Like I had an idea the fighter might be a bit more appealing if he had some way to perform well in social encounters. As if he exudes so much confidence in his skills and abilities he has a sort of personal magnetism that attracts people to him, maybe so much so he can be a "face" character.
Maybe this is a stupid idea. Just something I thought of, I'd love anyone's opinions on whether this is a good/bad idea or the actual crunch of this feature. A scaling bonus like Bravery, perhaps?
Give him/her a high CHA?
There are no feats or class features that let a fighter do what you want him to do.
You'll have to make them up.
Bravery to his Cha checks is a good start. The Karrnathi Method, where you can use Intimidate for Diplomacy rolls, is another, but you probably want to map it to Strength so it's useful.
Being a magical artisan is another. I'd handwave actually needing Craft Arms and Armor, and let him make anything he has the skill points to do.
A third method is leadership, if allowed.
A fourth is letting him use the training rules to up the skill levels of low level NPC's, enabling him to make some badass normal who, while useless in a dungeon, can start populating his castles, school, merc band, kingdom, or whatever, and expanding his influence.
==Aelryinth
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Adding Bravery to straight up Charisma checks is pretty clever actually.
It's reasonable to say that not all fighters are charismatic.
And for fighters who are charismatic, it is more about being a leader of men (and women) with pertinent examples in fantasy archetypes like Beowulf, Boromir, Caramon Majere, Paksenarrion Dorthansdotter and Stannis Baratheon.
Extra skill points, exclusive access to the Leadership feat and magical item crafting are all good options for the fighter class.
Although fighters are still missing an out of combat endeavor to pursue, which doesn't involve crafting magical items.
I have been thinking about the idea of training (like re-training) but instead of swapping feats (a non-associated mechanic) they can empower a feat.
For example: empowering the Mobility feat +6 to AC (+50%), or empowering the Improved Sunder feat +3 CMB (+50%).
Fantasy warriors aren't sewing quilts, or being the life of the party they are waiting for the next time they can make their sword (and themselves) feel alive through combat.
They are preparing for the next time they have to save the world.
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I have been thinking about the idea of training (like re-training) but instead of swapping feats (a non-associated mechanic) they can empower a feat.
For example: empowering the Mobility feat +6 to AC (+50%), or empowering the Improved Sunder feat +3 CMB (+50%).
With the martial fatigue system planned for Pathfinder Unchained, you may be getting a rules system pretty close to this. Slap it onto fighters at first level in your home games.
As for some new ideas:
Offer Sense Motive to use on monster checks, saving you from pouring ranks into different Knowledge skills.
Add Heal to his skill list (especially if you use the expanded rules to use Heal for interrogation and torture).
It's reasonable to say that not all fighters are charismatic.
And for fighters who are charismatic, it is more about being a leader of men (and women) with pertinent examples in fantasy archetypes like Beowulf, Boromir, Caramon Majere, Paksenarrion Dorthansdotter and Stannis Baratheon.
Extra skill points, exclusive access to the Leadership feat and magical item crafting are all good options for the fighter class.
Although fighters are still missing an out of combat endeavor to pursue, which doesn't involve crafting magical items.
I have been thinking about the idea of training (like re-training) but instead of swapping feats (a non-associated mechanic) they can empower a feat.
For example: empowering the Mobility feat +6 to AC (+50%), or empowering the Improved Sunder feat +3 CMB (+50%).
Fantasy warriors aren't sewing quilts, or being the life of the party they are waiting for the next time they can make their sword (and themselves) feel alive through combat.
They are preparing for the next time they have to save the world.
Stannis Baratheon is not a very good example of a charismatic war leader. His brother Renly, though, would fit quite well.
I tried several features out for the Fighter.
My favorite is one that allows the Fighter to get extra bonuses from mental skills, increasing their OOC versatility thanks to more stuff they are good at.
But to address your specific concern, here's another one I've tried.
Veteran's Prowess
At 2nd level, a Fighter can choose one of the following specializations. Each one represents a skill the Fighter has picked up from his combat experience.
- Gut Feeling: In combat, one learns the true nature of people. Your experience with battle has made you able to have accurate hunches. You gain 1/2 of your fighter levels as a bonus to Sense Motive and you may use Sense Motive to feint in combat.
