Goblin Squad Member
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It may be not only a basis for 'meaningful interaction', but if meta-rivalries manage to grow interesting it might enhance interest in the game.
Look what BoB and the Goons and others did for Eve.
That's all well and good when the animosity can be expressed in-game. When the ill will can only be expressed on the forums, it just festers. Let's hope GW can get PVP windows working Real Soon.
Re: Being the smartest one around - My younger brother had a rude shock when he entered West Point. Suddenly, instead of being one of the smartest people in his high school, everyone around him had been among the smartest in their own high schools. I think that change did a world of good for his attitude toward other people.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Had the same debate come up a year ago I'm sure the members of TEO and TSV would have defended me in the same manner.
I'm not fooled. You may have had minor disagreements with Nihimon you got over. I've had minor disagreements with Nihimon I've gotten over. I don't think he would have just gotten over it were he placed in the same situation and had the same perspective on what the outcome would bring. And I think he might be surprised to find that if we had switched shoes I would have had his back.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Had the same debate come up a year ago. I'm sure the members of TEO and TSV would have defended me in the same manner.
I'm not fooled. You may have had minor disagreements with Nihimon you got over. I've had minor disagreements with Nihimon I've gotten over. I don't think he would have just gotten over it were he placed in the same situation and had the same perspective on what the outcome would bring. And I think he might be surprised to find that if we had switched shoes I would have had his back.
That perhaps is the point: your argument is moot because there is NO way he would have anywhere near the same perspective of the situation as you did.
You viewed what happened with TEO as a personal affront, a betrayal of all 'your' hard work. You felt that everyone should listen to you because you knew best and have all this 'experience in the field.'
Had the same thing happened to us, Nihimon would not have taken things so personally. He is not the type who thinks he is always right, or that he knows best. He is intelligent and often IS right, but he is not averse to be proven incorrect.
In fact, if I'm not mistaken, in the land rush debacle Nihimon gave up on his first choice for a settlement location because our community as a whole decided and voted on something different.
Would you have done the same?
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I'm not sure about those, as I cannot read closely his innermost soul, but I can affirm that he has twice complimented me for owning my own errors.
On the other end, most people in our T7V TS just told me to ignore you or to lie to you to make you shut up.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My issue was less what happened and who caused it to happen.
Had the SE settlement pick been primarily pushed by Nihimon, JakBlitz, Solemor, Drahkan, Lifedragn or any number of people who I felt had earned the right to come have a major voice in such crucial policy decisions I may very well have reacted differently. I would have settled for a great many possible locations other than K. I was willing to settle for anywhere north of the Mosswater and found the area around The Emerald Spire and Thornkeep an acceptable compromise.
The fact is that is was the single place on the map that I was most adamantly opposed to because I felt, and still feel, it would doom TEO and our allies and it was pushed by Cheatle and Forencith. Someone who joined the week before and someone who had abandoned TSV in the past.
Were Nihimon put in a similar position I have no doubt he would react in a similar fashion. And you can bet that at the time, if I had seen a newcomer and person of wavering loyalties pushing a decision that would have had Nihimon leaving TSV I would have backed him up 100% even if I felt he was wrong.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Were Nihimon put in a similar position I have no doubt he would react in a similar fashion. And you can bet that at the time, if I had seen a newcomer and person of wavering loyalties pushing a decision that would have had Nihimon leaving TSV I would have backed him up 100% even if I felt he was wrong.
I don't just think you are wrong, I know you are wrong.
Sorry.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Lol.Congratulations on your graduation to full Trollhood Audocet.
/edit
And for the record, in my 2+ years with T7V, I can't think of a recruitment that created more internal positive buzz for us, than the day we "got" Being.
I'm curious Audoucet. Now that you've gone from the inside as well to the outside can you understand how I feel about TSV?
I thought it was funny how quickly they started calling me a troll and a murderhobo based simply off the fact I was smearing them and planned to kill them when I treated UNC exactly the same way I treat them now, and openly expressed the intent to do the exact same things I'm going to do to them to UNC and they were 100% ok with that. Most of them felt the same way.
