Lace, there's really no reason to dip Swashbuckler thanks to Effortless Lace, I'm going to have to update this in the guide.
TWF dex is hype since you're not losing 1/2 your dex for off hand, adding into the fact that you're getting flat bonuses on all attack/damage rolls, which is the thing that makes TWF word doing.
And Tark's analysis is spot on, singleton dex builds aren't hype, and shouldn't be considered hype by those who appreciate hype things.
If you think your character is going to make it into high levels, dex based builds are a trap. Once you can turn into a gargoyle, troll or giant, you're going to wish you went with a strength build.
If you know the campaign won't go past level 8-10 or so, dex builds are fine.
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If you think your character is going to make it into high levels, dex based builds are a trap. Once you can turn into a gargoyle, troll or giant, you're going to wish you went with a strength build.
If you know the campaign won't go past level 8-10 or so, dex builds are fine.
I wouldn't say a trap, as you still benefit from high AC/Reflex/Initiative, but if you're looking for raw power, yeah. Transformative extracts are too hype, and I believe 4 armed Gargoyle beats out 2 headed troll myself, although not by much.
It's not a trap, but if you plan on Hyding up, you're going to want to prepare with a nice AOMF to make those attacks hurt more and get through DR, since a lot of high level creatures have DR, and without some bonuses to it, all of your attacks are going to get blunted hard.
If you think your character is going to make it into high levels, dex based builds are a trap. Once you can turn into a gargoyle, troll or giant, you're going to wish you went with a strength build.
If you know the campaign won't go past level 8-10 or so, dex builds are fine.
Eh, I prefer Int based builds myself. Int has so much synergy with so many different things. TWF, or just straight up natural attacks just exist to get me as many attacks as possible to maximize studied combat use.
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Not the author but I personally despise the single weapon dex build.
Some numbers to think about.
Assuming two identical investigators in terms of stats (14 str, 18 dex) and adding nothing else save studied combat and feats. We'll give them identical talents as well (Mutagen and Quick Study though personally I'm loath to use mutagen until later levels on an investigator.).
Your TWF build uses Arcane Strike. How? Investigators don't inherently get any spell-likes to use it with. Are you burning a Trait on it? Because there are a lot of good traits. Also, Arcane Strike and Quick Study-ing use the same action, further reducing the chances to actually use your theoretically superior DPR.
Also, by my calculations, the first build actually has 7.1 DPR, while the TWF guy has 9.9 even firing on all cylinders (both going by this)...but the 'identical stats' assumes Str 14 on the Dex guy, which is a bit of an assumption (since he's got no reason not to use those stat points elsewhere) unless he's going for Power Attack...in which case, assuming both take Power Attack at level 7 (and make no other changes in gear or anything), the fencing build has 10.1, and the TWF build going all-out 12.87.
And once again, that's on a Full Attack, on a turn where they aren't fighting a new opponent.
I still personally prefer a Str build, but if going Dex, the Fencing Grace build is valid.
These characters will have identical bonuses to reflex and AC from Dexterity so the argument for that goes out the window.
The single weapon guy has a Buckler. That's not a huge deal for an Investigator, I admit, but it helps their unbuffed AC a bit.
Also, by my calculations, the first build actually has 7.1 DPR, while the TWF guy has 9.9 even firing on all cylinders (both going by this)...but the 'identical stats' assumes Str 14 on the Dex guy, which is a bit of an assumption (since he's got no reason not to use those stat points elsewhere) unless he's going for Power Attack...in which case, assuming both take Power Attack at level 7 (and make no other changes in gear or anything), the fencing build has 10.1, and the TWF build going all-out 12.87.
And once again, that's on a Full Attack, on a turn where they aren't fighting a new opponent.
I still personally prefer a Str build, but if going Dex, the Fencing Grace build is valid.
I use Elves with Envoy, Half Drow Half Elves, tieflings, Aasimars, you can go gnome for it too if you really wanted. It's not difficult at all to get arcnae strike. Even if you want to play human you can just hold of on the mutagen and get Minor Magic.
The 14 str build was for practicality purposes. You weren't going to full anyone at level 1-3 trying to be a melee character with less.
And as I already said Quick Study does not erase your ability to study as a move action. The only time this makes much difference to either character is when moving from opponent to opponent.
And no, no buckler for you. Investigators aren't proficient in shields.
Lastly, bear in mind the main point is isn't really about damage. The point is about burning three feats to remove flexibility for not a whole lot of gain.
And yes strength builds are better for pure combat. Especially early to midgame. LAte game I believe favors the INT build by dint of having so many advantages in other areas.
