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I will post some in here now. Even though I continue to be pessimistic about whether it matters.
I can't say PFO is a bad game. I mean, maybe looking back at it in some years, I'll be like WOW PFO WAS TERRIBLE. It doesn't have that effect on me right now. It's just... very flavorless.
I feel like (rehashing) they were very insistent on making a good payment model, very into creating the world and getting the servers right, which is mostly awesome even though it's got some hitches. However, they forgot to make a unique game.
The main thing I wanted was something more like TT. Everyone can talk til they are blue about how that's impossible. They can even say BUT THE RIGHTS. Really? It couldn't be something *similar*?
Pathfinder Sandbox is an amazing idea. In fact, it is an idea that is more amazing to people with higher expectations. I think that's why some people are so disappointed.
If there had been some level of that in the game...
It's like we can't have dice rolls, that's copyrighted! We can't have misses, that'd be too hard. In the end, you get a game with some familiar names.
I feel duped.
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I made a comment early on that calling this Pathfinder Online was blatantly false advertisement :-p
I've also emphatically stated that this is not PATHFINDER online. Its a MMO set in the Pathfinder Universe.
People mostly either ignored me or told me to shut up.
I'm sorry you feel duped but it was pretty clear that this was never going to be TT no matter how much people wanted to put on blinders and pretend it would be.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I made a comment early on that calling this Pathfinder Online was blatantly false advertisement :-p
I've also emphatically stated that this is not PATHFINDER online. Its a MMO set in the Pathfinder Universe.
People mostly either ignored me or told me to shut up.
I'm sorry you feel duped but it was pretty clear that this was never going to be TT no matter how much people wanted to put on blinders and pretend it would be.
No MMO is going to be TT. The technology is just not there yet. Would I love to be able to strap on a headset and play an MMO (Sword Art Online -like). Absolutely, but in no way did I expect PFO to feel like a TT game.
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With another apology to the op, at this point there is only one answer people need to come up with for this thread, not where the game is now or where it will be in the future.
The question they need to decide on is Where will this game be WHEN IT COMES TIME TO START PAYING THE MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION.
Will it be a good enough value to be worth the $whatever GW is going to charge for that person, which is a question no one can answer but that person.
Andius has his answer and has left for something he considers a better value.
I have my answer as well and will not be playing EE as I do not expect the game to be something I will want to pay for in 4 or 5 months. Maybe in 14 months or 24 months, but not 4.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I do not yet want to go into a deep post with my thoughts, as I have not been spending enough time with the game as is, but I feel it is important to note my initial impressions.
With a busy life and illness, my current play time comes in short bursts at long intervals. I expect this to continue for the near term. My challenge with this game is in finding things to do given my play availability. My 'meaningful' contribution potential is very limited. I know the game is about groups and meaningful interaction, but I believe some manner of meaningful solo game is a necessity. As it stands, the settlements I am in are surrounded by escalation. I am unable to engage in PvE or meaningful gathering work with the mob density and difficulty. Perhaps this gets lightened up in EE when more folks are engaged since there will be no upcoming wipes? But as it stands, the escalations build and spread faster than our engaged audience is quelling them. Because I am on for such short spans of time, it is also just about pointless to try to form a group as most of my time will be spent forming up (finding, travelling, organizing) instead of acting.
I wouldn't expect to get rich or to gather materials for T3 goods in the solo game, but I feel there should be some way to make positive progress from doing so. However, I can overlook all of this myself. I can take a few crafting skills and run queues for my associates and hang around the settlements roleplaying. Unfortunately, I do not think a wealth of people would be satisfied with that form of game, which in turn will seriously limit our growth and retention potential.
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I have never been deeply involved in PFO, so it might not be my place to judge. However, I briefly played during the stress test, and have come to some conclusions.
I consider the $100 i spend on Kickstarter to have been a gamble. One that did not pay off. The game is clunky, uninspired. The learning cliff makes EvE seem like a candy crush clone. I won't mention the graphics and animations, since they really don't matter too much to me. For a game that thrives on social interaction, there really isn't much tooling in place to interact with others.
Some of these things might be fixable. All of them, at the same time, not so much.
