Elfguy's page

I was looking over the spells section of the rule book and it hit me... why not just combine fireball, lightning bolt and stinking cloud into a single spell! Sure, it would take 3 3rd level spell slots...

Joking aside, action economy is the issue. You are effectively getting multiple 'attacks' in the time to takes to do a single attack normally.

However, there is a couple options that are similar to what you are looking for. Hybridization Funnel, Focusing Flask, and the Grenadier Alchemist's Alchemical Weapon to name a few.

Ah, but we're not talking about alchemy bombs or extracts in this case, but actual equipment. It's still a single attack. The tradeoff is the COST. The combo item is very expensive in comparison to using the three items separately.

And your combo spell would take up a 9th level slot, not 3 third level ones if you want an accurate analogy. The "Combo spell" would still be a single spell, wouldn't it?

OK, I've been looking over the Alchemical weapons section when it hit me...is there any reason an alchemist couldn't combine a Thunderstone with a Pellet Grenade and Flash powder into a single grenade that explodes when it strikes a hard surface and combines all three effects? It would, of course, cost as much as all 3 items combined, and weigh 2 LBs (the weights of all 3 items combined) but it would be very effective against casters or ranged weapon users (Blinded, Deafened, and taking 3D6 damage)- since the Thunderstone/Flash powder combo is the actual trigger, the slow burning fuse isn't necessary, so there would be no 1-3 round delay or move action required, just throw and forget.

Can you link your urls please?

OK, sorry. Been a long time since I had to do that manually...most forums these days have autolink and editing tools...heh.

Herein lies the tale of my Samsaran Spiritualist's first (and last, probably) Psychic Duel.

Our 4th level party was asked by a high level priest to lie in wait and watch a meeting between him and someone he didn't trust, and to take action if the individual attacked him.

My spiritualist had just picked up the "instigate Psychic Duel" spell, and so, during our surprise round on the enemy (who drew a weapon to attack the priest, so as they say "it was on", I cast it, figuring it was effectively the best crowd control spell we had on hand.

Well, it turns out the mysterious stranger was a level 15 (!) Spellcaster, who failed the will save, and for the first round of combat I rolled abysmally awfully on initiative, while he rolled only a little better.

So the party was hacking away at him while he was flat footed, and his turn comes around. Cue a re-enactment of the first scene of the movie "Scanners" (Yes, THAT ONE ) and let's say my character was NOT Jack Nicolson's character) One 8th level spell slot and 16D6 untyped damage to my spiritualist, and both he and his phantom were, as they say, History.

OK, I did mention my character was a Samsaran, right? So when the priest tried to bring him back, his soul had, as per his race, already moved on.

The GM was unprepared for this (though he should have taken the possibility of the Samsaran going down into account in a level 15 VS level 4 fight) so he simply had the priest use Miracle to effectively undo the death.

Would this work? If so, what effect would it have on the Samsaran, whose spirit was reincarnated, then yanked out of its body and crammed back into its old one by a paradox-like divine equivalent of a wish?

It's an armor bonus but the effect per se isn't an armor

Well the main reason I asked that was, Phantoms have a NATURAL armor bonus...and I was wanting to make sure that Mage Armor would stack with natural armor, since he can't wear actual armor (Though there is a contradiction in this, since earlier in the phantom description it says they can use armor and weapons, and then says they can't wear armor of any kind two pages later.)

Now Phantoms can't wear physical armor due to "interferance"...but can you cast "Mage Armor" on one to give it a +4 Armor bonus to armor class?

Yes, and even if you did do this plan, at ninth level when you finally use Scorpion Style, you halve the number of attacks you can make, and a phantom has a low wisdom core, so the DC will be pathetically low.

This is a bad plan.

How would it halve its attacks? it would still get two, like all phantoms. The feats change the NATURE of its attacks, not the number. I don't see any way to increase that number beyond 2 or decrease it to 1...

(Ah, OK, using SS requires it to make a single attack...well guess a martial artist phantom is completely undoable, since styles won't work.)

Ah yes i agree , he cant perform unarmed strikes since all he got are slam natural atks.

I assume the OP will go for Feral Combat Training to use the style feats.

OK, so my Phantom will need to take:

Improved Unarmed Strike (Useless until later)
Weapon Focus ("Natural Slam attacks") (+1 to hit)
Feral combat training (Does nothing until he gets...)
Scorpion Style (enemies hit slowed to 5 feet)- Finally, IUS and FCT do something.

