Looking at the recently updated PRD, I'm seeing some things that I thought Paizo has said they weren't planning to do with Pathfinder - Haven't they said they weren't interested in doing cyberpunk or Sci Fi? I'm pretty sure I've seen that in the annual contest rules or something...Our gamemasters don't even want to include the psionics rules, and now we're going to wind up with laser rifles in the standard Pathfinder rules?
orcs VS Space marines?
Orc Space marines?
Sounds a bit too much like Ralph Bakshi's "Wizards" to me...
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The Technology Guide is on the PRD because it is required for running Iron Gods, the newest Adventure Path.
If you do not like the Technology rules, then do not play Iron Gods.
And if you do not play Iron Gods, then no, you do not have to worry about winding up with chocolate lazors in your fantasy peanut butter.
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Good thing about options is that they are optional. So if you guys don't want to use them, you don't have to.
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it's Numeria, the entire place is alien like, there were giants robots running around since the beginning of pathfinder, even Androids. They simply clarified what was there, which indeed include magic and super science.
If you aren't playing in Numeria, you don't need to add any of these stuffs. As far as I know most people plays Varisia, which is basically standard fantasy setting.
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Looking at the recently updated PRD, I'm seeing some things that I thought Paizo has said they weren't planning to do with Pathfinder - Haven't they said they weren't interested in doing cyberpunk or Sci Fi? I'm pretty sure I've seen that in the annual contest rules or something...Our gamemasters don't even want to include the psionics rules, and now we're going to wind up with laser rifles in the standard Pathfinder rules?
orcs VS Space marines?
Orc Space marines?
Sounds a bit too much like Ralph Bakshi's "Wizards" to me...
Paizo doesnt want to make a seperate scify or cyber punk game/setting. They dont want to split their audience. However, golarion is in fact a kitchen sink setting. There has always been numeria, a place with a giant crashed space ship in it. Its called Silver Mount, its right there in the Inner Sea World guide. So while paizo wont make a new setting for space operas, they are more then happy to add rules for Numeria's crazy technology space robots with lazers for heads.
Similarly, whether or not game masters like it, there is a region of golarion that is psionics focused. Same thing with firearms, ninjas/samurai, and just about every other trope imaginable. They all have their own little (or not little) section of golarion. As adventure paths get set in that area, there will be campaign setting and companion products to support them.
The technology guide is sort of special in this case. For the first time, an adventure path (Iron Gods) needed the setting book, not just to enhance it (like most do) but actually needed the rules. So rather then force everyone to buy the tech guide along with the adventure paths, paizo added the technology guide to the prd.
The tech guide is no more part of the 'standard' rules then any other campaign setting product. Dont want lasers and robots? Dont run your game in numeria, simple as that.
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Maybe a a quick history lesson, for those not in the know, would help. Numeria actually scratches a particular nostalgia itch for some older players. Notably:
Expedition to the Barrier Peaks for AD&D
A discussion of Wrath of the Immortals, noting elements such as the nuclear reactor, radioactive mutations, guns, etc.
So, to be a really comprehensive classic style world, Golarion has sci-fi elements.
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we're going to wind up with laser rifles in the standard Pathfinder rules?
OMG YES
Since I don't have any of the background text: In-universe, what keeps Numeria tech from spilling over into the rest of Golarion?
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I would strongly suspect that it's the ruling class of Numeria, not wanting to give away their big advantage. Can't prove it, though.
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So, to be a really comprehensive classic style world, Golarion has sci-fi elements.
It's true.
To be fair, it stretches back even further than the Barrier Peaks, all the way back to Blackmoor, the second supplement ever released for D&D back in 1975. This means it predates things like demihumans choosing classes, demons, and druids.
Cheers!
Landon
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The high tech numeria tech is kept in check because:
It's been thousands of years since the crash: a lot of the tech is broken or malfunctioning
A lot of it is buried (the local Kellids greatly feared it for a good part of their history), or in crashed ship-parts crawling with robots and aliens, and sometimes fatal amounts of radioactivity.
What functioning stuff that does get out gets snatched up by Technic League, who are willing to kill to keep the technology from escaping their control.