No MMO is going to be TT. The technology is just not there yet. Would I love to be able to strap on a headset and play an MMO (Sword Art Online -like). Absolutely, but in no way did I expect PFO to feel like a TT game.I made a comment early on that calling this Pathfinder Online was blatantly false advertisement :-p
I've also emphatically stated that this is not PATHFINDER online. Its a MMO set in the Pathfinder Universe.
People mostly either ignored me or told me to shut up.
I'm sorry you feel duped but it was pretty clear that this was never going to be TT no matter how much people wanted to put on blinders and pretend it would be.
wellnow, I just mean I expected it to be more TT-like than it is. haha. I expected it to try to bridge the gap a bit.
I don't like them saying it can't be done... I think in a way saying that is like accepting less. People laugh you off the stage when you suggest anything that isn't an MMO convention.
I didn't think they were trying to remake Eve in a fantasy setting using 'feats' instead of skills. I definitely put in SOME work researching this game, but the only think I ever saw that turned me off was someone talking about how Ryan had said, "Wait til the Russians get here..." and it sounded kind of like a strange comment. I noted then that the main focus of this game would be TC. TC for TC it seems, which is where the problem is.
I think it's cool that people are like yeah but I'm in control...! You see those hexes? I control all of them. But for me... I want something more. A world, maybe. Something to fight for...
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They say "a game is who you play it with". Which is not true for many people who judge a game by its "features" and essentially play solo, even if in their own definition of this word they are not. For me solo play makes no sense and what significantly matters in the game is who will be playing it.
From this perspective, poor gameplay at the early stages may be a good thing - it drives away those playing for "features" allowing to build better foundations, while the business model is awful - it is for those who like to buy themselves everything with money and play for the buyable kind of "fun".
Yoshi-P once said in an interview: "Once you've played an MMO for a long time, the friends that you end up with tend to be those who share your values and way of thinking. And I think that's one of the most amazing and incredible things with a MMORPG. MMOs are basically a form of entertainment where everyone is provided with a common topic in the form of the game itself, and on top of that, the topic is constantly updated and refreshed for you. It's no surprise that you end up becoming good friends with those you play with".
A world, maybe. Something to fight for...
"World" heh, the long forgotten concept of what a MMORPG was supposed to be, though the term itself is still used. Yet - a virtual world would be a huge proving ground for a lot of situations that rarely happen in real life. But that presumes it has more than just "entertainments".
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I just mean I expected it to be more TT-like than it is.
Just out of curiosity, do you think your expectations were appropriate given the information in Your Pathfinder Online Character?
That was the 3rd ever PFO Blog, and the first one I read. It was followed by To Live and Die in the River Kingdoms, and together those two blogs still capture the essence of what PFO is and will be, and I don't feel like any of the broad expectations I formed have been challenged at all by the reality of what PFO is right now.
I love it - as much for its promise as for its current reality.
Spending some more time Crafting last night, and finally grokking why I need to make lots of +0 and +1 Components in addition to the +2s I'd already made, I am even more impressed with the depth of the Crafting system than I had been. For a number of folks, a learning "cliff" that makes EVE "seem like a candy crush clone" is a feature, not a bug.
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From this perspective, poor gameplay at the early stages may be a good thing - it drives away those playing for "features"...
I've avoided making this point, but it's crossed my mind a hundred times or more.
Ryan's always said he wants "slow and steady" growth, and absolutely has to avoid the "spike and crash". I'm extremely hesitant to say it's part of his plan, but the fact that a hundred thousand people aren't clamoring to play on day one of Early Enrollment doesn't seem to me to necessarily be a bad thing.
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(My apologies for having more opinion. A comment Bludd made elsewhere about KS time reminded me of a point I wanted to re-make for a while, and keep forgetting.)
While a lot of people are convinced the game must be engaging on Day 1 of EE, or even right now, and I think there's plenty of validity to that in some terms, I feel differently.
I shelled out a couple of years ago for a bunch of PDFs, figs, and the promise of something new that would happen in the Pathfinder universe, but might happen a little quicker if I put my dollars in. If it launches and the game fails in the short term, I'll be disappointed, but I'm sanguine that I got what I was promised. A chance to help make an attempt, and to try something new with some people I know and some people I'd never met before. I got my PDFs, I got my figs, I also got a couple of months of entertainment out of the landrush. I made a few new friends, got to play a couple of months of alpha (so far), and learned a little bit about online gaming.
