It feels as though the penalty to the classes only good save and even lower spells per day outweighs the benefit to have one power between two lists, with the exception of Orc/Draconic cookie-cutter blasting. Are there other options that make it worth the penalties? Like focusing on enchantment, or transmutations? I'm trying to get a feel for full arcane casters and Sorc's seen shortchanged as it is. Am I missing something?
Other spellcasting classes can make use of cross-blooded when taking a 1-level dip in Sorcerer. Basically, you trade a level of spellcasting progression to get two bloodline arcanas and an assortment of other powers.
For single-class Sorcerers, though, giving up one spell per spell level is an extremely rough deal and I wouldn't consider it. A -2 will save penalty on top of that is just overkill in my books.
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So, it's kind of like the casters version of Master of Many Styles?
Dipping is a bigger sacrifice for casters, so it's not quite as good, but otherwise that's a fairly apt comparison.
Basically if you're going for a Super powerful blaster of doom then a Crossblooded Draconic/Orcish Sorc 1 Wiz 19 is the most powerful. Spells that don't due the Draconic element will do +10 damage, while spells that do will do at least +11 damage.
Both Orcish and Draconic add +1 damage (+1 force, +1 chosen element) per damage dice rolled. This means an intensified Shocking Grasp 10d6 will, at level 10, deal 10d6 electrical damage+10 force damage(Orcish)+10 electrical damage(Draconic)+4electrical damage(Wizard Evoker) for an average of 59 damage, 10 of which cannot be resisted in most cases.
This also has other applications, if you have various Arcana that you are stacking that make your spells better they work with other classes as far as I know.
The biggest drawback with this is that Wizards wont get their capstones, which are often quite powerful. A permanently summoned monster is usually about as powerful as a cohort, and never leaves, tires, or complains since most of them are outsiders.
It tends to be best used with people who want to blow things up. Draonic (acid) and Orcish can make Acid Splash do decent damage into high levels, but keep in mind that Cantrips, even when empowered by class abilities, are only going to be doing 1d3+12 maximum at level 20 with the trait.
It is usually better to take highly useful utility spells that are not dependent on level for the Sorcerer levels. Keep Watch is overwhelmingly useful, as it silent image since enemies have to interact with it, and you more or less can use it to grant yourself a version of Mirror Image that has a limited range.
I could imagine a Kitsune enchanter sorcerer who goes crossblooded so that her enchantment spells affect both undead and constructs.
In general cross-blooded is good only for a dip, the penalties are too deep to stick with. And it's only a good dip if you're trying to focus on blasting, to the exclusion of almost everything else.
Personally, with recent rulings on how some other class features work I think they need to go back and look at their ruling about sorcerer bloodlines and change the FAQ so that it does not apply to other spell casting.
Undead lets you target corporeal humanoid undead.
There is a feat for that.
Personally, with recent rulings on how some other class features work I think they need to go back and look at their ruling about sorcerer bloodlines and change the FAQ so that it does not apply to other spell casting.
What recent ruling?
It dealt with spells being added to spell lists and class spells.
It is only tangentially related, but the point of it was basically that only things from your class affect your class spell list. And thusly we have two opposing bases.
Really, excepting for the sorcerer bloodline abilities pretty much everything else only affects one class' spell casting if you have more than one.
Basically if you're going for a Super powerful blaster of doom then a Crossblooded Draconic/Orcish Sorc 1 Wiz 19 is the most powerful. Spells that don't due the Draconic element will do +10 damage, while spells that do will do at least +11 damage.
Both Orcish and Draconic add +1 damage (+1 force, +1 chosen element) per damage dice rolled. This means an intensified Shocking Grasp 10d6 will, at level 10, deal 10d6 electrical damage+10 force damage(Orcish)+10 electrical damage(Draconic)+4electrical damage(Wizard Evoker) for an average of 59 damage, 10 of which cannot be resisted in most cases.
This also has other applications, if you have various Arcana that you are stacking that make your spells better they work with other classes as far as I know.
The biggest drawback with this is that Wizards wont get their capstones, which are often quite powerful. A permanently summoned monster is usually about as powerful as a cohort, and never leaves, tires, or complains since most of them are outsiders.
It tends to be best used with people who want to blow things up. Draonic (acid) and Orcish can make Acid Splash do decent damage into high levels, but keep in mind that Cantrips, even when empowered by class abilities, are only going to be doing 1d3+12 maximum at level 20 with the trait.
