Just need to point this out, Expeditious Retreat is min/level. You'd want Longstrider for hour/level, but it's only +10 feet and Inquisitors don't get it.
Plus, it's only minute per level. My Inquisitor is rocking +30 movement speed from Expeditious Retreat (hour/level), Scent from Bloodhound (hour/level), Darkvision (Vampire, but available to nearly every race in the books), and yeah you get the picture.
Whoops, you're right. I dunno how I missed that.
Still...same duration as Animal Focus, and usable more times a day.
Also at 8th level a Hunter can have one animal focus on for as long as she likes. taking on an additional focus for one minute per level per day. If she has no pet she can have two constant foci. in addition to the short period one.Just need to point this out, Expeditious Retreat is min/level. You'd want Longstrider for hour/level, but it's only +10 feet and Inquisitors don't get it.
Plus, it's only minute per level. My Inquisitor is rocking +30 movement speed from Expeditious Retreat (hour/level), Scent from Bloodhound (hour/level), Darkvision (Vampire, but available to nearly every race in the books), and yeah you get the picture.
?
I think you misread it. The ANIMAL COMPANION'S second focus likewise doesn't take up duration.
And if the Hunter has no pet, he's kinda gimped.
Yes. As with the COMPANION'S previous aspect, the second one does not count against the minutes per day.
The Hunter can select two aspects, both for himself and the AC.
The AC's are still infinite. The Hunter's are still finite.
You only get an infinite Animal Focus if your companion is dead, or you are a Feral Hunter (which, tellingly, never gets a second Animal Focus. It would be kind of a raw deal if he actually had a worse Animal Focus for just that trade-off).
Yes. As with the COMPANION'S previous aspect, the second one does not count against the minutes per day.
The Hunter can select two aspects, both for himself and the AC.
The AC's are still infinite. The Hunter's are still finite.
You only get an infinite Animal Focus if your companion is dead, or you are a Feral Hunter (which, tellingly, never gets a second Animal Focus. It would be kind of a raw deal if he actually had a worse Animal Focus for just that trade-off).
Where does it say the Feral Hunter doesn't get a second animal focus? It seems thay at level 8 a feral hunter has 2 permanent and 2 temporary foci.
Yar. I won't deny it has some interesting features now. I think I'd have to give it the "Most Improved" award.
So. I need help with two things
1)Sell me on Hunter over Sacred Huntsman. Cuz right now every time I try to do something with the former I end up just looking at the latter
2) Any tricks you can do with feral hunter's animal focus? Kind of cool thematically but I'm not getting any amazing tricks off the top of my head.
Feral Hunter (which, tellingly, never gets a second Animal Focus.
This one got me at first too, but "Second Animal Focus" is actually an entirely different and separate class feature for some reason, rather than the normal "Gain another X of Y at level Z".
Yep.
So. I need help with two things
1)Sell me on Hunter over Sacred Huntsman. Cuz right now every time I try to do something with the former I end up just looking at the latter
2) Any tricks you can do with feral hunter's animal focus? Kind of cool thematically but I'm not getting any amazing tricks off the top of my head.
Feral Hunter (which, tellingly, never gets a second Animal Focus.This one got me at first too, but "Second Animal Focus" is actually an entirely different and separate class feature for some reason, rather than the normal "Gain another X of Y at level Z".
Remember any feature that is not mentioned to be replaced or modified of the main class, remains for the class archetype.
Even though the Feral Hunter is very interesting version, and I decide to give it a go, I have noted that Feral Hunter entry is badly written with plenty typo, as if the editor did not even bother checking the Feral Hunter against the main Hunter class.
In the Feral Hunter entry they make reference to feature in the main Hunter that does not even exit such as "master of the wild".
With the change from "animal focus" to "feral focus" (which is essentially the same except for no limit on duration and animal companion part stripped off as it does not make sense seeing Feral Hunter does not have an animal companion), they did not change the "capstone" and the "second animal focus" to be "feral focus" based as these two were not replaced in the entry of Feral Hunter, so remain.
What still remained from the main Hunter are these features that remain the same:
- Hit Dice, Alignment, Starting Wealth
- Skills
- Weapon and armour proficiencies
- Spells
- Orisons
- Chaotic, Evil, Good and Lawful Spells
- Track
- Teamwork Feat - only 3rd level remained, to use with summoned animals
- Woodland Stride
- Swift Tracker
- One with the Wild - though strip animal companion out, make no sense, but rest does from the current aspect chosen.
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So. I need help with two things
1)Sell me on Hunter over Sacred Huntsman. Cuz right now every time I try to do something with the former I end up just looking at the latter
Your animal companion never gets either Skirmisher Tricks or Animal Focus as a Sacred Huntsman. Or bonus tricks. So...either the animal is a lot less effective or a bit less effective and costs a lot of gold more.