If GW wants me to open my wallet again, then they have to give me a reason to do that. I feel like the game needs to be engaging at least a couple of weeks before they ask me to that. The game we played last night isn't that thing. But I've found lots of interesting stuff, and I don't have to open my wallet again until three or four months after EE starts. That's the only deadline I care about at this point. Whether EE starts in 48 hours, or in 48 days, what matters is a dozen weeks later, the last time I play before they ask me for more money.
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Goblin Squad Member
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From this perspective, poor gameplay at the early stages may be a good thing - it drives away those playing for "features"...I've avoided making this point, but it's crossed my mind a hundred times or more.
Ryan's always said he wants "slow and steady" growth, and absolutely has to avoid the "spike and crash". I'm extremely hesitant to say it's part of his plan, but the fact that a hundred thousand people aren't clamoring to play on day one of Early Enrollment doesn't seem to me to necessarily be a bad thing.
I really like that plan, and I really hope there are finaces to support it, in my experience more than one good project these day get axe due to not being profitable/growing in the short term, whatever promises it has in the long term.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I really like that plan, and I really hope there are finaces to support it, in my experience more than one good project these day get axe due to not being profitable/growing in the short term, whatever promises it has in the long term.From this perspective, poor gameplay at the early stages may be a good thing - it drives away those playing for "features"...I've avoided making this point, but it's crossed my mind a hundred times or more.
Ryan's always said he wants "slow and steady" growth, and absolutely has to avoid the "spike and crash". I'm extremely hesitant to say it's part of his plan, but the fact that a hundred thousand people aren't clamoring to play on day one of Early Enrollment doesn't seem to me to necessarily be a bad thing.
The simple fact that has been the plan all along suggests that those are GW's expectations for everything up to Open Enrollment.
Did they expect more clamoring for access to the alpha? I don't know. If they did, they most likely would have made a bigger deal about getting the word out. More, at least, than existing interest and our (players) word of mouth.
Will they make thier EE population goals? I don't know. It is obvious that they are gearing towards the marketing to work on that. Witness these threads asking us to brainstorm (with them) on several media fronts for advertising.
Bottom line: The public's expectations for alpha (to this point) were unrealistic. It is pretty much as described since blog one. I realize that the public's expectations are all that matter to the public. "Imagine that there are bugs and other issues in ALPHA! What? This should be like finished. Didn't they have two years?" GW's expectations (for this game) are not unrealistic considering the world wide MMO fan base.
I certainly still feel that they would serve themselves quite well to polish and improve the features that are in game now as they are a real turnoff to the average Joe. I hope they know what I mean without a list (I am talking about interface and easy to use features). I believe that they are working on it. I do get concerned that there is a great deal to work on in so many areas. That takes time.
P.S. They are doing something right. At least for me. I get frustrated any time I want in and can't get in.
The fact remains this game goes live in a few weeks. No matter what Dancey says about being alpha if there are to be no more wipes and a fee is charged the mmo population will regard this as a launched game.
Dancey had a target of 20000 players 6 months into EE, from what I have picked up on the forums I am not convinced the game can handle 20000 even if you assume a 10% value logged on at any one time.
PfO had a lot of promise, if they made good on those promises, however much of the mmo audience has already seen the promises made by other companies fail to come to fruition. They are now sceptics and if they come and find the game not fulfilling those promises they will leave and won't be back.
Is PfO dead? No it isn't but it is on life support. People have stopped talking about it which is an ominous sign. The worst thing they can do now in my opinion is advertise because this trailer will set expectations which will soon be found to be untrue merely by looking at youtube.
Get the game right with a soft launch of EE then when you have a game you don't think will make most of the community go wtf is this, then advertise.
PfO had a lot of promise...And this is why I write off most of these doom and gloom posts. They're largely from the same folks who were making doom and gloom posts before Alpha, too.
Quote me in a doom or gloom post go on...you won't find any
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, you do have a tendency to get histrionic whenever your concerns aren't addressed...
