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Nope. Ability score generation makes the game more fair for everybody. If you don't like that, tough luck.
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How would rolling for stats even work in organized play? Would a GM actually have to sign off on having watched you roll stats? What would stop you from "fishing" by repeatedly rolling up new characters until you got something uber? I can understand preferring rolling for stats, but I don't see how it could possibly work in the context of organized play.
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What I didn't see in your post was any reason why rolling should be used over point buy. I supposed the closest is you somehow think it increases how brave the society is , and somehow rolling (luck based) over point buy (tactical) is somehow more intelligent?
Sorry chap, You really haven't made any actual case for why it should be changed aside from the fact that you personally don't like it.
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For the record, my experience in Living Greyhawk during 3.5, used point buy for stat generation as well.
As a GM and a player I like it for an even power level throughout all players for character generation. As a GM, I know the general range of power levels I'll deal with from the start of the campaign, instead of having wild variation between some strong and some weak characters. As a Player, I enjoy the comfort that no one player will claim the spotlight through superior stats and ability,, and likewise that someone is not going to be upset because the stats they rolled are inferior and make a weak character no matter what they do.
I am slightly offended at the implication that you need to roll stats in order to be a 'real' roleplayer, when honestly, the roleplay aspect should be more about how you play, not what stats you have.
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Real RPG players aren't afraid to roll characters.
I'm a Scotsman whether you like it or not, laddie.
The purchase method has always been despised by players
[Citation Needed]
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Real RPG players aren't afraid to roll characters.
Yeah, you got us. I always wanted to roll characters, but I'm never able to go through with it because I'm always overwhelmed by sheer terror. I wish I was brave like a real RPG player.
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Account apparently does not exist. Carry on, nothing to see here.
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le trolleth!
Account apparently does not exist. Carry on, nothing to see here.
It's this guy. The alias doesn't appear to have a profile, so results in a dead link.
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Back when, we had to roll our 3d6 for stats uphill in the snow, both ways.
My group used to roll our stats in a box with scorpions, that's how hardcore we were.
Yes it is really much fun to walk around with a munchkin half a year because you rolled pourly on day 1.
I really try to let every player contribute to the party as much as they can/want so a system that puts someone behind the rest from day one is not what i'm looking for at all.
The rules also don't say much about jumping of a cliff and rerolling your stats.
Back when, we had to roll our 3d6 for stats uphill in the snow, both ways.My group used to roll our stats in a box with scorpions, that's how hardcore we were.
Please your only hardcore when you bungee jump off a bridge, through a ring of fire and spinning blade, and then roll your dice onto the box floating in the shark infested waters.
/end thread
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Back when, we had to roll our 3d6 for stats uphill in the snow, both ways.My group used to roll our stats in a box with scorpions, that's how hardcore we were.Please your only hardcore when you bungee jump off a bridge, through a ring of fire and spinning blade, and then roll your dice onto the box floating in the shark infested waters.
/end thread
Our GM never trusted the players to roll the dice themselves. So we had to have a commoner roll 3d6 in order before a common housecat could leave him dying. That cat went through a lot of commoners, let me tell you.
*yawn*
Rolling for stats worked in 2e because the game was designed to handle it. It doesn't work in 3.X. The only time I have seen it work is were the rolling for stats yields such a high average that each stat is only different levels of good.
Try playing the game rolling 3d6 for each stat in order. If you want to be "hardcore" then go all in. None of this "my groups better than point buyers. We have CHANCE in our creation. Oh we roll 2d6+8 for each stat."
*also clearly a flame-bait post*
Real RPG players aren't afraid to roll characters. The purchase method has always been despised by players, and if you can't trust your players your are sunk anyway.
No True Scotsman fallacy.
False statement.It's not about trust, it's about balance and fairness.
Epic Fail.
I'm with the OP on one small point, I also prefer rolled stats to point buy. The rest of his post being angry at organised play for using point buy however is just out the window. Organised play is meant to be fair and all characters are meant to be balanced and roughly around the same power level or at least potential power level, that is why they use point buy.
