Someone will always find some kind of an advantage, be that access to money or time, makes no difference.
"People are inequal by nature - ones are tall, others are short, etc, so wishing for a social equality is going against the nature" - that's what they said in Middle Ages to justify the feudal hierarchy.
Imho what matters is not whether it's "fair" from some perspective, or even less whether it falls under someone's definition, but what effect does it have on the social part of the gameplay, structure of the community. How much of an upper hand, not mechanically - but socially, will have those with more real money, with more time, with more "skill", with more friends, with more intelligence.
If anything, I see the Goblin Balls being used by settlements to fund development and wars
I guess this would be the worst outcome - it would mean those who don't make "optional" purchases officially contribute less to their settlement, which affects the very core of social interactions in the game.
What is your opinion of the game so far? Where will it go from here? [A thread dedicated to give each person their opinion]
They say "a game is who you play it with". Which is not true for many people who judge a game by its "features" and essentially play solo, even if in their own definition of this word they are not. For me solo play makes no sense and what significantly matters in the game is who will be playing it.
From this perspective, poor gameplay at the early stages may be a good thing - it drives away those playing for "features" allowing to build better foundations, while the business model is awful - it is for those who like to buy themselves everything with money and play for the buyable kind of "fun".
Yoshi-P once said in an interview: "Once you've played an MMO for a long time, the friends that you end up with tend to be those who share your values and way of thinking. And I think that's one of the most amazing and incredible things with a MMORPG. MMOs are basically a form of entertainment where everyone is provided with a common topic in the form of the game itself, and on top of that, the topic is constantly updated and refreshed for you. It's no surprise that you end up becoming good friends with those you play with".
A world, maybe. Something to fight for...
"World" heh, the long forgotten concept of what a MMORPG was supposed to be, though the term itself is still used. Yet - a virtual world would be a huge proving ground for a lot of situations that rarely happen in real life. But that presumes it has more than just "entertainments".
Just a crazy idea - do a wipe, start a new phase of alpha with partial trasfer into EE - that is, all characters are wiped, with their exp and posessions, except for the items belonging to an officially assigned for each settlement "bankbot" character. That would technically give no disadvantage to those starting later (well, kinda), give incentive to play for those who don't mind lack of action and allow crafters/gatherers to "build" some foundations.
A funny thing - in an "epic" game, that catches people with more complicated forms of "fun", very few actually understand what exactly was so good about that game. When they try to describe it, they start listing particular details, thus missing the point. Imho, advertising with a "vision" is pointless - in the best case one would find some eye candy in between your words. The vision should appear *after* one started playing - once the gameplay reached the state when it can keep players in. For those, who can actually be caught by the concept itself, "talking up" is usually not needed.
Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Low-tier goods will only give advantage for the first time (expecting to see gobs being farmed 24/7 on the first week), afterwards it will become trash drops. And yes, generally it won't be picked up much - but, if this gear appears on AH, where would it come from? Mats for crafting this gear will always cost more than the gear itself, cause they are harder to obtain, so if there will a player-made t1+0 economy, it will be based purely on goblins farm - could as well come from npcs or just be given for free - at least until gobs are tweaked.
Ryan Dancey wrote:
What's the purpose of these goblins? Tutorial doesn't require 1000 kills, archievements are supposed to be obtained automatically while doing other stuff. So is coin and recipes, as far as I undestand. If one is not expected to farm them, then why give this option at all? It's an ideal place for botting, it disturbs balance of coin and low recipes drops. The advice to the new players now is: "go solo goblins", instead of "find a group and go to the wilderness". If these gobs are just for the new players, I don't see a point making so many of them and with such a short respawn time.
Doc || GenAknosc wrote:
Reddit has a built-in voting mechanism that allows readers to, as a group, downvote to oblivion comments or threads that are deemed inappropriate, off-topic, or just rude.
Never seen this, all I've seen is people downvoting when they dislike, disagree, or just don't have sense of humour. Voting feature is good only against trolling and bm, which we do not have here. As a downside, it drives away any originality. I've had a chance to compare normal forums and subreddit of the same game - the difference was huge, the subreddit was basically just not worth reading.
Your points are well taken, psyphey. On the last, your quoted point, do you see any way to stimulate ability progression while still regulating the power of individual characters to a rough parity that would not be interpreted 'grinding'?
The current system is not really working yet, because of the lack of many things in alpha that will be in EE, so tbh I don't see any problem here in the first place.