- Spellhunter: Perhaps you don't know any magic tricks, but you know its crucial for a mundane warrior to be prepared. You gain 1/2 of your fighter levels as a bonus to Spellcraft. If you successfully identify a spell this way, you increase the difficulty of the concentration check required to cast that spell by 2 as long as you are threatening the caster.
hahaha woah i fell asleep before i finished typing th cha part of this
Without third party materials typically I'll give a fighter a 14 in INT, CHA, or WIS.
With 14 INT I have access to Combat Expertise and the feats that require it so I have a bit of something going. Craft Alchemy has been useful. Skills in general are just good to have. Typically with Armor training I don't feel the need to minmax my ability to survive hits so I put my favored class bonus to skill points and if I'm human this leads to having 6 ranks per level.
With 14 CHA I go straight to Eldritch Heritage and use one of my traits to get diplomacy as a class skill. I'm not a bard but at a certain point I don't need that much diplomacy.
With 14 Wis I don't know what to really do because I rarely try it. There's nothing that vanilla fighter can really benefit from it other than the boost to will and eating a trait for Perception as a class skill. I guess that's enough but I cant think of any go-to feats off the top of my head.
Other than that, If I go Two Handed Weapon, my main build is done after 5 feats so it leaves my normal feat slots to do whatever I want. I'm also the one who can carry the most things so I tend to be the batman of the group, with a tool for everything and the strength to use them.
With third party material I can take minor magic feats to do a few things, more room to use diplomacy.
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There are no feats or class features that let a fighter do what you want him to do.
You'll have to make them up.
Bravery to his Cha checks is a good start. The Karrnathi Method, where you can use Intimidate for Diplomacy rolls, is another, but you probably want to map it to Strength so it's useful.
Being a magical artisan is another. I'd handwave actually needing Craft Arms and Armor, and let him make anything he has the skill points to do.
A third method is leadership, if allowed.
A fourth is letting him use the training rules to up the skill levels of low level NPC's, enabling him to make some badass normal who, while useless in a dungeon, can start populating his castles, school, merc band, kingdom, or whatever, and expanding his influence.
==Aelryinth
My fighters already do what the OP is requesting, without house rules.
Give him his army back. Allow it to perform 'tasks' on a daily basis that aid the fighter in various ways. From gathering intelligence, to simply providing a presense that gives him a bonus on specific skill checks (both diplomacy and intimidate would benefit significantly if the guy had an army backing him up). Possibly even provide 'advisers' that either aid, or simply give him a different skill bonus to specific skills.
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I tried several features out for the Fighter.
My favorite is one that allows the Fighter to get extra bonuses from mental skills, increasing their OOC versatility thanks to more stuff they are good at.
But to address your specific concern, here's another one I've tried.
Veteran's Prowess
At 2nd level, a Fighter can choose one of the following specializations. Each one represents a skill the Fighter has picked up from his combat experience.
- Gut Feeling: In combat, one learns the true nature of people. Your experience with battle has made you able to have accurate hunches. You gain 1/2 of your fighter levels as a bonus to Sense Motive and you may use Sense Motive to feint in combat.
- Spellhunter: Perhaps you don't know any magic tricks, but you know its crucial for a mundane warrior to be prepared. You gain 1/2 of your fighter levels as a bonus to Spellcraft. If you successfully identify a spell this way, you increase the difficulty of the concentration check required to cast that spell by 2 as long as you are threatening the caster.
I like these ideas and wish to throw my own spin on them.
Combat Veteran
At 2nd level a fighter chooses charisma, wisdom, or intelligence and gains class abilities based on his choice.
Intelligence:
-Brave Mind: Gain a bonus on all intelligence checks and intelligence based skill checks equal to your Bravery bonus. You can make knowledge checks untrained.
-Knew It Was Coming: Gain spellcraft as a class skill. When you use the spellcraft skill to successfully identify a spell gain a bonus equal to your intelligence modifier on your saving throw against that spell.
-Knowing Is Half The Battle: At 6th level, when you successfully identify a monster with a knowledge check, gain a bonus damage rolls equal to your intelligence modifier against that creature.
Wisdom:
-Brave Insight: Gain a bonus on all wisdom checks and wisdom based skill checks equal to your Bravery bonus.
