Most obnoxious PFS legal rules?


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5/5 5/55/5

I do have to say the 120 HP fireball or Fire arc thrown out at level 8 or 9 is really obnoxious. The dual blooded draconic/orc combined with the legality of stacking the 2 metamagic traits makes for a really broken build.


To defend my Multiclassing statement, it is a personal experiance.
It is annoying "Ok, so you are a Wizard/Monk/Ranger....Fun. What is your characters Theme....oh he doesnt have a story or really personality"

1/5

BartonOliver wrote:
Muser wrote:


2. Point Blank Master + Clustered Shots + weapon blanches. There are archers out there carrying parties through entire scenarios. The archer shoots, the party takes out their sun screen and discusses Andoren social policy. They aren't really needed.
The sad thing is there is a better version of Cluster Shot out now in the ACG, it's for unarmed strikes, but I'm not sure that a Zen Archer couldn't apply it to his bow by using his unarmed damage. Also it definitely works for brawlers and monks.

Presently they can. It's stupid and will eventually be errataed but currently you can pummeling zen archer for the OH GOD WHY! damage.

4/5

Undone wrote:
BartonOliver wrote:
Muser wrote:


2. Point Blank Master + Clustered Shots + weapon blanches. There are archers out there carrying parties through entire scenarios. The archer shoots, the party takes out their sun screen and discusses Andoren social policy. They aren't really needed.
The sad thing is there is a better version of Cluster Shot out now in the ACG, it's for unarmed strikes, but I'm not sure that a Zen Archer couldn't apply it to his bow by using his unarmed damage. Also it definitely works for brawlers and monks.
Presently they can. It's stupid and will eventually be errataed but currently you can pummeling zen archer for the OH GOD WHY! damage.

Unless you put a boxing glove on your arrow most people don't call it a punch.

Grand Lodge 4/5 * Venture-Agent, Texas—Houston

David_Bross wrote:
Undone wrote:
BartonOliver wrote:
Muser wrote:


2. Point Blank Master + Clustered Shots + weapon blanches. There are archers out there carrying parties through entire scenarios. The archer shoots, the party takes out their sun screen and discusses Andoren social policy. They aren't really needed.
The sad thing is there is a better version of Cluster Shot out now in the ACG, it's for unarmed strikes, but I'm not sure that a Zen Archer couldn't apply it to his bow by using his unarmed damage. Also it definitely works for brawlers and monks.
Presently they can. It's stupid and will eventually be errataed but currently you can pummeling zen archer for the OH GOD WHY! damage.
Unless you put a boxing glove on your arrow most people don't call it a punch.

Please leave that debate in its own thread.

Anyway, most obnoxious rule: Underwater combat. You can swim at 1/4 of your speed as a move action with a successful swim check. I do not swim nearly that slow in real life.


Under A Bleeding Sun wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Dazing channel and slumber hex are up there.

Agreed.

To many single target BBEG's where a slumber hex just ends it.

Dazing Spell. Sorcerer with dazing spell shows up at table, expect meaningless fights.

The combat in PFS is too easy for players using the best tactics because a wide variety of skill levels must be accommodated. I'm not sure there's any way to fix this because the average player hates character death.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

2 people marked this as a favorite.
nosig wrote:
Take 10?
Kyle Baird wrote:
Correction, Take 10 shirts
nosig wrote:

LOL!

I've started giving them away now.

I ordered 10 (wink-wink) in different sizes and colors - and have given 5 away so far... so if you see someone in one, it might not be me! LOL!

(I think I'll have to take another 10 - so I'll have more to give away as gifts!)

Yeah, cause intentionally wearing a shirt that essentially says, "You're an idiot, I know the rules better than you" is not obnoxious at all *sigh*

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

7 people marked this as a favorite.

The most obnoxious thing, though not PFS specific, is when players tell others how to play their character, and/or tell them, mid-turn, not to take certain actions because it will interfere with what they have planned for their next (and subsequent) turns.
"Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane."
"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."
"No, don't use that weapon, the other one is statistically more effective."
"You should delay, because I'm going to do X on my turn"

LET PEOPLE PLAY THEIR OWN CHARACTER FOR PETE'S SAKE!

5/5 5/55/55/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Bob Jonquet wrote:

The most obnoxious thing, though not PFS specific, is when players tell others how to play their character, and/or tell them, mid-turn, not to take certain actions because it will interfere with what they have planned for their next (and subsequent) turns.

"Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane."
"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."
"No, don't use that weapon, the other one is statistically more effective."
"You should delay, because I'm going to do X on my turn"

LET PEOPLE PLAY THEIR OWN CHARACTER FOR PETE'S SAKE!

There is in fact a time to do this. Some people spend 15 minutes trying to figure out what to do with a deeper darkness when its already been announced there's a daylight spell coming. Sometimes there is no reason for someone to wind up standing in the charge lane or shooting gallery. There's nothing wrong with (politely) asking someone to scoot over a square.

I know i don't always remember when the little lump of kinda green plastic on the table represents someone putting a sharp pointy object behind 100 pounds of draw weight, but my character would certainly notice that's not a good place to stand.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Bob Jonquet wrote:

The most obnoxious thing, though not PFS specific, is when players tell others how to play their character, and/or tell them, mid-turn, not to take certain actions because it will interfere with what they have planned for their next (and subsequent) turns.

"Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane."
"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."
"No, don't use that weapon, the other one is statistically more effective."
"You should delay, because I'm going to do X on my turn"

LET PEOPLE PLAY THEIR OWN CHARACTER FOR PETE'S SAKE!

I don't see the problem... you don't want players working as a team or teaching others how to use sound tactics and positioning?

Silver Crusade 5/5

El_Jefe wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:

The most obnoxious thing, though not PFS specific, is when players tell others how to play their character, and/or tell them, mid-turn, not to take certain actions because it will interfere with what they have planned for their next (and subsequent) turns.

"Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane."
"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."
"No, don't use that weapon, the other one is statistically more effective."
"You should delay, because I'm going to do X on my turn"

LET PEOPLE PLAY THEIR OWN CHARACTER FOR PETE'S SAKE!

I don't see the problem... you don't want players working as a team or teaching others how to use sound tactics and positioning?

There's a difference between asking and telling. I've seen some players locally just flat out tell other people how to play their characters. It is in fact, pretty obnoxious, much like Bob mentioned.

3/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Bob Jonquet wrote:

The most obnoxious thing, though not PFS specific, is when players tell others how to play their character, and/or tell them, mid-turn, not to take certain actions because it will interfere with what they have planned for their next (and subsequent) turns.

"Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane."
"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."
"No, don't use that weapon, the other one is statistically more effective."
"You should delay, because I'm going to do X on my turn"

LET PEOPLE PLAY THEIR OWN CHARACTER FOR PETE'S SAKE!

There is a wrong way to give advice. But giving advice should not be admonished.

There is also the courtesy of playing with your team. I have seen player put other players in severly bad positions.

I would say over a dozen times a player for no tactical reason moved in the only square I could five foot step into to avoid an AoO.

When players actions are putting other players at risk it is ignorant to not say something.

The Exchange 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:

The most obnoxious thing, though not PFS specific, is when players tell others how to play their character, and/or tell them, mid-turn, not to take certain actions because it will interfere with what they have planned for their next (and subsequent) turns.

"Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane."
"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."
"No, don't use that weapon, the other one is statistically more effective."
"You should delay, because I'm going to do X on my turn"

LET PEOPLE PLAY THEIR OWN CHARACTER FOR PETE'S SAKE!

There is in fact a time to do this. Some people spend 15 minutes trying to figure out what to do with a deeper darkness when its already been announced there's a daylight spell coming. Sometimes there is no reason for someone to wind up standing in the charge lane or shooting gallery. There's nothing wrong with (politely) asking someone to scoot over a square.

I know i don't always remember when the little lump of kinda green plastic on the table represents someone putting a sharp pointy object behind 100 pounds of draw weight, but my character would certainly notice that's not a good place to stand.

I am reminded of the scene from 13th Warrior when Ahmed (the Arab) starts to step forward to see better, and Rethel (the Archer) says: "DON'T step in from of me!" ... and he stops.

or earlier when Herger (the "Joyous" Viking) yanks the Ahmed out of the way ("Down!") so that Rethel can shoot a fire arrow into the mist...

The Exchange 5/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
nosig wrote:
Take 10?
Kyle Baird wrote:
Correction, Take 10 shirts
nosig wrote:

LOL!

I've started giving them away now.

I ordered 10 (wink-wink) in different sizes and colors - and have given 5 away so far... so if you see someone in one, it might not be me! LOL!

(I think I'll have to take another 10 - so I'll have more to give away as gifts!)