So until 9th level, the phantom gains nothing but a +1 to hit. Is that a correct interpretation?

Hi, I want to make a spiritualist whose phantom is a martial artist. Looking through the feats, the only effective style that a phantom (given their static unchangable stats) would qualify for would be Scorpion style.

However,

Under the description for a phantom, it says their attacks are always considered slams, even if they appear to be armed.

Does this mean that even if it takes the "Improved Unarmed Strikes" feat, its attacks are NOT "unarmed Strikes" and thus cannot trigger things like Scorpion Strike, Gorgon Strike, Medusa's wrath, etc?

Looking at the recently updated PRD, I'm seeing some things that I thought Paizo has said they weren't planning to do with Pathfinder - Haven't they said they weren't interested in doing cyberpunk or Sci Fi? I'm pretty sure I've seen that in the annual contest rules or something...Our gamemasters don't even want to include the psionics rules, and now we're going to wind up with laser rifles in the standard Pathfinder rules?

orcs VS Space marines?

Orc Space marines?

Sounds a bit too much like Ralph Bakshi's "Wizards" to me...

For low Int, High Wisdom, see Peter Sellers' character Chauncy Gardner in "Being There"

mental stats are subjective. A low int high wisdom could be roleplayed as, as has been mentioned before, like Forrest Gump, while low wis high int could be roleplayed like Mister Monk (Smart as hell, but constantly getting sidetracked by OCD or some similar mental disorder, see http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Series/Monk for further info.)

Ebon eye doesn't appear to directly affect casting, just the ability to see clearly in certain conditions...why couldn't you put this on, say, a Gunslinger or Ranger to limit their ranged attacks in bright conditions?

Most spellblights specifically affect spellcasting in some way, but Ebon Eye seems like a generic kind of curse that could hamper anyone, not just casters...if you were putting it on someone with Bestow Curse or Major Curse, I would think that, since it is the right power to be such a curse, you could put it on anyone (Most spellblights, you wouldn't bother putting them on someone like a barbarian, since they specifically mess up casting.)

This is what I get for not reading dates.

Oops...sorry, my bad...well at least if someone is searching for wand DCs, it's got a summary now...

(About the confusion on level, see the following comic): http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html

So, to summarize, Wand save DC has nothing to do with the casting stat of the wand creator.

Level 1 spell (Charm Person, Reduce Person, Ray of Enfeeblement, Etc): DC 11 (10+1+0)
Level 2 spell (Hold Person, Haunting Mists, etc): DC 13 (10+2+1)
Level 3 spell (Fireball, Deep Slumber, Vision of Hell, Etc): DC 14 (10+3+1)
Level 4 spell (Charm Monster, Sleepwalk, etc): DC 16 (10+4+2)

Since you can't make wands for higher level spells, that's pretty much it, unless you have the wizard discovery mentioned, Stafflike Wand.

Hmmm... for the alarm, I think buying just some cheap nonmasterwork dagger might be a good choice.

Now, for the command: "When this dagger is stuck in the ground or floor, call an alert if someone other than us come into range, or if the fire suddenly goes out".

I included the last bit since magical darkness defeats the visual cues... but the loss of a visual cue is itself a visual cue. And honestly, I could easily see a monster starting off a midnight ambush with magical darkness (it adds a whole lot of confusion).

The requirement 'stuck in the ground or floor' means that you can turn it on and off in a fairly straightforward manner. And it can also be used to set up alarms in various other scenarios (alarm system to catch a thief or assassin in a place you where hired to guard).

Well the reason I was using a bauble or something similar is that my Witch uses Cackling Skull in the same manner (cast on mouse and rat skulls she wears on a necklace, and a pair of bird skulls she wears as earrings)

I've always assumed that, since it doesn't give a perception for the cues, that they would bypass stealth, but not invisibility/Silence, since the spell literally has nothing to do but watch for its visual cues and listen for its audible ones.

Great stuff guys, I think the anti-theft function could be very useful. I also like the distractions and misdirections although out might be difficult to pull off with the 15 foot trigger range.

I also thought of one that could be placed on sword or other weapon that when handed to a creature would say something like, "I'm Drowssaeg. Your greatness has awoken me. Prove your valor and I shall grant thee three wishes; till then I shall speak no more."