One thing I forgot I sued the exact same thing to get my DPR numbers. Did you take into account studied combat damage does not multiply on a crit?
And no, no buckler for you. Investigators aren't proficient in shields.If I understand the rules correctly, a masterwork buckler has 0 ACP and can be used by anyone.
You can and you can certainly get away with it (I actually meant to delete that before submitting honestly since it made no difference) though I somewhat despise that sort of cheese as insulting to the actual usage of bucklers.
Just saw the guide. Good work ^^
And what a coincidence: I started playing Justice for all a couple of days ago. So far, I'm liking it less than the first game (the first case was just dumb <.<).
/Phoenix Wright OT off
No love for Sylphs in the Race section? Same attributes as elves, and they have some nice racial traits, like a +2 against non-magical ranged attacks and a +5ft movement bonus. They also have a two-feat chain that grants perma-flight as long as you're wearing light or no armor, something that an investigator will be using in most cases.
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Just saw the guide. Good work ^^
And what a coincidence: I started playing Justice for all a couple of days ago. So far, I'm liking it less than the first game (the first case was just dumb <.<).
/Phoenix Wright OT offNo love for Sylphs in the Race section? Same attributes as elves, and they have some nice racial traits, like a +2 against non-magical ranged attacks and a +5ft movement bonus. They also have a two-feat chain that grants perma-flight as long as you're wearing light or no armor, something that an investigator will be using in most cases.
At least it's not Big Top Turnabout (Ugh...)
And I might have to give them another look, I've been busy working on my Gunslinger guide too, so I haven't given proper attention to all of my other guides.
One day I may actually repolish my Barb Guide too, it's so damn ugly...
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I use Elves with Envoy, Half Drow Half Elves, tieflings, Aasimars, you can go gnome for it too if you really wanted. It's not difficult at all to get arcnae strike. Even if you want to play human you can just hold of on the mutagen and get Minor Magic.
Sure, you can do that. But necessitating it to make a build viable is poor policy, IMO.
The 14 str build was for practicality purposes. You weren't going to full anyone at level 1-3 trying to be a melee character with less.
Eh, I suppose. It's pretty workable to not focus on combat for those levels, though.
And as I already said Quick Study does not erase your ability to study as a move action. The only time this makes much difference to either character is when moving from opponent to opponent.
Sure, but if you're already in melee with multiple people, it kinda screws you.
And no, no buckler for you. Investigators aren't proficient in shields.
Masterwork fixes that.
Lastly, bear in mind the main point is isn't really about damage. The point is about burning three feats to remove flexibility for not a whole lot of gain.
I agree to some degree...but you can get two of them with a one level dip in Inspired Blade, which has other benefits. No such soltion is as readily available for the TWF build.
And yes strength builds are better for pure combat. Especially early to midgame. LAte game I believe favors the INT build by dint of having so many advantages in other areas.
Depends on where you draw the line between Str and Int builds. My ideal build would have at least a 16 in both.
Which is eminently workable.
One thing I forgot I sued the exact same thing to get my DPR numbers. Did you take into account studied combat damage does not multiply on a crit?
Shit, you're right, I didn't. Still, fixing that, it comes out at 6.9 for the rapier guy and 9.7 for the TWF guy. Or 9.74 and 12.6 with Power Attack...so both numbers go down roughly proportionately.
Did you input a number for critical multiplier? It doesn't default to x2, so you really need to plug in that 2.
Sure, you can do that. But necessitating it to make a build viable is poor policy, IMO.
You mean like relying on a single weapon and class dip? :)
Sure, but if you're already in melee with multiple people, it kinda screws you.
If you find this happening often Domino Effect helps that. On rounds where you're already studied it makes no difference.
I agree to some degree...but you can get two of them with a one level dip in Inspired Blade, which has other benefits. No such solution is as readily available for the TWF build.
No solution is really necessary either.
Depends on where you draw the line between Str and Int builds. My ideal build would have at least a 16 in both.
Ideal maybe but I think having an 18 in strength is incredibly important since it's the difference between +3/4 attack/damage and +4/6. Since an INT combat build wants more attacks that means no two handing making the 16-18 difference not as necessary.
S%++, you're right, I didn't. Still, fixing that, it comes out at 6.9 for the rapier guy and...
Can't remember if I did or not. Does it have to be "x2" or can you just input 2?
Do you happen to have an example of an Int build with natural weapons? I plan to make an Investigator Tiefling and would like your take
I do and I'll post it a bit later.
