I've always wanted to build Master Yi from league of legends. His signature move is moving so fast so as to cut four people before they feel the slash. Standard Wushu stuff. You can do it with the magus and dimensional agility line of feats, but that comes online way to late and I play games that are pre level 10. Also Master Yi does not use shocking grasp :p and he wields a two-handed sword.
I'm not sure that that's accurate. Define Clumsy... Seems to me that it's basically a Wizard with maybe low Wisdom and Dexterity? You'll miss the Dex to AC, I guess, but really, you don't even need to dump Wis and Dex to be clumsy, you can just roleplay yourself as clumsy.Clumsy genius wizards can be done but don't work well in Pathfinder.
No, I was specifically referring to dumping dexterity. With heavy armor you can leave it around average, but only an oracle with one of three certain mysteries can get away with a dexterity of 7.
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The ones that can function without magic items, yes.All Monks?
The Monk has magic Su powers.
Isn't Circular Reasoning fun.
We define a problem that requires a very specific solution (incorporeal), exclude all possible sources that offer a solution, followed by the statement, "there is no possible solution."
Ah, but there are no stats for a chicken.Familiars/Animal Companion/Leadership?(Maybe an Awakened chicken).These are ones I actually think should be easy, but can't quite see how they could be done.
Man with intelligent chicken.
Warrior, who rides an Unicorn.
Take a dodo. Make it one size category smaller. Call it chicken.
I'm sure there are chickens in Golarion.
(You could also make a chicken eidolon, I suppose).
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Ah, but there are no stats for a chicken.Familiars/Animal Companion/Leadership?(Maybe an Awakened chicken).These are ones I actually think should be easy, but can't quite see how they could be done.
Man with intelligent chicken.
Warrior, who rides an Unicorn.
Take a dodo. Make it one size category smaller. Call it chicken.
I'm sure there are chickens in Golarion.
(You could also make a chicken eidolon, I suppose).
Ah, but that is houseruling.
Seriously, I have been asking about chicken familiar/stats for a couple of years now. We get the platypus, and dodo, but no chicken.
In PFS, chickens don't exist.
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A completely nonmagical warrior who has trained to the point of being able to do things that absolutely cannot be duplicated by a freaking commoner no matter what level, stats, or gear the commoner has.
Take a look at the list of fighter only feats. Commoners cannot duplicate many of those, regardless of gear.
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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A completely nonmagical warrior who has trained to the point of being able to do things that absolutely cannot be duplicated by a freaking commoner no matter what level, stats, or gear the commoner has.Take a look at the list of fighter only feats. Commoners cannot duplicate many of those, regardless of gear.
I'm not aware of a way to sort a list of fighter-only feats; might be easier if you name one of those many examples.
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A character whose entire schtick is based off of Charles Atlas Superpowers. This character would be able to accomplish feats like:
- Jump onto a dragon's back.
- Break steel with nothing but his bare hands.
- Block attacks aimed at him while blinded.
- Piledrive a Fire Giant.
And do all this without using any magic whatsoever. His power all comes from grit, gumption, and doing like a billion situps every day.
Somebody mentioned "poisoner". Now given OP's example of a psion, there is no reason why a player cannot play a sorcerer, call it a poisoner, focus on appropriate spells (sleep, daze monster, etc), only applies spells via touch, and calls the spells appropriate poison names. "Narcotic poison" (sleep), "muscle relaxing toxin" (daze monster).
In other words, any "cannot be done" is really saying "cannot be done this way", or "cannot be done and still be as good as the minmaxed synthesist", or even "cannot be done in PFS".
Except for the part where he's actually casting spells and has to follow all those rules. Uses per day. Can be dispelled. Doesn't work in anti-magic. Anyone with a spellcraft roll knows they're really spells. Has to chant & wave his arms.
So?
You can make poison via magic, why shouldn't the poisoner follow the normal spell-based rules?
If the request is to make a mundane poison user, then sure, it doesn't work so well. But really the call was for a "poisoner". If you're willing to suspend disbelief a bit then you realize that the "chanting" is recalling the poison recipe and the waving of arms is mixing the ingredients (and of course the spell component pouch is the poison reagents pouch). AND what's more, when an enemy caster uses dispel to stop a poison, he really is just disrupting the delicate balance of ingredients. Anti-magic field? Obviously a zone in which ordinary laws of physics don't apply - your reagents don't react properly anymore.