It might work to bribe your way out of a tight spot.

Magic Mouth conditions can be as complicated as you want. So, for example, you could cast multiple ones on the same item, each programmed like so:

"The (N)'th time (Condition) happens, say (Message)"

Or, you can set the conditions so they can be turned on and off, like so (on a bauble that can be hung on a necklace, an earring that can be removed, etc):

"If you are not currently being worn and someone taps you and says "Keep watch" and someone other than the person who said "Keep watch" approaches within 10 feet before the person who said "Keep Watch" picks you up again, shout "Intruder!" over and over again."

By the way, does anyone know if Magic Mouth has to roll to spot someone using stealth? The spell triggers off of visual cues, but what is its effective perception? Will it automatically spot a non-invisible, but stealthing, Rogue performing its trigger action?

Oh, and the minimum trigger range for Magic Mouth is 45 feet (third level caster) not 15 feet, unless the caster is a Bard.

Quote:

A temporary ability score bonus should affect all of the same stats and rolls that a permanent ability score bonus does.

the way I read it, bonus spells aren't the same as rolls...

really aside from spells and temp vs perm hp there's nothing else that the difference between temp and perm matters.

Well there are skill ranks and bonus languages for +INT...though those are usually specifically covered under the item or spell description.

Ravingdork wrote:

Sorry, I was referring to this one:

seebs wrote:

Like, say you can use a power "a number of times equal to your charisma modifier". You have a +3 charisma modifier, so you can use it 3/day. You get a headband of charisma +2. You put it on, your charisma modifier is now +4, you can use the power 4/day, you use the power once, leaving 3 uses per day. Take the hat off. You still have 3 uses per day. Now put it on again, and hey, you get 4/day...

That's not allowed, so there's all this fancy temporary/permanent language. But it is absolutely not the case that bonuses "vanish" after 24 hours, and never has been.

And you honestly can't see why that still doesn't work, even with the current FAQ?

It would not work anyway, since the number of times you have used it on a particular day isn't "erased" by taking off the hat. The first use may be the one that hat allowed, but you've still used it, so putting the hat back on doesn't erase the fact that you've already used it once that day.

A really obnoxious abuse would be a +6 INT hat or something (nonstandard) - giving you 3 more skill points per level and 3 additional languages.

Let's say you're 10th level and hadn't put any ranks in knowledge skills yet...you put the headband on, wait 24 hours, apply your 30 skill points, putting at least one rank in all your knowledge skills, and add 3 languages. You then take off the headband, lose 3 languages (not necessarily the ones you just learned), and 30 skill points, keeping ranks in every knowledge skill this time.

Instant skill point and languages respec. Most items bypass this by picking the skills ahead of time, but there's always the exceptions.

Odd...I seem to remember caissons caused the bends, and those were pretty much at sea level or very close to it...I forgot to draw it in, but there is actually going to be a small vent to the surface of the cliff above from the room where the magical air supply is generated...when the door mechanism is triggered, that vent closes and then pressurization begins. So no vacuum at low tide. (IIRC, 30 feet is about the vacuum threshold at sea level for water)

I'm setting up an underwater entrance to a dungeon, and I want to set up the following trap:

Airlock Trap

However, I haven't done any physics in a long, long, time. Can anyone crunch some numbers and figure out how many atmospheres of pressure would be required to displace that 25,000 cubic feet of water at sea level?

Also, if that much pressure was suddenly released, how severe would the decompression sickness ("The Bends") Be? Actual damage, or more of a "Fort save or sickened for 1D4 minutes?"

And yes, this is a high level dungeon...this trap would kill anyone less than level 10 outright most likely.

Owls.

Everyone is fond of owls.

( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8el_P4yvfc )

In summary, it's the most effective low level damage spell there is.

1: There is no defense except magic resistance or a shield spell; it's guaranteed damage against most targets.
2: You can target multiple creatures if necessary. For example, if a coven of hags is performing a ritual, you can hit a number of them and force them all to make concentration checks to interrupt the ritual.
3: It's first level. No other offensive first level spell works just as well against a 10HD enemy as it does against a 1HD enemy. Anything that allows a save will do less damage on average because of their better saves, and many (Color Spray, Sleep, hypnotism) literally have no effect at all on anything tough enough to pose a challenge to level 10 characters.

Mostly good stuff. The only thing I'd change would be the skilled labour benefit. As written it looks good for something like an iron golem, but what about a tiny animated object?