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You mean like relying on a single weapon and class dip? :)
The Class dip is useful, not necessary per se. And all PCs eventually rely on a single weapon. Magic weapons are too expensive for it to be otherwise.
Relying on it more is potentially annoying, but worth it, IMO.
If you find this happening often Domino Effect helps that. On rounds where you're already studied it makes no difference.
This is true, but requires a precious Talent that could otherwise be spent some other way.
No solution is really necessary either.
It's at least three Feats, and on a relatively Feat starved Class. That makes a solution highly useful.
Ideal maybe but I think having an 18 in strength is incredibly important since it's the difference between +3/4 attack/damage and +4/6. Since an INT combat build wants more attacks that means no two handing making the 16-18 difference not as necessary.
Eh. Enlarge Person compensates for that problem when used, and is a mainstay of low level Str alchemists anyway. And by anything above low level, you've got a belt of str and probably some ability ups from level into Str, if that's the route you want to go.
Besides, in 20 point-buy, I can get Str 18 and Int 16 pretty readily on an Empiricist.
Can't remember if I did or not. Does it have to be "x2" or can you just input 2?
2 on its own works fine.
So I am rolling up a level 8 Investigator, and got pretty lucky on the rolls. I have:
14
14
14
16
13
13
Discoveries:
Infusion
Quick Study
Expanded Inspiration
Underworld Inspiration
Sickening Offensive
Amazing Inspiration (if there is room)
I am going Empiricist in a campaign that tends to be pretty combat light. I'm building this guy to be a skill monkey among skill monkeys. He's supposed to be a criminal who gets hired for his planning and expertise, as well as various discreet extracts he can pass out in countries where magic is illegal. I'm going to be burning a couple feats to get myself more talents, because I want to be rolling Inspiration all the time.
INT is obviously my go to stat, but I'm not sure if I want to go Strength/Longspear or Dex/Rapier build, probably with the Inspired Blade dip. I'm a little leery of going TWF or Arcane Strike, for both being action and feat starved.
I'm also torn on whether I should go human, because I need more feats and would love more skills, but I could really use the additional +2 that some other races get.
I am thinking that perhaps I should just go Strength, since that only leaves me needing Power Attack, and my rolled stats won't let me really dump Strength for the Dex build.
Also, should I put my level ups into INT or my combat stat? 20 INT is appealing but might be overkill.
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Bit of a thread resurrection, but a few things to say.
Firstly, love the guide (although a second for the push to get an Int-based build included). But in the races there's no love for the ratfolk? Small size means +1 to hit, +1 AC and +4 stealth, for (for most weapons) a -1 to damage. Totally worth it IMO. Plus the boost to Perception, UMD and Craft (alchemy): possibly your three most favoured skills. The -2 strength means it's no good for a brute, but +2 int and dex is perfect for a finesse-based investigator.
Secondly: the trait Accelerated Drinker may be useful (drink a potion as a move action) if you don't want to worship Urgathoa. Or your GM (probably quite reasonably) won't let you worship the goddess of Undeath. And no lying to your GM about it. Roleplaying is built on trust, not tricking your GM into letting you have something they shouldn't let you have.
It works even better if you are a Tiefling and have the ability to retrieve potions from your body as a swift(?) action due to your Prehensile Tail. Makes it much easier to start the turn with your potion in hand. Does still take a move action though, so no Full Attack for you.
Finally, you admit that the transformations we gain at higher levels make a strength build superior to the Dex build that we had to spend a bunch of feats and/or a Inspired Blade dip to get working - how big is the sweet spot for dex builds? Should the Brute just use his extra feats to get better armour?
The lack of weapon and armour proficiencies seems to be pushing the class towards dex, as does the Strength boosting mutagen applying a penalty to Int - hitting your ability to keep Studied Combat up, as well as how many other of your core class abilities? But then the feats required to get a working dex build up and going (especially without the early talents rogues get to speed it along) and the ability to transform into a combat monster seem to push for a strength based build? I get that you can go either way, but which way do you think the designers were envisaging? Which way do you think it was designed to go?
I'm assuming you're taking Extend Potion and Eternal Potion to use with potions you buy? Because you can't qualify for Brew Potion as an Investigator and those discoveries don't work with Extracts from my knowledge.
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Bit of a thread resurrection, but a few things to say.
Firstly, love the guide (although a second for the push to get an Int-based build included). But in the races there's no love for the ratfolk? Small size means +1 to hit, +1 AC and +4 stealth, for (for most weapons) a -1 to damage. Totally worth it IMO. Plus the boost to Perception, UMD and Craft (alchemy): possibly your three most favoured skills. The -2 strength means it's no good for a brute, but +2 int and dex is perfect for a finesse-based investigator.
