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Why do I want to play catfolk?
Wing Commander's Kilrathi
Larry Niven's Kzinti
There is nothing cute about my catfolk...
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Furry fandom?
And two claw attacks don't hurt
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Thirded.Because I haven't gotten sick of them like I have of the core races.I second this one, though it goes into a more general 'why do you not play a core race' rather than specifically to the Catfolk.
Fourthed. The lustre of a free second 1st level feat just pales when you walk through every town at 12th level and can only think "If I didn't have 20,000 GP armor on, I'd look like every other schmuck here."
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I don't.
Once you set the animal-people precedent then you have to start allowing squirrel-people, and giraffe-people, and aardvark-people, etc. While magic can be used to take on such forms they just don't exist as species in my world.
Your logical fallacy is: Slippery Slope.
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Fourthed. The lustre of a free second 1st level feat just pales when you walk through every town at 12th level and can only think "If I didn't have 20,000 GP armor on, I'd look like every other schmuck here."Thirded.Because I haven't gotten sick of them like I have of the core races.I second this one, though it goes into a more general 'why do you not play a core race' rather than specifically to the Catfolk.That's something I've never even considered as a motivation. It makes no sense to me.
By 12th level doesn't your character have more to distinguish himself by than race or gear? Heroic deeds. Great treacheries. Friends. Enemies. Something. Anything.
None of which people can look at you and notice at first glance.
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I'll just crosspost my explanation of why I like exotic races from another forum.
Since I'm in a ranting mood anyway I'll just go ahead and elucidate on my own stance on this. I've probably got a fair chance of being the resident speaker for fans of exotic races - if I had to guess, I think the only person with a larger weird:normal ratio in their vault is probably Vincent. Maybe FW or Bella as well.
You wanna know why I play exotic-race characters? Why I like them? Why the vast majority of my characters are something bizarre and unusual?
Because I am BORED of the Standard Seven.
I am BORED by almost every single campaign setting being occupied primarily by Tolkien knockoffs. I am BORED of Elves and Dwarves and Orcs and Halflings. And I am absolutely, positively, completely, utterly, totally SICK AND TIRED of HUMANS. Paizo and Pathfinder at least did something interesting and different and bizarre enough with Gnomes to make them interesting where in prior versions of the game they were utterly forgettable not-halflings not-dwarves not-elves, and made them stick out from the rest of an array of base species that can all be narrowed down to "Humans with different bodily phenotypes". Tall skinny human. Short stocky human. Big burly primitive human. Short sneaky human.
This isn't fantastical to me. The allure, the mystery, the fantasy of these races isn't fantastical. And it breaches settings. Just how different is a Greyhawk elf from an FR elf from a Golarion elf? Not a whole heck of a lot! Even less so with dwarves and orcs - you could toss one from one setting to another and likely most of their OWN KIND wouldn't even blink! Much less other races!
At least Eberron had the decency to shake things up a bit!
Nowadays, when I want to create a character for a fantasy game, I want something fantastic. In my PnP games, this is built into the system - Bella, Kamon, and the rest of my group use a homebrewed setting with a vast array of exotic, alien, unusual creatures as playable races, built into a world where such things are expected, a fantastical world where just because something doesn't look humanoid doesn't mean it can't be anything but the next combat encounter. That's less of an option here, because of the in-place exotic race system and the FR-based setting, but it's still an option that's available, one I have taken advantage of and will continue to do so in the future.
Now inevitably any time a complaint like this gets brought up, there will always be some genius who responds, "Well, what makes a character interesting should be their character and their actions and their story, not their race!". Which is true - as Trylo has, all too often, complained, there have been numerous incidents of exotic characters who had little more to them than a cardboard sign reading "I'm a monster! Rawr!" But race is one of the biggest building blocks of fantasy characters. It determines their origins, their history, their culture, their background, where they've come from and quite often where they're going, at least at the beginning of their adventure. And frankly, the cultures and backgrounds of most of the standard races BORE ME. I've never been a big fan of elves. Halflings were never all that interesting to begin with, especially in FR. 3.5 gnomes are forgettable; I don't even know what their story is on FR or if they even have one, beyond their (ugh and immensely problematic) rivalry with kobolds. Orcs are bluh. And even as much as I like the stereotypical dwarf as a construct, the idea of playing one has lost its luster. And humans are humans.