I'd let the construct or mindless undead creature act as a team, granting a bonus to its earning check of CR x 3. That should account for most things.

So, perhaps, add a paragraph or two like this?

"The 5/3 rule assumes a medium sized construct. It gets a bit more complicated with constructs that are smaller and larger. For each size class above medium, a construct can produce 1 more Labor per day, but 1 less Goods (minimum of 1 per day) due to its greater strength and lower dexterity. For each size class below medium, the construct can produce 1 less labor (minimum 1 per day), or 1 more goods due to its lower strength but higher dexterity. Also, the GM should make a ruling on whether a construct could perform a particular type of task at all. For example, a Tiny animated object would be completely unable to build a castle wall, while a Huge variant of an Iron Golem would be unable to install the interior doors of a building with medium sized door openings after the walls are finished, because it couldn't get inside to do so."

and

"Large groups of constructs (or mindless undead like skeletons) start to get in each other's way beyond 2 or 3 working at the same task. Treat the extras as assisting (Assuming the person giving them commands told them to do so by, for example, instructing specific individuals to help the others by moving raw materials, holding items in place where needed while they are worked on, giving the others a boost to reach high places, operating block-and-tackle systems for truly high work, and so on.) For the first "Assistant" construct or mindless undead, add 5 to the effective roll on the Earned Capital checks, and add another +5 for each doubling of the assistants on that particular task (+10 for 2 assistants, +15 for 4 assistants, +20 for 8 assistants, and so on. Assistant constructs/undead give this bonus to each of the primary workers (1 to 3) working at that particular task.)"

And, finally, after the "consequences of using constructs" bit

"Mindless undead performing such tasks in a populated area are likely to cause even more extreme reactions due to the almost universal dislike for undead. It doesn't take an oracle to predict the advent of pitchforks and torches in the future if a horde of undead are apparently infesting a building under construction."

Arcane Sight too.

Arcane sight would just let you see that he had a spell on him, and possibly the approximate level (0-2) Could be Shield, could be Mage Armor, could be Disguise Self, could be any of dozens of other spells.

Or when there's this annoying enemy wizard. You can see he doesn't have Shield up. You could ready a MM to interrupt his spellcasting.

Slight correction: you can't "See" if someone has shield up, it's invisible. The only way you can tell if someone has shield up is metagaming (knowing you would have hit him unless he had shield up) or spellcraft when he cast it, or seeing your magic missiles fizzle when you tried to hit him.

IIRC, Bite often has extra side effects (Canine bite + trip, Snake Bite+Constrict or Bite+Poison, Cat Bite+Rake) and this may be part of it. Also note you can take it again to raise the die type by 1 size catagory. I see no reason why you couldn't homebrew it like this:

1 RP = 2 catagories smaller
2 RP = 1 Catagory smaller
4 RP = Normal for size
6 RP = +1 size catagory

Take a look also at Goblins...the alternate trait "Hard Head, Big Teeth" - Goblins are small, and that one gives them a D4 bite instead of a 1D2 bite like the normal bite or 1D3 for the double bite.

How would some of these work with this whole concept if quicksand? Is it assumed that burrowing creatures would do just fine while swimming won't? How would the listed land dwelling creatures function other than using boats or flying?

Remember that Quicksand doesn't work in real life like it does in Hollywood. The reason animals sink in quicksand is that they panic and struggle, effectively pushing themselves under and drowning. You could assume that in a fantasy setting, burrowing creatures should have fewer problems, and swimming creatures would have had to magically adapt to be able to breathe quicksand (no easy feat, evolutionarily speaking) or be the type of creature that breathes air and surfaces to do so. Elementals like Xorn and creatures that live in mud like mudmen would have no trouble, since quicksand is effectively mud as far as they're concerned. Figure that swimming creatures that live in sand (Sandsharks and so on) would be fine. Maybe make a few creatures adapted to quicksand with Crystal Sight (like the Stone Oracle Revelation) to allow them to see their prey even through quicksand.

Zhayne wrote:

Create Mr. Pitt wrote:

Alignment: The Lazy Gamers Morality. Morality doesn't exist on a grid and, even if objectively measurable (which I am already completely skeptical of) is not something that can be adjudicated by a GM. Even then, morality usually shifts based on the very particularized facts of a situation. The alignment system is the lazy part, in fact, the need to conform to alignment usually leads to characters acting out to fit a dumb game imposed moral stereotype than it would without an alignment system.