Secondly: the trait Accelerated Drinker may be useful (drink a potion as a move action) if you don't want to worship Urgathoa. Or your GM (probably quite reasonably) won't let you worship the goddess of Undeath. And no lying to your GM about it. Roleplaying is built on trust, not tricking your GM into letting you have something they shouldn't let you have.
It works even better if you are a Tiefling and have the ability to retrieve potions from your body as a swift(?) action due to your Prehensile Tail. Makes it much easier to start the turn with your potion in hand. Does still take a move action though, so no Full Attack for you.
Finally, you admit that the transformations we gain at higher levels make a strength build superior to the Dex build that we had to spend a bunch of feats and/or a Inspired Blade dip to get working - how big is the sweet spot for dex builds? Should the Brute just use his extra feats to get better armour?
The lack of weapon and armour proficiencies seems to be pushing the class towards dex, as does the Strength boosting mutagen applying a penalty to Int - hitting your ability to keep Studied Combat up, as well as how many other of your core class abilities? But then the feats required to get a working dex build up and going (especially without the early talents rogues get to speed it along) and the ability to transform into a combat monster seem to push for a strength based build? I get that you can go either way, but which way do you think the designers were envisaging? Which way do you think it was designed to go?
Sorry, this is probably the guide thread I check the least, the least being the Barbarian.
1. Yeah, I was kind of garbage about leaving the Ratfolk high and dry on reviews, I should really get back to that. You have a good point there, although I'm not in love with an intelligence build, since accuracy and damage wise it doesn't really stack up to the others. It's a fine secondary stat to focus around, but as a primary stat, it's lacking in utility.
2.I have a LARGE disdain for the repreqs of that feat. There is no reason that such a powerful feat should be locked behind an rp related reason. You don't have to worship a specific deity to take power attack, or else you'd see every fighter bending over backwards to include that god. Why should Alchemist have what's arguably their most powerful feat locked behind an RP reason? Accelerated Drinker is nice, but it's also stated clearly not to work with extracts, something that Potion Glutton is not yet clarified not to work with, and from the way the feat is worded, should work perfectly well. And trust me, you don't have to sell the value of the tiefling or it's almost mandatory tail alternative racial variant to me, it (and sacred tattoo) are the two best alternative racial traits to me.
3. The sweet spot is probably anywhere before 4th level extracts. If we compound that with the "Investigators don't truly work until 4th level" issue, we get a sweet spot of 4th-9th level. It's not great that there's only a quarter of the game where dexy really shines, but to be fair, we're talking highest optimization, a dex investigator is still fun and playable through all of these levels, they're simply not the best option, a solid green in playstyle.
I don't talk a lot about designer intent because at times it's straight up a mystery (like why the class only 'works' at 4th level and up), but if I had to say anything, I'd say they were looking for a dex build for this. The strength mutagen detracting from intelligence is from the alchemist, so I couldn't consider that a slam to strength investigators as a direct rationale, but the weapon selection certainly seems to make it seem as though they wanted more of a sleek and suave character rather than making a new flavor of hyde alchemist.
Thanks for your commentary though, I'm always up for anything that'll make my guides better.
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So I had a look through the Melee Tactics Toolbox, and amongst the highly situation and generally sub-par looking options I noticed one that people here might be interested in: Artful Dodge. It's basically a sucky version of Dodge, but you can use intelligence instead of dexterity for feat pre-requisites.
Looking through the list, there's a bunch of useless (for us) feats, some that might apply to those using unarmed combat, and the feat tree you all came here to see: Two Weapon Fighting
Yes folks, as an Int-based class that may want to take dex-based feats without needing to dump strength and sink your first three-four feats into being able to combat at all (weapon finesse, weapon focus, slashing grace, TWF), sacrifice AC (you can get armour proficiency to cover if you want) take Artful Dodge and TWF and bam, you're a strength based duel wielder that doesn't need to skimp on int (important because your strength mutagen drops your int by 2, and with less than 14 int you won't be able to keep inspired combat up for more than 1 round.
Which, as I just realised while typing that, also reduces your ability to qualify for TWF - suddenly you need 17 Int to be able to use it while your mutagen is up (by the time you are getting the higher level ones you should be able to get headbands to up your Int to the required level). Hrmm, bugger.