It is usually better to take highly useful utility spells that are not dependent on level for the Sorcerer levels. Keep Watch is overwhelmingly useful, as it silent image since enemies have to interact with it, and you more or less can use it to grant yourself a version of Mirror Image that has a limited range.
How do you get the orc bloodline to give force damage?
Also the +12 to acid splash. May need a explanation i Can only get +3 with the trait.( it is a conjuration spell)
And to the OP i agree with most folks it is a dip AT. Mainly for blasters but Serpent and undead is a Nice dip for a enchanter.
Usually, cross blooded is only done as a single level dip. However, there are builds and concepts that it works very well toward. They tend to be very narrow and specialized builds.
Generally you don't sit down and say "I'm making a cross blooded sorcerer"
You should say
I want a character that does Z really well. And will be pretty good at Y and X. With maybe a little W thrown in as well.
Ok, a sorcerer seems like the best class for all the things I want to do.
Ok, this bloodline really works well with Z
Will an archtype like cross blooded or wild blooded help me at Z, Y, or X or will it hurt me more?
Usually the final answer will be that cross blooded hurts more than helps. But not always.
Basically if you're going for a Super powerful blaster of doom then a Crossblooded Draconic/Orcish Sorc 1 Wiz 19 is the most powerful. Spells that don't due the Draconic element will do +10 damage, while spells that do will do at least +11 damage.
Both Orcish and Draconic add +1 damage (+1 force, +1 chosen element) per damage dice rolled. This means an intensified Shocking Grasp 10d6 will, at level 10, deal 10d6 electrical damage+10 force damage(Orcish)+10 electrical damage(Draconic)+4electrical damage(Wizard Evoker) for an average of 59 damage, 10 of which cannot be resisted in most cases.
This also has other applications, if you have various Arcana that you are stacking that make your spells better they work with other classes as far as I know.
The biggest drawback with this is that Wizards wont get their capstones, which are often quite powerful. A permanently summoned monster is usually about as powerful as a cohort, and never leaves, tires, or complains since most of them are outsiders.
It tends to be best used with people who want to blow things up. Draonic (acid) and Orcish can make Acid Splash do decent damage into high levels, but keep in mind that Cantrips, even when empowered by class abilities, are only going to be doing 1d3+12 maximum at level 20 with the trait.
It is usually better to take highly useful utility spells that are not dependent on level for the Sorcerer levels. Keep Watch is overwhelmingly useful, as it silent image since enemies have to interact with it, and you more or less can use it to grant yourself a version of Mirror Image that has a limited range.
How do you get the orc bloodline to give force damage?
Also the +12 to acid splash. May need a explanation i Can only get +3 with the trait.( it is a conjuration spell)
Whatever damage it gives, it honestly isn't important enough to look it up.
Undead lets you target corporeal humanoid undead.There is a feat for that.
link please? That sounds pretty cool, cause really, enchantment sounds like it'd be fun, but there is a really limited scope of effect.
Other spellcasting classes can make use of cross-blooded when taking a 1-level dip in Sorcerer. Basically, you trade a level of spellcasting progression to get two bloodline arcanas and an assortment of other powers.
For single-class Sorcerers, though, giving up one spell per spell level is an extremely rough deal and I wouldn't consider it. A -2 will save penalty on top of that is just overkill in my books.
Yes. But it's rather cheesy to take Crossblooded then go into Wizard where most of the disads of Crossblooded won't apply.
You can make a pretty good enchanter build using Crossblooded Sorcerer (Inevitable/Serpentine) and a Rod of Threnodic Spell. Granted only one level is Sorcerer and the rest are Wizard (Controller), Cleric (Charm Theologian) or Witch.
By RAW both modify the bloodline so they can't be combined. Almost every GM I'm met allows it though. So it really only matters in PFS.
it allows you to get to bloodline powers. Many are veyr powerful
Some bloodline allow you to enchant, constructs, slimes, animals, undead.
So you can vary your your spell casting with it.
I had a crossblooded* baster sorcerer in my shattered star campaign (books 3+) which was played by an average experienced player, and while certainly he was less powerful than an evoker with a crossblooded dip (i have played such a wizard); he was still very powerful and fun to play.
*keep in mind that i have two house rules that really help sorcerers in general and crossblooded blaster sorcerers specifically, the first is that is that spontaneous casters don't have increased casting times when using metamagic rods and the second is that the -1 known spell of the crossblooded sorcerer has a minimum of 1