An XPH and Ultimate Psionics' Fan's first thoughts


Occult Adventures Playtest General Discussion


Guys, good work. This is really different from the XPH and Ultimate Psionics. I don't think you've captured the ~Law of Attraction~ side of psychic powers at all (no class that deals in Power Creation), but this is a big start.

In short, you're missing a very important class that deals with conscious and deliberate Attraction. (there are problems with said class, though -- in the real world, people who can consciously attract has to deal with time ~ and often they have to fight limiting beliefs ~ but Heaven and Earth will move for them to receive the object(s) or subject(s) they are attracting -- Although a lot of people could say this represents the Wizard, but the Wizard does not!). So, lets take a look at how I feel about each class.

1). I like the how the kineticist class is set up. How you explain Telekinetics, Hydrokinetics, and the rest is something that I like. Especially Telekinetics. I never even thought that the Aether (the very same luminiferous aether) would be involved. In fact, the set up could be used to mimic Jean Grey (Marvel's -- Marvel Girl from the X-Men), and Terra (super-heroine who could move earth and rocks from the Teen Titans) every bit as good as the Psion in the XPH and Ultimate Psionics. Although the power levels are lacking, actually. (Jean would have to multi-class under these rules, actually. Under Ultimate Psionics rules, she spends a feat on Expanded Psionics). (Fortunately, M&M 3rd Edition contains the best rules for Superheroics than this or the XPH ever could).

2). The Medium is a Channeller. A medium is pretty much does what Abraham Hicks did. And also, to a lesser extent, the writer of the Conversations with God series. The Medium is pretty much based on real life. But it looks like the class is set up to go on adventures rather than imparting wisdom. Ah, too bad, mediums are great as NPC sages. (Actually, the class has as much potential for fun as the Alchemist, and I like the Alchemist).

3). Mesmerists -- Mandrake the Magician!! While Doctor Strange (Marvel) and Doctor Fate (D.C.) are represented by the Wizard class, Mesmerists are Mandrake the Magician and the Shadow from the Pulp era. They also represent the strange figure from India and the Orient that could mesmerize other people in this Era. There is also the Justice League's other sorcerers that are represented by this class. Psimon from D.C. Comics can also be represented by this class. Very good work.

4). Occultists -- these are the item readers, right? This is Jeff Goldblum's character from Vibes. I watched the show twice while it was on Showtime. Basically, from what I get from the text, they are item readers. "He uses his power to study the magic that infuses everything, from the psychic resonances left in everyday items to the powerful incantations that fuel the mightiest spells."

However, the text reveals that they are more than that. They could be some kind of wizard that channels their power through magical items. Doctor Fate's helmet aside (Doctor Fate is a Wizard), I don't know anything that could fit except the Golden Age Green Lantern. This might be also an exciting class to play.

5). Psychics. Uh, end all be all? A Generalist? This class needs playtesting the most at first glance. At first, I thought it might represent Professor Xavier from the X-Men, but it more often than not can represent the 1990's Brainiac (a.k.a. Milton Fine) from Superman's mythos.

6). Ah, Spiritualists. If it weren't for the flavor text, it can represent a better witch than -- well -- the witch. The Spiritualist class represents Whoopi Goldberg from the movie Ghost.

------------------

Okay, compared to the XPH and Ultimate Psionics, the power level is much reduced. The most powerful class is probably the Kineticist, while the Psychic class is a jack of all trades. I think I need to try this out, but I'm disappointed that there is no Attraction class. I'm really kind of bummed on that.

Most of the inspiration comes from pulp era novels and short stories; rather than the Silver Age comic era. This book is from the day when you can read Conan stories in Weird Stories, or you can pick up Mandrake the Magician in your Newspaper (also created by Lee Falk); or go watch the Flash Gordon serials. The Power level is consistent as well, hailing back to a time when mysterious power was regarded as mysterious and otherworldly.

I think I shall playtest this . . .


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I'm not sure what you mean by the Attraction thing.


Yeah, I better say it out right.