AMEN, BROTHER.

So. Much. This.

How did Lex Luthor put it in Smallville?

Becoming Evil isn't a door you step through...it's a journey.

In any case, the only real excuse for a CN character is a rogue or mercenary. It's really hard to not take sides in the battle between good and evil, and sometimes "Not taking a side" is a side.

After all, There are evil actions...but the alignment system doesn't take into account evil INACTION. Can your character stand back and watch as a helpless NPC is killed by an orc without trying to help?

Or, to use an unusual example, if you used Sense Motive on two individuals fighting, you might notice if they were deliberately using the flat of their blades (indicating that they might just be sparring for practice) or if they were obviously angry at each other, or if one looked desperate and overmatched, and so on...

I want to be fair, and one of the PCs has built himself an Iron Golem, and wants to use it to help him build a castle outside of town.

How does this sound as a house rule for this kind of thing?

Using Constructs to perform labor or produce goods:

Unlike Followers, Constructs are unaffected by Leadership scores and typically just do what they are told with no particular inspiration or initiative. On the plus side, they are capable of working without rest all day and night if necessary.

The Downtime system assumes that the player character is the one trading or working for goods, influence, Labor, or magic. If the player character has access to a construct or other source of “Free” labor that can work 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, each such construct can produce 5 points of labor or goods per day, provided they have a skill or talent appropriate to that labor or good. If the construct has no skill but instead simply does what it is told, it can only produce 3 points of goods or labor per day, and should be given careful instructions on what to do when a task is completed in order to avoid the “Sorcerer's Apprentice” effect, where the construct continues with a task long after it ceases to be beneficial and perhaps even becomes dangerous or harmful.

This is the equivalent of taking a 10 on a skill check 3 times per day for the unskilled construct and rolling and assuming an average roll of 15-20 for the skilled construct, adjusting for the skilled construct's extra skill. Constructs cannot produce Influence or Magic capital. Also, Constructs perform the actual labor or produce the actual goods themselves, instead of bargaining with other NPCs. Unless instructed to do so, constructs will not take the initiative to perform repairs or maintenance if some event occurs that impedes their work.

For example, a construct ordered to dig a moat around a castle won't stop to repair or replace its shovel or other digging tools if it is broken unless it was instructed to do so, and will continue to attempt to dig the moat without tools, reducing its labor output significantly, it will also continue to work if it rains, possibly becoming mired in mud and risking collapse of the moat, and if it completes the moat and receives no further instructions, it will continue to make the moat deeper and (unless it has engineering skill and has been instructed to reinforce the sides of the moat) the moat may collapse by being made too deep, possibly burying the construct in the process.

Using a construct for large construction projects may cause some resentment among local workers who may see it as stealing their rightful wages, and may retaliate by raising the price of influence capital, or even sabotaging the work.

For example, a bunch of ditch diggers may sneak in at night and fill in parts of the moat while the construct is busy working in another area, possibly un-doing days worth of the construct's efforts, or even hire a gang of thugs to attack and damage or destroy the construct. The PC may find himself being snubbed by local merchants, or worse, charged excessive prices for everything they purchase.

Players should consider carefully what sorts of tasks to have a construct perform, perhaps limiting it to particularly dirty or dangerous tasks that the locals wouldn't want to do anyway, or limit it to working out of sight of the locals, doing interior and underground work for example. (Then again, The PC could find himself confronted by some surly dwarf miners, informing them that they know the sound of mining operations when they hear it and why not hire some REAL miners instead of “handing a pick to some rusty tin can of a golem.”)

Is there a reason the floor has to be iron? Is there a reason the floor has to be a horizontal wall of iron? I'm honestly curious because I don't see why you wouldn't just use stone shape to make the new floor. If you use wall of iron, then you have to figure out how to make a hole through it for stairs (assuming you want them). If you use stone shape, you just leave a hole in the floor.

Well I was also planning to rig the room with an electricity trap...thus the need for a metal floor.

At the risk of being accused of practicing necromancy, most of the value in forged iron (like your swords example) is not the metal itself, it's the labor involved in making it. Iron is cheap, melting it down and forging it into useful items is not.