Bonus points for the Andius smackdown in the next post. Why did I never get to see goodposting Andius? :(
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Goblin Squad Member
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The fact remains this game goes live in a few weeks. No matter what Dancey says about being alpha if there are to be no more wipes and a fee is charged the mmo population will regard this as a launched game.No, in a few weeks the prototype begins to generate a modest revenue stream to fuel further development, finer articulation. Those who elect to pay do so with the full knowledge that the game in incomplete. Those who pay to further the game are those who should play the game. The mob of unwashed who will surely diss the openly described process will have only themselves to blame, and though they shout it a thousand times their voices will not transmute falsehood into truth.
Dancey had a target of 20000 players 6 months into EE, from what I have picked up on the forums I am not convinced the game can handle 20000 even if you assume a 10% value logged on at any one time.
Capacity is expensive. A revenue stream is necessary to enable that capacity.
PfO had a lot of promise, if they made good on those promises, however much of the mmo audience has already seen the promises made by other companies fail to come to fruition. They are now sceptics and if they come and find the game not fulfilling those promises they will leave and won't be back.
PFO has a lot of promise. Those who desire a ten year old game should wait ten years. If they do not, they aren't really the players we needed. Maybe they will mature in ten years.
Is PfO dead? No it isn't but it is on life support. People have stopped talking about it which is an ominous sign.That reads very like doom and gloom, Steel, as Nihimon was referencing above.
The worst thing they can do now in my opinion is advertise because this trailer will set expectations which will soon be found to be untrue merely by looking at youtube.
If the trailer is true, then it will not be a lie. If the trailer is a lie, then you might have at last one point in your post.
Get the game right with a soft launch of EE then when you have a game you don't think will make most of the community go wtf is this, then advertise.
No, advertise what it is that is being offered. Not a complete, finished game, but a game in development. Let it be clear what is being advertised, because the process of art, of creation, has value in itself to those who value art and creativity.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Quote me in a doom or gloom post go on...you won't find anyPfO had a lot of promise...And this is why I write off most of these doom and gloom posts. They're largely from the same folks who were making doom and gloom posts before Alpha, too.
From your very first post on these forums:
... frankly I don't think they can afford to give the user any more reasons to go meh.
If you really want to challenge me to find starker examples, I'm up to it.
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Quote me in a doom or gloom post go on...you won't find anyPfO had a lot of promise...And this is why I write off most of these doom and gloom posts. They're largely from the same folks who were making doom and gloom posts before Alpha, too.From your very first post on these forums:
... frankly I don't think they can afford to give the user any more reasons to go meh.If you really want to challenge me to find starker examples, I'm up to it.
That wasn't doom and gloom, it was truth.
"Given how sparse both EE and OE are going to be in terms of what has been coded frankly I don't think they can afford to give the user any more reasons to go meh."
Fact is, it will be sparse, a work in progress. The comment was made about camera perspective and Steelwing was just pointing out that with players already relying on their faith in the game to succeed that it wouldn't benefit anyone to create reasons not to enjoy it. In that post he wasn't saying the game sucked or carrying on about how it was going to fail.
Nihimon, I respect you for all the good you've done within the community but context is important, don't be petty. He is making some obvious points to think about and if he didn't care about the future of the game his recent post would have been very different. There's a difference between doom and gloom and constructive criticism.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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From the gospels of Nihimon
"
And the Doomtroll whined and screamed
-I'm not a troll!
as it sizzled and frothed in the light of SEARCH
"
Well the great thing with that power is that he never uses it against himself. Try A search about Golgotha, Nihimon & Landrush, you will see some pretty interesting things.
Anyway, welcome to the scapegoat community Steelwing, you shouldn't have be unhappy, you are in for a good Argumentum ad nauseam campaign against new now.
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Goblin Squad Member
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With another apology to the op, at this point there is only one answer people need to come up with for this thread, not where the game is now or where it will be in the future.
The question they need to decide on is Where will this game be WHEN IT COMES TIME TO START PAYING THE MONTHLY SUBSCRIPTION.
Will it be a good enough value to be worth the $whatever GW is going to charge for that person, which is a question no one can answer but that person.
Andius has his answer and has left for something he considers a better value.
I have my answer as well and will not be playing EE as I do not expect the game to be something I will want to pay for in 4 or 5 months. Maybe in 14 months or 24 months, but not 4.