I wonder if they consider the way they treat UNC on the forums "trolling" and the war they've expressed they intend to wage on Aragon "griefing". Of course not. That's only when we do it to them. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's not a perspective I expect everyone to understand or appreciate because it's not something most people get to experience on any kind of consistent basis, whereas I have.
Perhaps not. But you might consider the perspective that some of us do understand, and were, in fact, an analogue of you thirty years ago. I ask that you imagine (for a moment) yourself, thirty years from now, perhaps having come to the conclusion that being right isn't always the most important thing. There are some things where being right matters. A lot. Like the correct partial pressure of a lethal or flammable gas when you need the gas to be present, but too much will be catastrophic. There are some times and places, like the best place to pick for an in-game settlement, or the purest path to success for a newly designed game, where being right simply isn't worth creating enmities that will last for weeks or years.
I don't think anyone on these boards doubts that you are a smart man, Andius.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you strive to be civic-minded, friendly, and helpful, you're held to an impossible standard. Whereas if you're rude, dismissive, and insulting, you get a free pass.
While I don't agree it's impossible, it's certainly higher. And while I don't think it's a free pass, it's certainly lower. That's the way humans have always seen each other.
We can treat that as burden, or as an opportunity to challenge ourselves to exceed everyone else, or we can ignore it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You should check in with Aragon. In a recent diplomatic discussion Bluddwolf made it a point of order that the Sentinels of the Echo Wood generally, and you specifically, were not part of Aragon.
Lol, I'm guessing you think this is some big reveal. Andius is aware that he is not a member of the UNC. He is aware that the Sentinels of Echo Wood are not a sponsored company of Aragon, in alpha. He was the one who declined the offer to take a seat on the Council of Aragon. He knows that we do not have the same goals, or at least not on the same timeline as he does. There are no secrets and never have been with the UNC. We are the most honest and open company when it comes to our intentions.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You should check in with Aragon. In a recent diplomatic discussion Bluddwolf made it a point of order that the Sentinels of the Echo Wood generally, and you specifically, were not part of Aragon.Lol, I'm guessing you think this is some big reveal. Andius is aware that he is not a member of the UNC. He is aware that the Sentinels of Echo Wood are not a sponsored company of Aragon, in alpha. He was the one who declined the offer to take a seat on the Council of Aragon.
I'm fairly sure I've read Andius state this before on this very board, too.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm fairly sure I've read Andius state this before on this very board, too.You should check in with Aragon. In a recent diplomatic discussion Bluddwolf made it a point of order that the Sentinels of the Echo Wood generally, and you specifically, were not part of Aragon.Lol, I'm guessing you think this is some big reveal. Andius is aware that he is not a member of the UNC. He is aware that the Sentinels of Echo Wood are not a sponsored company of Aragon, in alpha. He was the one who declined the offer to take a seat on the Council of Aragon.
You may have, because it is a fact.
I'm encouraged by the PMs that I have received, and the comments in this thread that have shown me support. This thread should make it clear, what lengths some people will go to to try to discredit or try to silence any decent to these self proclaimed " civic-minded, friendly, and helpful" individuals.
Perhaps this was all a ploy to deflect from my original point, that the PVP system that is currently in place is not MVP ready.
There is no PVP system until Risk vs. Reward is implemented. That requires a fully implemented encumbrance system, threading limitations and player (husk) looting.
Ryan had written that many of the things we are asking for, are already being worked on. I'm hopeful that these are just a few of them, and that they find their way in sooner rather than later.
I will continue to respond by bringing the conversation back to that point. As for the baiting, I will respond with nothing more than, "We see you."
I'll also note that baiting is against the forum rules, but I will not flag any posts. Enough damage has already been done.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You should check in with Aragon. In a recent diplomatic discussion Bluddwolf made it a point of order that the Sentinels of the Echo Wood generally, and you specifically, were not part of Aragon.Lol, I'm guessing you think this is some big reveal. Andius is aware that he is not a member of the UNC. He is aware that the Sentinels of Echo Wood are not a sponsored company of Aragon, in alpha. He was the one who declined the offer to take a seat on the Council of Aragon. He knows that we do not have the same goals, or at least not on the same timeline as he does. There are no secrets and never have been with the UNC. We are the most honest and open company when it comes to our intentions.
