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First classes, now races? lol, but honestly, I'm down for any thread that isn't about Cthulhu, Explosive Runes, and pedantry.
Eh, I think the standard races are pretty good. Are they as varied as they could be? Nah. Are they compatible with common understandings of fantasy lore? Absolutely. Anything that promotes better character immersion is great, imo.
I'm okay with the core races... Although I'd switch Gnomes' Cha bonus for an Int bonus. that way they aren't just weaker versions of Halflings.
Additionally, I think I'd just make the Half-Orc an actual Orc, but keep the Half-Orc's mechanics, except the "count as human" thing.
Hmmm... oreads and ifrits. Just those two elementally touched. Because people are too obsessed with the whole 4 elements thing.
Fire and Earth are chosen here due to further break convention (no, no water or air for 'traditional' pairs), as well as to both highlight an opposition Paizo has established and because the two have interesting thematic contrast.
Just try to remember Avatar, the Last Airbender- the 2 main powers in that setting were the Fire Nation and the Earth Kingdom. One was a powerful conquering power, and the other was famous for creating grand cities. Those who build up the world, and those who take the world for their own desires.
I think you could certainly make an interesting setting built with this as a major conflict. It would certainly be more interesting than dwarves and elves doing a bit of petty squabbling.
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Goblins, Tengu, whatever other than 6 flavors of white people and a half-green one.
I'd switch out halflings with Kobolds. Also I am not a fan of orcs/half orcs. Would rather have something like WoTC Goliaths fill that niche, or maybe Hobgoblins
Fine with Dwarves/Elves/Gnomes/Humans/Half-Elves.
Seven entries from the 'Animal Races' 3PP supplements coming out.
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I'd get rid of the half-races. They always seemed a bit silly to me.
Don't much care for the animal people either. I mean once you set that a precedent why not have thousands of different sapient races for every type of animal out there? If you have catfolk and ratfolk then why not hedgehogfolk and walrusfolk and giraffefolk, etc.?
Anyways! I'd go with: Humans, Dwarves, Elves, Goblins, Halflings, Orcs and um… Hobgoblins I suppose.
Also I'd make aasimars, teiflings, and elemental blooded into a series of feats that can be picked up by any race and not full races in themselves.
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Donkeyfolk ftw!!! And platypusfolk!
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Humans (only cause people would complain if not included), Samsaran (I like the flavor too much), Catfolk, oread, ifrit, undine, sylph.
More simply I'd want to remove the small sized races since mechanically they always seem to over complicate games I'm in. Also dwarves because I have very few good memories of dwarf pcs and a significant number of bad dwarf of memories.
I'd get rid of the half-races. They always seemed a bit silly to me.
Don't much care for the animal people either. I mean once you set that a president why not have thousands of different sapient races for every type of animal out there? If you have catfolk and ratfolk then why not hedgehogfolk and walrusfolk and giraffefolk, etc.?
1. Precedent.
2. No reason, which is why I love the Animal Races stuff from Eric Morton.
I'd get rid of the half-races. They always seemed a bit silly to me.
Don't much care for the animal people either. I mean once you set that a president why not have thousands of different sapient races for every type of animal out there? If you have catfolk and ratfolk then why not hedgehogfolk and walrusfolk and giraffefolk, etc.?
1. Precedent.
2. No reason, which is why I love the Animal Races stuff from Eric Morton.
Opps! Thanks for pointing that out. Autocorrect is such a pain sometimes.
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Core races; but I'd give them some versatility (not crazy amounts, like the 6 types of Aasimar or 10 types of Tieflings).
Examples;
Dwarves are divided into two castes (and countless clans), the warrior caste (standard +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha) and a craftsman caste (+2 Con, +2 Int, -2 Dex). Thanks to the crafters, they have a bit of a monopoly on masterwork armor and weaponry and some special materials crafting, like adamantine. Dwarven rune-wizards are indeed a thing.
Elves can be Sovyrian (gray/high/sun, standard +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con, more erudite and not as well adapted to Golarion's environment, prone to being a bit elitist) or forlorn (wild/wood/moon, +2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Str, better adapted to Golarion, mixed with local fey, more innately magical, thinner, a bit earthier). Forlorn bards and sorcerers are legendary for their fey-like natures and talents.
Halflings can be urban, intermingled with human communities (standard +2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Str) or rural, more likely to have their own communities (+2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Str), less prone to co-existing effortlessly with other races than their urban kin, but stronger willed and perhaps slightly more suited to resisting the effects of cursed magic rings...
Gnomes don't do the genetics thing. Two gnomes with identical attribute modifiers can have a couple of kids with totally unrelated modifiers. PF standard of +2 Con, +2 Cha and -2 Str is an option, the other option is +2 to any single mental attribute (Int, Wis or Cha), with no physical attribute modifiers in any direction. Want a 2nd edition style gnome who is good at arcane illusion magic or tinkering? Take the +2 Intelligence. Want one who is a natural druid? +2 Wisdom. Liked those 3.5 Favored Class Bard types, or PF fey bloodline sorcerers? +2 Cha.