Even if you get ahold of some tech that works and you understand enough to use, power charges are limited (after which it becomes useless), and it's so advanced that you can't replicate it. A lot of Numeria tech would probably be hard to replicate with our level of technology; Most of Golarion is at best Renaissance level as far as science and engineering goes.
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While I understand why, I am saddened that the techslinger archetype doesn't start with some kind of blaster.
The Technology Guide is on the PRD because it is required for running Iron Gods, the newest Adventure Path.
If you do not like the Technology rules, then do not play Iron Gods.
And if you do not play Iron Gods, then no, you do not have to worry about winding up with chocolate lazors in your fantasy peanut butter.
And thankfully nobody has ever used the reasoning "it's part of the Pathfinder rules so I'm using it".
Since I don't have any of the background text: In-universe, what keeps Numeria tech from spilling over into the rest of Golarion?
Backstabbing politics.
Come to think about it, the reason is pretty close to the reason Eox hasn't taken over all of Golarion yet.
Intriguing. Given Distant Worlds, I'd have put this stuff on one of the other celestial bodies rather than make it a country right smack in the middle of "normal" Golarion, but . . . eh. Guess I'll have to pick up some of the relevant campaign setting books and see how that worked out.
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It was there from the beginning, long before DW came out.
I stand by my post.
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I can't see the logic of "this should have gone on another planet" when the other planets didn't exist at the time Numeria was created.
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I stumbled upon this and really LOVE what I saw. I'm going to use it it for lots of stuff in the coming future!
What book are these option rules in?
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2. They are planning something that's essentially Barrier Peaks on Steroids. and Numeria is the setting for Barrier Peaks writ large. The tech introduced has self-limiting factors that ensure the planet is not going to be overrun by legions of Cybermen.
People always SAY we're not going to be overrun by Cybermen this time, but we still end up having to have the Doctor save us, don't we?
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And thankfully nobody has ever used the reasoning "it's part of the Pathfinder rules so I'm using it".
In fairness, if you as a gm allow that to fly, it's your fault. Artifacts exist too, but you shouldn't let your players have one because they are in the rules. This goes double in homebrew settings.
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2. They are planning something that's essentially Barrier Peaks on Steroids. and Numeria is the setting for Barrier Peaks writ large. The tech introduced has self-limiting factors that ensure the planet is not going to be overrun by legions of Cybermen.People always SAY we're not going to be overrun by Cybermen this time, but we still end up having to have the Doctor save us, don't we?
We're not going to be overrun by Cybermen. The monsters who are going to overrun the world look more like Dalek expies.
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Maybe a a quick history lesson, for those not in the know, would help. Numeria actually scratches a particular nostalgia itch for some older players. Notably:
Expedition to the Barrier Peaks for AD&D
A discussion of Wrath of the Immortals, noting elements such as the nuclear reactor, radioactive mutations, guns, etc.
So, to be a really comprehensive classic style world, Golarion has sci-fi elements.
There were Gamma World conversion rules in the 1st edition Dungeon Master's Guide.
Even the grognard's cannot complain. Mixing lasers into AD&D goes back to the beginning.
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2. They are planning something that's essentially Barrier Peaks on Steroids. and Numeria is the setting for Barrier Peaks writ large. The tech introduced has self-limiting factors that ensure the planet is not going to be overrun by legions of Cybermen.People always SAY we're not going to be overrun by Cybermen this time, but we still end up having to have the Doctor save us, don't we?We're not going to be overrun by Cybermen. The monsters who are going to overrun the world look more like Dalek expies.
Man, now I wish Bestiary 4 had Dalek expies...
The Pure Legion has saved Golarion from alien invasion by outlawing the celebration of Christmas.2. They are planning something that's essentially Barrier Peaks on Steroids. and Numeria is the setting for Barrier Peaks writ large. The tech introduced has self-limiting factors that ensure the planet is not going to be overrun by legions of Cybermen.People always SAY we're not going to be overrun by Cybermen this time, but we still end up having to have the Doctor save us, don't we?
Are you kidding, Iron Gods is Christmas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And thankfully nobody has ever used the reasoning "it's part of the Pathfinder rules so I'm using it".In fairness, if you as a gm allow that to fly, it's your fault. Artifacts exist too, but you shouldn't let your players have one because they are in the rules. This goes double in homebrew settings.