Perhaps you could more clearly spell out what it was you were trying to convey when you pulled Decius and me aside after the Tower NAP discussion. I got the impression at the time that you were attempting to distance yourself, UNC, and Aragaon, from the "unhinged nemesis" status that you described Andius having.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I joined Aragon under the simple understanding that it's a place I could live and pursue my own individual in-game goals.
I declined status on the Council of Aragon because I have my own set of political aims that do not coincide 100% with those of the UnNamed Company or even Aragon and Katalphys as a whole. I did not want to play the role of someone who comes into the organization, not having helped build it, and infact having worked against it in the past, and expecting everyone to change to suit my interests.
I am basically a free agent living within the lands of Aragon working together with them where our aims coincide.
That's been the understanding between us for quite some time. Aragon is fully aware of my motives for joining and where my aims lie, and I am fully aware they are going to put the interests of those who have deeper loyalties to Aragon before mine.
Were I asked to part ways I would thank Aragon for taking me despite our history, and leave with considerably higher opinions of them than I did before getting to know them. They are a tight knit lot who while may play the role of badguys are loyal to their friends, and have eachother's backs. Were my aims to be a bandit I'd throw in my lot with them 100%.
But I haven't been asked to part ways yet, so for now I call Aragon home.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Perhaps you could more clearly spell out what it was you were trying to convey when you pulled Decius and me aside after the Tower NAP discussion. I got the impression at the time that you were attempting to distance yourself, UNC, and Aragaon, from the "unhinged nemesis" status that you described Andius having.
I have had the same conversation with Andius. I've told him on more than one occasion he needs to calm down a bit, He's always been somewhat of a zealot. I have also told him that his wars may not necessarily be ours.
Again, it appears that you are trying to put out some kind of a "big reveal".
I'm straight forward, blunt even. I have no problem telling Andius he is a lunatic sometimes, He'd probably laugh and agree. Just like I'll admit I can be a monumental a-hole, and I like to play that role when it serves a purpose.
The thing about honesty and having a very loose structure of leadership, or association, is that it is very difficult to drive a wedge into chaos. Everyone is free to say what they wish, come and go as they wish and do pretty much as they please. We don't have any hearings or meetings to grill anyone on what they say or do, or who they are friends or associated with.
"It's about freedom, baby, Yeah!!"
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Goblin Squad Member
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But I haven't been asked to part ways yet, so for now I call Aragon home.
That certainly won't happen at anyone else's prodding either. You are welcome to call Aragon your home, as it will likely be a very open settlement.
If we are able to, I have every intention of opening up our settlement to characters with Reputations somewhere below -2500.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah I think people underestimate both Katalphys' pride and their power. I don't feel like any group is in a position to try intimidating Kathalphys. Most groups have issues where there are a small group of experienced PvPers (if that) who are either competing for power with those who have little to none or, who are basically treated like chained dogs.
When war comes there will be too few dogs who've been kept chained too long to protect the many sheep they've tried to make the backbone of their nation.
Kathalphys is a settlement of wolves were the wolves run free. The first group to try swatting them with a newspaper is going to get a mauling they won't soon forget.
He's always been somewhat of a zealot.
Diplomatically put. But there is no somewhat about it. lol
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Goblin Squad Member
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Again, it appears that you are trying to put out some kind of a "big reveal".
*sigh*
I was quite simply trying to determine if you were just playing Decius and me to try to get us to quit fighting you in-game. I'm not sure anymore what your purpose was in pulling us aside and talking to us. At any rate, it sounds like the best way to move forward is to assume it was utterly meaningless, and to continue our prior course of action.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am just hanging my head at everything in the last couple of pages.
Why did this devolve in such flames?
To all sides: There are better things to do with your time than bait each other, and there are people watching this thread with delight, malicious delight.
If I can get back on point here:
We have seen some bug fixes, Encumbrance has been somewhat added, icons and some Combat upgrades have happened, some re-balancing, and some commoner/expert features have been added.
I would say that is a good start. What do you all think?
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Goblin Squad Member
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At any rate, it sounds like the best way to move forward is to assume it was utterly meaningless, and to continue our prior course of action.
The destruction of Phaeros has never been a priority on the Aragonian agenda as far as I've observed. Aragon is primarily a settlement of raiders looking to for loot and fun who would be perfectly content to make off with your stuff without doing too much longterm damage.