-Go With Your Gut: Gain sense motive as a class skill. You can use sense motive in place of bluff to make feint checks in combat. Gain a bonus equal to your wisdom modifier on hit and damage against opponents you have successfully feinted in combat.
-Quick Feint: At 6th level you can now feint as a move action.
Charisma:
-Brave Personality: Gain a bonus on all charisma checks and charisma based skill checks equal to your Bravery bonus.
-Disarming Grin: Gain diplomacy as a class skill. You can intimidate an opponent as a swift action.
-Willful Warrior: Gain a bonus equal to your charisma modifier on all saves against spells of the enchantment school.
-Press the Advantage: At 6th level, gain a bonus equal to your charisma modifier on hit and damage rolls against a target your have successfully intimidated.
These ideas do make a fighter more MAD, but I added the bonuses here and there to their combat abilities to offset that. I'm certain they need some better balancing and adjustments, but I do like the basic idea behind them. All the best 'fighter' types from stories and movies have quirks about them that they use to their advantage.
Stannis Baratheon is not a very good example of a charismatic war leader. His brother Renly, though, would fit quite well.It's reasonable to say that not all fighters are charismatic.
And for fighters who are charismatic, it is more about being a leader of men (and women) with pertinent examples in fantasy archetypes like Beowulf, Boromir, Caramon Majere, Paksenarrion Dorthansdotter and Stannis Baratheon.
Extra skill points, exclusive access to the Leadership feat and magical item crafting are all good options for the fighter class.
Although fighters are still missing an out of combat endeavor to pursue, which doesn't involve crafting magical items.
I have been thinking about the idea of training (like re-training) but instead of swapping feats (a non-associated mechanic) they can empower a feat.
For example: empowering the Mobility feat +6 to AC (+50%), or empowering the Improved Sunder feat +3 CMB (+50%).
Fantasy warriors aren't sewing quilts, or being the life of the party they are waiting for the next time they can make their sword (and themselves) feel alive through combat.
They are preparing for the next time they have to save the world.
In the books (Song of Fire and Ice series), Stannis is an experienced and successful battle commander while Renly just looks the part (and is well liked) yet is untested and inexperienced in battle.
I guess it's about a person's interpretation of charisma. Leadership qualities in battle or how popular they are with the guys and girls.
I see your point you were trying to make. From my experience the charisma stat covers a fairly broad area.
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In the books (Song of Fire and Ice series), Stannis is an experienced and successful battle commander while Renly just looks the part (and is well liked) yet is untested and inexperienced in battle.
I guess it's about a person's interpretation of charisma. Leadership qualities in battle or how popular they are with the guys and girls.
I see your point you were trying to make. From my experience the charisma stat covers a fairly broad area.
Yeah, I was referring to book Stannis as well. Remember, the loyalty of his men, especially men like Davos, stems more from their trust in his being a man of honor who will hold and obey the laws that protect them all, no matter what. It wasn't due to being an attractive figure that he got his army, since he had a reputation for being cold and unyielding. That was more Melisandre's intervention in killing the leaders of opposing forces when actually landing on the mainland in ACoK. Not to say Stannis can't be imposing when he wants to be, but that's probably less the result of high charisma and more due to a decent number of skill ranks in intimidate plus a circumstantial bonus due to being a lord (technically a king).
Now, Stannis IS an experienced and competent soldier, one who leads well in battle. We see that later on in the North, plus his assault on King's Landing wasn't poorly done at all. Overall, though, that's more a result of a good Profession(soldier) check than anything, which benefits from Wisdom. As the next eldest brother, and the only one who cared more about tending to his kingdom rather pageantry or vengeance or wanton pursuits of the flesh and such, it fits his manner pretty well.
In the books (Song of Fire and Ice series), Stannis is an experienced and successful battle commander while Renly just looks the part (and is well liked) yet is untested and inexperienced in battle.
I guess it's about a person's interpretation of charisma. Leadership qualities in battle or how popular they are with the guys and girls.
I see your point you were trying to make. From my experience the charisma stat covers a fairly broad area.