Yeah, cause intentionally wearing a shirt that essentially says, "You're an idiot, I know the rules better than you" is not obnoxious at all *sigh*

do you really believe a shirt with only the text of the Take 10 rule printed on it says that?

The Exchange 5/5

UndeadMitch wrote:
El_Jefe wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:

The most obnoxious thing, though not PFS specific, is when players tell others how to play their character, and/or tell them, mid-turn, not to take certain actions because it will interfere with what they have planned for their next (and subsequent) turns.

"Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane."
"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."
"No, don't use that weapon, the other one is statistically more effective."
"You should delay, because I'm going to do X on my turn"

LET PEOPLE PLAY THEIR OWN CHARACTER FOR PETE'S SAKE!

I don't see the problem... you don't want players working as a team or teaching others how to use sound tactics and positioning?
There's a difference between asking and telling. I've seen some players locally just flat out tell other people how to play their characters. It is in fact, pretty obnoxious, much like Bob mentioned.

It looks like two different things here...

said: "Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane."

heard: "You need to play your character the way I tell you to!"

Four examples given....

1) "Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane." - PC yells "Gang-WAY!"

2) "You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn." - PC calls out "Fireball coming on-line!"

3) "No, don't use that weapon, the other one is statistically more effective." - Mr. Cleric calls out "Blunt Weapons! Use Blunt Weapons on skeletons!"

4) "You should delay, because I'm going to do X on my turn" - The old warrior says: "wait for it... wait for it..." as the Orcs move forward...

But I am sure that "advice" could sometimes be given better...

3/5

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nosig wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:
nosig wrote:
Take 10?
Kyle Baird wrote:
Correction, Take 10 shirts
nosig wrote:

LOL!

I've started giving them away now.

I ordered 10 (wink-wink) in different sizes and colors - and have given 5 away so far... so if you see someone in one, it might not be me! LOL!

(I think I'll have to take another 10 - so I'll have more to give away as gifts!)

Yeah, cause intentionally wearing a shirt that essentially says, "You're an idiot, I know the rules better than you" is not obnoxious at all *sigh*

do you really believe a shirt with only the text of the Take 10 rule printed on it says that?

Some people read what they want to read.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Bob Jonquet wrote:

The most obnoxious thing, though not PFS specific, is when players tell others how to play their character, and/or tell them, mid-turn, not to take certain actions because it will interfere with what they have planned for their next (and subsequent) turns.

"Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane."
"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."
"No, don't use that weapon, the other one is statistically more effective."
"You should delay, because I'm going to do X on my turn"

LET PEOPLE PLAY THEIR OWN CHARACTER FOR PETE'S SAKE!

I am sorry that other people communicating with you so that THEY can play THEIR OWN character the way they want interferes with your ability to ignore everyone else around you for the sake of your own fun. Have you thought about playing a game that doesn't require you to be considerate of other people's desires?

The Exchange 5/5

trollbill wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:

The most obnoxious thing, though not PFS specific, is when players tell others how to play their character, and/or tell them, mid-turn, not to take certain actions because it will interfere with what they have planned for their next (and subsequent) turns.

"Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane."
"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."
"No, don't use that weapon, the other one is statistically more effective."
"You should delay, because I'm going to do X on my turn"

LET PEOPLE PLAY THEIR OWN CHARACTER FOR PETE'S SAKE!

I am sorry that other people communicating with you so that THEY can play THEIR OWN character the way they want interferes with your ability to ignore everyone else around you for the sake of your own fun. Have you thought about playing a game that doesn't require you to be considerate of other people's desires?

Relax, he's just giving advice on how to play... ;)

And actually he has a point. This can (and often is) over done. SOMETIMES it is constructive and instructive. SOMETIMES it is a problem... we just need to tred the line on when it is to much.

By the way, if I move my PC into your charge lane - I don't mind you saying "Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane." Just realize that I might respond... "yeah, I know!" ;)

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 **

nosig wrote:
Relax, he's just giving advice on how to play... ;)

Ooo...Irony...I like that.

Quote:

And actually he has a point. This can (and often is) over done. SOMETIMES it is constructive and instructive. SOMETIMES it is a problem... we just need to tred the line on when it is to much.

There are always polite and impolite ways of communicating. His suggestion, however, is to not communicate at all. Which is pretty silly for a social game.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

nosig wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:
nosig wrote:
Take 10?
Kyle Baird wrote:
Correction, Take 10 shirts
nosig wrote:

LOL!