It does give you Bane in exchange, and the Inquisitor list in exchange for the Hunter one (I'd say that's a fair trade), and gains the Inquisitor out-of-combat stuff instead of the Hunter set.
In short, it's probably better personally, but you give up everything that makes a Hunter's Animal Companion better than anyone else's. So...it depends on what you're going for.
Actually you get both Skirmisher Tricks and Animal Focus. The Huntsman's Animal Companion feature functions exactly like the hunter's (which is where the line about skirmisher tricks is) and the Huntsman's Animal Focus says its functionality is the same as well.
It's largely Inquisitor spell list + Inquisitor OOC skils + Domain vs Druid/Ranger spell list + Hunter OOC stuff + bonus tricks.
I've been having fun with the fact that it doesn't have the Divine Hunter's domain restrictions so you can take Animal Domain for two companions.
It also lacks the Packmaster's language on restricting teamwork feats and animal focus, but I'm still not entirely sure if that means the Inquisitor can spread them around.
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Actually you get both Skirmisher Tricks and Animal Focus. The Huntsman's Animal Companion feature functions exactly like the hunter's (which is where the line about skirmisher tricks is) and the Huntsman's Animal Focus says its functionality is the same as well.
You're right about the first, looking at it again. I'm pretty sure you're right about the second as well, though the language is confusing on a once-over. You only gain one Aniumal Focus instead of two between 8th and 16th level, though.
I've been having fun with the fact that it doesn't have the Divine Hunter's domain restrictions so you can take Animal Domain for two companions.
It also lacks the Packmaster's language on restricting teamwork feats and animal focus, but I'm still not entirely sure if that means the Inquisitor can spread them around.
I'd bet money this isn't intentional, and will be erattaed shortly. Nor would I (or most others I suspect) allow it as a GM.
You're right about the first, looking at it again. I'm not sure at all if you're right about the second...the language is a little dicey.
Possibly, but the Huntsman's second focus feature has language about this focus not costing extra minutes per day on the companion.
Admittedly that could be a lazy copy-paste, but I don't think so.
I'd bet money this isn't intentional, and will be erattaed shortly. Now would I (or most others I suspect) allow it as a GM.
Almost undoubtably, but it's still nifty.
This is actually demonstrably untrue (unless there's a new feat I've overlooked). Boon Companion won't give the Ranger's animal companion the ability to utilize all of his Teamwork feats, and it won't give it the ability to basically graft the equivalent of unlimited Ranger spellcasting directly onto the pet. The Ranger also has a vastly more limited list of pets to choose from, while the Hunter gets the full druid list. During the first 5 levels of play in particular, the Hunter has the capacity to be much, much stronger in melee combat than the Ranger, and has unique archery options unavailable to most Ranger builds as well, like 1st level flight via the Roc and Undersized Mount.
The Ranger will make a flat out better archer or meleer, and with a one feat investment, his animal companion will be just as good as the Hunter's.
I have no idea how melee is going to pan out (since the animal companion is going to be a big help with providing flanking bonuses and so on), but to say that the Hunter is going to outclass the Ranger in ranged combat is comically wrong. The Hunter has exactly one buff (Aspect of the Falcon) to hit, which doesn't scale at all with higher levels. It is a 3/4 BAB class with no class features which augment his to-hit bonuses in ranged combat. It doesn't get the early access to great feats (Improved Precise Shot, for example) the Ranger gets.
I know you are in love with the class, but you are trying way to hard to prop it up as super-duper-good. In melee, you may well be right. At ranged combat... not so much. And of course the iconic Hunter is a ranged character, which continues the proud tradition of Paizo iconics choosing poorly in their class options. ^^
After reading over the class, it's apparent that the best contribution the hunter has to offer from an optimization standpoint is a 1 level dip going into a build with an animal companion already. A single level nabs skirmisher tricks and a constant animal focus on your companion plus 2 good saves, gravity bow and/or lead blades, 1/day animal focus on yourself and wild empathy. Three levels is also cool, giving you 2 free teamwork feats (or 1 and precise shot) and automatic sharing of feats. After that, though, the class dips off a lot in what it has to offer. It's just a shame the class abilities for the later levels are so bland.
Cool build I could see:
Hunter 1/Lunar Oracle 18/Mammoth Rider 1. Lose 2 caster levels, but your companion will be pretty amazing. Entangled and Shaken conditions inflicted from the companion via skirmisher tricks + dazing spell goodness from the caster could be very nasty.