Occultic version of the Psion shaper, please. :)

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Quote:
there are problems with said class, though -- in the real world, people who can consciously attract has to deal with time ~ and often they have to fight limiting beliefs ~ but Heaven and Earth will move for them to receive the object(s) or subject(s) they are attracting

I get the impression from this line, your discussion of law-of-attraction as something that the reader should understand, and your comments about becoming a superhero in the other thread, that you are embracing some sort of New-agey philosophy. I'm not sure that's meant to be the inspiration for this book.

Yep, some Googling tells me that you're talking about The Secret or one of its immediate predecessors.


Some elaboration on the psion shaper class?


I'm pretty sure the shaper is in reference to the 3.5 metacreativity discipline psion, and by extension the Dreamscarred press version. It shaped objects, effects, and constructs out of ectoplasm.


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Ross Byers wrote:
Quote:
there are problems with said class, though -- in the real world, people who can consciously attract has to deal with time ~ and often they have to fight limiting beliefs ~ but Heaven and Earth will move for them to receive the object(s) or subject(s) they are attracting

I get the impression from this line, your discussion of law-of-attraction as something that the reader should understand, and your comments about becoming a superhero in the other thread, that you are embracing some sort of New-agey philosophy. I'm not sure that's meant to be the inspiration for this book.

Yep, some Googling tells me that you're talking about The Secret or one of its immediate predecessors.

First of all, it's not "new age." It's been in Christian teachings from the very beginning.

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? (John 10:34, also see Psalms 82:6)

Second of all, even though I'm disappointed, does not mean I can't fill the void. This is what the OGL is for. :)


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I don't have access to a computer (on phone) or DSP's Psionics. So can someone give me, in 100 words or less, what Attraction and Shapers do?

Shadow Lodge

I still can't make heads or tails of his whole attraction thing. The scriptures he's referencing certainly don't help.

The Psalms Quote for reference:
I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince.” Psalm 82: 6-7

I fail to see what this quote, or its New Testament echo, has anything at all to do with creating stuff out of thin air.

Seriously, Elton. Explain Attraction/Law of Attraction in simple, non-esoteric terms. Plainly state what it is, what it does, and what it means. If it's as simple as straight-up Conjuration, say that. Otherwise you keep talking circles around people and nobody can understand what in the heck you're referencing.

Anyway.

Shapers are psionic Conjurers. That pretty much sums it up.


Shapers create astral golems out of ectoplasm.

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Odraude wrote:
I don't have access to a computer (on phone) or DSP's Psionics. So can someone give me, in 100 words or less, what Attraction and Shapers do?

Psions had to pick specialties the way wizards can. A Shaper was the psionic answer to a Conjurer.

The Law of Attraction thing, best I can tell, is the idea that one can 'attract' things or outcomes via force of will. As a general idea, that's been part of magic and/or prayer since ever. Under the term 'Law of Attraction', it appeared at the end of the 19th century, and it's most recent manifestation comes from Esther Hicks who claims to have gotten it from a non-corporeal entity named 'Abraham'. Her version became the film version of The Secret, which was then turned into a book of the same name.

Shadow Lodge

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Huh. I've been a religious person all my life and never once heard that term. Explains a few things though. Sort of. Ish.

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I don't think it's a particularly religious term. Mostly it seems used to sell self-help books.

But I'm getting off topic. My point wasn't to derail the thread with a discussion of The Secret's validity or lack therof. It was to discuss how appropriate EltonJ's idea was for the topic, and possibly how to drill it down to it's occult turn-of-the-(last)century roots.


Yeah, he's helping me out. Just got a little sidetracked.

The Class would be like the Green Lantern, but without the ring. You won't need a ring for the class to work. But it goes back to the Golden Age Green Lantern.

An Occultist using a ring for his focus can work -- spells: create object, lesser create object, create object true. That's Green Lantern.

The class ditches the ring and works on willpower, and faith. Except this is LRM, the phenomenon of getting what you want exactly when you expect it to be there. like 2 seconds after you thought of it, ~ and ~ not when you need it -- which can take years (in the case of demanding or commanding God to give you a wife -- which took years -- that's my personal experience. I've been wanting a wife since I was 13. I'm 40 now, still don't have anyone sleeping with me -- I've had a trail of bad relationships and one marked with Tragedy).

Only thing is, how to present it as an accidental discovery? Hmm, I'll leave that up to the GM.