I've started giving them away now.

I ordered 10 (wink-wink) in different sizes and colors - and have given 5 away so far... so if you see someone in one, it might not be me! LOL!

(I think I'll have to take another 10 - so I'll have more to give away as gifts!)

Yeah, cause intentionally wearing a shirt that essentially says, "You're an idiot, I know the rules better than you" is not obnoxious at all *sigh*

do you really believe a shirt with only the text of the Take 10 rule printed on it says that?

Interestingly, I have (on multiple occasions!) answered a rules question/error on the boards with nothing but a direct quote from the relevant rule and then been accused* of making personal attacks.

*Not by Bob, mind you.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

3 people marked this as a favorite.
trollbill wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:

The most obnoxious thing, though not PFS specific, is when players tell others how to play their character, and/or tell them, mid-turn, not to take certain actions because it will interfere with what they have planned for their next (and subsequent) turns.

"Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane."
"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."
"No, don't use that weapon, the other one is statistically more effective."
"You should delay, because I'm going to do X on my turn"

LET PEOPLE PLAY THEIR OWN CHARACTER FOR PETE'S SAKE!

I am sorry that other people communicating with you so that THEY can play THEIR OWN character the way they want interferes with your ability to ignore everyone else around you for the sake of your own fun. Have you thought about playing a game that doesn't require you to be considerate of other people's desires?

Cut Bob some slack, everybody! Maybe his examples don't look as bad as what he was probably thinking of, but I think we can give him the benefit of the doubt here and assume he means the "bad kind" of interjections on other people's turns. Like when a local player lectured me during my turn for having my spellcaster make a tactical withdrawal instead of setting him up for a flank. Stuff like that is probably what he meant.

3/5

Jiggy wrote:
nosig wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:
nosig wrote:
Take 10?
Kyle Baird wrote:
Correction, Take 10 shirts
nosig wrote:

LOL!

I've started giving them away now.

I ordered 10 (wink-wink) in different sizes and colors - and have given 5 away so far... so if you see someone in one, it might not be me! LOL!

(I think I'll have to take another 10 - so I'll have more to give away as gifts!)

Yeah, cause intentionally wearing a shirt that essentially says, "You're an idiot, I know the rules better than you" is not obnoxious at all *sigh*

do you really believe a shirt with only the text of the Take 10 rule printed on it says that?

Interestingly, I have (on multiple occasions!) answered a rules question/error on the boards with nothing but a direct quote from the relevant rule and then been accused* of making personal attacks.

*Not by Bob, mind you.

Jiggy, even when I disagree with you I agree with your brilliance. Some people are threatened by that.

As a side note Don't mess with texas is an anti-litter slogan, how often is it used as that? Wizards first rule kinda stuff.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Jiggy wrote:
trollbill wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:

The most obnoxious thing, though not PFS specific, is when players tell others how to play their character, and/or tell them, mid-turn, not to take certain actions because it will interfere with what they have planned for their next (and subsequent) turns.

"Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane."
"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."
"No, don't use that weapon, the other one is statistically more effective."
"You should delay, because I'm going to do X on my turn"

LET PEOPLE PLAY THEIR OWN CHARACTER FOR PETE'S SAKE!

I am sorry that other people communicating with you so that THEY can play THEIR OWN character the way they want interferes with your ability to ignore everyone else around you for the sake of your own fun. Have you thought about playing a game that doesn't require you to be considerate of other people's desires?
Cut Bob some slack, everybody! Maybe his examples don't look as bad as what he was probably thinking of, but I think we can give him the benefit of the doubt here and assume he means the "bad kind" of interjections on other people's turns. Like when a local player lectured me during my turn for having my spellcaster make a tactical withdrawal instead of setting him up for a flank. Stuff like that is probably what he meant.

While you are most likely correct (it's hard to believe that a 5-star VC could be as big a jerk as this one post suggests he is), it didn't help that one of his examples was:

"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."

As far as I can tell, that is a pretty polite way of making a suggestion that would likely be for everyone's mutual benefit. So if you can't even tolerate that, there is a problem.

3/5

trollbill wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
trollbill wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:

The most obnoxious thing, though not PFS specific, is when players tell others how to play their character, and/or tell them, mid-turn, not to take certain actions because it will interfere with what they have planned for their next (and subsequent) turns.

"Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane."
"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."
"No, don't use that weapon, the other one is statistically more effective."
"You should delay, because I'm going to do X on my turn"

LET PEOPLE PLAY THEIR OWN CHARACTER FOR PETE'S SAKE!