That seems to be the response of most of keepers and I suspect quite a few other crafting settlements. Seems to be in the nature of the sort of players joinng crafting settlements.
Whilst understandable from an indvidual point of view it's not necessarily going to augur well for those settlements with most of their members opting to wait. If the settlement is empty at EE the one or two active members will probably move.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That wasn't doom and gloom, it was truth.
If anyone has doubts, read this excellent summary from Ryan.
I just mean I expected it to be more TT-like than it is.Just out of curiosity, do you think your expectations were appropriate given the information in Your Pathfinder Online Character?
That was the 3rd ever PFO Blog, and the first one I read. It was followed by To Live and Die in the River Kingdoms, and together those two blogs still capture the essence of what PFO is and will be, and I don't feel like any of the broad expectations I formed have been challenged at all by the reality of what PFO is right now.
I love it - as much for its promise as for its current reality.
Spending some more time Crafting last night, and finally grokking why I need to make lots of +0 and +1 Components in addition to the +2s I'd already made, I am even more impressed with the depth of the Crafting system than I had been. For a number of folks, a learning "cliff" that makes EVE "seem like a candy crush clone" is a feature, not a bug.
TT in concept. As in, more freedom. More meaningful choices. More role-play-y. More depth.
It is the basic-ness that bothers me. Crafting and gathering, to me, is a huge bore. To not sound pretentious, I will say, I don't think the learning curve is an issue in anything in PFO.
Look at it like this. MMO does not equal table top. What kind of experience is a tabletop trying to create? An immersive world, and succeeds when done correctly. What is an MMO trying to create, hopefully the same thing.
I think immersion is different for each person, and I'm sure the more heavy investors are going to give it much more time, but I find PFO to not be immersive. Never do I feel like what I am doing matters or that I am in danger. Even if I was in danger, I don't think I would be driven to fight against it.
The reply to this is "alpha!" But it isn't, really... this is the game. It's going to get better, but this is the framework of the game. The idea of putting much time into this game, caring about the outcome of conflicts, is just not working for me.
Like I said, most of the features sound cool. It looks okay on paper. Escalations even sound interesting. But what is happening is not... there is no creativity. No challenge at a basic level. You can say the challenge is in the situation, but that's not enough for me. It's like do you think this game is exciting... hard? No? Well how about if I slap you while you are playing it. At that point, it becomes even more apparent that it's not... and I wonder why am I doing this.
People must get lost in the world FIRST, I believe. This has nothing to do with graphics, but it's looking at the game and saying "This is my goal." You see many things happening as you log into the game the first time. You are overstimulated by what you don't understand. You see people who you may want to be like, and those who you kind of dislike.
I don't think this is some revelation. I've tried to get people to play this game and they say "Too basic!" I even defended it at first... again to alpha, show me where they say they are going to make these systems deeper and when.
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That wasn't doom and gloom, it was truth.If anyone has doubts, read this excellent summary from Ryan.
To be fair, Ryan was reacting to the poster, not the points in the post. There are more than a few of us who are concerned about the claim to to have a settlement that can train to highest levels, we should expect to defend ourselves 8 hours a day, 7 days a week.
I do hope they look at scaling the settlement attack windows back substantially, and let us distribute them across the week, instead of a daily block.
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Goblin Squad Member
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"You get one post, and only one. You can not respond to anyone else's post, you can't come back and add something you have forgotten, correct someone's way of thinking...etc."
That type of attempted-control language has never gotten very far around here...or anywhere, actually. I suspect that was simple Cheatle's attempt at laying some groundwork, regardless of his estimation of success.
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Also- talk about dragging this thread off topic... sheez.
"You get one post, and only one. You can not respond to anyone else's post, you can't come back and add something you have forgotten, correct someone's way of thinking...etc."
My expectation is that I'm not the only one who's likely to see a post in this thread that I want to respond to and will forget what thread I'm in since I don't always check thread titles before responding.
Yeah, it was pretty obvious it was going to happen, and it happened. I almost never pay attention to what thread I'm in, I simply respond to the conversation that's going on at the time.