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How does the Psychic spell list shape up for conjuration-type powers?

Could you make a 'Law of Attraction' character by making a psychic and focusing on those types of powers instead of 'mental' powers?


Theoretically, but I'm focusing on CONSCIOUS creation here. That's why it has to be a separate class from the Psychic, otherwise you'd convince me to force everyone -- psions included -- to take psychic as their first class.

I'm talking about what we actually do, 24 hours, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, for about 70 years; (and beyond both points, but this is in parathenesis) here and making it work Consciously. You see, most people go about their lives doing this sort of thing unconsciously.

A fighter character goes around, and unconsciously creates his sword, shield, and armor and pays for them from the person who made them. A monk studies how to turn his body into a weapon, but creates the conditions to make this so.

This class can make Heaven and Earth move literally for them, with a conscious thought. It's a god class, pure and simple. I don't want the psychic associated with it, otherwise -- "The Psychic is overpowered!" s**t starts flying on the boards. Whether it's an archetype or an actual class, the whole idea is that people blame me for it.

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I'm not really sure what you're trying to say (how is a class that focuses on creation powers not 'Consciously' doing something?) but:

If this is something you think everyone does, regardless of character class, then you're not looking for a class or an archetype: you're trying to make it a racial ability or just game rule (otherwise you're going to have 'I think every character should have a level in X'.)

If you're looking for a class that can move heaven and earth at 1st level, that's overpowered. Just because you think some particular way of looking at the world is better, that is not a reason to break the game. I mean, do what you want for your home game, but that kind of input is really not helpful for a playtest for a book release.

Also, it's probably best not to involve how you think the real-world works. Clerics don't really parallel what priests in the real world do. Witches don't follow real pagan (or Satanic) traditions. Druidism was a Celtic religion, not a secret society of nature worshipers.

Frankly, I find the way you describe 'unconscious' action to be excessively Solipsistic for a team game, or in general, really. The idea that a fighter is unconsciously responsible for creating his sword, instead of the blacksmith who actually forged it robs the blacksmith of his agency: he's no longer a person with free will, but an automaton who entire existence serves to answer the fighter's one need. That's jarring enough applied to NPC, but can be destructive in the context of a team game: does the cleric exist purely so that your Conscious character has healing available when he desires it? What happens if two Conscious characters have conflicting goals?

I'm having a lot of difficulty reconciling your post above with your previous statements about thinking that a 3.5E Shaper Psion fills this role. What does a Shaper do that a Psychic focusing on Conjuration spells can't?


This one is easy to answer:
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say (how is a class that focuses on creation powers not 'Consciously' doing something?)

We can do anything, have anything, and be anything we desire. I just desire to turn a man or woman who knows this into a game mechanical structure, i.e. a Class. With emphasis on the do, and have for the substrate; while be is one thing --> a Conscious Creator.

(I'm struggling communicating this without telling you a lot, so bare with me. Telling you everything I know will probably make you more confused).

I'll answer this one:

I'm having a lot of difficulty reconciling your post above with your previous statements about thinking that a 3.5E Shaper Psion fills this role. What does a Shaper do that a Psychic focusing on Conjuration spells can't?

Here's the "spell" list for psychics:
0-Level Psychic Spells: arcane mark, bleed, dancing lights,
daze, detect magic, detect poison, f lare, ghost sound, know
direction, light, lullaby, mage hand, mending, message, open/
close, prestidigitation, read magic, resistance, stabilize, virtue.

1st-Level Psychic Spells: alarm, animate rope, calm animals,
cause fear, charm animal, charm person, color spray, command,
comprehend languages, detect animals or plants, detect secret doors,
detect thoughts, lesser confusion, detect undead, disguise self, endure
elements, enlarge person, entropic shield, erase, expeditious retreat,
feather fall, floating disk, hold portal, hypnotism, identify, jump,
mage armor, magic aura, magic missile, mind thrust I*, reduce
person, remove fear, shield, silent image, sleep, true strike, unseen
servant, ventriloquism.