In every community there are standard values, they are highly dependent on the "environment". In a game environment = game mechanics. Saying that "we are free to do what we want here, so lets think of a way to spend our time the best way" will break of our differences, and values that win are those that are stimulated by the environment. If the game ends up stimulating grind - grind will be the standard here and it won't change until it stops being stimulated. I saw several times the situation when a MMO stopped encouraging grouping - majority immediately started playing solo, moreover, they cried about it not stimulating grouping anymore, while refusing to party up because it "wasn't effective". I have my purposes for playing a game, I work towards them - but that is just a grain of sand that does not have any effect on where the main stream is going. To actually affect it and create a Mona Lisa, a higher commitment is needed than just taking a brush - commitment that one cannot expect from a regular player who has other things to do in life.
I don't really like all these pointless complaints about game that is far from being finished, and think that constructive suggestions on how to archieve the stated developement goals would be a bit more useful. But I believe that eventually the community will only act the way that the game encourages it to act and I'd like to see the corresponding stimulation mechanics to be implemented at some point.
...except you only gain xp so fast, so if you are the sort to enjoy a mass-production assembly line as your entertainment, or intend to leave your character on a script, then that might work for you. If you are more of a regular person, I think, actually seeking the game of PFO, then you would probably seek out other ways to pass your paid-for time.
That wasn't the point, I never said it was the only thing to do. It is a spot that greatly overshadows all other monster groups, because it has a large amount of weak mobs that only link with 1-2 neighbours - so one can endlessly massacre them at any level - something one cannot do in the wilderness. Therefore, it creates disbalance between these particular mob groups and any other. Archievements and coins that "regular person" would get by doing his entertaining activities could be obtained with very little effort and time by killing goblins right outside his settlement, thus lowering the importance of the "natural" activities for the character progression.
Those goblins will be needed to respawn quickly near starter towns for the sake of new players. I imagine it is even possible they would be needed near Thornkeep for those who need a few cp in a hurry.
They already respawn really fast. It's actually a very easy source of archievements and loot, so easy that it kills the point to ever fight anything else. Imho their number should be much lower. Killing a few on a starting character is ok, but sitting in the same spot till max level - not so much.
Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
That's why i said "practically", realistically cell phone is a requirement, almost everyone end up buying it. So is teamspeak. Adding these "cell phones" in the cash shop is basically an indirect raise of subsription price. Yes, formally it would look "optional", but in practice - mandatory for almost everyone.
Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Cause "everyone has something" is practically a requirement to have it, not an option.
This would lead to a situation when using cash shop is a requirement not an option, if settlements would ask all their members to donate. Even if they probably won't set it as mandatory, this "donating towards common goal" would be a huge stimulation for players to regularly spend money above subscription. With the ability to distribute costs amongst members bought items will also become "something that every settlement has", not an optional alternative for those individuals who are willing to get them for money instead of in-game effort.
Ryan Dancey wrote:
Thanks for making things clear.
Could I get some clarification on what kind of items will be in the cash shop? I know there were answers on this already:
Yes. Several types of premium content can be purchased using microtransactions. This content includes "bling"—visual enhancements to the character or the character's property that have no mechanical effect; a wide variety of mounts that let you customize your ride and show your personal sense of style; and low level consumables that will give minor benefits.
Ryan Dancey wrote:
But the current items for sale don't fall under these categories.
Our commitment to the players is that there will never be an item in the cash shop that is mechanically better than the best craftable item that can be made by characters in-game.
But will there be items in the shop on a par with the best craftable items? With the second-best ones?
What is the criteria on what is considered "pay-to-win" and what is not?
At what point does something like like cross the line from "a cash store that does not provide anything of significant mechanical advantage" which is I believe how GW advertised a proposed cash store to one that is Pay to Win?
Ryan Dancey wrote:
But there's no limit on what we'll charge or make if we think there's a market for it for items that don't constitute a meaningful mechanical advantage, and that don't distort or destroy the fundamental game system that is the player-driven economy.
T7V Jazzlvraz wrote:
I admit most games' boards are too poisonous for my taste, so I don't follow anywhere but here. People really object to these "only have a small effect for the first few hours" things? Why?
(imho:) One can view MMO as an amusement park with certain entertainments included - then cash shop means nothing. Or one can view it as a world where he could "live", and this "life" would only depend on in-game actions. In this case cash shop is a nuisance cause it ruins the immension in the game world. Even cosmetics - still annoying. Usually in a person both of these concepts co-exist to a certain degree. Nowdays the first view seem to dominate and the mentality of second is weak enough for the majority of people to put up with microtransactions, so since the latter give more profit - they are intoduced everywhere.
There's no point arguing about it, business has its laws. Rather than questioning developers we have only ourselves to blame: a lot of people don't mind microtransactions - so there we have them, once enough people will enjoy playing pay-to-win - that's how it will work. The only way to make the game different is to change the community - it is responsible for this happening, not the devs.
- Sometimes numbers on the action bar switch to the upper row without alt pressed, usually after using menus. Pressing alt once restores them back.