This is purely for RP purposes, but it's something I'm pretty determined to do. However, everything I've read suggests that no-one has even considered such a thing before.
And I certainly have no idea where to start.
So, basically what I'm asking is whether or not anyone knows how to make this work? I still want to go melee, and be mounted a good deal(the campaign should allow for such) but I want to be using a Glaive instead.
Any thoughts? Thanks in advance. =3
See, I know I could just play it like a reach fighter, but I want to make use of Mounted Combat whenever I can. However, from what I understand, using something other than a lance for that is very... sub-par. I'm just curious if anyone has any ideas on how to beef it up abit.
If you don't go lance, can I recommend you go Roughrider Fighter? You can make up for the damage thanks to having better full attacks on movement and Weapon Training which allows for some versatility.
Mounted is definitely still key, otherwise there would be no issue. As for switching classes, I'm pretty set on Cavalier, although I might consider it.
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I played a Cavalier through PFS to retirement who didn't have mounted combat and only used a lance as a flagpole. I figured things like mounted combat and spirited charge would only work while mounted, but things like power attack and weapon focus work whether you're mounted OR on foot.
I smashed for 11 levels with a heavy flail and it worked out great, both on and off my horse.
These are all fair points, and I feel abit silly for thinking I wouldn't be doing enough damage.
See, I play with my step-brothers, and while 1 of them really doesn't optimize much, the other does, and I didn't want to lag behind him too much... He's playing a Magus, so I figured I'd already be at a disadvantage there.
However, in the grand scheme of things I'll still be effective, and that's all that matters, right? XD Thanks for the help everyone. ^_^
I'm playing a Huntsman Cavalier at the moment in Serpent's Skull. I haven't even seen a horse. Just me, my Dogs and a trusty Keen Rapier at the front line of battle.
There's the Horselord, if you'd rather use slashing weapons while mounted.
@OP, have you checked out TarkXT's cavalier guide? A very well-written piece of work, that does not assume you're permanently bolted into the saddle with lance in hand.
Ghorrin Redblade
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When I played a cavalier with a lance, I did a lot of damage on charges... but the rest of the time I was basically a mediocre reach build. The cav's challenge discourages you from hopping from one enemy to the another repeatedly, and you can't charge an enemy once you're already adjacent to it. Plus, sometimes you just can't bring your horse along.
A glaive cavalier would be a perfectly solid choice-- he wouldn't get super charges, but he'd be a bit better in all other circumstances, so it'd even out. Plus, this opens up a completely different strategy.
1. With a glaive and a spiked gauntlet, you threaten out to 10 feet.
2. Your horse is Large, and thus threatens a pretty wide radius itself even without reach.
3. You can grant teamwork abilities to your allies, many of which improve flanking bonuses.
4. Your horse counts as your ally.
Do you see where I'm going with this?
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When I played a cavalier with a lance, I did a lot of damage on charges... but the rest of the time I was basically a mediocre reach build. The cav's challenge discourages you from hopping from one enemy to the another repeatedly, and you can't charge an enemy once you're already adjacent to it. Plus, sometimes you just can't bring your horse along.
A glaive cavalier would be a perfectly solid choice-- he wouldn't get super charges, but he'd be a bit better in all other circumstances, so it'd even out. Plus, this opens up a completely different strategy.
1. With a glaive and a spiked gauntlet, you threaten out to 10 feet.
2. Your horse is Large, and thus threatens a pretty wide radius itself even without reach.
3. You can grant teamwork abilities to your allies, many of which improve flanking bonuses.
4. Your horse counts as your ally.Do you see where I'm going with this?
Gotta correct you:
1) You cannot threaten with a Glaive and Spiked Gauntlet at the same time. You can with a Glaive and Armor Spikes.2) A Horse only has a 5ft. reach.
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Ya, what you're looking for is a riding mount with reach. There are not many, but it's possible if you work it. E.g. A Cavalier can acquire a boon that gets an Axe Beak, which has some semi-exotic build options. It's an excellent three adventure set, too.