2nd-Level Psychic Spells: animal messenger, animal trance,
augury, bear’s endurance, blindness/deafness, blur, bull’s strength,
calm emotions, cat’s grace, chill metal, eagle’s splendor, fox’s
cunning, owl’s wisdom, darkvision, daze monster, enthrall, false
life, find traps, heat metal, hideous laughter, hold animal, hold
person, hypnotic pattern, invisibility, knock, levitate, locate object,
magic mouth, make whole, mind thrust II*, minor image, mirror
image, misdirection, obscure object, phantom trap, protection from
arrows, pyrotechnics, resist energy, rope trick, scare, see invisibility,
shatter, shield other, silence, speak with animals, spectral hand,
spider climb, status, suggestion, thought shield I*, touch of idiocy,
undetectable alignment, whispering wind, zone of truth.

3rd-Level Psychic Spells: arcane sight, blink, clairaudience/
clairvoyance, continual flame, deep slumber, dispel magic,
displacement, ego whip I*, f ly, gaseous form, haste, helping hand,
heroism, illusory script, invisibility sphere, major image, meld into
stone, mental barrier I*, mind thrust III*, nondetection, protection
from energy, rage, shrink item, slow, speak with dead, thought
shield II*, tongues, vampiric touch, water breathing, water walk.

4th-Level Psychic Spells: arcane eye, black tentacles, break
enchantment, charm monster, confusion, crushing despair,
detect scrying, dimension door, dimensional anchor, discern
lies, divination, dominate animal, ego whip II*, fear, freedom
of movement, greater invisibility, hallucinatory terrain, id
insinuation I*, illusory wall, intellect fortress I*, lesser geas, lesser
globe of invulnerability, lesser planar ally, locate creature, mass
enlarge person, mass reduce person, mental barrier II*, mind
thrust IV*, minor creation, phantasmal killer, rainbow pattern,
resilient sphere, scrying, sending, shout, spell immunity, stoneskin
telekinesis, telepathic bond, thought shield III*.

5th-Level Psychic Spells: commune with nature, contact
other plane, dismissal, dominate person, dream, ego whip III*,
fabricate, false vision, feeblemind, greater command, hold monster,
id insinuation II*, intellect fortress II*, interposing hand, lesser
planar binding, mage’s private sanctum, magic jar, major
creation, mass suggestion, mental barrier III*, mind fog, mind
thrust V*, mirage arcana, modify memory, nightmare, overland
f light, passwall, permanency, persistent image, plane shift, prying
eyes, psychic crush I*, secret chest, seeming, song of discord, spell
resistance, teleport, thought shield IV*, tower of iron will I*, true
seeing, wall of force, waves of fatigue.

6th-Level Psychic Spells: analyze dweomer, animate objects,
antilife shell, blade barrier, contingency, disintegrate, ego whip IV*,
find the path, greater dispel magic, ethereal jaunt, forceful hand,
geas/quest, globe of invulnerability, greater heroism, id insinuation
III*, intellect fortress III*, legend lore, mass bear’s endurance, mass
bull’s strength, mass cat’s grace, mass eagle’s splendor, mass fox’s
cunning, mass owl’s wisdom, mental barrier IV*, mind thrust
VI*, mislead, permanency, permanent image, planar ally, planar
binding, programmed image, psychic crush II*, stone tell, thought
shield V*, tower of iron will II*, transformation, veil.

7th-Level Psychic Spells: antimagic field, banishment, ego
whip V*, forcecage, grasping hand, greater arcane sight, greater
scrying, greater teleport, id insinuation IV*, insanity, instant
summons, limited wish, mage’s magnificent mansion, mage’s
sword, mass hold person, mass invisibility, mental barrier V*,
mind blank, phase door, power word blind, project image, psychic
crush III*, repulsion, reverse gravity, sequester, simulacrum, spell
turning, telekinetic sphere, teleport object, tower of iron will III*,
vision, waves of exhaustion, word of recall.

8th-Level Psychic Spells: antipathy, binding, mass charm
monster, clenched fist, demand, dimensional lock, discern location,
earthquake, etherealness, greater planar ally, greater planar binding,
greater prying eyes, greater shout, greater spell immunity, iron body,
irresistible dance, maze, moment of prescience, power word stun,
prismatic wall, protection from spells, psychic crush IV*, refuge,
scintillating pattern, screen, sympathy, temporal stasis, tower of
iron will IV*, trap the soul.