Yeah, I was referring to book Stannis as well. Remember, the loyalty of his men, especially men like Davos, stems more from their trust in his being a man of honor who will hold and obey the laws that protect them all, no matter what. It wasn't due to being an attractive figure that he got his army, since he had a reputation for being cold and unyielding. That was more Melisandre's intervention in killing the leaders of opposing forces when actually landing on the mainland in ACoK. Not to say Stannis can't be imposing when he wants to be, but that's probably less the result of high charisma and more due to a decent number of skill ranks in intimidate plus a circumstantial bonus due to being a lord (technically a king).
Now, Stannis IS an experienced and competent soldier, one who leads well in battle. We see that later on in the North, plus his assault on King's Landing wasn't poorly done at all. Overall, though, that's more a result of a good Profession(soldier) check than anything, which benefits from Wisdom. As the next eldest brother, and the only one who cared more about tending to his kingdom rather pageantry or vengeance or wanton pursuits of the flesh and such, it fits his manner pretty well.
For the most part I agree.
The Charisma stat in the context of 'leading men' really only comes into play with the Leadership feat as charisma adds to the number of followers a character will receive.
Stannis may not be handsome or have a great bedside manner but he does have conviction. He does what he says and the common soldier (or follower) respects that, a form of personal magnetism as there isn't signs of special treatment. If you break the law you must be punished.
Even though I agree Profession (soldier) is an appropriate skill, yet it doesn't have any profound game mechanics.
Sadly, fighter background and ideals (Stannis's nobility and incorruptible lawfulness) are not a factor in a fighters ability to lead in battle. And I believe it should be.
Bonuses to the Leadership feat can only be obtained through the Cleric and War Priest classes. House ruling similar bonuses for the Fighter class seems appropriate.
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If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Leadership actually a fighter's hard-coded CLASS FEATURE during the pre 3E era?
You mean for 1E and 2E?
No, anyone could build a strong hold and attract henchmen.
Henchmen were attracted, hirelings were paid for.
but any class could do it.
If it was thieves, it was a thieves guild, clerics a church, wizards a tower…and so on.
For most characters, fighters or not, roleplaying, not class features, should describe their out of combat options.Like I had an idea the fighter might be a bit more appealing if he had some way to perform well in social encounters. As if he exudes so much confidence in his skills and abilities he has a sort of personal magnetism that attracts people to him, maybe so much so he can be a "face" character.
Maybe this is a stupid idea. Just something I thought of, I'd love anyone's opinions on whether this is a good/bad idea or the actual crunch of this feature. A scaling bonus like Bravery, perhaps?
Yeah... skills and spells obviously count for nothing! Role-playing and player's charisma should be all that matters! All in the name of making Fighters not-completely-useless when there's nothing to stab with a pointy stick...
That's completely fair to the players who invested in social skills and other useful out-of-combat abilities.
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For most characters, fighters or not, roleplaying, not class features, should describe their out of combat options.Like I had an idea the fighter might be a bit more appealing if he had some way to perform well in social encounters. As if he exudes so much confidence in his skills and abilities he has a sort of personal magnetism that attracts people to him, maybe so much so he can be a "face" character.
Maybe this is a stupid idea. Just something I thought of, I'd love anyone's opinions on whether this is a good/bad idea or the actual crunch of this feature. A scaling bonus like Bravery, perhaps?
Yeah... skills and spells obviously count for nothing! Role-playing and player's charisma should be all that matters! All in the name of making Fighters not-completely-useless when there's nothing to stab with a pointy stick...
That's completely fair to the players who invested in social skills and other useful out-of-combat abilities.
And What about the players who are socially inept but still want to play? Or those who can't act? Or those who can't think on the fly? Or those who aren't suave? Or those who have no real knowledge of negotiation or diplomacy? Should they all be required to focus their character's mental attributes soley through real life role playing?
And why don't we extend this to the physical stats? It shouldn't matter that a fighter gets a +15 to hit unless the player can swing a sword just as well - in the name of role playing, of course. Likewise, if the player can't swim, then the characters swim stat shouldn't even register in game.
And What about the players who are socially inept but still want to play? Or those who can't act? Or those who can't think on the fly? Or those who aren't suave? Or those who have no real knowledge of negotiation or diplomacy? Should they all be required to focus their character's mental attributes soley through real life role playing?