I've played across the table from a Cavalier who uses a naginata. The player understands it does less damage than a lance, and chose it for flavor. He finds challenge in making the best of flavorful, non-optimal choices. His charges are still devastating. He and his triceratops are still plenty effective.
If you want to do as well as you would with a lance, why not take the lance and reflavor it as a glaive?
If you want to do as well as you would with a lance, why not take the lance and reflavor it as a glaive?Because a lance is not a glaive, any more than you can "flavor" a tiger to be a Yorkshire terrier.
terrible example, since you CAN fluff a tiger to be a yorkshire terrier (which i may steal because it's hilarious, btw).
you can fluff anything as anything--that's the point of it being fluff.
i could easily say the greatsword my barbarian wields is an heirloom dagger carved from the thighbone of a yak and he's just putting a lot of muscle into the attack.
So, if I'm reading this correctly, you don't want to use a lance, but you want to be as good as if you did?
Aside from reflavoring, that's just not an option.
Some choices just are better than others. When it comes to mounted combat, lance just is the best option.
You could take Quick Draw and focus on using both. Use a lance when you're mounted, use a glaive when you're not. Unless you drop feats into the weapon focus chain or improved crit or anything else 1-weapon-only, it's not a horrible idea.
So, if I'm reading this correctly, you don't want to use a lance, but you want to be as good as if you did?
Aside from reflavoring, that's just not an option.
Some choices just are better than others. When it comes to mounted combat, lance just is the best option.
You could take Quick Draw and focus on using both. Use a lance when you're mounted, use a glaive when you're not. Unless you drop feats into the weapon focus chain or improved crit or anything else 1-weapon-only, it's not a horrible idea.
It's too expensive to be enchanting another weapon on top of your Primary Melee, Backup Melee (e.g. Armor Spikes), and Composite Longbow.
Edit: Characters with animal companions are even more strapped for cash, since you need to invest in at least some gear for your companion too.
If you are going to take advantage of mounted combat, there is significant feat investment to make the best out of it. Additionally, not using a lance means you will do less damage early game and much less damage late game (in fact, late game Lance & Spirited Charge is the ONLY thing that keeps your charges relevant when it comes to damage as Full Attack classes will start to quickly outclass you)
Have you considered archery? I believe there are one or two bows that specifically state they can be used while mounted despite the usual prohibitions. Of course, archery and mounted combat are both feat-hungry, so it might take a long while to shine.
I still think that a Dex-based dual wielder Roughrider is the best choice.
- High Dex means high Ride. With Indomitable Mount and Mounted Combat, that means your mount will always pass saves and it will be nigh-unhittable.
- Since you have high Dex and pounce (thanks to Ride Them Down) you can full attack on charges without penalties throughout your movement (awesome), and perhaps have your mount replace your attacks with a Bull Rush move for bodyguarding.
- Roughrider features are weapon-agnostic as long as you are near your mount, so you can combine it with switch-hitting through thrown weapons or bows, giving you increased versatility.
- The defensive measures of the Roughrider shouldn't be understated, since you can have your mount wear heavy armor without burdening itself. If you find high level armor with high max Dex allowance, then you can use it without incurring penalties to Ride! On a pinch, you can wear the heaviest armor you want and still not burden your mount or incur Ride penalties.
- RIDE A WOLF AND DUAL WIELD SABRETOOTH SABERS (WITH SLASHING GRACE OF COURSE)
The bad side of this is that you need to wait until level 5 to get your mount (through Animal Ally), but you can purchase one for the first levels of play.
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Gawwwwd, a glaive is not a good mounted weapon. Urrrrgh.
Go a naginata. They were used a lot by mounted samurai.
I still think that a Dex-based dual wielder Roughrider is the best choice.
- High Dex means high Ride. With Indomitable Mount and Mounted Combat, that means your mount will always pass saves and it will be nigh-unhittable.
