Dark sun? We must be thinking of different things, because at has is the least technological setting published. Athas is so metal poor that while they aren't Stone Age it might as well be.
Mostly 'cause Dark Sun is set After The End, so it's within reason that the character could dig up some ancient tech.
I'm finding it hard to resist trying to convert warhammer 40k stuff after the tech guide.
My only complaint is that there isn't more of it.
In general I love most of the stuff. The weapons are cool, the artifacts are cool, the equipment is cool.
I also have to echo that I love that the items tend to have more flavorful effects rather than just giving buffs, I'd like to see Paizo think about taking a similar approach when designing more mainstream Pathfinder items in the futue.
I like what they have made so far, but I want more. Like mechs and starships.Mechs? what, Annihilator Robots not enough for you? Starships? You've got one whose pieces are the size of cities... what more could you ask for?
Keep an eye peeled/sensors sweeping on Rite Publishing for some upcoming mech rules.
Dark sun? We must be thinking of different things, because at has is the least technological setting published. Athas is so metal poor that while they aren't Stone Age it might as well be.Mostly 'cause Dark Sun is set After The End, so it's within reason that the character could dig up some ancient tech.
Exactly. Dark Sun was pretty high-tech before it became the wasteland we all know and love. It was just bio-tech instead of tech based on metal and wires.
Not to rain on your parade, but wouldn't they be non-powered ones and thus relatively useless?As a munchkin I find this to be very relevant to my interests. Thank you for that.It's great and honestly I enjoy it so much more than the boring magic weapons that Paizo puts in a lot of it's books. Just don't tell the munchkin's about shadow weapon spell as now it can summon Monoblade's and Monowhip'sHahaha, that's a funny thought. :PI don't see why.
"Drawing upon the Plane of Shadow, you shape a quasi-real masterwork melee weapon of a type you are proficient with. You may use this weapon to make attacks as if it were a real weapon, dealing normal damage for a weapon of its type."
You make attacks with it as if it was real, dealing normal damage for a weapon of its type. The issue is proficiency with the weapon.
they can do damage while off usually, and whether or not it is real or not holds no barring. you do not however also create ammo with it, and thus it cannot be activated, however, there is nothing limiting you from putting batteries in mechanically to your shadow weapon.
you do not however also create ammo with itNo, you don't. You create a functional shadow copy of a technological weapon. Charges are not ammunition - I see no RAW that says when created the item will have no charges as opposed to it coming into existence with a set of charges that deplete over time as per normal. If it did not, it would not be able to do damage as a real version of what it's copying.
I see no RAW reason it does have charges? a technological weapon only does normal damage of it's type when on, thus the shadow weapon would have to be turned on, same if you used shadow weapon to create a frost weapon, you then have to spend a standard action to turn frost on.
at best you use the timeworn rules to roll for random charges when it is first used.
basically the spell makes a weapon but I do not see the part where it also makes charges for it.
Just cast the recharge spell directly on the shadow weapon and call it a day. :D
Dark sun? We must be thinking of different things, because at has is the least technological setting published. Athas is so metal poor that while they aren't Stone Age it might as well be.Mostly 'cause Dark Sun is set After The End, so it's within reason that the character could dig up some ancient tech.
It's still After The End of standard D&D/Fantasy world, isn't it? Or did they change that when I wasn't looking?
a technological weapon only does normal damage of it's type when on, thus the shadow weapon would have to be turned on, same if you used shadow weapon to create a frost weapon, you then have to spend a standard action to turn frost on.Correct. You cast the spell, you get the weapon. You activate it, it works per normal. If it did not then it would be violating the text of the spell, because the copy has to be capable of doing the damage of a normal weapon of its type when summoned. The copy is not timeworn unless you're creating it that way, so those rules don't apply.
Depending on how you interpret this part of the Tech Guide, it could be moot. You might not be able to do it at all.
technology from the future (or even the present-day real world) in a fantasy setting should be handled in a manner similar to magic items elsewhere in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.
If not, then I would have to ask how it also plays with Fabricate, since it seems if one works, the other should as well, in theory.
And that might be for the best, since using Shadow Weapon to get a monowhip, for instance, you're effectively getting the option of a 70,000g weapon for free for minutes at a time for the cost of a standard action and a 1st level spell slot.
a technological weapon only does normal damage of it's type when on, thus the shadow weapon would have to be turned on, same if you used shadow weapon to create a frost weapon, you then have to spend a standard action to turn frost on.Correct. You cast the spell, you get the weapon. You activate it, it works per normal. If it did not then it would be violating the text of the spell, because the copy has to be capable of doing the damage of a normal weapon of its type when summoned. The copy is not timeworn unless you're creating it that way, so those rules don't apply.
no because a normal damage of that weapon off is an improvised weapon, still easily usable just cannot turn it on. If this was the case shadow weapon would have to still work regardless of how many charges it had.
and only newly crafted weapons are not timeworn, shadow weapons are not crafted. actually I can't seem to find any indication that items created start with charges except the rocket launcher.
like i said, the normal damage for an unpowered melee tech weapon still exists, you just won't like it as much.
no because a normal damage of that weapon off is an improvised weapon, still easily usable just cannot turn it on.This is not stated anywhere in the rules.
Additionally, it is not "easily usable" because the Shadow Weapon spell does not create improvised weapons. More specifically, it is outright incapable of doing so. I quote:
"Because such objects are not designed for this use, any creature that uses an improvised weapon in combat is considered to be nonproficient with it and takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with that object."