However Aragon is also a powerful force who's members enjoy combat and I have no doubts that a full on war will spur excitement and give them a reason to log in.
Having talked with you as much as I have I knew the war between Phaeros and Aragon was inevitable. You never had any intention of leaving Aragon in peace and you and I both know that. We discussed together how we would destroy UNC, and I don't imagine those plans went away when I did. It's one of the reasons I chose to join them is, because I knew this day would come. I'm just a convenient excuse to use for what you've planned all along. If I wasn't here it would be something else.
I do hope you realize though, that this is exactly what I want. Before it was me looking to destroy you with a tiny handful of followers. If you press an aggressive war against Aragon, and by virtue Kathalphys, you add a nation of PvPers to my cause.
Thank you.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am just hanging my head at everything in the last couple of pages.
Why did this devolve in such flames?
To all sides: There are better things to do with your time than bait each other, and there are people watching this thread with delight, malicious delight.
If I can get back on point here:
We have seen some bug fixes, Encumbrance has been somewhat added, icons and some Combat upgrades have happened, some re-balancing, and some commoner/expert features have been added.
I would say that is a good start. What do you all think?
I think that it is measurable progress. They really need to nail down and kill the involuntary movement bug. I am trying, but finding it difficult to keep a "smiley" face. Some days are better than others. Monday all of my characters were moved. Today none were. I am hoping that they snuck in some small server patch or tweaked something.
Tester Prime (whoever it was today) seemed to indicate that tracking code was put in to help them resolve the issue. I like that. It says to me that it is a tough problem but they are really going after it.
I like the way that light reflects from my armor. I think that there were some graphical improvements.
Also I found the last T1 recipe that I hadn't yet. I like that too. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Again, it appears that you are trying to put out some kind of a "big reveal".*sigh*
I was quite simply trying to determine if you were just playing Decius and me to try to get us to quit fighting you in-game. I'm not sure anymore what your purpose was in pulling us aside and talking to us. At any rate, it sounds like the best way to move forward is to assume it was utterly meaningless, and to continue our prior course of action.
I pulled you aside to clarify that one (or a few) person's feud does not make a state of war. I have always said the actions of a few would be dealt with as either KOS or a feud. I can't stop you if you are Hell bent for war.
My intentions were never to stop any form of PvP, we welcome it. I'm just hopeful that it is PvP that has full implementation that includes all of the risks and rewards that it is supposed to.
I've read your comments that you are anxious for PvP, but never that you want those risks that go along with it. So lend your voice to my call for full implementation of encumbrance, threading limits and player looting, and voice that often. Maybe if enough of us call for it as part of MVP it will happen.
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the ego clashing here is amazing!! one of the things keeping this game alive is this forum and all his drama( most fun than playing the game in current state), good job!
" one just need to best you in one thing to beat you".
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Goblin Squad Member
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We can treat that as burden, or as an opportunity to challenge ourselves to exceed everyone else, or we can ignore it.
I have no interest in challenging myself to exceed everyone else in milquetoastery. I am outspoken, opinionated, and largely unperturbed by conflict. I try to write with enough clarity that intelligent readers will at least respect the reasoning.
I didn't look for conflict with UNC, but I didn't shy away from it either, and I'm not going to shy away from it now just because some folks have the delusion that these forums would be more civil if I shut up.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that it is measurable progress. They really need to nail down and kill the involuntary movement bug. I am trying, but finding it difficult to keep a "smiley" face. Some days are better than others. Monday all of my characters were moved. Today none were. I am hoping that they snuck in some small server patch or tweaked something.
Tester Prime (whoever it was today) seemed to indicate that tracking code was put in to help them resolve the issue. I like that. It says to me that it is a tough problem but they are really going after it.
I like the way that light reflects from my armor. I think that there were some graphical improvements.
Also I found the last T1 recipe that I hadn't yet. I like that too. ;)
Server pretty much broke last night around 2:30am. Entire hexes had disappeared and character vault was reset to like 2 days ago.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I pulled you aside to clarify that one (or a few) person's feud does not make a state of war. I have always said the actions of a few would be dealt with as either KOS or a feud. I can't stop you if you are Hell bent for war.My intentions were never to stop any form of PvP, we welcome it. I'm just hopeful that it is PvP that has full implementation that includes all of the risks and rewards that it is supposed to.