The real reason it can't be sold should be the "too many impurities to make it worth trying to melt down and reforge" - in other words, it's not really Iron, it's 90% Dross, and would require far more effort than it was worth to smelt it and remove the usable iron. And even in a metal-poor area where the effort could be theoretically worth it, it would still require a lot more effort than most smiths would be willing to put up with.

Of course, it would still make a yummy treat for a pack of rust monsters.

If your ceiling is only 20' high then form a wall which is 20' high and 70' of whatever long.

Except that it needs to wind up 10 feet up, horizontally between the floor and ceiling to act as a floor for another level. In order to be 20 feet tall, you would need to rotate it on some sort of axis rather than toppling it, since it would just wind up on the floor and not merged with the walls 10 feet above the floor.

The "Cast and topple" only works if the ceiling is higher than the width of the span you want to cross, and there is a convenient ledge for it to land on at the other side. The ability to cast it so it merges with the wall at the far side is what I was asking about (And not casting it in the air above opponents, since that would, as noted in the first reply, make dropping it on people too easy.

What my wizard wants to do is make an iron floor to split a 20 foot tall floor of his tower into two 10 foot tall floors, and since the iron would be merged in the stone walls around the edge of the tower, it would also increase the tower's overall stability and make it less likely to fall over if some ginormous monster leans up against the tower. Cast-and-topple won't work, since the tower is 70 feet wide on the inside, and as I said, the ceiling is only 20 feet, and of course that wouldn't add the extra structural strength he's after.

Dang Ninjas.

Think of it this way: It says you can double the area by halving the thickness. It is reasonable to assume that the reverse would also be true, halving the area by doubling the thickness. So a wizard who could cast a wall of iron five feet high, 80 feet wide and 4 inches thick (16th level caster):

Width | Height
4" | 60" (5 feet)
8" | 30"
16" | 15"
32" | 7.5"
64" | 3.25" (5 feet 4 inches thick, 3.25 inches "Tall" = Horizontal effect)

Why couldn't a wizard cast a Wall of Iron horizontally, to act as a bridge over a chasm, or as a floor or ledge merged with a wall or cliffside (or upward at an angle to act as a ramp?) I know the spell assumes you're using it to act as a barrier between you and a monster, or to drop on someone, but I see no reason why you couldn't use it for something more utilitarian.

Elfguy wrote:

Potions are nice and all, but there is one variation that don't seem to have a direct rule: generic Philters.

What the heck is a "generic philter"? And why do we care?

Any philter that isn't a "Philter of Love" - which is effectively a level 5 potion (Due to the permanency) with an offensive, permanent effect, would be considered "Generic" because, like the regular potions in the potion making rules, can be made for just about every spell of level 3 or less in the game..

So you are saying you couldn't find some use for, say, a "Potion of Hold Person" or "Potion of Slow" that could be mixed into someone's dinner?

And here I thought roleplayers all had imagination...guess not.

Potions are nice and all, but there is one variation that don't seem to have a direct rule: generic Philters.

Also, there are some contradictions in the rules for brewing potions:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magicItems/magicItemCreation.html - Says it takes 1 day.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/feats.html#_brew-potion - Says 2 hours for low cost (250GP or less) potions, or 1 day per 1000GP for expensive ones.

Currently there is only one "Philter" listed, and it's treated as a Wondrous Item rather than the potionlike item it actually is.

The special "Philter of Love" is fine as far as it goes, but it makes no sense that it couldn't be brewed as a potion in a weaker form. The main issue is that it's a Charm Monster effect with permanency and no save, and normal potions are limited to level 3 or lower.

A Generic Philter would be a highly concentrated potion that can be mixed into food or drink like an ingested poison (Would replace the normal save with Fortitude) - because it's more concentrated, it would have multiple doses in a bottle (Say, 5 doses, at 5 times the cost in ingredients and time) and could be produced in powdered form so it could be mixed into a spice like salt, pepper, ginger, etc. Philters would usually be offensive effects like Charm, Sleep, Reduce Person, etc, though there is no reason you couldn't put a helpful effect in your pepper shaker to make it seem harmless. (Insert "Red Bull Gives you Wings" joke here)

Just like a normal potion, the brewer defines the effects. For example, a Charm Person Philter could be "set" to charm the consumer to the first creature it sees, or to the brewer of the philter (though that would be less useful, since it makes it harder for the brewer's allies to use.)