Hence why I reach for stranger realms when new character concepts start bubbling up. Cultures that haven't been dabbled in as much. Histories and backstories that are still interesting to me. It's why I can't thank FW and Vince enough that the World Serpent exists on CD - it gives me all of Planescape (a setting that as far as interesting and cool goes kicks FR to the curb and steals its teeth then sells them on the Sigil black market) to pull background ideas from.
That's pretty much in total why I get prickly when comments like Trylo's come out about "only/primarily playing certain races for the stats, not the story". Because these are the only stories I'm really interested in playing, but because they're mechanically superior to the basics, it's just assumed from the get-go that the numbers are the driving reason.
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Orthos, I have to say that is one of the better explanations of why someone wants to play something other than the core races.
While I don't necessarily agree with all the points (for example, I think there could be more to say about dwarf/halfling/etc culture), I do see the draw of something new.
Usually, when I introduce a non-standard race into our homebrew settings there is a line to play that, regardless of the stats or mechanics. There are people that have been playing for years and want something new, something different, something not like the last 24 characters they've played.
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Because I want to play a samurai that makes pizza, and since that's already two-thirds of the way there...
(A free internet to anyone who gets the reference!)
That was stronger than old cheese.
Second greatest 'gag dub' series ever!
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Part of it also has to do with where someone got into the genre in the first place. If your introduction was Tolkien or a spinoff thereof, then I can see why you'd keep coming back to the Core races, because that's the foundation of fantasy for you.
The foundation of fantasy for me is floating islands in the sky, steampunk mech-armor, airships and giant robots, shapeshifting halfbloods, sasquatches who hurl their party members as weapons, frog knights and scythe-weilding sorcerers, psychic powers, rocket-punching robots and discus-hurling androids, warriors who fuel super-powered armor with light, laser swords, mages who power their magic with metals, and so on and so forth. The core settings of various Tolkien-inspired worlds were entertaining for a short time, but the novelty quickly wore off for me.
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The foundation of fantasy for me is floating islands in the sky, steampunk mech-armor, airships and giant robots, shapeshifting halfbloods, sasquatches who hurl their party members as weapons, frog knights and scythe-weilding sorcerers, psychic powers, rocket-punching robots and discus-hurling androids, warriors who fuel super-powered armor with light, laser swords, mages who power their magic with metals, and so on and so forth. The core settings of various Tolkien-inspired worlds were entertaining for a short time, but the novelty quickly wore off for me.
This. ... well most of this ... for me. But it is exactly this reason why I am doing this project.
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I'll just crosspost my explanation of why I like exotic races from another forum.
...Since I'm in a ranting mood anyway I'll just go ahead and elucidate on my own stance on this. I've probably got a fair chance of being the resident speaker for fans of exotic races - if I had to guess, I think the only person with a larger weird:normal ratio in their vault is probably Vincent. Maybe FW or Bella as well.
You wanna know why I play exotic-race characters? Why I like them? Why the vast majority of my characters are something bizarre and unusual?
Because I am BORED of the Standard Seven.
I am BORED by almost every single campaign setting being occupied primarily by Tolkien knockoffs. I am BORED of Elves and Dwarves and Orcs and Halflings. And I am absolutely, positively, completely, utterly, totally SICK AND TIRED of HUMANS. Paizo and Pathfinder at least did something interesting and different and bizarre enough with Gnomes to make them interesting where in prior versions of the game they were utterly forgettable not-halflings not-dwarves not-elves, and made them stick out from the rest of an array of base species that can all be narrowed down to "Humans with different bodily phenotypes". Tall skinny human. Short stocky human. Big burly primitive human. Short sneaky human.
This isn't fantastical to me. The allure, the mystery, the fantasy of these races isn't fantastical. And it breaches settings. Just how different is a Greyhawk elf from an FR elf from a Golarion elf? Not a whole heck of a lot! Even less so with dwarves and orcs - you could toss one from one setting to another and likely most of their OWN KIND wouldn't even blink! Much less other races!
At least Eberron had the decency to shake things up a bit!
Nowadays, when I want to create a character for a fantasy game, I want something fantastic. In my PnP games, this is built into the system - Bella, Kamon, and the rest of
^This. I second this.
And personally- I dislike halflings. They are hobbits. Hobbits were written to be stand in narrators so we, as readers, had a way to identify with the high fantasy world. They are written to be BORING.On an unrelated note... LRGG is totally not doing a 30+ non-Tolkien, untied to other existing races, book soon... yep. No sir.
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On an unrelated note... LRGG is totally not doing a 30+ non-Tolkien, untied to other existing races, book soon... yep. No sir.