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The sad thing is the Hunter would actually be a great class . . . if the Druid didn't exist. And technically the fact that it's mechanically weaker is a good thing for balance's sake. It's not like it's terrible - I'd still rank it a solid Tier 3 alongside Paladins and Bards.
But the problem is the Druid DOES exist, so I struggle to find a reason you'd choose a Hunter instead.
Need clarification on Hunter feature "Nature Training" with respect to Feral Hunter, which still remains as nothing of Feral Hunter replaces this feature. To me it seems to be entirely focussed on animal companion, which Feral Hunter does not have.
I think the designer of Hunter class should look at Feral Hunter again and provide an errata document containing corrections to editing mistakes that took place with initial release of the Advance Class Guide.
You learn the skirmisher tricks as normal tricks, so I'd learn towards unlimited personally. Strong? Yes, but the hunter's entire gimmick is having a really strong pet.
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"Overpowered"?
None of these tricks are good enough that they require a per day limit, at all. That's why the Skirmisher Ranger is so bad.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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The way it's written, it says "teach your companion" the tricks. I know a lot of people are suggesting that that means the companion is the one doing everything, but I don't see it that way. I see it as you teach the companion to do whatever is required to pull off the tricks, which might include giving the HUNTER some ability. And then there are some others that just don't work for the companion at all.
Let's see some examples here:
Chameleon Step (Ex): The Ranger can move up to twice his speed as a move action. The Ranger does not take any penalty on Stealth checks for movement during this move. This move provokes attacks of opportunity as normal.
This trick could either be seen as not applying to companions at all because it says "The Ranger" or it could be seen as an ability that the companion gets to use instead. So either it's not a legal option for the Hunter to teach to her companion, or she teaches her companion to use a Move action to move twice her speed, taking no penalties on Stealth, unlimited times per day. if you CAN teach this to your companion, it's EXTREMELY powerful, essentially doubling your companion's speed at all times.
Heel (Ex): The Ranger can use this trick as an immediate action when his animal companion moves. When the companion moves, the square it starts out in is not considered threatened by any opponent it can see, and therefore visible enemies do not get attacks of opportunity against it when it moves from that square. The companion must end this movement in a square adjacent to the Ranger. The animal companion must be able to see and hear the Ranger to take this movement.
This is an obvious one, the Hunter can teach her companion to essentially move away from an enemy without provoking AOOs, unlimited times per day. This is powerful, but not broken or anything since it takes an immediate action from the Hunter, taking up his Swift action next round.
Sic 'Em (Ex): The Ranger can use this trick as a swift action. His animal companion makes one melee attack against an adjacent creature. The animal companion must be able to see and hear the Ranger to make this attack.
This is why the Hunter doesn't want to have to use Heel. With this ability, he can use a Swift action to give his companion an attack that doesn't require ANY of the companion's actions. This is really REALLY excellent, and seems like it's one of the best options to be gained from this class ability. In fact, this one to me seems overpowered, and is the main reason I'm making a Hunter for PFS.
Tangling Attack (Ex): The Ranger can use this attack as a free action when he makes an attack. If the attack hits, the target is entangled for 1 round.
What about this one? Can it be taught to your companion, to let them entangle a creature every time they hit one? Doesn't sound broken, you say? Well, if you say that one's okay, then you have to allow the following one, since it has the same text:
Surprise Shift (Ex): The Ranger can move 5 feet as a swift action. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity and does not count as a 5-foot step.
Now, you can use the animal companion's Swift action to move an extra 5 feet every round (no AOOs), AND use the Hunter's Swift action to have it attack an extra time. Are you seeing how these can be extremely powerful, yet?
So basically, I think the devs need to tell us exactly which Skirmisher tricks we can teach our companions, otherwise the Hunter is going to truly replace both the druid and the ranger. And perhaps the summoner. Because the companion is going to become a GOD in combat.
I like animal domain sacred huntsman for double companions without the painful penalties Packmaster has (seriously the idea behind packmaster is cool but half level animal companions are useless and quarter level companions are a liability).
Divine Hunter I feel like is entirely eclipsed by Sacred Huntsman unless you really need druid spells.
The way it's written, it says "teach your companion" the tricks. I know a lot of people are suggesting that that means the companion is the one doing everything, but I don't see it that way. I see it as you teach the companion to do whatever is required to pull off the tricks, which might include giving the HUNTER some ability. And then there are some others that just don't work for the companion at all.
That is exactly how I read it.
Is it just me or does Animal Focus seem to be missing something? I feel it's mostly due to you being unable to get a third Animal Focus. That dead level at level 16 is staring me right in the face and it feels like the missing third animal focus should fit perfectly there.