Really, the more you think about it and get into it, the more reasonable the idea is.
Yes.Non-magical guy who overcomes level appropriate challenges without magic of any sort.Do magic items count? Like the big 6?
Notion of CR is tied to WBL. You need a different challenge rating system for that.
After doing that you can make the non-magical guy who overcomes level appropriate challenges. An odd game to play though past level 6.
an assassin with an entire miniature arsenal of spells designed to make her a better assassin while still being a competent martial combatant that can take down level appropriate challenges, must have swift action teleportation, swift action greater invisibility, must have a means to decieve ALL of the special senses from tremorsense to blindsight, must have the ability to see in any condition, whether mist or magical darkness, and must be able to deal decent martial damage through a light weapon on the move without a reliance on sneak attacks or coup de grace
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an assassin with an entire miniature arsenal of spells designed to make her a better assassin while still being a competent martial combatant that can take down level appropriate challenges, must have swift action teleportation, swift action greater invisibility, must have a means to decieve ALL of the special senses from tremorsense to blindsight, must have the ability to see in any condition, whether mist or magical darkness, and must be able to deal decent martial damage through a light weapon on the move without a reliance on sneak attacks or coup de grace
This to me is an example of "you can't have what you want WHEN you want it." It can be done, but it takes close to a 20th level character to pull it off.
I'm not aware of a way to sort a list of fighter-only feats; might be easier if you name one of those many examples.A completely nonmagical warrior who has trained to the point of being able to do things that absolutely cannot be duplicated by a freaking commoner no matter what level, stats, or gear the commoner has.Take a look at the list of fighter only feats. Commoners cannot duplicate many of those, regardless of gear.
Disruptive, Spellbreaker, Greater Shield Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Wpn specialization, Penetrating strike, and that's just in the CRB.
No Commoner can "Enemies in your threatened area that fail their checks to cast spells defensively provoke attacks of opportunity from you." No human commoner can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium or heavy armor. Commoners can be disarmed, while 20th level fighter cant. No commoner has their crits always confirmed. Commoners do not have " immunity to mind-affecting effects", commoners cant "At 15th level, as a swift action, a tactician can grant his Intelligence modifier as an insight bonus on the attack rolls made by a single ally within line of sight that can both see and hear the tactician." No commoner has "complete immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks ", etc.
an assassin with an entire miniature arsenal of spells designed to make her a better assassin while still being a competent martial combatant that can take down level appropriate challenges, must have swift action teleportation, swift action greater invisibility, must have a means to decieve ALL of the special senses from tremorsense to blindsight, must have the ability to see in any condition, whether mist or magical darkness, and must be able to deal decent martial damage through a light weapon on the move without a reliance on sneak attacks or coup de graceThis to me is an example of "you can't have what you want WHEN you want it." It can be done, but it takes close to a 20th level character to pull it off.
which means it is a concept that cannot be done in almost any campaign, and if included, would be a post game thing. it would mean it is a concept not doable in any campaign, because there is nobody that really plays a 20th level character at all or allows them for more than maybe a one shot or two. i would love it if something like this could be done at 5th level reliably.
Snowflame?
I'd go Mutagenic Mauler, with a bit of reflavoring on the mutagen.
which means it is a concept that cannot be done in almost any campaign, and if included, would be a post game thing. it would mean it is a concept not doable in any campaign, because there is nobody that really plays a 20th level character at all or allows them for more than maybe a one shot or two. i would love it if something like this could be done at 5th level reliably.an assassin with an entire miniature arsenal of spells designed to make her a better assassin while still being a competent martial combatant that can take down level appropriate challenges, must have swift action teleportation, swift action greater invisibility, must have a means to decieve ALL of the special senses from tremorsense to blindsight, must have the ability to see in any condition, whether mist or magical darkness, and must be able to deal decent martial damage through a light weapon on the move without a reliance on sneak attacks or coup de graceThis to me is an example of "you can't have what you want WHEN you want it." It can be done, but it takes close to a 20th level character to pull it off.