If you are not proficient with the weapon (which is the case for improvised weapons), then you cannot summon it with Shadow Weapon in the first place:
"Drawing upon the Plane of Shadow, you shape a quasi-real masterwork melee weapon of a type you are proficient with."
No weapon you summon with Shadow Weapon can be improvised, because the spell does not allow you to do so. It must be something you will be proficient with, and makes sure to point this out in the first sentence of the spell. A forcibly unpowered weapon would be improvised only, which is not possible.
still no weapon you create will have charges it is simply incapable of doing so. in essence the technological weapon's damage is based on whether or not it is on, and yes improvised weapons are anything that isn't at that point usable as a standard weapon.
since you do not have charges the normal damage for that weapon is not the damage of it's "on" counter part, you must charge it manually and turn it on, a technological weapon doing "on" damage with no charges is not normal damage of it's type.
for instance the shadow weapon can be frost, thus it's normal damage while on requires a standard to turn it on and do the additional 1d6 damage, it's off versions normal damage does not include that damage.
in essence, you create the weapon that you are proficient in, which just so happens to also have no charges, therefore it is off and does not work normally and must be USED as a improvised weapon. there is nothing stopping you from using the shadow weapon in a way that you are not proficient with.
so basically, if you were proficient with thieve's tools as a weapon, nothing is stopping you from using it as masterwork Thieve's tools for lock picking.
I enjoy the tech items.
So you are saying any sort of bow or other ranged weapon cannot be summoned as per Shadow Spell as without arrows, which aren't summoned with it, all ammo based weapons can only be used as improvised weapons and as such can't be summoned because they are improvised?
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Someone mash the FAQ button and go back to talking about cool tech items, IMO.
It's still After The End of standard D&D/Fantasy world, isn't it? Or did they change that when I wasn't looking?Dark sun? We must be thinking of different things, because at has is the least technological setting published. Athas is so metal poor that while they aren't Stone Age it might as well be.Mostly 'cause Dark Sun is set After The End, so it's within reason that the character could dig up some ancient tech.
Alleran explained the basics of the history. It wasn't ever a standard D&D fantasy world. The halflings and kreen were the original dominant races, and psionics was the main source of power instead of magic, which was unnatural and damaged the world. And the halflings were masters of symbiotic bio-tech, including aircraft. I think there was even something resembling lasers.
This was all 2e too. I think the bio-tech stuff came out around '95 or so, after Dark Sun's revised edition (ie their own 2e).
a technological weapon only does normal damage of it's type when on, thus the shadow weapon would have to be turned on, same if you used shadow weapon to create a frost weapon, you then have to spend a standard action to turn frost on.Correct. You cast the spell, you get the weapon. You activate it, it works per normal. If it did not then it would be violating the text of the spell, because the copy has to be capable of doing the damage of a normal weapon of its type when summoned. The copy is not timeworn unless you're creating it that way, so those rules don't apply.Depending on how you interpret this part of the Tech Guide, it could be moot. You might not be able to do it at all.
technology from the future (or even the present-day real world) in a fantasy setting should be handled in a manner similar to magic items elsewhere in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.If not, then I would have to ask how it also plays with Fabricate, since it seems if one works, the other should as well, in theory.
And that might be for the best, since using Shadow Weapon to get a monowhip, for instance, you're effectively getting the option of a 70,000g weapon for free for minutes at a time for the cost of a standard action and a 1st level spell slot.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/technological-equipment
I love them. They are like magic items, but not boring. No +2 to dex belt, f~$&ing metal muscles. No +2 swords, death rays and gravity guns!
They do not fit into what I want to see in a fantasy setting. Because of that I do not read their entries.
Steampunk isn't just about steam, it's about how far you can string things along with pre-electric technology. But it's primary theme which seems to have been lost in the shuffle was about building an information network with Babbage style computers and punch cards (which by the way predated computers by decades, being used to program textile machines. a couple of which are on display in the Paterson Museum.)because steampunk is based on steam, you know Hot Thermal energy being used. I don't imagine refrigeration is under steampunk but is under dieselpunk.You can't imagine freeze rays as steampunk? Why?
I kinda get the vortex gun, but that is incredibly advanced technology. It costs 182,000gp, so its not something that you would reasonably get before 16-17th level.
still doesn't fly as something capable of making something colder. I can take making steam engines significantly more powerful to build things or using mechanical computers, but I cannot have something just explained away as it works because it does.
Steampunk just doesn't have technology like refrigeration in it's purview for me.
still no weapon you create will have charges it is simply incapable of doing so.There is nothing in the rules that says this. Please don't make unfounded assertions.
there is even less to suggest the weapon CAN be made with charges. Normal is a relative term, and I think a weapon does normal damage as an unpowered variant of it's weapon.
your line on frost doesn't actually seem to understand what I am saying. when you create a shadow weapon with frost, the frost effect must be activated, or it does normal damage for a weapon without the frost effect. my point being that you need to turn it on, just like techweapons but techweapons need charges, which they don't have.
there is even less to suggest the weapon CAN be made with charges. Normal is a relative term, and I think a weapon does normal damage as an unpowered variant of it's weapon.still no weapon you create will have charges it is simply incapable of doing so.There is nothing in the rules that says this. Please don't make unfounded assertions.
Based on what I linked above, unless you can use the spell to make a Sun Blade(insert whatever magic weapon you want here), I think you're out of luck entirely.