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Since this thread has served its purpose:
I expected that everyone would be grown up enough so that they wouldn't drowned out this thread like every other one. That, people constantly posting, is what has been cited by the few that decide to speak up as the main reason they stay silent. So, the idea was that some of those people would feel like they could speak here, and be heard. Some of them were able to do just that, even though some of you ignored the ground rules.
It was also fascinating to see which of you just ignored and posted what you wanted to post anyways, and insightful too. To be honest, if I had the ability to, I would delete all secondary+ responses from this thread, since some of you have declared "this thread is so far off topic, better toss in my thoughts, again."
I consider this my first post, I wanted to wait awhile, since I actually didn't give my personal response, but set up the ground rules.
I believe that the game is going in a positive direction, but I believe that they have gone at a pace that a lot of people just can not handle. GW has also made some decisions about priorities that a lot of people just don't understand, although if you follow the spread out responses from the GW Staff between Alpha/Paizo forums, you get a better understanding.
This is a big disconnect, and it is one that continues to plague this game. GW need to take all this mini blog posts in the forums that we see from Ryan, Stephen, and Lee (some times others), and form them into a more coherent and structured Blog Post. This would go a long way into helping people understand the process.
I believe that there are positives to this game. I enjoy the Gathering to Crafting process, it has some depth to it, but in ways that most don't understand. The Keyword system is awesome, and I can understand why it will be the great balancer, and allow for a 3 tiered system in where combat is more balanced. I enjoy the map, and the big world we have here, and all the different armors, weapons, and raw/salvage resources that we get to play around with.
There are also a lot of negatives, but most of the negatives I have to talk about all surround systems I know aren't in place, so in reality, giving the game more time to develop would get rid of a lot of what I find negative. Though, combat does need to be developed more, and in ways I haven't seen that are coming. UI needs an update, and we do need more systems in place for operating Companies and Settlements. Spells constantly interrupted, and Reputation flip flopping, are also big negatives on my list.
I think this game has potential, but I also think that GW needs to do a better job with public relations, managing expectations, and constant communication. I realize that they have other priorities, which makes a lot of things forgivable, but some people do not share this view.
Personally the way I see the game is this:
This is Alpha, no matter what they say, EE is basically paid Beta, and that is how people will look at it, I am willing to give them four months after EE starts, and see where we stand. I will most likely be playing this game for the long haul, either way, but until I have to start paying money out on a monthly basis, I can sit back and watch the development process patiently.
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Alpha is usually like this tbh. The only difference is you often hear the alpha/beta testers saying "I told the devs not to release and first fix xyz 6 months ago..." 6 months after release the community is complaining that the devs didn't finish the game!
I think the whining in mmorpgs is possibly the worst thing, albeit constructive criticism could be the best thing. I guess if we get the game through the next proverbial 6 months things will start to look much more interesting for the future if the settlement dynamics can start working and we see player groups really able to influence the game?
One idea I think for declaring war would be that part of the system be game code system based (let it be data-driven as intended) but combined with another type of authentication for a caius bellus, put a case to the "gods of Golarion" the Devs who assign a committee to qualitatively provide the conditions of the just war or even just the go ahead/greenlight.
Combining two different systems like this imho could be quite fun. If the Gods have their "inscrutable guidelines" (may include rolling a dice as well as written rules and voting between themselves Lol, Clash of the Titans and more - we the players don't get to know!).
This may seem a bit mad but it could also comprise an adminstrative body over the most momentus political act possible in PFO and be beyond gaming the system too? And of course "A Just War" is one shade of many types of war?
It just seems like the natural direction to go with? Why not make the PvE narrative and some parts of the PvP narrative an echo of the laughter ye gods!!
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First time in the thread. Gold star for me!
The state of the game is getting there. Goblin Works knows there are some things that must be fixed before EE launch, and they'll fix them or get really close. Those things, I believe, are most stability related - because stability is directly tied to permanence.
I'm looking forward to PFO, though I think I'm looking forward to a game much different than many posters. I'm not a huge fan of most fantasy literature, the individual hero or the doughty band struggling against some huge arcane foe. I think a lot of TT and a lot of theme park MMOs cast the players into this role, the special snowflake that is saving the world, one encounter at a time.