So, in reference to a melee hunter build... Clearly you'll want to pick up Pack Flanking to get that awesome +4 flanking bonus at all times. The only drawback is Combat Expertise as the prerequisite... What would you guys suggest for a followup feat to work with Combat Expertise, if anything? Or should one just swallow the burned feat for a pretty awesome benefit?
I mean you could pick an Improved Combat Maneuver feat, but with only 3/4 BAB I'm not sure the hunter is really the class to waste feats on combat maneuvers.
Pack Flanking (Teamwork)
You and your companion creature are adept at fighting together against foes.
Prerequisites: Int 13, Combat Expertise, ability to acquire an animal companion.
Benefit: When you and your companion creature have this feat, your companion creature is adjacent to you or sharing your square, and you both threaten the same opponent, you are considered to be flanking that
opponent, regardless of your actual positioning.
Normal: You must be positioned opposite an ally to flank an opponent.
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This is actually demonstrably untrue (unless there's a new feat I've overlooked). Boon Companion won't give the Ranger's animal companion the ability to utilize all of his Teamwork feats, and it won't give it the ability to basically graft the equivalent of unlimited Ranger spellcasting directly onto the pet. The Ranger also has a vastly more limited list of pets to choose from, while the Hunter gets the full druid list. During the first 5 levels of play in particular, the Hunter has the capacity to be much, much stronger in melee combat than the Ranger, and has unique archery options unavailable to most Ranger builds as well, like 1st level flight via the Roc and Undersized Mount.
The Ranger will make a flat out better archer or meleer, and with a one feat investment, his animal companion will be just as good as the Hunter's.I have no idea how melee is going to pan out (since the animal companion is going to be a big help with providing flanking bonuses and so on), but to say that the Hunter is going to outclass the Ranger in ranged combat is comically wrong. The Hunter has exactly one buff (Aspect of the Falcon) to hit, which doesn't scale at all with higher levels. It is a 3/4 BAB class with no class features which augment his to-hit bonuses in ranged combat. It doesn't get the early access to great feats (Improved Precise Shot, for example) the Ranger gets.
I know you are in love with the class, but you are trying way to hard to prop it up as super-duper-good. In melee, you may well be right. At ranged combat... not so much. And of course the iconic Hunter is a ranged character, which continues the proud tradition of Paizo iconics choosing poorly in their class options. ^^
Maybe you should learn to read instead of being condescending. I said that the Hunter has unique options for archery not available to most Ranger builds; I didn't make any claim about comparative power in that department, though I suspect early access to flight is going to be just as valuable (if not moreso) as bonus combat feats when it comes to contributing via ranged combat at lower levels.
Need clarification on Hunter feature "Nature Training" with respect to Feral Hunter, which still remains as nothing of Feral Hunter replaces this feature. To me it seems to be entirely focussed on animal companion, which Feral Hunter does not have.
I think the designer of Hunter class should look at Feral Hunter again and provide an errata document containing corrections to editing mistakes that took place with initial release of the Advance Class Guide.
Does the nature training really do anything at all? For the base hunter that is? Are there any feats that rely on ranger or druid level and modify the animal companion?
On the feral hunter: I don't see any reason why I would ever play it. Wildshape is too complex to make work well and if one wants to summon stuff there is the summoner. Instead of playing a feral hunter I'd rather play a base hunter without an AC or a druid (if I want wildshape).
So, in reference to a melee hunter build... Clearly you'll want to pick up Pack Flanking to get that awesome +4 flanking bonus at all times.
That's not the only great thing about the feat. Normally it is impossible to use both, outflank and paired opportunists. With this you can have both. That means that if either of you scores a crit, both you and your AC get a AOO at +4. And this is in addition to the +4 for outflanking.
But despite that I'm not sure the sacred huntsman isn't better than the hunter. Don't just look at what is traded away but look at what both PCs have. The power of the inquisition (or domain) depends strongly on what you choose. But sometimes the balancing is strange. You can see this when comparing inquisitions and domains. Even without the spells most domains are just superior to the inquisitions.
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Full Name Kyomi Wind Stalker
Race Kitsune
Classes/Levels Hunter 1
Gender Female
Size Medium
Age 21
Special Abilities: Low-Light Vision, Change Shape, Agile, Kitsune Magic, Natural Weapon, Animal Focus, Nature Training, Wild Empathy
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Deity Daikitsu
Location Forest of Spirits
Languages Common, Sylvan, Tengu, Aklo
Strength 10
Dexterity 16
Constitution 13
Intelligence 14
Wisdom 14
Charisma 12
hey companion is and ankylosaurus. any one care to help me finish making her or have any advice like should i do an archetype or not?