I am sorry that other people communicating with you so that THEY can play THEIR OWN character the way they want interferes with your ability to ignore everyone else around you for the sake of your own fun. Have you thought about playing a game that doesn't require you to be considerate of other people's desires?
Cut Bob some slack, everybody! Maybe his examples don't look as bad as what he was probably thinking of, but I think we can give him the benefit of the doubt here and assume he means the "bad kind" of interjections on other people's turns. Like when a local player lectured me during my turn for having my spellcaster make a tactical withdrawal instead of setting him up for a flank. Stuff like that is probably what he meant.

While you are most likely correct, it didn't help that one of his examples was:

"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."

As far as I can tell, that is a pretty polite way of making a suggestion that would likely be for everyone's mutual benefit. So if you can't even tolerate that, there is a problem.

LET PEOPLE CRITCIZE POLITENESS FOR PETE'S SAKE!

Grand Lodge 4/5

trollbill wrote:
While you are most likely correct (it's hard to believe that a 5-star VC could be as big a jerk as this one post suggests he is)

Venture Units are capable of all things regardless of star designations.

3/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Finlanderboy wrote:
Don't mess with texas is an anti-litter slogan

Checks Wikipedia...

Mind = blown

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 **

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Why do I have to do everything for Pete's sake? Can't Pete do something for someone else once in a while?

5/5

Finlanderboy wrote:
As a side note Don't mess with texas is an anti-litter slogan, how often is it used as that? Wizards first rule kinda stuff.

Other than on the actual anti-littering signs? Never.

5/5

I have met Bob. I like Bob. I look forward to meeting Bob again at Gen Con.

If a person is about to do something that is going to screw up my turn I am going to let them know.

My least favorite PFS rule is that all scrolls are arcane and divine. This has caused complications for two if my characters.

Silver Crusade 5/5

trollbill wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
trollbill wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:

The most obnoxious thing, though not PFS specific, is when players tell others how to play their character, and/or tell them, mid-turn, not to take certain actions because it will interfere with what they have planned for their next (and subsequent) turns.

"Don't move there, you're blocking my charge lane."
"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."
"No, don't use that weapon, the other one is statistically more effective."
"You should delay, because I'm going to do X on my turn"

LET PEOPLE PLAY THEIR OWN CHARACTER FOR PETE'S SAKE!

I am sorry that other people communicating with you so that THEY can play THEIR OWN character the way they want interferes with your ability to ignore everyone else around you for the sake of your own fun. Have you thought about playing a game that doesn't require you to be considerate of other people's desires?
Cut Bob some slack, everybody! Maybe his examples don't look as bad as what he was probably thinking of, but I think we can give him the benefit of the doubt here and assume he means the "bad kind" of interjections on other people's turns. Like when a local player lectured me during my turn for having my spellcaster make a tactical withdrawal instead of setting him up for a flank. Stuff like that is probably what he meant.

While you are most likely correct (it's hard to believe that a 5-star VC could be as big a jerk as this one post suggests he is), it didn't help that one of his examples was:

"You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn."

As far as I can tell, that is a pretty polite way of making a suggestion that would likely be for everyone's mutual benefit. So if you can't even tolerate that, there is a problem.

Because it's that hard to move a template 5 feet, or to make another slight adjustment? And, this is what truly boggles my mind, how are you getting that it is super inconsiderate for a person to play a game they way they want to. It's even more inconsiderate to assume that you just know how to play the game better than other people and if they don't follow all of your super tactical orders, then they're a jerk.

It's amazing that there is this much negative reaction to, "don't play other people's characters for them."

Shadow Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

If you think the negative reaction is to the idea of 'don't play other people's characters for them' you are missing the point.

Silver Crusade 5/5

It just strikes me as amusing that peole are seeing this and interpreting it in the worst possible way.

Edit: He doesn't say anything about not giving advice or not talking to people, but to not tell them what to do. One of hs examples sounded like advice, people are going off on him for it.

4/5 *

3 people marked this as a favorite.

There are no obnoxious rules, only obnoxious people. They can be on either side of the screen. That screen can be the GM screen, or the screen you're currently reading this on. If everyone would recognize that they don't have a monopoly on truth and that other people's perspectives, play styles, and personalities are equally valid as their own unless they violate "don't be a jerk", PFS would be a better place.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Mahtobedis wrote:

I have met Bob. I like Bob. I look forward to meeting Bob again at Gen Con.