Oh I completely agree. That won't stop people from crying about bad GMs not allowing official Pathfinder content though. I think it's goofy, but I know it's not a new concept.
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Say it with me. Tek-yes-mancer. There. Easy. Mmm. Tastes like peanut butter'n'chocolate.
The tricky bit is spitting out the dwarves. And gnomes. And halflings. And....
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...Tastes like peanut butter'n'chocolate.
The tricky bit is spitting out the dwarves. And gnomes. And halflings. And....
Uhuh. And this from someone who advocates vegepygmies and gelatinous cubes as PC races.
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I on the other hand am 100% in favor of dwarven cannoneers, halfling Magitek pilots, and gnome Sparks.
Or pretty much any rearrangement thereof.
=)
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Oh I completely agree. That won't stop people from crying about bad GMs not allowing official Pathfinder content though. I think it's goofy, but I know it's not a new concept.And thankfully nobody has ever used the reasoning "it's part of the Pathfinder rules so I'm using it".In fairness, if you as a gm allow that to fly, it's your fault. Artifacts exist too, but you shouldn't let your players have one because they are in the rules. This goes double in homebrew settings.
If someone honestly wanted to use the rules from this book in a non setting system i'd let them.
Player: I want to play a techslinger.
Me: This isnt a numeria game, we are actually going to be in [insert place not in numeria]
Player: Yea but its in the prd, that means I can use it right?
Me: Well, no, I still get to approve what you use, but for argument sake, lets say I allow it, theres no tech available for sale, or any technological labs in the area you will be in. In fact its a big [insert something other then technological dungeon filled numeria]. Theres no tech to be found either. No one has laser guns in [location].
Player: But I want it, so I can take the crafting feats, and craft mechanical and make my own stuff.
Me: Again, technically yes but there are a few problems. First, you wont have access to the labs required to craft these things. Look at the requirements for crafting each of these items. They require a specific kind of lab. These wont be present where you are.
Player: Yea but I can build a lab of my own, if my knowledge and craft are high enough, right?
Me: Well again technically sure, if you had the expertise and the knowledge and the tool/materials which you wont have access to, but what you wont have is power to run them. Those labs require charges from a power generator which is a kind of tech artifact IE not craftable. So you wont have one.
Player: Oh
Me: So yea if you want to trade out a bunch of useful class abilities, for a bunch that you will literally have no opportunity to use, then I wont stop you, but I dont recommend it.
Edit:
Please note that the above is also the reason tech wont overun golarion. It has to stay close to the generators. Those generators are for the most part not movable (part of the crashed space ship). They are artifacts which no one as yet has been able to reproduce. The few portable generators either dont work or a closely guarded by the technic league and also are artifacts not able to be reproduced. Even if you had an army of laser armed robots, they could travel far from wherever you made them because they'd run out of power and you wouldnt be able to recharge them. Same with laser guns and all the other tech, once you move away from the generators, its a limited use disposable item.
Same with laser guns and all the other tech, once you move away from the generators, its a limited use disposable item.
You do know that there are spells and class abilities to recharge items without a generator right?
Which stand a fairly decent chance of destroying said items when applied. Or are momentary charges which will last no more than a few seconds before fading away.Same with laser guns and all the other tech, once you move away from the generators, its a limited use disposable item.You do know that there are spells and class abilities to recharge items without a generator right?
AH... Not really. Did you take a REALLY good look at the options.
Recharge: 20% destroy chance on BATTERIES. You cast it on the actual item and you get 1/2 charges with NO chance of destruction. Blood money + this spell = 1/2 level charges for 1d6 damage and 2 str damage and no gp cost.
Arcane Battery (Su): The charges do only last a round unless used. However, nothing stops you from using the ability on a battery (it's a technological device that uses charges) and using that battery to charge your other items. Charges used before end of round so all is good.
Which stand a fairly decent chance of destroying said items when applied. Or are momentary charges which will last no more than a few seconds before fading away.Same with laser guns and all the other tech, once you move away from the generators, its a limited use disposable item.You do know that there are spells and class abilities to recharge items without a generator right?AH... Not really. Did you take a REALLY good look at the options.
Recharge: 20% destroy chance on BATTERIES. You cast it on the actual item and you get 1/2 charges with NO chance of destruction. Blood money + this spell = 1/2 level charges for 1d6 damage and 2 str damage and no gp cost.