- Since you have high Dex and pounce (thanks to Ride Them Down) you can full attack on charges without penalties throughout your movement (awesome), and perhaps have your mount replace your attacks with a Bull Rush move for bodyguarding.
- Roughrider features are weapon-agnostic as long as you are near your mount, so you can combine it with switch-hitting through thrown weapons or bows, giving you increased versatility.
- The defensive measures of the Roughrider shouldn't be understated, since you can have your mount wear heavy armor without burdening itself. If you find high level armor with high max Dex allowance, then you can use it without incurring penalties to Ride! On a pinch, you can wear the heaviest armor you want and still not burden your mount or incur Ride penalties.
- RIDE A WOLF AND DUAL WIELD SABRETOOTH SABERS (WITH SLASHING GRACE OF COURSE)
The bad side of this is that you need to wait until level 5 to get your mount (through Animal Ally), but you can purchase one for the first levels of play.
You can't dual wield and use slashing grace.
Also, Ride Em Down comes in at level 15. That's... like 90% of your play time without that feature. I usually never look at class features post level 12. The reality is in most games you won't reach that point (and actual never in PFS).
Also you don't gain an actual mount from this archetype.
That being said, Leap From the Saddle is pretty cool.
You get a mount through the Animal Ally feat and I don't see anywhere in Slashing Grace saying it doesn't work with off-hand weapons. As far as I know the Sabretooth thing works.
I admit it's awkward to build this character but rewarding when you get your power spikes. You rely on Leap From the Saddle until 15, but then again you don't want to dual wield until level 10 or so.
Hmm, yeah, I guess "when you wield this weapon one-handed" doesn't necessarily exclude two weapon fighting. When I first read it it certainly read that way to me, but after reading it again my initial interpretation seems wrong.
C'est la vie.
Actually, I'm still not sure Sawtooth Sabres work with Slashing Grace. How are you getting them to Weapon Finessed without a dip into Swashbuckler? They don't have the Finesse trait, they are one handed, and are only countred as light for TWFing only. I don't think that means you can apply Weapon Finesse to them while TWFing.
Samurai (Sword Saint)
Actually, I'm still not sure Sawtooth Sabres work with Slashing Grace. How are you getting them to Weapon Finessed without a dip into Swashbuckler? They don't have the Finesse trait, they are one handed, and are only countred as light for TWFing only. I don't think that means you can apply Weapon Finesse to them while TWFing.
I have no clue but you are not hurt at all by a Swash dip, considering free Finesse. Also, going Cha opens up the Fey Bloodline through Eldritch Heritage, another option...
Or, of course, there's always Slashing Grace using an Aldori Dueling Sword or going Agile Elven Curved Blade.
elven curved blade is already a finesseable weapon
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When I played a cavalier with a lance, I did a lot of damage on charges... but the rest of the time I was basically a mediocre reach build. The cav's challenge discourages you from hopping from one enemy to the another repeatedly, and you can't charge an enemy once you're already adjacent to it. Plus, sometimes you just can't bring your horse along.
A glaive cavalier would be a perfectly solid choice-- he wouldn't get super charges, but he'd be a bit better in all other circumstances, so it'd even out. Plus, this opens up a completely different strategy.
1. With a glaive and a spiked gauntlet, you threaten out to 10 feet.
2. Your horse is Large, and thus threatens a pretty wide radius itself even without reach.
3. You can grant teamwork abilities to your allies, many of which improve flanking bonuses.
4. Your horse counts as your ally.Do you see where I'm going with this?
Gotta correct you:
1) You cannot threaten with a Glaive and Spiked Gauntlet at the same time. You can with a Glaive and Armor Spikes.
2) A Horse only has a 5ft. reach.
Gotta correct you right back:
I said the horse threatens a wide area even without reach. I'm aware it only threatens adjacent enemies, but it is Large, and therefore its threat radius is 20 feet wide-- its own 10-ft body plus 5 feet on either side. That's only 5 feet shy of your own radius with a reach weapon.