I've read your comments that you are anxious for PvP, but never that you want those risks that go along with it. So lend your voice to my call for full implementation of encumbrance, threading limits and player looting, and voice that often. Maybe if enough of us call for it as part of MVP it will happen.
I think pretty much everyone agrees those things need to be in and need to be in soon. The only debate is whether or not it's OK to give the economy a couple weeks/month head start before it's in.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think pretty much everyone agrees those things need to be in and need to be in soon. The only debate is whether or not it's OK to give the economy a couple weeks/month head start before it's in.
The couple of days or weeks will largely be natural, as the earliest gear will be completely threaded.
The gathering of resources will likewise be mostly unhindered because what few players do dabble in banditry, can not be in all places at all times.
If there is anything that PFO should copy from EvE, it is its economic model. EvE did not give its player economy a head start by not having PvP, it gave the head start by seeding the markets with very low end gear.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've read your comments that you are anxious for PvP, but never that you want those risks that go along with it.
Well, at least you're no longer accusing me of not wanting PvP at all. Perhaps it will eventually sink in that I've never opposed the associated risks either.
So lend your voice to my call for full implementation of encumbrance, threading limits and player looting, and voice that often. Maybe if enough of us call for it as part of MVP it will happen.
I don't think player looting is necessary for MVP. In fact, I think player looting prior to being able to declare Feuds would create the wrong incentives and unbalance the game in the favor of those who embrace killing other players for their gear. But I don't think Feuds are necessary for MVP, either.
I've come to accept that there will likely be duplication bugs, equipment loss bugs, progress-loss bugs, and a variety of other very serious, game-impacting bugs throughout Early Enrollment. Vastly larger teams with significantly longer development schedules have had those bugs in their fully released games; it strikes me as unreasonable to expect Goblinworks will not. Because of that, the presence of these serious bugs right now doesn't really bother me, and I'd be fine to start EE tomorrow. But that's just one man's opinion, and it's not in my nature to raise a hue and cry to make the devs do what I want.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think pretty much everyone agrees those things need to be in and need to be in soon. The only debate is whether or not it's OK to give the economy a couple weeks/month head start before it's in.The couple of days or weeks will largely be natural, as the earliest gear will be completely threaded.
The gathering of resources will likewise be mostly unhindered because what few players do dabble in banditry, can not be in all places at all times.
If there is anything that PFO should copy from EvE, it is its economic model. EvE did not give its player economy a head start by not having PvP, it gave the head start by seeding the markets with very low end gear.
If that's the case, then it doesn't make any significant difference to headstart the economy or not because we won't PvP'ing anyways, right? Why not start and accumulate xp? Not seeding low end gear is a design decision so that very low end gear that new players have to make will always have a market.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Question: The game is running using the rules d20 or are new rules?
PFO will not be based on d20/OGL. See Murder by Numbers for more information.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Question: The game is running using the rules d20 or are new rules?
Why I have to pay to test a game? it suposed to be the other way, i have a friend who works at testing games and they pay them very well...
The game is based in Golarion, it is attempting to be faithful to the concepts of the table top game, but using rules and mechanics that just are not possible on the table top.
As to testing, there were keys distributed to test out Alpha. If it bothers you that you do not get paid to test in Early Enrollment, perhaps your friend can get you a job where he works.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was thinking low end gear was pretty heavily seeded anyway. :Transfers another eight Tier1+0 spears to Bankbot:
Lol, yeah spears, axes, wands, longbows and tokens. Good luck getting armor or a shortsword. You get stuff, but there should always be a market for tier 0 crafted stuff because getting your entire starter set from goblins and bandits is a frustrating exercise.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As to testing, there were keys distributed to test out Alpha. If it bothers you that you do not get paid to test in Early Enrollment, perhaps your friend can get you a job where he works.
@Urman,
That was a bit harsh, it is a fair question that has come up before, and has been answered in a civil fashion with facts, quotes and details.
Let people with that info share it with Juda, and allow another potential player to learn about what MVP, Alpha/EE and OE is, and why GW has chosen the "Early Access" paid model. :)
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