9th-Level Psychic Spells: astral projection, crushing
hand, dominate monster, foresight, freedom, gate, implosion,
imprisonment, mage’s disjunction, mass hold monster, power
word kill, psychic crush V*, soul bind, teleportation circle, time
stop, tower of iron will V*, wail of the banshee, weird, wish.

(HAH! spells. As if you need incantations to make these things work through the psychic . . . bah! Psychics don't do these things by speaking an unintelligible language.)

As you can see, the Psychic does have one creation "spell", minor creation. I can't find major creation or the true creation spells in the list.

DISCIPLINE OF CREATION
The psychic has unlocked his inner potential and now fused his consciousness, his body, and his sub-conscious into one entity = the Complete Man. You are able to create anything and call anything towards you by sending out a strong vibration, like a sound, and attracting those with the same sound to you. As if you are a magnet.

  • Phrenic Pool: Intelligence.
  • Class skill: Knowledge: Arcana (a. yep, Craft would work better. b. Craft (Aethereal Object)?)

  • Bonus Spells: Charm Person (1st) (this spell is pretty much the psionic power attraction, and vice versa. It can be reversed as Repel person to mimick Repulsion), Summon minor monster (2nd); minor creation (7th), summon junior (9th), major creation (11th), true creation (17th)

    GM's should allow the Psychic to create anything out of his imagination. Nothing should be left out. However, GMs can be sneaky little b******ds, and drop a complex machine in pieces, if they like.


  • EltonJ wrote:
    GM's should allow the Psychic to create anything out of his imagination. Nothing should be left out.

    That's ridiculous.

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    Quote:
    GM's should allow the Psychic to create anything out of his imagination. Nothing should be left out. However, GMs can be sneaky little b******ds, and drop a complex machine in pieces, if they like.

    That's how the wish spell works. That's a 9th level spell with a costly material component. You can't build a class around that type of function. First level characters are limited. That is the nature of the game.

    Green Lantern isn't first level character. Neither is Superman. When you're complaining that a first level wizard isn't a wizard because he can't act like Doctor Strange yet, you're fighting the nature of the system.

    Your 'fully active' Conscious character is a high level character, because he's unlocking the highest powers of his techniques, same as a Wizard who is unlocking world-changing arcane secrets, or a Barbarian who can duel a dragon.

    Quote:
    (HAH! spells. As if you need incantations to make these things work through the psychic . . . bah! Psychics don't do these things by speaking an unintelligible language.)

    Psychics DON'T have vocal components. They have emotional and thought components. Isn't that what you need?

    I think a Psychic Discipline with properly chosen bonus spells, or possibly an archetype that adds some choices to the spell list, will serve your needs.


    Yeah.

    I don't like how the wish spell is worded. It's too bureaucratic. But what can you do. *shrug* All of that should be for the GM. (advice to the GM on how to grant wishes).

    -----

    DESCRIPTION
    Wish is the mightiest spell a wizard or sorcerer can cast. By simply speaking aloud, you can alter reality to better suit you. Even wish, however, has its limits. A wish can produce any one of the following effects.

    Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 8th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.
    Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 7th level or lower, provided the spell does not belong to one of your opposition schools.
    Duplicate any sorcerer/wizard spell of 7th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.

    * Duplicate any non-sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, even if it belongs to one of your opposition schools.
    *Undo the harmful effects of many other spells, such as geas/quest or insanity.

    * Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three wishes for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.

    *Remove injuries and afflictions. A single wish can aid one creature per caster level, and all subjects are cured of the same kind of affliction. For example, you could heal all the damage you and your companions have taken, or remove all poison effects from everyone in the party, but not do both with the same wish.

    *Revive the dead. A wish can bring a dead creature back to life by duplicating a resurrection spell. A wish can revive a dead creature whose body has been destroyed, but the task takes two wishes: one to recreate the body and another to infuse the body with life again. A wish cannot prevent a character who was brought back to life from gaining a permanent negative level.
    Transport travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.
    Undo misfortune. A wish can undo a single recent event. The wish forces a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish could undo an opponent's successful save, a foe's successful critical hit (either the attack roll or the critical roll), a friend's failed save, and so on. The re-roll, however, may be as bad as or worse than the original roll. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and Spell Resistance (if any) applies.