Arcane Battery (Su): The charges do only last a round unless used. However, nothing stops you from using the ability on a battery (it's a technological device that uses charges) and using that battery to charge your other items. Charges used before end of round so all is good.
If a DM is allowing blood money there are bigger problems than charging stuff.
If a DM is allowing blood money there are bigger problems than charging stuff.Which stand a fairly decent chance of destroying said items when applied. Or are momentary charges which will last no more than a few seconds before fading away.Same with laser guns and all the other tech, once you move away from the generators, its a limited use disposable item.You do know that there are spells and class abilities to recharge items without a generator right?AH... Not really. Did you take a REALLY good look at the options.
Recharge: 20% destroy chance on BATTERIES. You cast it on the actual item and you get 1/2 charges with NO chance of destruction. Blood money + this spell = 1/2 level charges for 1d6 damage and 2 str damage and no gp cost.
Arcane Battery (Su): The charges do only last a round unless used. However, nothing stops you from using the ability on a battery (it's a technological device that uses charges) and using that battery to charge your other items. Charges used before end of round so all is good.
Even without it, it's 500gp and no destruction for anything other than a battery. You can take those tech items 1/2 way around the world and still use them with no problem.
Even without it, it's 500gp and no destruction for anything other than a battery. You can take those tech items 1/2 way around the world and still use them with no problem.If a DM is allowing blood money there are bigger problems than charging stuff.Which stand a fairly decent chance of destroying said items when applied. Or are momentary charges which will last no more than a few seconds before fading away.Same with laser guns and all the other tech, once you move away from the generators, its a limited use disposable item.You do know that there are spells and class abilities to recharge items without a generator right?AH... Not really. Did you take a REALLY good look at the options.
Recharge: 20% destroy chance on BATTERIES. You cast it on the actual item and you get 1/2 charges with NO chance of destruction. Blood money + this spell = 1/2 level charges for 1d6 damage and 2 str damage and no gp cost.
Arcane Battery (Su): The charges do only last a round unless used. However, nothing stops you from using the ability on a battery (it's a technological device that uses charges) and using that battery to charge your other items. Charges used before end of round so all is good.
True enough, didnt think about the recharge spell, but as mentioned, 500gp to charge it (particularly if you dont know how many charges it holds) is going to be an issue. And given I dont know of anyone that would ever allow blood money, I dont consider that a valid workaround for the cost. Not to mention its not in the prd so beyond the scope of the argument I was making (the post I was responding to was talking about all prd material being 'official' and thus allowed automatically).
And all of that is besides the point. In order to use a spell or class ability to recharge a technological item, you need the item in the first place. The gm has to place it in the world, because without the tech labs and power generators, they cannot be crafted.
A crafting laboratory is similar to a technological artifact, in that it cannot be assembled or built with current resources on Golarion. In order to craft a technological item, one must secure a laboratory for use.
....
Each lab also lists the number of charges required for a day's work on a single project—these numbers are generally rather high, and laboratories that don't draw power from a generator can consume staggering amounts of battery power. A laboratory that uses power from a generator applies the listed charges to that generator's dedicated yield for as long as work on the item continues.
So basically in order to craft tech items you need access to 2 seperate tech artifacts, neither of which are obligated to be available in a game world.
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Creative Director
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So basically in order to craft tech items you need access to 2 seperate tech artifacts, neither of which are obligated to be available in a game world.
Exactly. We did that to ensure that GMs who didn't want technology crafting in their games had in-game rules and support for their decisions, but also to make crafting technology feel different than crafting magic items. Basically, crafting tech swaps out spell or additional feat requirements for location-based requirements.
Note that in Iron Gods...
Yeah, those recharging spells really are useful for Numerian adventurers adventuring outside Numeria. Just don't target the battery and you're good to go.
My 7th-level magus, Jackal Maulsons, does this to power his Numerian dagger.
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Since I don't have any of the background text: In-universe, what keeps Numeria tech from spilling over into the rest of Golarion?