What the OP should be looking for instead of joining society games is a group that plays regular old home games. Where GM's are free to alter, cajole, or even ignore rules in the interest of fun. I am currently running one such home game and my group regularly does 2 games a week with different GM's so that everybody gets some play time. Anyone interested in some regularly scheduled weekly or bi-weekly gaming feel free to PM me to inquire about our schedule and openings in the group.
PSY
P.S. I apologize if I just fed a troll because I didn't read all of the posts in the thread but I felt I had an honest point of view that was not overtly hostile.
Nope. Ability score generation makes the game more fair for everybody. If you don't like that, tough luck.If all classes were either SAD or MAD to the same degree, this would be true. As they are not, it's a blatant lie.
I don't see how that makes the game less fair. Class is something you can choose you know. Unless your suggesting that the classes are unbalanced and I know you would never suggest that.
Because the classes are totally balanced you know. (/blatantlies)
Try playing the game rolling 3d6 for each stat in order.
I'm actually doing that at the moment. It's not as bad as you'd think. I prefer Point Buy, but it's playable.
Try playing the game rolling 3d6 for each stat in order.I'm actually doing that at the moment. It's not as bad as you'd think. I prefer Point Buy, but it's playable.
It can be. But one bad roll in the wrong stat easily makes a pc unplayable as an adventurer.
With a Con lower than 6 for example you just don't need to bother with it. Such a person would not survive the normal hardships an adventurer has to go through, even if no combat is involved. If you get into any kind of fight nearly every single hit will kill you.
Despite the obvious troll flamebait of the OP, saying anything negative about Point Buy on these forums will definitely get you some riled up raging thrown your way.
I personally prefer arrays, with rolling 2nd and point buy coming in 3rd.
Despite the obvious troll flamebait of the OP, saying anything negative about Point Buy on these forums will definitely get you some riled up raging thrown your way.
I personally prefer arrays, with rolling 2nd and point buy coming in 3rd.
Most threads on this topic have flamebaits in the OP or the first 5 replies so it is hard to tell how such a thread would look without them.
I prefer point buy, would be ok with arrays and just don't play with rolled stats. At least not for 3.x or PF.
There are other gaming systems that work better with rolled stats than d20 does.
D20 is too much of a combat simulation system to have fun with sucky stats.
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Try playing the game rolling 3d6 for each stat in order.I played in a game once where the DM asked you to roll stats, in order, after you pick your class.
That has to be the dumbest thing I ever heard. Picking the class after the stats makes sense. Picking before is paste-eating levels of dumb.
Even taking the 'fairness' aspect out of the equation, for me, PB is preferable because it lets me build the character I want. If I have crap stats, it's because I wanted them that way. The penalties for such are purely of my own making, not the result of fickle randomness. I think character creation and advancement should be an exact science; every aspect of it should be your choice.
I also don't think that a player/character should be penalized long-term by a single die roll, and this is why I also don't roll for HP.
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This reminds me of the review of Spawn of Fashan I read. You randomly roll what class your PC's parents wanted him to become, then you choose what class your PC wanted to become when he was a kid. Then you roll ability scores in order. Finally you selected either your parent's or your youthful choice of character class...
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Nope. Ability score generation makes the game more fair for everybody. If you don't like that, tough luck.If all classes were either SAD or MAD to the same degree, this would be true. As they are not, it's a blatant lie.
Wrong. A system where everybody gets the same points to create their characters is inherently more fair than a random number system. That on top of the fair system is an entire other system which inherently favors some classes over the others is not the fault of the point buy mechanic.
Also, I don't appreciate you accusing me of lying.
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I personally hate rolling stats.
Because I typically roll poorly for stats. And if I'm stuck with what I roll (which you should be in organized play), then I'm gonna end up with a couple sub 10 stats, and nothing over a 13 or 14 ,which means I have about a 5 or 10 point buy.
Sitting at the table with the guy who "somehow couldn't roll less than 16" and has a character with essentially a 40 or 50 point buy, is going to be really hilariously fun for me... not.
I would like a system of rolling ability scores randomly until you reached a 15 point character, or a 20 point character, or whatever. That away everyone has a random character, but the same overall point buy.
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The point buy system is great for society. For home games that I run I let my players pick the stats for their characters or roll 4d6+1 per die toss out the low die. But in all I am I favor of the point buy system
I would never run a game with a 15 point buy but thats just me as I like a high powered game.