And why don't we extend this to the physical stats? It shouldn't matter that a fighter gets a +15 to hit unless the player can swing a sword just as well - in the name of role playing, of course. Likewise, if the player can't swim, then the characters swim stat shouldn't even register in game.
Hmmm... If I add a /sarcasm at the end of my post, do you think that would give you a bonus to your next Sense Motive check? ;)
One idea I saw in another thread was to add up up all the hit points and skill points gained in a level (so a fighter would have 1d10 + con mod + 2 + int mod + favored class bonus) and the player could allocate any of those to hit points or skills points as they see fit.
Hmmm... If I add a /sarcasm at the end of my post, do you think that would give you a bonus to your next Sense Motive check? ;)And What about the players who are socially inept but still want to play? Or those who can't act? Or those who can't think on the fly? Or those who aren't suave? Or those who have no real knowledge of negotiation or diplomacy? Should they all be required to focus their character's mental attributes soley through real life role playing?
And why don't we extend this to the physical stats? It shouldn't matter that a fighter gets a +15 to hit unless the player can swing a sword just as well - in the name of role playing, of course. Likewise, if the player can't swim, then the characters swim stat shouldn't even register in game.
I was actually trying to add on to your post, not argue against it. :)
I was actually trying to add on to your post, not argue against it. :)Hmmm... If I add a /sarcasm at the end of my post, do you think that would give you a bonus to your next Sense Motive check? ;)And What about the players who are socially inept but still want to play? Or those who can't act? Or those who can't think on the fly? Or those who aren't suave? Or those who have no real knowledge of negotiation or diplomacy? Should they all be required to focus their character's mental attributes soley through real life role playing?
And why don't we extend this to the physical stats? It shouldn't matter that a fighter gets a +15 to hit unless the player can swing a sword just as well - in the name of role playing, of course. Likewise, if the player can't swim, then the characters swim stat shouldn't even register in game.
Do you think I could have that bonus, then? ^^
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My fighters already do what the OP is requesting, without house rules.And they also fall short at other things that they should be doing at the same time, unlike several other classes.
I'll remember that next time I'm at a table playing.
I'm not supposed to actually succeed, regardless of what the dice say. Will that make you feel better.
A snazzy uniform. Chicks dig a guy in uniform. (Vice versa too.)
@Bookrat,
Directly related to the ancient argument about taking the power away from expert players.
In earlier additions of D&D, there wasn't any skill checks. Player knowledge and character knowledge was the same thing.
This ancient argument has now morphed into role-playing vs roll-playing.
Usually a balance of the two works best. The best role-players occasionally meta-game, out of natural habit, or to help less experienced players or when their character is an a dire situation.
Pathfinder is a (war)game. Not a theater production even though it has strong theatrical elements.
If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Leadership actually a fighter's hard-coded CLASS FEATURE during the pre 3E era?
Kind of hard coded
1e AD&D Fighters received a fighter leader and a large amount of low-level soldiers.
Clerics received low-level followers and Rogues received some low-level thieves
Druids and Monks had to fight higher level druids and monks to go up a level, but received powerful druid and monk followers.
Wizards didn't receive any followers except for a familiar.
[\
My fighters already do what the OP is requesting, without house rules.
Same.
It's amazing what's possible when you don't dump all your assets into killcrushmaim and take a SLIGHTLY more balanced view.
Don't dump Int AND Cha and you should be fine.
Fighters have a bajillion Feats that can be employed to make them pretty well rounded OUT of combat.
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Again, Fighters have NO feats that help them out of combat. They only have combat feats.
Characters have non-combat feats, but the fighter player has no more then any other, and unlike most classes, has to spend a significant amount of them on his defenses.
==Aelryinth
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Again, Fighters have NO feats that help them out of combat. They only have combat feats.
Well... Intimidating Prowess is a Combat feat, and it does help out of combat.
And I still think having bonus combat feats (mostly) counts as having bonus normal feats.
After all, earning $500 + health care is basically the same as getting $500 + the money necessary to pay for health care... Not exactly as good, of course, but it's pretty close, since you most likely want that health care anyway.
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For the most part I agree.
The Charisma stat in the context of 'leading men' really only comes into play with the Leadership feat as charisma adds to the number of followers a character will receive.