I could never understand why there was a dungeon on the edge of town and the mayor and his guard did nothing about it. It never made sense that, after our party cleared a half-dozen encounters, we weren't hired, drafted or whatever - because we were apparently the only people in the country that could fight monsters. To me, the entire genre has a major disconnect. A game where the players are the gatherers and the guards and the mayor and the adventurers... That makes more sense than a game with 20,000 special snowflakes logged in at once. A bunch of us will be doing mundane things every day.
I think PFO is going to be in its foundation an economic and strategy game. The gatherers, the PvEers getting drops, and the outposts are going to feed a lot of the game. From playing ATitD and Wurm (PvE servers), I'll say there are gamers out there who are willing to gather, grind mobs, build and manage outposts and craft. And they'll compete and have conflict with each other.
PvP combat is only one avenue for conflict, but it's a good one for destroying material. It's an item sink at heart. It requires some part of all gathering and crafting be diverted to weapons and armor, and some large fraction of that will be lost in the course of the game. Hexes will be stripped bare to arm combatants, and settlements will go further afield to get more material for their armies. We might avoid end-game stasis like theme parks if we're all running to get more war material than those mooks in the next settlement.
For MvP, we only needed a few things. We need the foundation of an economic and crafting system (check). We need some ability to kill other characters when competition gets to that point (check). We need a stable platform so we log on confident that the stuff we made yesterday is still there (waiting). Note that if some other player burned it down, that's a bummer. If it just vanished because my electronic GM doesn't work... Not acceptable.
PvP is MvP. Player looting might not be - though it needs to be in soonish. We can have wars without player looting. I'd go so far as to say that we'll still fight over things that are worth fighting over; "meaningful" might often mean that you're willing to have your character die and lose equipment *even* without some chance of immediate payout.
I'm ready to get started. I think we can start as soon as the game is stable.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ok, i think i'm ready to make my first post here as well.
Overall, i'm enjoying the game already.
I like the gathering/crafting cycle and i like the PvE part, PvP when it happens is fun.
All of these still need adjustments(which is where we come in)
I think that a player with 7500 reputation attacks another player with 7500 Reputation twice without killing him, that shouldn't put him at -7500 - i think that´s cracking a nut with a sledgehammer.
But the game already does one thing really well.
You can do stuff alone, but it takes more time and is generally harder.
If you work together with other people everything work more smoothly and you really get stuff done.
So if you have a bunch of people you enjoy playing with regularly, this game should work for you.
Yes, there are systems missing; but i'm willing to wait for them.
The only real negative for me atm are the stability issues, which are at the top of the needs-to-be-fixed list as far as i know.
I look forward to EE, and to gradually discover this game.
Since this thread has served its purpose:
I expected that everyone would be grown up enough so that they wouldn't drowned out this thread like every other one. That, people constantly posting, is what has been cited by the few that decide to speak up as the main reason they stay silent. So, the idea was that some of those people would feel like they could speak here, and be heard. Some of them were able to do just that, even though some of you ignored the ground rules.
It was also fascinating to see which of you just ignored and posted what you wanted to post anyways, and insightful too. To be honest, if I had the ability to, I would delete all secondary+ responses from this thread, since some of you have declared "this thread is so far off topic, better toss in my thoughts, again."
I consider this my first post, I wanted to wait awhile, since I actually didn't give my personal response, but set up the ground rules.
I believe that the game is going in a positive direction, but I believe that they have gone at a pace that a lot of people just can not handle. GW has also made some decisions about priorities that a lot of people just don't understand, although if you follow the spread out responses from the GW Staff between Alpha/Paizo forums, you get a better understanding.
This is a big disconnect, and it is one that continues to plague this game. GW need to take all this mini blog posts in the forums that we see from Ryan, Stephen, and Lee (some times others), and form them into a more coherent and structured Blog Post. This would go a long way into helping people understand the process.
I believe that there are positives to this game. I enjoy the Gathering to Crafting process, it has some depth to it, but in ways that most don't understand. The Keyword system is awesome, and I can understand why it will be the great balancer, and allow for a 3 tiered system in where combat is more balanced. I enjoy the map, and the big world we have here, and all the different armors, weapons, and...
hi,
to be fair, I responded to people and many other people were responders as well.
Also, this thread has been active for a pretty long time, so I don't think there is as much clutter as it seems. - thumbs up -