And how about magical poisons? They could work by concentrating the potion even more, creating a poison that casts a spell on the victim instead of having a "normal" poison effect. Considering some of the nasty things poison can do to a character (Draining constitution or other stats for example), casting a spell on them is comparatively mild. Like brewing all potions, magical poison can be quite expensive. They would substitute the usual save for a FORT save (this would make Philters just an ingested version of a magical poison.)

It also depends if you want to say they make all three at once or if it is just making the grenade when you already have a thunderstone and a thing of flash powder. If you're just making a new grenade with existing materials, then +4. If you want to go for a 3-in-1 crafting effort, maybe +10.

Well the idea is to take the raw materials that would normally go into making a thunderstone, a grenade of whatever type, and a dose of flash powder, remove the fuse that normally goes in the grenade and replace it with the flash powder and the thunderstone, with the gunpowder and pellets embedded in the thunderstone. Since you're adding 2 LBS of materials up, the whole is heavier, so it's a single item with the components of three.

OK, my alchemist wants to try making these for the party's rogue, who is jealous of his bomb class feature and has taken to carrying around kegs of gunpowder, much to the nervousness of the rest of the party:

Thunderflash (Impact triggered) Grenades:

This is simply any of the normal grenades (Fuse or pellet) fitted with a Thunderstone and flash powder instead of a fuse to ignite the charge.

When the grenade strikes a hard target (or is struck) the Thunderstone, flash powder, and the grenade's normal effects go off.

10 foot radius. DC 15 Reflex halves damage, Fort 13 save or be blinded for 1 round, Fort 15 save or deafened for 1 hour. (yes, basically it is a medieval flash-bang that goes off on impact.)

One new type of grenade: substituting glass shards for the pellets used in pellet grenades. The shards do slash damage instead of pierce damage.

The augmented grenades are heavier (2 LB each) and would be thrown like a splash weapon with a 10 foot radius and a range increment of 20 feet.

Add 80GP to the base cost of the grenade for the appropriate ingredients. Crafting it is a DC 25 Craft (Alchemy) check.

Since this combines 3 alchemy items into one item, would that raise the DC of the crafting check (Maybe +1 per item added, for a total of 27 instead?) or would it be (as I computed it to be) the DC of the highest DC item incorporated?

It's even worse than that. Extracts also can ONLY affect the Alchemist, with the exception of alchemists who have the "infusion" discovery (and then the effect is as if the drinker was the alchemist) - so even if an alchemist COULD prepare it, he couldn't use it, because it couldn't affect anyone but HIM.

whoever added this spell to the Alchemist spell list didn't do their homework at all.

In addition, the mini-description says "As Magic Jar, but limited to line of sight" - but it is clearly NOT like Magic Jar, because the target is "one WILLING creature" and not "one creature" - and a Saving throw is listed and says "See text" but there is no mention of saving throws in the text. The entire spell is unworkable and of questionable utility.

Also, Alchemists can brew POTIONS of things in their extract lists, so they could spend the money and time to brew an OIL of the communal spells, allowing them to spread the duration around by proportion of the oil spread on each recipient.

Takes longer to prepare, and a lot more expensive, but if the party wants that Communal Protection from Arrows effect to go after Robbing Hood and his Merry Band of Orcish Archers, you can probably get them to donate to the cause.

You would have to declare you're closing your eyes (I agree it would be a free action) until your next action. You would thus be affected as if blinded (-2 AC, No Dex bonus to AC, -4 to Dex and Str skill checks, 50% miss chance)is, overall, a bigger penalty than the spell so, by all means, shut your eyes and keep them shut while swinging at my wizard. (I would also rule that you would get no attack of opportunity if the wizard takes a move action to move 30 feet instead of a 5 foot step before casting)

And any enemy rogue would have a field day with you.

Have the antipaladin use a Reduce person scroll or magic item...or use Animal Growth on the bat. Problem solved.

Since it is a level 10 minimum discovery, it may make more sense to have THOSE dopplegangers be level 1 with no magical abilities (Just add the following text to the description)

"Doppleganger Simulacra are fragile and incapable of using the alchemist's personal magical energy. Thus, they are level one, and cannot create Extracts, Bombs, or Mutagens ,though they could use Extracts mixed by the alchemist, provided the alchemist has the "Imbue" discovery."