If a person is about to do something that is going to screw up my turn I am going to let them know.

My least favorite PFS rule is that all scrolls are arcane and divine. This has caused complications for two if my characters.

But what if your action is going to screw up what they want to do? Why should they put their plans aside for yours?

Edit: For the original topic, my vote for most obnoxious rules are for older chase scenes. I do like how they handled it at the end of last season, though.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 **

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UndeadMitch wrote:
It just strikes me as amusing that peole are seeing this and interpreting it in the worst possible way.

Well, this is the internet.

However, as I already pointed out, "You might not want to move there. I'm going to cast fireball next turn," seems a polite suggestion rather than a command.

But here is the basic problem. Joe wants to play his character by charging into the middle of the enemy. Fred wants to play his character by throwing a fireball into the middle of the enemy. If Joe goes first and decides he wants to play his character by charging into the middle of the enemy, the PVP rules can prevent Fred from playing his character the way he wants to. If Fred were to tell Joe not to charge into the middle of the enemy, then Fred is rudely telling Joe how to play his character. If, on the other hand, Fred politely points out he wants to throw a fireball there and asks Joe not to charge there, Joe saying, "Don't tell me how to play my character. I am going to charge there anyway," is ironically Joe telling Fred (by action rather than word) how he has to play his character. In reality, neither character should be telling the other how to play their character. Both should be communicating so that both can play their characters the way they want to. But that process isn't going to start until Fred politely points out to Joe the potential conflict.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 **

UndeadMitch wrote:
Mahtobedis wrote:

I have met Bob. I like Bob. I look forward to meeting Bob again at Gen Con.

If a person is about to do something that is going to screw up my turn I am going to let them know.

My least favorite PFS rule is that all scrolls are arcane and divine. This has caused complications for two if my characters.

But what if your action is going to screw up what they want to do? Why should they put their plans aside for yours?

The whole point is that you should be communicating so that neither of you has to put your plans aside. But that isn't going to happen until one of you points out the potential conflict to the other.

3/5

UndeadMitch wrote:
Mahtobedis wrote:

I have met Bob. I like Bob. I look forward to meeting Bob again at Gen Con.

If a person is about to do something that is going to screw up my turn I am going to let them know.

My least favorite PFS rule is that all scrolls are arcane and divine. This has caused complications for two if my characters.

But what if your action is going to screw up what they want to do? Why should they put their plans aside for yours?

I say things all the time, abotu what I plan to do and say things bob hates all the time. But, just because I say it does not mean you have to listen. If you choose to do it anyway, I will adjust. That is perfectly fine.

I had someone snap at me for saying let me play my charactaer when I advised them I was going to haste them if they wanted to wait. Some people do not like advice at all.

If you have a problem let them know right before you get annoyed.

The Exchange 5/5

Perhaps we need an example of someone more "over the line" in running someone elses PC - with "suggestions"?

You need to run a cleric...:

I was judging beginners tables at ComicCON in my home town. I was expecting to have as much as 100% new players and prepared for that... but prepped several scenarios just in case we got someone who had played before, in case they had played my first choice...

and I had a one player who had played before! great! Now I didn't have to worry about healing at a table of all Iconic PCs, right?...

No such luck. The "old hand" was running a character with 2 XP, and 4 Fame... a Front Line, Fighter with an 18 STR, and a Great Sword...

He had spent 2PP on something... I remember now, it was masterwork halfplate armor.

Before starting, I (as the "old guy") mentioned that he might want to get something in the way of healing... just in case. Perhaps a wand of CLW? But I didn't push - just suggested.

After all, he was likely to be the only PC at the table with anything besides the 150 gp. starting money. His response? "Nah, one of them will just have to run a Cleric to keep me healed up." So he spent his gold on a Long Composite Bow, (STR 18 bow, and he had a DEX of 10), and saved his other two PP...

As each new player arrived and I passed out my folder with all the Iconic's printed up (and gave out new PFS numbers), he would say to each new player... "We need one of you to play a Cleric to keep me in the game"... and I would jump in to say, "Play what you want... I notice you are reading the gunslinger write-up..." He did get one of the players to run Kyra, then complained during play when she channeled to damage the ghouls... she was "wasting" her heals...

"One of you will have to run a Cleric to keep me healed up..."