Stannis may not be handsome or have a great bedside manner but he does have conviction. He does what he says and the common soldier (or follower) respects that, a form of personal magnetism as there isn't signs of special treatment. If you break the law you must be punished.
Even though I agree Profession (soldier) is an appropriate skill, yet it doesn't have any profound game mechanics.
Sadly, fighter background and ideals (Stannis's nobility and incorruptible lawfulness) are not a factor in a fighters ability to lead in battle. And I believe it should be.
Bonuses to the Leadership feat can only be obtained through the Cleric and War Priest classes. House ruling similar bonuses for the Fighter class seems appropriate.
Actually, ranks in Profession(soldier) are hugely important for determining your commander score in mass combat, which would be happening a lot in ASoIaF. Also, the respect Stannis has from his people could easily be seen in his likely Leadership score. He's got a stronghold in his island keep (+2), great renown as brother of the king and a war hero (+2), he's known for being fair, if a little harsh (+1), and he's recently acquired a special power as Azor Ahai according to the Red Woman (+1). Add in his class levels and it's easy to reverse engineer this into a likely explanation for the loyalty of his men and people that doesn't rely on Charisma. Which, again, he's probably not bad at, but certainly not really good either.
I wouldn't necessarily tie something like conviction into any particular ability score, it's a little too ephemeral for that. You could just as easily say it's Wisdom, since that's what people use for Will saves or as a basis to determine the necessary DC to intimidate someone. It's just one of those mostly RP things, like comeliness, which are loosely attached to the character's stats at best.
Definitely agreed that fighters could benefit a lot from abilities meant to help them lead in battle. Sadly, it appears those ideas went to the cavalier instead. Oh well, Tactician isn't that fantastic a thing anyways, since teamwork feats are by and large so very 'meh'.
[\
My fighters already do what the OP is requesting, without house rules.Same.
It's amazing what's possible when you don't dump all your assets into killcrushmaim and take a SLIGHTLY more balanced view.
Don't dump Int AND Cha and you should be fine.
Fighters have a bajillion Feats that can be employed to make them pretty well rounded OUT of combat.
It sounds Good, until the Ranger can dump int to 8 and have more skill points than a 14 int fighter, plus virtual skill points, plus the skills from the animal companion, plus magic, plus better saves.
And then, when the fighter is spending his feat to out of combat stuff he is also losing the edge in combat agaisnt the ranger who now have more out of combat and more in combat too. And hope that fighter is not specializing in a feat intensive figthing style.
Fighter are "ok", but they are incomplete, and after the slayer it shoudl be clear the lack of skill points and other stuff was a bad idea.
I think the Fighter is outdated as a concept. The class name isn't descriptive of a unique class. Everyone in the party is expected to fight now.
Perhaps it would be easier to create a vanilla archetype called "Fighter" for the Ranger. Trade out naturey themed stuff for bonus combat (style?) feats. Trade out spells for weapon training or armor training, maybe, or use one of the existing archetypes.
Done, you have good saves, good skill points, and get to ignore bad prereqs.
[\
My fighters already do what the OP is requesting, without house rules.Same.
It's amazing what's possible when you don't dump all your assets into killcrushmaim and take a SLIGHTLY more balanced view.
Don't dump Int AND Cha and you should be fine.
Fighters have a bajillion Feats that can be employed to make them pretty well rounded OUT of combat.
While the wizard character is crafting rings of wizardry, the fighter character is using his cross-class Sense Motive skill to figure out if the barmaid would say yes to a date with him at the green dragon inn.
There is nothing 'fine' about the fighter's lack of out-of-combat options.
For the most part I agree.
The Charisma stat in the context of 'leading men' really only comes into play with the Leadership feat as charisma adds to the number of followers a character will receive.
Stannis may not be handsome or have a great bedside manner but he does have conviction. He does what he says and the common soldier (or follower) respects that, a form of personal magnetism as there isn't signs of special treatment. If you break the law you must be punished.
Even though I agree Profession (soldier) is an appropriate skill, yet it doesn't have any profound game mechanics.
Sadly, fighter background and ideals (Stannis's nobility and incorruptible lawfulness) are not a factor in a fighters ability to lead in battle. And I believe it should be.