Then add a new discovery, like so:

Duplicate Body (Su): The alchemist learns how to create an exact copy of his body, a soulless duplicate, into which he can project his consciousness. As a full-round action, he may shift his consciousness from his current body to his duplicate body, which must be on the same plane as the alchemist at the time of the transfer. While in a duplicate body, he has 2 temporary negative levels that expire at a rate of 1 per day (the DC for the save to recover them is 10 if there are any penalties due to other effects) and are applied each time he transfers into a duplicate body (but not on returning to his original body, and they are not cumulative, it is a total of 2 negative levels each time he enters a duplicate body.) If killed in a duplicate while on the same plane as his original body, he transfers to his own body automatically; if killed in his duplicate while it is on another plane, his soul will return to his body after 1D4 days and gain 2 temporary negative levels (DC 20 to get rid of these, due to the trauma of dying in a duplicate body.) If killed in his own body, he is dead. Unused duplicates (including his abandoned original body) appear to be lifeless corpses, though they do not decay. Creating a duplicate costs 10,000 gp in alchemical materials and requires 1 month to grow. The alchemist can create a total number of duplicate bodies equal to 1 plus his INT modifier Any additional duplicates made cause one of his other duplicate bodies to become permanently inert. An alchemist must be at least 16th level and must have the Doppleganger Simulacrum discovery before selecting this discovery. The created Dupicate is a creature, not a supernatural effect.

Since it is your first time: Rogue

And here we thought he was going to be an expert with Makeup and play a Rouge...must be a bard prestige class?

Kindly note that you can't make a 'young duplicate' of something, including yourself.

So if you're venerable and you make a simulacarum, it's a duplicate of you. You don't get to choose to make a young version, that's not part of the spell.

And it already gets your equivalent mental stats.

You're essentially a ride along directing it on what to do, but it has none of your actual power. Just because you're steering the car doesn't mean the car is suddenly 3 levels higher.

You are misreading something I think. I don't think anyone said anything about making "Young" versions of yourself (and alchemists can become immortal anyway once they hit level 20 by taking that Grand Discovery as their level 20 pick.)

To refute your car analogy, riding that car doesn't suddenly make YOU 5-10 levels LOWER, either. The Alchemist is still an alchemist, and its HIS mind in a copy of HIS body, not an imperfect "Fake soul" like with the Simulacrum spell. There is no mechanic in the discovery description that says you suddenly become a level zero chump and forget how to mix a martini because your mind is in another body.

Compare it with Magic Jar. It's essentially the same effect with dimension-wide range, and a much longer effective casting time. I'd raise the minimum level of the ability and probably also increase the cost to make the "Spare body" and limit the maximum number of dopplegangers you can have lying around, but losing more levels than you lose from dying and being raised makes zero sense.

The Alchemist would, however, need to buy a new supply of alchemical ingredients and gear to use while occupying the Doppleganger. And if he IS leaving his body somewhere, he had better make sure it's well guarded.

Shiney wrote:

We went by the D20PFSRD, not the PRD.

Exact same text. (for once)

Shiney wrote:

Soooo, yeah. I'm a lich. CN, and CG this upcoming session. Y.M.M.V., I'm just trying to show that this is something that you really can go any direction on, as that seemed to be not present in this thread yet.

You did catch that you're not a valid target for atonement, yes?

You're saying he can't touch himself?

Hmn...no post editing capability? Ah well...After a bit more research, it looks like insufficient research was done before this ability was created.

The reason a Simulacrum is half the level of the original is that it is NOT the original. The "soul" animating it is an imperfect copy, not the original mind.

Since this ability is the actual soul of the alchemist occupying a duplicate of its original body, I see no justification for the "Half level" thing at all. Temporary negative levels would make some sense (the character didn't die (yet) and it's not a false copy of the mind but the actual original, but it makes sense that swapping bodies might take some adjustment time)

In its mechanic, it seems far more similar to Magic Jar or, as I mentioned, a permanent version of Twin Form than an actual Simulacrum spell. It should probably be more expensive (one clue is that the given cost is identical to the "Clone" spell, though that spell is more like a raise dead.) The minimum discovery level for this should be higher (probably 14 instead of 10, to bring it more in line with Magic Jar.)

To curb the "I'm a lich...with alchemy!" factor, I'd limit the maximum number of active Doppleganger bodies to 1 plus the alchemist's INT modifier. That way, you don't have alchemists littering the campaign map with a new doppleganger body every week.