    * You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment, at the GM's discretion.)

    * Duplicated spells allow saves and Spell Resistance as normal (but save DCs are for 9th-level spells).

    When a wish duplicates a spell with a material component that costs more than 10,000 gp, you must provide that component (in addition to the 25,000 gp diamond component for this spell).

    ---------------------------------------

    A psychic discipline is the best way to go.


    Kryzbyn wrote:
    EltonJ wrote:
    GM's should allow the Psychic to create anything out of his imagination. Nothing should be left out.
    That's ridiculous.

    Read Green Lantern lately? you know what the selling point for that comic is, right?

    "Imagine if the ring on your finger was more than a piece of gaudy jewelry. Instead, it’s the universe’s most powerful weapon. It can create whatever you wish out of pure energy, its might limited only by your imagination and will. And with it comes exclusive membership to an exclusive intergalactic police force with alien officers spanning the cosmos."
    -- from D.C. Comics, their selling point for the Green Lantern comic.

    I see Hal Jordan as a stark Metaphor.

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    And a high-level spellcaster with access to major creation, fabricate, and gate, with wish and shadow conjuration to fill in any gaps can create nearly anything they imagine. But that doesn't mean you can make a 6th level character that can make anything they imagine.


    Ross Byers wrote:
    And a high-level spellcaster with access to major creation, fabricate, and gate, with wish and shadow conjuration to fill in any gaps can create nearly anything they imagine. But that doesn't mean you can make a 6th level character that can make anything they imagine.

    Well, with this class, 1st through 15th level are developmental stages. We can take a look at it that way. A Psychic with the Disclipine of Creation can be considered to be in Kindergarten until level 5, then they are in Grade School until level 10, then middle school until level 12, then high school until level 15, after that they graduate to their full powers.

    Would that help?

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    Not anymore than a wizard is in kindergarten, no.

    I'm not trying to argue about how class levels work. It just seemed like you were saying that your character should be able to request anything from the beginning, which just isn't how the game works.

    I think it's really clever select charm person as the 2nd level bonus spell (that is, the 1st level spell granted at 2nd level), because it is the kind of 'attraction' a first level character might be able to use. We can also slot in fabricate at 10th level, shadow conjuration 8th, and greater shadow conjuration at 14th. 18th level could go to gate or wish.

    What would you design as the discipline powers?


    Ross Byers wrote:
    Not anymore than a wizard is in kindergarten, no.

    Oh, I see.

    Well, Pathfinder is a game where you have to set goals to get to where you are. It's pretty much a product of our Goal Oriented culture.

    Perhaps if I did a MM 3rd Edition of what I'm trying to express, and then help you realize that I tried to say, "Yes, you're right" in my last post.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -

    A psychic at level 1 with the discipline of Creation isn't going to be as powerful, at first sight, as he could be compared to a Wizard. Remember, a level 1 psychic just experienced gnosis. He's had his AHA moment, and he's exploring what he can do.

    A Wizard had to study this stuff. He was also indoctrinated, or if he was lucky, educated; by a Demagogue or Pedagogue. A Wizard does not experience gnosis.

    A psychic had a gnosis experience and is now his exploring his powers. Every level represents a gain in confidence, not a gain in knowledge. The power is already inside him. He is discovering what he can do, enlarging his horizons. Psychics learn as they go, a Wizard understands the theory and philosophical terms of magic.

    A Wizard's way to power is through study. A cleric gains his power by how spiritual he is ($%^*, that really, really, REALLY sounded bad). A psychic gains this through self reflection and self inspection.


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    ...


    I like this topic and am happy to be a part of it!


    Kryzbyn wrote:
    ...

    Man . . . sorry. I can only relate through personal experience. Man, I'm connecting to the psychic class in a very big way. Ahem. . .

    Kryzbyn, just forget it. I am in Sage mode.


    You've just explained the in-game fluff behind the mechanical leveling process, in a discussion about why you think an "attraction" psychic should be able to create whatever he wants, whenever he wants, GM be damned.

    So, I hope you'll forgive my confusion.


    Odraude wrote:
    I like this topic and am happy to be a part of it!