Silver Crusade 5/5

I agree, the entire heart of the problem comes down to communication. If the table is communicating with each other, then there shouldn't be a problem. And if the table isn't communicating, they should be talking about what's going on in the game, it's a cooperative game.

As an aside, regarding the Fred/Joe thing. I'm not really going to comment on the specifics on that, because I think they're both being jerks.

Edit: Yeah nosig, that's a pretty good example, I had something similar happen while I was running a table at gencon. Two people showed up to play pregens at a table I was GM'ing, and the other players immediately started trying to tell the newbies what hey had to play. It went on for a minute before I cut them off and told the new people to play a class they thought they would enjoy.

3/5

nosig wrote:

Perhaps we need an example of someone more "over the line" in running someone elses PC - with "suggestions"?

** spoiler omitted **

Nosig bring up a great point.

Advice is great to be given, but do not give orders.

An example I had. The group had me playing the frontliner. I was decked out with a reach weapon. I had a bard playing with me that always wanted to stand at the square right behind me. In a narrow corridor I told him to give me a space to back up. He said he will move where he wants. I said you will get a full round attack from that monster if you do that. He snapped "let me play my character". I withdrew behind him so I would be able to use my weapon again, and he cried I was commiting PVP agaisnt him as the monster downed him.

Lantern Lodge 5/5 * Venture-Lieutenant, South Dakota—Rapid City

@Finlanderboy: I hope that was a learning experience for the player.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Finlanderboy wrote:
nosig wrote:

Perhaps we need an example of someone more "over the line" in running someone elses PC - with "suggestions"?

** spoiler omitted **

Nosig bring up a great point.

Advice is great to be given, but do not give orders.

An example I had. The group had me playing the frontliner. I was decked out with a reach weapon. I had a bard playing with me that always wanted to stand at the square right behind me. In a narrow corridor I told him to give me a space to back up. He said he will move where he wants. I said you will get a full round attack from that monster if you do that. He snapped "let me play my character". I withdrew behind him so I would be able to use my weapon again, and he cried I was commiting PVP agaisnt him as the monster downed him.

I can think of quite a few situations like this. And that is perhaps why I objected to Bob's comments so much. Because in my experience, the people screaming, "Don't tell me how to run my character," are more frequently the ones being the jerks than the people asking them to do something.

The Exchange 5/5

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UndeadMitch wrote:
Mahtobedis wrote:

I have met Bob. I like Bob. I look forward to meeting Bob again at Gen Con.

If a person is about to do something that is going to screw up my turn I am going to let them know.

My least favorite PFS rule is that all scrolls are arcane and divine. This has caused complications for two if my characters.

But what if your action is going to screw up what they want to do? Why should they put their plans aside for yours?

Not to sound completely pedantic, but, because initiative order, that's why. I don't have a problem with pre-planning a combat. I don't have a problem with casters informing folks ahead of time "Hey, I tend to blow things up, so keep an eye out for being within a 20' radius of the bad guy." I don't have a mind with the idea of a hurriedly shouted "FIREBALL ON TARGET ALPHA!"

What annoys me (both as a GM and as a player) is when we are in the middle of a tense combat, and one of the PCs (whose turn is NOW) makes a decision based on what THEY want to do) and gets yelled at by players whose turn is NOT NOW, because they are going to interfere with the NOT NOW players preferred action.

That's not an organic, flowing combat experience. In the heat of battle, the situation changes. When it is YOUR turn in initiative, take the action that works at that moment.

Telling the fighter he is screwing up YOUR plans because he stepped into the fireball radius is, in my opinion, as bad as telling the bad guy he is screwing up YOUR plans because he stepped out of it.

We go in initiative order for a reason. When your turn rolls around, play the hand you are dealt. Don't tell other people what to do with the hand they are dealt.

A great way to handle this is to discuss, during party introductions at the beginning of the mod, the sort of tactics you like to have, or to have a quick discussion before combat of signals and whatnot.

For instance:

Hey everybody, I am Mervin the Magician, and I like to use Lightning Bolt to zorch the bad guys. If you could make sure and leave a straight line between me and as many bad guys as possible, that would be great. In fact, if we are in a fight, and you hear me shout "Blue Streak!", that will that you know that, between now and my next turn, you should do your best to clear a path, because I am about to light these sumbishes UP.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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PFS-legal obnoxiousness: The orc bloodline for sorcerers. First because... what? Orcs are a completely nonmagical race. So nonmagical that even being fully half orc doesn't give you diddly-squat as far as magic goes, yet having traces of orc in your ancestry gives you full-on sorcerer-level magical powers? What? And secondly because the only crossblooded combination I've ever seen anyone complain about is the one that requires the orc bloodline, but every time I hear such a complaint, what gets blamed is not the orc bloodline but the crossblooded archetype, despite there being no other crossblooded builds (that I've ever heard of, at least) that ever create problems. Laying blame in the wrong place is a pet peeve of mine, so this phenomenon of blaming crossblooded instead of orc for the crossblooded orc/draconic builds really irks me.