Just because it's a high end concept doesn't mean it isn't one. By your logic, the idea that "anything can be done" is wrong because someone could have the concept, "a highly powerful spellcaster who can literally bend reality to his will" and it's nix because you can't get the wish spell until level 17. You still have to follow the rules. You can't say "I want to be #$%*ing amazing at combat, capable of making six attacks a round, but I want to do it at level 1." You, by that very definition, would no longer be at level 1. The idea you mentioned, for example, could be done by a decently leveled eldrich knight. But you can't make Conan at level 1. Drizzt isn't level 1. Elminster isn't level 1. If your concept is epic in scope it is necessary to be epic in levels.
i'm not asking to build a famous novel character with epic powers, just a character that has a power level comparable to a street level super while still being effective at their job. an arcane assassin that deals viable melee damage and can do basic things performed by shonen protagonist assassins.
i'm not asking to build a famous novel character with epic powers, just a character that has a power level comparable to a street level super while still being effective at their job. an arcane assassin that deals viable melee damage and can do basic things performed by shonen protagonist assassins.
Shonen protagonist assassins are not in the fantasy genre. And in that genre, you're talking about a high level character.
i'm not asking to build a famous novel character with epic powers, just a character that has a power level comparable to a street level super while still being effective at their job. an arcane assassin that deals viable melee damage and can do basic things performed by shonen protagonist assassins.Shonen protagonist assassins are not in the fantasy genre. And in that genre, you're talking about a high level character.
how high level is the skill set of being able to "Flash Step with little effort" "Dissapear on a Dime" and "Fool most senses?" most of that sounds like pretty basic stuff a low-mid level high fantasy assassin type character should be able to do. none of this really screams post 10th level to me.
most shonen protagonists really don't do epic things like "Shatter Reality", most of them spam relatively simple things boosted by a decent attribute allotment. none of the stuff i mentioned is comparable to the divine god emulating powers possessed by a high level wizard.
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The point is, your concept CAN be done. The point of this thread is not to debate what level various abilities should come at, the point is to see if there are concepts that cannot be made using the rules. Yours can.
what about a character who drains life energy from elemental beings to fuel her mana reserve in a vampiric style seemingly without effort and channels the essence of elemental spirits whose life essence she absorbed to fight better in melee combat? Shang Tsun Style? essentially, a faerie who feeds on elementals the way a vampire or succubus feeds on humans.
what about a character who drains life energy from elemental beings to fuel her mana reserve in a vampiric style seemingly without effort and channels the essence of elemental spirits whose life essence she absorbed to fight better in melee combat? Shang Tsun Style? essentially, a faerie who feeds on elementals the way a vampire or succubus feeds on humans.
Actually Hungry Ghost Qinggong Monk could probably do all that.
an assassin with an entire miniature arsenal of spells designed to make her a better assassin while still being a competent martial combatant that can take down level appropriate challenges, must have swift action teleportation, swift action greater invisibility, must have a means to decieve ALL of the special senses from tremorsense to blindsight, must have the ability to see in any condition, whether mist or magical darkness, and must be able to deal decent martial damage through a light weapon on the move without a reliance on sneak attacks or coup de grace
And this looks like a dimensional dervish magus with a quicken rod for greater invisibility. With retraining rules it is done by level 10. You will have extra other abilities too, that would need to be ignored for concept.
The agile weapon property can be used to make you dex focused. The magus can boost their weapon's enhancement bonus too via pool. Your damage should be more than decent if you use spell combat.
Jedi shadow from swtor.
Two bladed sword, sneak attack, melee focused, and has psionic and necromantic attack spells as well as some shields.
Closest I can think of is bard sandman with the witches spell list up to 6th level. But that probably isn't balanced
Jedi shadow from swtor.
Two bladed sword, sneak attack, melee focused, and has psionic and necromantic attack spells as well as some shields.
Closest I can think of is bard sandman with the witches spell list up to 6th level. But that probably isn't balanced
Jedi? Seriously? How on Golarion does that fall into the category of Fantasy?
Jedi? Seriously? How on Golarion does that fall into the category of Fantasy?Jedi shadow from swtor.
Two bladed sword, sneak attack, melee focused, and has psionic and necromantic attack spells as well as some shields.
Closest I can think of is bard sandman with the witches spell list up to 6th level. But that probably isn't balanced
Star Wars is fantasy with sci-fi elements.
Star Wars is fantasy with sci-fi elements.Jedi? Seriously? How on Golarion does that fall into the category of Fantasy?Jedi shadow from swtor.