Try playing the game rolling 3d6 for each stat in order.I played in a game once where the DM asked you to roll stats, in order, after you pick your class.
Kids these days...
You roll 3d6 in order after choosing your race, then check to see which class(es) you qualify for with those modified ability scores (based on the minimum and maximum ability scores for each class). Oh, and re-rolls were only allowed if you failed to qualify for any class. [/1st Ed A&AD]
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Try playing the game rolling 3d6 for each stat in order.I'm actually doing that at the moment. It's not as bad as you'd think. I prefer Point Buy, but it's playable.It can be. But one bad roll in the wrong stat easily makes a pc unplayable as an adventurer.
With a Con lower than 6 for example you just don't need to bother with it. Such a person would not survive the normal hardships an adventurer has to go through, even if no combat is involved. If you get into any kind of fight nearly every single hit will kill you.
I remember playing a psionist in 2nd edition with a 3 strength (rolled on 4d6, drop lowest).
That said, I prefer point buy. My dice have always hated me.
Hmm dump and run thread, eh? Color me shocked.
Hey, look! I rolled 18 for every stat! It's too bad you weren't there to see it, GM! But I did, honest!
Just to tag on this:
I've actually known a guy who could have reasonably be assumed to have legitimately done that.I've watched him roll stats (on 3d6 no less) for an entire party of adventurers (he was the GM).
Lowest score in the party was a 14. There might've been a 12 in there, but pretty much everyone had an 18 in primary with a 17 in secondary, and a 15 or 16 in tertiary.
The only time he didn't roll omg amazing stats (that is, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 18) was when he rolled stats so low the even book says you can reroll (that is, results like 3, 4, 6, 8, 8, 10).
Anyway, in general I favor point buy. I'm a little sad that my current character isn't, only because if it was actually the character I had from our prior game, that character's stats were an effective 36 point buy (and we're on 20).
(Worst game to use non-point-buy for stat gen is H.A.R.P.: if you get a stat >93 (out of 100) you're Just Better than everyone else at the table. Because the exp you get is entirely based on your stats...a 60-70 gets you 1 'exp' a 70-80 gets you 2, an 80-90 gets you 3, a 90-95 gets you 4, and a 95-99 gets you 5, and a 100 gets you 6. With these points you can raise your attributes, buy skill points, or purchase special powers. I made a character for a game once, my stats were 'pretty good' but not amazing: high of 83, low of 67. One of the other players rolled three stats above 80, two of which were above 90. I did the math: by spending every single upgrade point I would get from start of game through 3rd level I could have the same character they STARTED with.)
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(Worst game to use non-point-buy for stat gen is H.A.R.P.: if you get a stat >93 (out of 100) you're Just Better than everyone else at the table. Because the exp you get is entirely based on your stats...a 60-70 gets you 1 'exp' a 70-80 gets you 2, an 80-90 gets you 3, a 90-95 gets you 4, and a 95-99 gets you 5, and a 100 gets you 6. With these points you can raise your attributes, buy skill points, or purchase special powers. I made a character for a game once, my stats were 'pretty good' but not amazing: high of 83, low of 67. One of the other players rolled three stats above 80, two of which were above 90. I did the math: by spending every single upgrade point I would get from start of game through 3rd level I could have the same character they STARTED with.)
Rolemaster was like this, development points per level were based on stats.
I have a DM that used to insist on rolled stats. I think it ended when I rolled 18/16/15/14/12/10, one friend rolled 18/17/17/16/14/9, and the third rolled 14/13/13/12/9/8 or something like that. He then rolled a Chaotic Evil Commoner with a bunch of generically useful magic items, tried to kill my character, the rest of the party killed him easily, and rerolled something with a better statline.
Ironically enough that player was also vehemently against point-buy, for reasons vaguely to do with "being a munchkin".
(Worst game to use non-point-buy for stat gen is H.A.R.P.: if you get a stat >93 (out of 100) you're Just Better than everyone else at the table.)Rolemaster was like this, development points per level were based on stats.
I think HARP is based on / related to Rolemaster. I informed the GM of my utter dislike for the stat-gen system, the other player that did well was probably not going to play anyway (for non-game reasons), and all-in-all the game never went ahead.
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