Clerics of Nocticula and concerning her heretical cult

[Gibo Auja]

Quote from AP#76
"A small number of heretics venerate her as well, not as a demigoddess of murder and lust but as one of outcasts, artists, and the glories of midnight. The fact that such heretical clerics are granted spells as surely as the rest of her worshipers has caused not a small amount of discontent among her faithful, which Nocticula seems to enjoy."

Now I'm not going to assume any of this would work in PFS, but do you think a cleric of Nocticula in said mentioned heretical cult could be CG?
All though nothing is too clear it seems to imply she may not be considered a CE creature by those worshipers but a CN one.

In a home game would it be possible and not too lore breaking for me to play a CG cleric (or Warpriest) of Nocticula.

[Vritra]

Talk with your GM.

It greatly depends on your GM's interpretation of that heresy, and whether it allows CG clerics.

[Bob Bob Bob]

Nocticula is CE, right? So because of "Alignment: A cleric's alignment must be within one step of her deity's, along either the law/chaos axis or the good/evil axis." (which isn't a PFS rule, it's in the cleric class) that makes the heretics CN, probably. No CG Clerics, and Warpriests have the same "Alignment: A warpriest's alignment must be within one step of his deity's, along either the law/chaos axis or the good/evil axis." so no go there either. Same for Inquisitors. As always, DM fiat can change any of this.

[BobtheSamurai]

Wrath of the Righteous:

Nocticula becomes a CN goddess by the end of this AP

[Arachnofiend]

I'd probably rule that the heretics would be chaotic neutral without more information. If someone would be willing to unveil more of the information given under Bob's spoiler it would be helpful/interesting to me personally.

[MMCJawa]

BobtheSamurai wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

spoiler:

I don't remember that happens, but the AP does assume that Arlee Vorlesh (sp?) become a new demon lord.

There are hints in the AP for something like this, but James Jacobs has said this in itself would be a event worth its own AP

[MGX]

What exactly does the "glories of midnight" mean?

[Garbage-Tier Waifu]

MGX wrote:

What exactly does the "glories of midnight" mean?

You hang out in parks and liminal spaces after midnight, and wear a lot of black. Also, stiletto thigh-highs. It's what Nocticula would want you to wear. She can't on account of magma hooves :(

[Rysky]

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:

MGX wrote:

What exactly does the "glories of midnight" mean?

You hang out in parks and liminal spaces after midnight, and wear a lot of black. Also, stiletto thigh-highs. It's what Nocticula would want you to wear. She can't on account of magma hooves :(

Her hooves have heels built in :3

[Garbage-Tier Waifu]

Oh wow, you're totally right! I totally didn't notice that. Damn...now that's style.

[Rysky]

*nods*

[Bard-Sader]

Skip the headaches. Be an oracle of Nocticula and have no alignment restrictions!

Then join the Mendevien crusade!

[MGX]

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:

Oh wow, you're totally right! I totally didn't notice that. Damn...now that's style.

Combat Stilettos.

[Rysky]

MGX wrote:

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:

Oh wow, you're totally right! I totally didn't notice that. Damn...now that's style.

Combat Stilettos.

We have stats fro those in Adventurer's Armory 2 now :3

[PossibleCabbage]

Clearly someone at Paizo is teasing a face turn for Nocticula, but this is not a thing that has *for sure* happened.

Spoiler:

From the Beyond the Campaign for WotR:
"But in the case of Nocticula, a different option might exist, for among her faithful are certain heretics who believe she seeks ascension to divinity as the goddess of outcasts, artists, and the glories of midnight. What if these heretics are correct? What if Nocticula's aid to the PCs during this campaign was merely the first of her overtures toward a rise from evil?"

Spoiler:

I feel like "Redemption of a Demon Lord" is not the sort of thing you just do in a sidebar, in fact it would be a good plot for a WotR sequel. That being said, the PCs at the end of that AP are about as powerful as any PCs could possibly be, so it's conceivable that's a good way to end their story, but I don't know if you want to do it offscreen.
There's a campaign there, I think.

[Meraki]

There's also at least one NPC who believes that Nocticula is attempting to redeem herself,

Spoiler:

Ayavah from Shattered Star (she also gets a full write-up in A Song of Silver.