Two bladed sword, sneak attack, melee focused, and has psionic and necromantic attack spells as well as some shields.
Closest I can think of is bard sandman with the witches spell list up to 6th level. But that probably isn't balanced
I generally use Soulknives or Psychic Warriors as faux-Jedi. All they really are are keneticist fighters with Brilliant Energy longswords so some kind of Monk build would probably do it.
Star Wars is fantasy with sci-fi elements.Jedi? Seriously? How on Golarion does that fall into the category of Fantasy?Jedi shadow from swtor.
Two bladed sword, sneak attack, melee focused, and has psionic and necromantic attack spells as well as some shields.
Closest I can think of is bard sandman with the witches spell list up to 6th level. But that probably isn't balanced
I know Wikipedia isn't the end all beat all for references, but...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_operaRead the first sentence. Sci-Fi. Not Fantasy.
I know Wikipedia isn't the end all beat all for references, but...
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Star Wars is fantasy with sci-fi elements.Jedi? Seriously? How on Golarion does that fall into the category of Fantasy?Jedi shadow from swtor.
Two bladed sword, sneak attack, melee focused, and has psionic and necromantic attack spells as well as some shields.
Closest I can think of is bard sandman with the witches spell list up to 6th level. But that probably isn't balanced
I know Wikipedia isn't the end all beat all for references, but...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_operaRead the first sentence. Sci-Fi. Not Fantasy.
Even so, the Jedi power set isn't that science-fictiony. They are kind of telekinetic monks or clerics.
Primalist (Wizard), yup.Wild Mage.
A caster that doesn't have full control over his magic and sometimes things go wrong, or go super amazing.
Ya, if once a day, if you're lucky
It scales horribly, the theme is ther, but it just lacks anything but the most token gestures.And since it references a optional rule set, as opposed to just having the rules in the archetype it's never allowed, even though it's so dammed limited.
Also, the classical "magic drains your life energy" style Mage. We've tried a house rule with non lethal damage with multipliers based on spell level, or some kinda point system...but nothing fits.
Also, the classical "magic drains your life energy" style Mage. We've tried a house rule with non lethal damage with multipliers based on spell level, or some kinda point system...but nothing fits.
Vampiric Touch?
Superhero RPGs tend to need a very different rule system as such characters commonly have the strength to juggle cars, become bulletproof, and are still expected to slugfest with other super powered beings for a few rounds of combat. To simulate this, a very different rule set is usually required to simulate what happens in comics.
Stuff like this already exists. Characters can easily reach enough strength to lift cars. Being bullet proof is already covered by damage reduction.
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What about a group of spell casters that can combine their energy to cast higher level spells than any of them could manage alone?
CAPTAIN PLANET! He's a hero...
I would dare say there are a ton of concepts that can't work as a re-flavoring of core rules. But, I welcome others to prove me wrong. Let's try:
Spellcaster who can only cast spells immediately after swallowing a mouthful of soil.
Player who chooses not to have his sorcerer cast spells except under those conditions? Alternatively, he could just call this part of the spell components (verbal-only spells would have a component of "AFLRGR" that can only be pronounced with a mouthful of dirt in the mouth).
Fighter who's power wanes and waxes with the cycles of the moon
Uhhh...magic items and racial/class abilities with 1/week and 1/month usages, timed so more of them become usable the closer you get to the full moon. I don't have anything specific, but I'm sure enough of them exist that this could be worth.
A virus.
Spellcasters creating their own spells is a time-honored classic.
A planet.
A weird wish spell.
CAPTAIN PLANET! He's a hero...What about a group of spell casters that can combine their energy to cast higher level spells than any of them could manage alone?
LOL! I was actually thinking about a coven of witches.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes/common-hexes/hex-c oven-ex
or, alternatively...
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-a rchetypes/magician
Jedi? Seriously? How on Golarion does that fall into the category of Fantasy?Jedi shadow from swtor.
Two bladed sword, sneak attack, melee focused, and has psionic and necromantic attack spells as well as some shields.
Closest I can think of is bard sandman with the witches spell list up to 6th level. But that probably isn't balanced
You mean like blasters, androids, robots and nanites? Did you miss a whole section of Golarion with plenty of sci-fi in it?