Bonuses to the Leadership feat can only be obtained through the Cleric and War Priest classes. House ruling similar bonuses for the Fighter class seems appropriate.
Actually, ranks in Profession(soldier) are hugely important for determining your commander score in mass combat, which would be happening a lot in ASoIaF. Also, the respect Stannis has from his people could easily be seen in his likely Leadership score. He's got a stronghold in his island keep (+2), great renown as brother of the king and a war hero (+2), he's known for being fair, if a little harsh (+1), and he's recently acquired a special power as Azor Ahai according to the Red Woman (+1). Add in his class levels and it's easy to reverse engineer this into a likely explanation for the loyalty of his men and people that doesn't rely on Charisma. Which, again, he's probably not bad at, but certainly not really good either.
I wouldn't necessarily tie something like conviction into any particular ability score, it's a little too ephemeral for that. You could just as easily say it's Wisdom, since that's what people use for Will saves or as a basis to determine the necessary DC to intimidate someone. It's just one of those mostly RP things, like...
A fantastic reply.
Mass combat is not a normal part of a Pathfinder adventure and so it would be nice to see a skill like Profession (soldier) have more practical uses.
When I design a fighter, I typically find it hard to run a fighter character with anything less than a 14 INT.
I don't like necessarily having to put that many points into INT but it dies seem to me that a fighter should have a variety of skills. Traits usually end up going into making certain skills into class skills.
I think the Fighter is outdated as a concept. The class name isn't descriptive of a unique class. Everyone in the party is expected to fight now.Perhaps it would be easier to create a vanilla archetype called "Fighter" for the Ranger. Trade out naturey themed stuff for bonus combat (style?) feats. Trade out spells for weapon training or armor training, maybe, or use one of the existing archetypes.
Done, you have good saves, good skill points, and get to ignore bad prereqs.
Mmmm. It would be easier to have a vanilla Archetype called 'ranger' for the fighter. Because that is what the ranger is...a bunch of extra stuff bolted onto the fighter, and has been since 1E.
As for out-moded...
Everyone in the party is expected to be able to heal themselves, so we'll do away with healers.
Everyone in the party is expected to be able to cast spells, so we'll do away with spellcasters.
Everyone is expected to have skills points and be useful out of combat, so we'll do away with the rogue.
Meh.
The fighter should NEVER have been restricted to 4 skill points. There's no justification for it, especially re: the ranger, who actually gets SPELLS and THEN gets 6 skill points on top of it.
==Aelryinth
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Again, Fighters have NO feats that help them out of combat. They only have combat feats.Well... Intimidating Prowess is a Combat feat, and it does help out of combat.
And I still think having bonus combat feats (mostly) counts as having bonus normal feats.
After all, earning $500 + health care is basically the same as getting $500 + the money necessary to pay for health care... Not exactly as good, of course, but it's pretty close, since you most likely want that health care anyway.
We'll assume everyone gets $500. That's the general feats.
The Fighter gets Healthcare. Everyone else gets another $500 they can pay for Healthcare. And they get free room, board, gas money and if they choose healthcare, they get their deductibles all paid for and a Medical Savings Account. If they are spellcasters, they get four weeks paid vacation, too.Fighters, staying happy with Healthcare.
==Aelryinth
Well, uh, not quite?
The expectation is that at least one player can activate a CLW wand, and the party all chips in for it. Neither is everyone expected to cast spells. Being useful out of combat is expected though. Mundanes try to do that with skills generally, while casters do it with spells (unless they're int-based, in which case they have both).
But ye olde fighter-thief-cleric-wizard, where the fighter is the main guy in the front, with the cleric right behind him? Far from the norm now.
Given how it exists in PF, I think it'd be simpler to make it a Ranger archetype.
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As for out-moded...
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Everyone is expected to have skills points and be useful out of combat, so we'll do away with the rogue.
Wait, isn't that already in progress and nearly complete?
The fighter should NEVER have been restricted to 4 skill points. There's no justification for it, especially re: the ranger, who actually gets SPELLS and THEN gets 6 skill points on top of it.
Wait, Fighter (except for a couple of Archetypes) is restricted to 2 Skill Points per Level (before IntMod and Human bonus).