*gives enthusiastic thumbs up* nice and subtle boss, they dont suspect a thing.
That was stronger than old cheese.
Second greatest 'gag dub' series ever!
I'm normally disdainful of dubs, preferring subtitles, but what they did for that show was epic to listen to (particularly the opening and ending themes).
Hence why I referenced that instead of being a psionic cat-lady who hides her powers from the rest of her crewmates. I suspect that that would have resulted in a great deal of Righteous Indignation.
True story - when I read up on Vanara I took interest in one race, more burly and melee-favoring,who trended more baboon than typically monkeyish.
It took a remarkable amount of self restraint to keep from rolling one purely for an excuse to yell a mighty "HI-YOU-GAH!" at every grippli seen.
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@ Orthos- just wanted to toss out a word of thanks for putting that so nicely into words, and also praise for doing so in a way that is totally non-condescending.Part of it also has to do with where someone got into the genre in the first place. If your introduction was Tolkien or a spinoff thereof, then I can see why you'd keep coming back to the Core races, because that's the foundation of fantasy for you.
The foundation of fantasy for me is floating islands in the sky, steampunk mech-armor, airships and giant robots, shapeshifting halfbloods, sasquatches who hurl their party members as weapons, frog knights and scythe-weilding sorcerers, psychic powers, rocket-punching robots and discus-hurling androids, warriors who fuel super-powered armor with light, laser swords, mages who power their magic with metals, and so on and so forth. The core settings of various Tolkien-inspired worlds were entertaining for a short time, but the novelty quickly wore off for me.
Thanks, I try =)
I like anthropomorphic characters because they're both exotic and have a lot of reference art.
Another reason I can bet you can guess by my avatar.
If you took away the image and only looked at it for a stats perspective: their bonuses are good for most squishy casters: cha for cast dex for not getting hit. Climb speed is good. Playing a character that recognizes people with Scent is fun.
They're generally chaotic good, my favorite alignment. They have a good selection of racial rogue talents. Claws are also fun.
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And personally- I dislike halflings. They are hobbits. Hobbits were written to be stand in narrators so we, as readers, had a way to identify with the high fantasy world. They are written to be BORING.
That's really only true of shire hobbits. Bree hobbits are a busy, mercantile lot, and the Tooks were adventuring gentry.
My favorite campaigns have almost all been human-only. That said, if you're going to allow elfs and dwarfs and so on, then why not go for broke and allow catfolk and robots and half-farspawn?
Currently, I'm trying to shake the bored old Tolkien races a little and see if there's any life left in them, in some cases by taking giant steps backwards. In my Aviona campaign, the high elves are a lot more Poul Anderson and a lot less Legolas. Hill dwarves are Sicilian-style bandits, resenting the incursion of other races. Gnomes are like the ones from Huygen and Poortvliet, rather than tinkers or Cyndi Laupers (unsurprisingly, there aren't any gnome PCs, but they make great NPCs). The halflings are like Steven Brust's Teckla.
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That's really only true of shire hobbits. Bree hobbits are a busy, mercantile lot, and the Tooks were adventuring gentry.And personally- I dislike halflings. They are hobbits. Hobbits were written to be stand in narrators so we, as readers, had a way to identify with the high fantasy world. They are written to be BORING.
Right, so boring rubes, epic cheesemakers or foppy nobs on vacation/grande tours. This helps perceptions of halflings how?
The only halflings that mildly interested me were the cannibal jungle mob from Athas. And even then only at a stretch.
-----> Back on topic. I don't feel the feels for catfolk like I do for lizardfolk, and checking Lamontius thread barometer I'm seeing a lot of fans emulating TV or games. Primal lizardfolk from swamp or desert cave seem somehow more realizable - their tech, culture and worldview stemming from their envirionment and origins organically.
Catfolk just seem like ninjafied humans in furry suits. Where are the catfolk homelands? what are their societies like - how do they create their technology with the appendages they have? I can't get into it enough to bother. And I like cats. And CJ Cherryh is one of my all time favorite authors, just never read any of the Chanur stuff. Sue me.
So many settings have the "created by a mage/mad scientist" approach to catfolk (Thunderscape's Ferran; Jorune straight off the top of my head)...
As for dogfok, I always loved the Coalition State Dogboys from RIFTS. There's a backstory. Sure the product of mad science/evil genesplicing, but the military application and possible AWOL/MIA options were awesome...
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Why do I play Catfolk?
Because Thunder Cats.
I don't.