    Ahem.

    Discipline of Creation

    The psychic has unlocked his inner potential and now fused his consciousness, his body, and his sub-conscious into one entity = the Complete Man. You are able to create anything and call anything towards you by sending out a strong vibration, like a sound, and attracting those with the same sound to you. As [/if you are a magnet.
    [list]

  • Phrenic Pool: Intelligence.
  • Class skill: Knowledge: Arcana (a. yep, Craft would work better. b. Craft (Aethereal Object)?)
  • Bonus "spells": Charm Person (2nd) (this spell is pretty much the psionic power attraction, and vice versa. It can be reversed as Repel person to mimick Repulsion), Summon minor monster (4th) (this spell represents actual research done by the U.S. Government, where the psychics could only summon a mouse -- until Duncan Cameron actually summoned Junior under hypnosis), minor creation (7th), shadow conjuration (8th), fabricate (10th), major creation (11th), true creation (17th), Wish (18th)

    ---
    Powers, I'm not sure yet. hmm . . .

    How about --
    Cool under Pressure: An immediate action during a stressful situation allows a +2 DC to conjuration effects.

    Spark of Genius: ideas come quickly. The creative can use Fox's Cunning a number of times equal to his intelligence modifier.

    -- Lacking a third power -- I might get it after lunch. :)


  • Kryzbyn wrote:


    You've just explained the in-game fluff behind the mechanical leveling process, in a discussion about why you think an "attraction" psychic should be able to create whatever he wants, whenever he wants, GM be damned.

    So, I hope you'll forgive my confusion.

    No, Ross reminded me that this is a game where we like to set goals. So, I acknowledged he was right and I was wrong.

    RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

    Summon minor monster is a First level spell. There is no reason to restrict a character with real magic powers to those uncovered in Cold War research that likely never happened. Try looking for a second level spell for that spot.

    Likewise, there is no 17th level bonus spell. They come on even levels.


    16th?

    And -- Summon Monster II.


    Metacreativity, the 6th psionic discipline which joined the original 5 in the first iteration of D&D's 3rd edition, was, in my opinion, shoe-horned into the system because they needed a self-contained 6th discipline (because Metapsionics was turned into feats) in order to realize an equal compliment of ability scores to disciplines. The first iteration of XPH was incredibly and perfectly MAD (multiple ability dependent), for better or for worse.

    The Rifts role-playing game had 4 'disciplines': Physical (Psychokinesis), Sensitive (Clairsentience), Healing (Psychometabolism), and Super (Telepathy plus super versions of all the other ones too). It's been a common drive for RPGs to organize and classify their psi-paradigms.

    What I like about this Occult book is that the emphasis on classification is de-stressed, whereas the emphasis on the specific the engine of the psi-powers itself is front and center. A Medium taps the supernatural much differently than an Occultist or a Mesmerist. It's really kind of neat. Standing on the shoulders of the 8 giants (schools of magic) frees up creative space.

    What is a 'psionicist'? Anything and nothing at once. The term is so flavorable so as not to have any inherent flavor. This isn't a good or bad thing - merely an observation. Thus came the titles Egoist, Nomad, Savant, Shaper, Seer, and Telepath - overall pretty subpar or simply misleading or non-evocative. None of this is Dreamscarred Press's fault - their job was to revamp or 'pathfinderize' the mechanics: a job well done!

    Speaking of them, what if DSP created a conversion book to reconcile the 'differences' between psionics and psychic magic to treat them as the same power source (ie psionics = psychic magic, schools changed to disciplines)? That could be cool for those who want to play a unified 'psionics is different' variant. Just a thought.

    I like Ross's Class Analysis better. Here's a riddle: How is a playtester like a blacksmith?...

    I'm going to go unconsciously manifest some chicken nuggets see you later!


    Haha! :)

    RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

    True creation was an 8th level spell in 3.5. It would fit perfectly at 16th class level if you update it to Pathfinder.

    For summoning monsters, summon monster ii becomes dead weight after awhile. Maybe summoning critters could be one of the discipline abilities? That way it could scale with level.


    I can see that working. Although, I'm stuffing my face full of food right now, and I can't think of something witty to call it. So, give me one half hour.


    Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

    Are average people supposed to be able to understand this thread? I honestly can't tell if this is sort of like the thread where the wiccan explained how wrong the witch class is, or if something else is happening. I don't mean this to troll... I really want to understand what's happening here.


    I'm doing my best to make understandable. :) Sorry for blowing you away.

    Here's what I mean in plain English.

    --- There isn't a psychic discipline or class that creates things.

    --- We're working on one, that is a discipline.


    My short reflections:

    there are not a clear disctinction between soul (incarnum) source of power, spirit as a source of power and mind as a source of power.

    Those three things are quite different.

    Kineticist is basically elementalist. He would fit as an elemental variant of warlock. Basically Avatar the Last Airbender.

    Medium is like shaman, and should be strictly connected with him. There were voices that shaman is a different flavour with spirits living everywhere while psychic magic should be about soul. But medium isn't about soul - it's about spirits medium binds.
    So it's basically shaman who use spirits to infuse himself rather than his spells. Binder is close, but vestiges is kinda different than your typical shamanic spirits, more occult than spiritual.

    Mesmerist - basically sorcerer illusionist in my opinion.

    Psychic - classic full Vancian caster. Nothing to add. Spare just like arcanist were ;)

    Spiritualist - emmm summoner?

    Occultist - I get occult means closed so he's looking for magic closed in everyday stuff. Yeah get it. But I was expected really for something more like thaumaturge/binder. Something with serious ritual magic. Dark and dangerous.


    Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
    EltonJ wrote:

    I'm doing my best to make understandable. :) Sorry for blowing you away.

    Here's what I mean in plain English.

    --- There isn't a psychic discipline or class that creates things.

    --- We're working on one, that is a discipline.

    Thank you, so far. Please define "things". Do you envision specifically creating physical, tangible objects? I ask for this clarification because quite a bit of the earlier and lengthier posts in the thread discuss outcomes.


    Anguish wrote:
    EltonJ wrote:

    I'm doing my best to make understandable. :) Sorry for blowing you away.

    Here's what I mean in plain English.

    --- There isn't a psychic discipline or class that creates things.

    --- We're working on one, that is a discipline.

    Thank you, so far. Please define "things". Do you envision specifically creating physical, tangible objects? I ask for this clarification because quite a bit of the earlier and lengthier posts in the thread discuss outcomes.

    He wants something with the same type of abilities as a Shaper, bu thematically fitting with this book.

    Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    rainzax wrote:
    Speaking of them, what if DSP created a conversion book to reconcile the 'differences' between psionics and psychic magic to treat them as the same power source (ie psionics = psychic magic, schools changed to disciplines)? That could be cool for those who want to play a unified 'psionics is different' variant. Just a thought.

    You're talking about a very wide gap to be bridged. DSP's classes are all power point based psi powers, whereas Occult Mysteries is almost the complete opposite. They really don't have any common ground to bridge.


    This whole thread. Need more fire.


    I got nuthin'.


    Vulcan Don Rickles wrote:
    I got nuthin'.

    Now you have tribbles. No need to thank me.


    LazarX wrote:
    rainzax wrote:
    Speaking of them, what if DSP created a conversion book to reconcile the 'differences' between psionics and psychic magic to treat them as the same power source (ie psionics = psychic magic, schools changed to disciplines)? That could be cool for those who want to play a unified 'psionics is different' variant. Just a thought.
    You're talking about a very wide gap to be bridged. DSP's classes are all power point based psi powers, whereas Occult Mysteries is almost the complete opposite. They really don't have any common ground to bridge.

    a class-by-class conversion guide from slot-based to point-based casting. sort of what undercasting and burn is trying to do.


    Going back to the original post, and in particular the Occultist class, an inspiration seems to be the character Carnacki the Ghost Finder, an "occult investigator" who starred in a series of short stories by William Hope Hodgson (published around the 1910's I think). Carnacki often used an "electric pentacle" and other implements, as well as magic circles and such during investigations.

    Hodgson is largely know today as being an influence of Lovecraft, and his stories hopefully indicate the kind of pulpy old-school "occult" Paizo is going for with this whole book. Most of his work is public domain by now I think. I'm pretty sure you can find it on Project Gutenberg, among other places with an internet search.

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