If that's not enough for your tastes, it's also fairly easy to house rule that all Numerian tech functions on a form of broadcast power that has it's broadcast point at Silvermount, so that any of the tech, power cells or no powercells, doesn't receive the signal it needs to operate when you take it more than X-hundred miles from the broadcast center (or one of the signal-boosters located elsewhere in Numeria, all stationary chunks of the fallen ship, which was itself so large as to require signal-relay-boosters built into it).
I don't believe that's any sort of canon, but is certainly one bog-simple way of making Numerian Tech not function beyond the nation's borders.
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Looking at the recently updated PRD, I'm seeing some things that I thought Paizo has said they weren't planning to do with Pathfinder - Haven't they said they weren't interested in doing cyberpunk or Sci Fi? I'm pretty sure I've seen that in the annual contest rules or something...Our gamemasters don't even want to include the psionics rules, and now we're going to wind up with laser rifles in the standard Pathfinder rules?
orcs VS Space marines?
Orc Space marines?
Sounds a bit too much like Ralph Bakshi's "Wizards" to me...
I've never seen Wizards, but everytime I read this book, I get either a Final Fantasy theme or he old Masters of the Universe theme stuck in my head for at least two hours.
HE-MAN!
Even without it, it's 500gp and no destruction for anything other than a battery. You can take those tech items 1/2 way around the world and still use them with no problem.If a DM is allowing blood money there are bigger problems than charging stuff.Which stand a fairly decent chance of destroying said items when applied. Or are momentary charges which will last no more than a few seconds before fading away.Same with laser guns and all the other tech, once you move away from the generators, its a limited use disposable item.You do know that there are spells and class abilities to recharge items without a generator right?AH... Not really. Did you take a REALLY good look at the options.
Recharge: 20% destroy chance on BATTERIES. You cast it on the actual item and you get 1/2 charges with NO chance of destruction. Blood money + this spell = 1/2 level charges for 1d6 damage and 2 str damage and no gp cost.
Arcane Battery (Su): The charges do only last a round unless used. However, nothing stops you from using the ability on a battery (it's a technological device that uses charges) and using that battery to charge your other items. Charges used before end of round so all is good.
True enough, didnt think about the recharge spell, but as mentioned, 500gp to charge it (particularly if you dont know how many charges it holds) is going to be an issue. And given I dont know of anyone that would ever allow blood money, I dont consider that a valid workaround for the cost. Not to mention its not in the prd so beyond the scope of the argument I was making (the post I was responding to was talking about all prd material being 'official' and thus allowed automatically).
Note what I was replying to. "Same with laser guns and all the other tech, once you move away from the generators, its a limited use disposable item." I was pointing out this is not true. Tech weapons don't need to stay in Numeria and there are several ways to keep using those items elsewhere. So it's really not "besides the point" I was making. My point wasn't about the GM allowing the items in the game, just correcting what you said about those items.
Thing is, while there are spells that can recharge your Arc Rifle/Railgun/Nuclear Resonator, how are you gonna use them? most classes that would actually want to use these guns aren't spellcasters.
I suppose you could multiclass to a spellcaster, which will make you less adept at using the weapon.
Or you could hope the party wizard is willing to sacrifice one or two of his spell slots to be your personal ammo caddy. And heaven help you if it's a spontaneous caster...
Thing is, while there are spells that can recharge your Arc Rifle/Railgun/Nuclear Resonator, how are you gonna use them? most classes that would actually want to use these guns aren't spellcasters.
I suppose you could multiclass to a spellcaster, which will make you less adept at using the weapon.
Or you could hope the party wizard is willing to sacrifice one or two of his spell slots to be your personal ammo caddy. And heaven help you if it's a spontaneous caster...
Touch attacks aren't too much of an issue with a caster even at 1/2 BAB. Toss in 1/2 casters and 3/4 BAB and it's not a bad deal.
The recharge spell is for bard 2, cleric 3, magus 3, sorcerer/wizard 3. A Myrmidarch magus can spellstrike through a ranged weapon attack for instance. A Archaeologist bard can rock a blaster with luck bonuses and rechanging with a 2nd level spell! The Techslinger gunslinger has Covet Charge and Charge Recycling to use grit for charges and Charge Recycling even works on items that can't normally be recharged. A warpriest can totally rock a stun baton[the stun DC = 10 + the damage dealt by the critical hit and they can use the sacred weapon damage!]. Plenty of classes can use them.