If drawing only from published races:
Human, Aasimar, Tiefling, Elves, Warforged, and for a sixth, I would group the elemental touched into one category. Likewise the elves would be subdivided into light and dark, but still considered one race. There's not a seventh race I like well enough.
I'd get rid of the half-races. They always seemed a bit silly to me.
Don't much care for the animal people either. I mean once you set that a precedent why not have thousands of different sapient races for every type of animal out there? If you have catfolk and ratfolk then why not hedgehogfolk and walrusfolk and giraffefolk, etc.?
Anyways! I'd go with: Humans, Dwarves, Elves, Goblins, Halflings, Orcs and um… Hobgoblins I suppose.
Also I'd make aasimars, teiflings, and elemental blooded into a series of feats that can be picked up by any race and not full races in themselves.
Love that. I'd make Half-races a feat or an alternate racial trait as well.
Would change Hobbos for something else.
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Grippli and Drow only.
Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling, Human, Orc, Wayang.
I'm happy with most of the original core races. But I agree that the half-races are silly. I mean, if they produce fertile children, are they really even different species?
And I like the gnome-wayang pairing. One originally from the First World, one from the Plane of Shadow.
Obligatory Human, Elf, Half-Orc, Half-Elf, and Dwarf. But also Gnomes and Wayangs as said above, the contrast is great, and having midget races makes people happy. This is the list I'd use to satisfy a group anyway.
If I got to choose for myself? It would look more like: All the plane-touched races (just pick your ancestry and those are the stats you get. Standard Tiefling and aasimar arrays), Elf, Dwarf, Orc (Without the penalty to Wis, giving them a shamanistic vibe), Hobgoblin, Kitsune, and Androids.
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I'm okay with the core races... Although I'd switch Gnomes' Cha bonus for an Int bonus. that way they aren't just weaker versions of Halflings.
Additionally, I think I'd just make the Half-Orc an actual Orc, but keep the Half-Orc's mechanics, except the "count as human" thing.
I agree 100% about Half-Orcs, but I really think +2 INT makes way more sense for halflings. They're supposedly quick witted underfoot types, whereas Gnomes are larger-than-life First World immigrants. That screams CHA to me and gives Gnomes a fair monopoly on spontaneous caster builds.
But I'm assuming we have to keep the races as is, so if I had choose, I'd remove both "HALF" races and replace them with Goblin and Hobgoblin. There would be a more even balance of Small vs Medium races in the games, and no more uncomfortable discussions about how exactly half-orcs come about.
It always hits my ear wrong how many people say they would remove gnomes. That was my LEAST favorite thing about 4th Edition (and that's saying something). They removed one of the best, most interesting races in the game and replaced it with one of the least interesting (Ooooh, I'm another race for dark and brooding loners. Way fun for a cooperative game, guys. /sarcasm) and somehow made Tieflings even more dull by giving them a vague, yet incredibly trite, justification for their commonness.
1. Interesting is in the eye of the beholder.
2. Race and personality are completely unrelated.
I love oddball, off the wall races. Even so, I recognize the need for a core book to make the game as relatable to legacy fantasy themes as necessary.
The current races in the core book should stay.
I strongly support that third party settings should make unique and unusual PC races.
I made a Far East fantasy world that had biped phoenix folk, biped dragon folk, biped Kirin folk, and biped turtle folk (different names of course, yet based on Taoism four sacred animals).
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2. Race and personality are completely unrelated.
Not necessarily. This comes down to a nature v nurture argument.
I mean, half-orcs are just a wee bit more inclined towards having a chip on their shoulder than a gnome would, because...well...racism. Dealing with the baggage a race has within the setting can be an important part of the character.
Even if the character has never had the experiences that would lead to this baggage, that is in itself part of your background. Did you have a sheltered existence? Did you live in a land far removed from your race? How do you deal with the sudden realization that most people hate your kind?
That's still all nurture, PLUS it's highly dependent on campaign setting anyway.
That's still all nurture, PLUS it's highly dependent on campaign setting anyway.
I am not sure what I was really trying to do with the 'nature v nurture' phrase, quite honestly.
Still, the point is that race and setting can be very hard to separate, and if you don't write your character to go into the setting and don't have them react to the setting...well, are you really even role playing?
You certainly do not have to let it define you, but it is still something you have to deal with in some way. How your personality dealt with such a problem is an excellent way to understand your character in a more dynamic way.
I'd remove the idea of core races and leave an RP point based "build your own race" system, with a couple of examples but not settinganything in stone.