Once you set the animal-people precedent then you have to start allowing squirrel-people, and giraffe-people, and aardvark-people, etc. While magic can be used to take on such forms they just don't exist as species in my world.
Pathfinder already officially has apefolk (sasquatch), bearfolk (bugbear), birdfolk (dire corby, tengu), catfolk, cowfolk (minotaur), dogfolk (adlet, gnoll, pugwampi), fishfolk (ceratioidilocathah, merfolk, sahuagin, skum), frogfolk (blindheim, grippli), goatfolk (faun, satyr), horsefolk (centaur), insectfolk (thriae), lizardfolk, monkeyfolk (kech, vanara), octopusfolk (cecaelia), procupinefolk (pukwudgie), racoonfolk (tanuki), ratfolk, serpentfolk (true serpentfolk, vishkanya), and toadfolk (boggard).
I think they have their anthropomorphic bases pretty well covered already.
[pedant]Technically hyenas are part of the Feliform suborder and thus Gnolls would be filed under Catfolk not Dogfolk[/pedant]
[pedant]Technically hyenas are part of the Feliform suborder and thus Gnolls would be filed under Catfolk not Dogfolk[/pedant]
Lies! Hisssssssssssss!
[pedant]Technically hyenas are part of the Feliform suborder and thus Gnolls would be filed under Catfolk not Dogfolk[/pedant]Lies! Hisssssssssssss!
It's a stretch to call them cats, unless you want to call a mongoose a cat.
FOR THE GLORY OF THE CTARL CTARL EMPIRE!
Nice Outlaw Star reference, my man!
Because I want to play a samurai that makes pizza, and since that's already two-thirds of the way there...
(A free internet to anyone who gets the reference!)
Not a hard one.
Samurai Pizza Cats.
Because I yearn to turn my face to the dawn.
Primarily? Well, simply because I'm a cat-person. I think in my entire 34 years of life, there's only been a one or two year period where I didn't own at least two cats. And that was back in my middle school years.
But just as importantly, a lot of the fantasy fiction that really shaped my views has had one form of cat people or another: Thundercats, Transformers (catbots!), Wizardry, Final Fantasy, Quest for Glory (probably my favorite RPG series ever), Looney Tunes (yes I'm counting it!), super-hero fiction, Wing Commander (the afore mentioned Kilrathi; sci-fi but still counts), and more recently the Elder Scrolls and yes, anime and manga. If you want to see a true badass catfolk, watch Nyanta in Log Horizon - master swashbuckler, supreme chef, and a true gentleman.
And while not cat-specific, I think Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (the original Eastmann/Laird series, the cartoon, and the Archie series) as well as the afore-mentioned Looney Tunes and later Tiny Toon Adventures and Swat Cats alongside all of the above really shaped my perception of, acceptance of, and interest in anthropomorphic races.
Anyways, the point is that even though my first forays into DnD were the 1e PHB and the early Dragonlance novels, I think it's actually weirder to not have anthro races than to have them.
I don't. I want to play a Dogfolk, but they don't exist.
Not a wolf person/werewolf. Not a hyena person/gnoll. A dogfolk.
Dogs > Cats
Hyenas are cats. Well technically Hyenas are Hyaenidae, and cats are Felidae, which are both Feliformia, or the feline/cat-like family. But either way, the only thing Hyenas have in common with dogs is both being from the Carnivora order.
I'm holding out for Clan of the Hedgehog....or Koala....or Raccoon...
I'm hoping for Bats (which is supposed to be this month), Spiders, and Rabbits. C'mon, who doesn't want to play a hyperkinetic rabbity thing that gets offended at being called a lagomorph?
Your logical fallacy is: Slippery Slope.I don't.
Once you set the animal-people precedent then you have to start allowing squirrel-people, and giraffe-people, and aardvark-people, etc. While magic can be used to take on such forms they just don't exist as species in my world.
True but the only way to avoid going down that slope is to arbitrarily limit it to only "cool" animals.
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It's a stretch to call them cats, unless you want to call a mongoose a cat.
seeing as civets are pretty much the halfway point between mongoose and cat, i find i can make that stretch.
Which doesn't really make any sense.Actually it doesn't make any fun.
Go down the slope. We're waiting for you at the bottom.
They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!
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Cats and hyenas are more closely related to each other than either are too dogs, but it still really isn't accurate to refer to them as cats
With similar logic, if you are going to call hyenas cats, than you should also be referring to walruses, seals, bears, and skunks as dogs, since all of those are in Caniformia.