I feel like there was another prominent one, but it's escaping me at the moment.

[PossibleCabbage]

A thought-

The people who worship Nocticula as the patron of murder and lust are discontented per her writeup in the back matter of WotR. But it wouldn't be remotely unusual for a CE deity to grant spells to CN worshippers would it? It's also not unusual for deities to grant spells to worshippers with wildly different interpretations about that deity. I mean Norgorber is worshipped in different aspects by politicians, thieves, alchemists, and murderous psychopaths, and nobody in any of those groups seems to mind that Norgorber grants sanction to the other three.

So what would actually make discontented followers of Nocticula in the CE "Murder and Lust" aspect? I can come up with:

- They're CE, and never learned to share.
- Nocticula started granting spells to N or CG followers.
- Nocticula stopped granting spells to NE followers.

Since if it's just "grants spells to CN people who have a different interpretation" that's nothing to really become discontented about. All of the CE people into whatever CE people are into will still be welcome in the fold of a CN goddess, after all.

[Bard-Sader]

Rysky wrote:

MGX wrote:

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:

Oh wow, you're totally right! I totally didn't notice that. Damn...now that's style.

Combat Stilettos.

We have stats fro those in Adventurer's Armory 2 now :3

Wait are you being serious? 0_o

[Samasboy1]

Bard-Sader wrote:

Rysky wrote:

MGX wrote:

Garbage-Tier Waifu wrote:

Oh wow, you're totally right! I totally didn't notice that. Damn...now that's style.

Combat Stilettos.

We have stats fro those in Adventurer's Armory 2 now :3

Wait are you being serious? 0_o

Yes, totally serious.

Personally, I really, really hope they never actually make Nocticula a CN goddess. But that's me.

[PossibleCabbage]

Samasboy1 wrote:

Personally, I really, really hope they never actually make Nocticula a CN goddess. But that's me.

Well, partly one of the reason to do this is the sheer lack of CN deities compared to everything else. Per the Archives of Nethys there are 18 CN deities, as opposed to 21 LN, 29 CG, 33 LG, 34 NG, 52 NE, 66 LE, and 79 CE deities. The only alignment less represented is TN with 17 representatives.

So there's an argument from sheer numbers to be made for at least one CE deity to redeem themselves to CN (and maybe someone else moves north to Abaddon too), and Nocticula is the one they've already sown the seeds for. Plus, it will probably make a better redemption story than Ragathiel's, and redemption stories are good.

[Bard-Sader]

Why would it be a better redemption story than Ragathiel? What is Ragathiel's story anyways? I just know he's the son of one of the archdules of Hell.

[Jurassic Pratt]

Ragathiel was never evil as far as I know, he just didn't give in to his heritage. So not much of a redemption story to tell.

[Samasboy1]

PossibleCabbage wrote:

Per the Archives of Nethys there are 18 CN deities, as opposed to 21 LN, 29 CG, 33 LG, 34 NG, 52 NE, 66 LE, and 79 CE deities. The only alignment less represented is TN with 17 representatives.

To me, the better option to improve the balance would be to stat more of the demigods of the lesser represented alignments.

Protean Lords, Primal Inevitables, Psychopomp Ushers, etc.

The cause of the imbalance is a focus so far on certain types of outsiders, and can be corrected by providing information about the most powerful of other types.

Keep Nocticula CE.

[magnuskn]

I'm a sucker for redemption stories, so count me in as wanting Nocticula as CN.

Also because she was basically Best Girl in Wrath of the Righteous. ^^

[Bard-Sader]

Best girl? What? No one got married or anything right?

[magnuskn]

Let's just say that I found her to be the most interesting character presented in the entire AP.

[Bard-Sader]

magnuskn wrote:

Let's just say that I found her to be the most interesting character presented in the entire AP.

Err...does that say more about Nocticula being interesting, or other NPCs being flat?

[Illeist]

And let's not forget the secret message for WotR:"Ayavah was right all along."

[Dracovar]

magnuskn wrote:

Let's just say that I found her to be the most interesting character presented in the entire AP.

Agreed.

Thought she had some godhood potential back in 2014...