Using core products only and for a generic fantasy world:
- Aasimar
- Catfolk
- Gnome
- Hobgoblin
- Orc
- Human
- Tiefling
Using any d20 race and for a generic fantasy world:
- Aasimar
- Catfolk
- Hagspawn (FR: Unapproachable East)
- Ibixian (Monster Manual III)
- Orc
- Human
- Tiefling
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Bard, Inquisitor, Ranger, Barbarian, Sorcerer, Cleric, Witch, Druid
Human Human Human Human Human Human Human
I really don't like halflings and half-races seem a little silly.
Aasimir, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Human, Tiefling and Were-creature.
Humans, Orcs, Elves, weretouched, halflings, dwarves, planetouched
Seconding this list.
What seven races would you choose? Or would you keep the same ones?
1. Human.
2. Elf.3. Dwarf.
4. Halfling.
5. Half Elf.
6. Aasimar.
7. Catfolk.
If I had to choose for a boring PHB/CRB type book, I would go with:
Human
Elf
Dwarf
Gnome
Orc
Ratfolk
Goblin
If I had to choose 7 for a setting's core races, I would go with:
Elf
Dwarf
Gnome (non-trickster)
Orc
Canine (wolf, fox, african wild dog) people
Feline (lion, tiger, cheetah, leopard) people
Bear (grizzly, black, polar, panda) people
the above are a few of the core races of my setting. Humans are the orcs of my world, as in the world's enemy race, which is why they aren't included. And I am just tired of the trickster stereotype for gnomes, I made my gnomes more like small-sized Spartans from the 300 movie.
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Tally of votes so far:
Human 26
Elf 22
Dwarf 21
Halfling 17
Gnome 16
Half-Elf 11
Half-Orc 8
Orc 8
Aasimar 6
Goblin 6
Tiefling 6
Hobgoblin 5
Kobold 4
Catfolk 3
Wayang 3
Weretouched 3
Drow 2
Grippli 2
Ifrit 2
Oread 2
Planetouched 2
Ratfolk 2
Gensai 1
Half-Giant 1
Merfolk 1
Samsaran 1
Sylph 1
Tengu 1
Trox 1
Undine 1
Vanara 1
Warforged 1
Post script: Some people voted several times for different types of settings. In each case I took their most generic list.
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Interesting, very interesting indeed. Personally, I think that humans, elves and dwarves have to be core races as they are the'staple' races (humans in particular, due to their flexibility). I'm cool for the half races as they offer a cross between the versatility of humans and the perks of a 'monster race'. Gnomes and halflings, in my opinion, could be swapped out for more 'bestial' varieties. Goblins are a good choice as are hobgoblins and orcs, though I would like to something a little more 'alien'.
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Take out half-elf, and half-orc. Add goblin, and gnoll.
Interesting, very interesting indeed. Personally, I think that humans, elves and dwarves have to be core races as they are the'staple' races (humans in particular, due to their flexibility). I'm cool for the half races as they offer a cross between the versatility of humans and the perks of a 'monster race'. Gnomes and halflings, in my opinion, could be swapped out for more 'bestial' varieties. Goblins are a good choice as are hobgoblins and orcs, though I would like to something a little more 'alien'.
But is there much difference between the general motifs of a dwarf and an oread? They are both stout, grumpy and duty minded individuals associated with the earth and underground.
The only things I really see lost here is the use of a Tolkien trope and the omnipresence of awesome beards (not to say that oreads can't have awesome beards. Maybe some mossy affair to go with their earth theme. Still, not omnipresent enough)
And personally, I always felt tengu could take over the role of elves, at least in the martial sense (reclusive race of highly skilled and agile warriors that are commonly imagined as residing in secret mountain villages).
I can understand the role is a staple, but is the actual race? Could another, similar race fill that role? We all must ask ourselves this while considering our choices.
Human, Elf, Gillmen, Orc, Goblin, Gnome, Tengu
Not a big fan of halflings and dwarves.
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As core races? Humans, that's it.
For my own setting, I've got humans and gnomes so far. (At least that's what they are for now. They're more of a mix of dwarf, gnome, goblin and kobold and should serve as the small underground race.)
Alternatively, I'd like to ask the players what they want to play, and so I got Leshies, Teemo like furries, and insectoids.
Using the five races, you'd have the stout, the fairy, the mundane, the high men and the cute. In my setting humans would be mundane and gnomes stout. That leaves fairy, high men and cute.
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I'd drop half-elves and half-orcs, and probably also halflings, since they're just too obvious an ersatz hobbit (and it's weird that the name they identify with implies that they're "half" of something else. Wouldn't humans be "doublings" to them?)
In their place? I always felt like Paizo missed an opportunity not bringing tieflings into the game from Day One. They also pick up the slack that the half-orcs' absence leaves behind. Grippli are a good choice for a second Small race. Not sure who I'd pick for the seventh. Warforged are a bit "out there" for a core race. I want to say Sylph, but Gnomes already cover the "fey/natural world" angle. Fetchlings would be a good choice, since they're associated with shadow magic without being drawn to evil.
There we go: Humans, Elves, Dwarves, Gnomes, Tieflings, Grippli, and Fetchlings