So you're not going to be using it at all before level 4, which means you could simply save up for the 4,000gp headband. This will probably hurt a bit, but shouldn't be critical, and you only need worry about anti-magic fields or having your headgear pinched. Without that, you'll want a natural 17 Intelligence, which will not be easy. There is no race (save the third party Taddol and Animus) which can give a bonus to both Strength and Intelligence, the Int classes all seem to favour Dex because the only people who want Int are wizards, apparently.
It's still doable with a 20 point buy, but only just. I'd prefer not trying for it. Any race with a flexible mod or a Int boost without hitting Strength should work, but a static Strength without giving you a penalty to Int (so... Oread or Oni-Spawn Tiefling, both of which boost Wis) would be best: you can get better Dex and Con, with significantly better Wisdom. That's +1 to AC, all saves (except Will which gets +2 with the racial modifier), and hp/level, as well as dying less easily.
One final note: if you GM will let you play a taddol, ignore all this and take it. The race gives free TWF as a bonus feat (saving you two, as artful dodge is little more than a tax), as well as removing the Dexterity requirement for the improved and greater versions, and extra head and neck magic item slots. It also has some really cool racial feats for dual wielding.
What do people think?
those discoveries don't work with Extracts from my knowledge.Which discoveries are you referring to?
Extend Potion and Eternal Potion. They specifically work on Potions you brew with the Brew Potion feat, not Extracts. Investigator, unlike Alchemist, doesn't start with Brew Potion, nor do they qualify to take it since they don't technically have a Caster Level. So the only use would be from potions you buy it from those your allies make.
That's one of the reasons I favored the Brains alchemists so heavily in my guides. So much. So. Much of everything is based on INT with that class. The accuracy and damage buffs from studied combat allow you to get by with mediocre stats and still be very combat viable.
Extend Potion and Eternal Potion. They specifically work on Potions you brew with the Brew Potion feat, not Extracts. Investigator, unlike Alchemist, doesn't start with Brew Potion, nor do they qualify to take it since they don't technically have a Caster Level. So the only use would be from potions you buy it from those your allies make.those discoveries don't work with Extracts from my knowledge.Which discoveries are you referring to?never the less, alchemical allocation is still one of the most (if not THE most) powerful exrtacts in your arsenal. extend+eternal are amazing because they can be applied to the potions you drink and reuse each and every day.
eternal especially is uber powerful when coupled with things like "potion of haste" and etc round/lvl buffs
I agree, Eternal Potion is a VERY good discovery for ALCHEMIST. Investigator can't brew actual potions on it's own, so you'd have to buy Potions of Haste, which is fine as long as that's all you're looking for and it doesn't get dispelled.
The only question I had was whether this person had taken into account that the Eternal Potion discovery didn't work on Extracts when making the guide, because they have this discovery on every single suggested build.
Will this guide be updated with the archetypes introduced after the ACG?
In my opinion, the Dexterity build is inferior to the Strength build. Medium Armour Proficiency, Power Attack and Furious Focus on a Half-Orc or picking up Fauchard proficiency on an Ancestral Arms Half-Elf can be wildly effective
Extracts allow to compensate and then some for the lost speed of medium armour, particularly since it's likely you'll run around Hasted.
Talking of which, Haste is much more powerful for 2H builds for obvious reasons.
Finally, the Strength build has higher CMD than the Dexterity build, and can exploit Enlarge Person and Monstrous Physique much better.
I just think your guide makes it assumed you'll go Dexterity.
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Will this guide be updated with the archetypes introduced after the ACG?
I do plan on it, although bumping the thread when those come out.
In my opinion, the Dexterity build is inferior to the Strength build. Medium Armour Proficiency, Power Attack and Furious Focus on a Half-Orc or picking up Fauchard proficiency on an Ancestral Arms Half-Elf can be wildly effective
Extracts allow to compensate and then some for the lost speed of medium armour, particularly since it's likely you'll run around Hasted.
Talking of which, Haste is much more powerful for 2H builds for obvious reasons.
Finally, the Strength build has higher CMD than the Dexterity build, and can exploit Enlarge Person and Monstrous Physique much better.
I just think your guide makes it assumed you'll go Dexterity.
I like Dex more myself, but I totally agree that extracts tip the scale in favor of strength with Monstrous Physique spells. I didn't meant to tilt things towards strength but I think Dex needs a bit more explanation, which is why it may seem more one sided.
Will this guide be updated with the archetypes introduced after the ACG?I do plan on it, although bumping the thread when those come out.
From Cohorts and Companions there is the Dread Investigator, and from Occult Adventures there's the Psychic Detective that is rather interesting.