Down with the orc bloodline!

Silver Crusade 4/5

Undone wrote:

What do you think are the most obnoxious PFS legal rules.

It can be for OP.
It can be for illogical.
It can be for time consuming.
It can be because it vexes you (like guns or tech for some people).

Anything.

For me
** spoiler omitted **
For obnoxious adventures
** spoiler omitted **

Spoilers. I do not think they work like you think they work. (TL/DR: Put the name of the thing you're spoiling outside the spoiler, so people have the necessary information when deciding whether or not they want to open the spoiler.)

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Zandari wrote:
In fact, if we are in a fight, and you hear me shout "Blue Streak!", that will that you know...

Derail:

I've often pondered the idea of coordinating with another player to make a couple of very tactically-minded characters, and have a list of code phrases that refer to various tactics or situations that we can call out to each other.

Grand Lodge 4/5

I like to shout in-character warnings to my fellow players. Often without out-of-character explanation, just to see what happens. :)

3/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jiggy wrote:

PFS-legal obnoxiousness: The orc bloodline for sorcerers. First because... what? Orcs are a completely nonmagical race. So nonmagical that even being fully half orc doesn't give you diddly-squat as far as magic goes, yet having traces of orc in your ancestry gives you full-on sorcerer-level magical powers? What? And secondly because the only crossblooded combination I've ever seen anyone complain about is the one that requires the orc bloodline, but every time I hear such a complaint, what gets blamed is not the orc bloodline but the crossblooded archetype, despite there being no other crossblooded builds (that I've ever heard of, at least) that ever create problems. Laying blame in the wrong place is a pet peeve of mine, so this phenomenon of blaming crossblooded instead of orc for the crossblooded orc/draconic builds really irks me.

Down with the orc bloodline!

Crossblooded alos you lets you take bloodlines for your spells to effect other types of creautres.

I think the classes are built poorly to offer a huge often not scalign bonus at level one that allows dips in the bloodline.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

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Quote:
If you think the negative reaction is to the idea of 'don't play other people's characters for them' you are missing the point.

And if you think my comments in some way indicate you cannot talk at the table, then you are also missing the point. This is yet another example of people taking what is said and immediately jumping to the worse conclusions and assuming the absolute extremes. My point is that I constantly see players (usually rules lawyers) criticize other player's character build decisions what they "should" have done with their feats, equipment purchases, etc. And too many munchkins over-bearingly telling others what to do with their characters so they can min/max every single possible variable in the game. I'm generally not against power-gaming (or whatever you want to call it), but that's YOUR style of play. Not everyone derives pleasure from squeezing every last advantage, some just like to play for the fun of playing. There is cooperation and then there is dominating other players.

The point is, if a player is struggling with the game, then sure, give them advice. But if they are not interested in your comments, then leave them alone. Or if the player is obviously experienced with the game, they don't really need someone instructing their every action. Sometimes, people make less than optimized choices. That's not a bad thing. The idea that characters would never make a mistake (my character would know better) because their stat blocks are better than the player's real life one is ludicrous, but that is often the attitude I see. Just an observation.

This is also another great example of why sooo many people just don't want to participate in our forums, especially the Venture-Officers. I know its not all the time (fallacy), but it just seems like most of our opinion-posts are greeted with vitriol. And gawd forbid we list an example (good or bad) to try and illustrate our comment and it is picked apart. Its also a contributing reason why rarely will Mike/John give us details as to why a decision was made. Because no matter what you say, or how logically the decision was arrived at, the loudest voices will always nit-pick and slam them for it.

*sits back and awaits the next round of flaming

Grand Lodge 4/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
Quote:
If you think the negative reaction is to the idea of 'don't play other people's characters for them' you are missing the point.
And if you think my comments in some way indicate you cannot talk at the table, then you are also missing the point.

Well, I'm certainly missing your points, since I wasn't reading or responding to your posts. :)

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