I will be playing in a campaign with a couple of people. I need some help with this one monster he will be repeatedly throwing my way. it is a strix grapple specialist that will be dropping players from ridiculous heights, and he has made it clear to me that it will be 5-3 levels ahead of the party at all times. I was wondering what some great nonmagical bonuses to escape artist were. I will probably be getting boots of the cat at about level 3 and a wand of fly at level 5, but I need a way to get out of the grapple before I get pinned. I also need to find the rule where flying upwards halves your movement, cause I'm pretty sure that it exists and I can't find it. help would be appreciated very much
I'm going to be a brawler fighter archetype and I might be the only melee character. the fat thing might work. I would still need to counteract the pin on the ground though.
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What race will your fighter be?
A good option is to no get grappled
Favored Class Options
Fighter Add +1 to the Fighter's CMD when resisting two combat maneuvers of the character's choice.
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Keep falling down? We have a solution for just 1k.
Edit: I see you mentioned the boots in your first post. Yeah, you'll be fine. Try to kill the monster too, have everyone carry a net and ready an action once it gets into range.
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Not really. If the Tetori is grappling you and has you pinned, he isn't affecting the rest of your team. Graceful grappled means he doesn't have the penalties of being grappled but he still isn't going to be affecting the rest of the team, so they can focus on him while he is stuck with you.
You may want to go with unarmed fighter instead of brawler. You will get DR while being grappled which may be better for surviving the pin and damage attempts than the bonuses brawler gives you.
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Have a spontaneous caster in the group grab Feather Fall. It's an Immediate Action, so all it costs them is 1st level spell slots and nobody in the group will ever take damage from this (since they need not cast it on themselves, but can do anyone within 25 feet + 5 feet per level, and being an Immediate Action can be used as soon as they're withing that range...even mid fall).
Or get the aforementioned Boots, or a Ring of Feather Falling (which is only 2200 gp).
potion of Enlarge Person to quadruple your weight. And smack her harder. All in a single package.
Is a potion of grease a thing? Would that help?
I just think taht the Strix tactic will not be particularly useful. He need two grapple check to pin, and one grapple check to move 30 ft. Those are three turns, just make the party kill it in the mean time.
I just think taht the Strix tactic will not be particularly useful. He need two grapple check to pin, and one grapple check to move 30 ft. Those are three turns, just make the party kill it in the mean time.
Improved, Greater, and Rapid grappler makes that not so.
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I believe there are also a pair of boots which cause you to take minimum falling damage. So you would cap out at 20 damage for a 200ft drop.
Edit: Boots of Cat, 500 gp.
Also, as mentioned being enlarged will make it significantly more difficult to pick you up. Strix will not have a particularly high strength score.
If he has 24 strength his maximum load is 700 lbs for heavy encumbrance. This encumbers him as heavy armor, reducing his max dex to AC to 1 and increasing his Armor Check Penalty to 6 (which will hurt his ability to fly).
Further, "A character can lift as much as double his maximum load off the ground, but he or she can only stagger around with it. While overloaded in this way, the character loses any Dexterity bonus to AC and can move only 5 feet per round (as a full-round action)."
If the strix tries to lift you off the ground and you are above his strength limit he can only move you as a full around action and loses all dex to AC. This would be great for you, as your friends pick him apart.
So, max a 200 lb muscle man. Be enlarged. Now you weigh 800 lbs. Don't forget though, that all the gear you carry also becomes larger and heavier. Armor weight doubles. So your full plate now weight 100 lbs. Your weapon weight doubles, potentially another 30 lbs or so. All the other gear your carrying should probably double as well. Could be another 100 or so lbs. Now he needs to deal with potentially 1000+ lbs of weight and trying to get it off the ground. Watch as he struggles and fails and then beat him to death.
I just think taht the Strix tactic will not be particularly useful. He need two grapple check to pin, and one grapple check to move 30 ft. Those are three turns, just make the party kill it in the mean time.Improved, Greater, and Rapid grappler makes that not so.
Fair enough.
I still think that with good str and dex, the fighter favored class bonus,a couple of magic items and perhaps the grapple feat too, the CMD of the fighter should be high enough to slow down the grapple-pin-move process. The fighter could even reverse the grapple in the first round.
By the way, intimidate also reduce the CMB of the strix.
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The fighter could even reverse the grapple in the first round.
Highly doubtful. Winning a grapple against an up-level tetori is going to be next to impossible thanks to the interaction of Graceful Grappler, Counter-Grapple, and Break Free. The only way I could see it happening is with a lore warden and their stupidly powerful bonus to CMB, and that is unlikely.
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Readied attacks will also help. I'm running a RoW campaign and I've seen first hand the damage a brawler can put out. That extra damage as a penalty to grapple checks will be huge.
Plus don't forget that if you are moved into a dangerous area, which a flying creature trying to lift you off the ground counts as, you get an immediate escape artist attempt with a +4 bonus as a free action.
Wand of Grease or oil of grease (which is definately a thing), for those "Oh look it's the flying grappler again" moment to coat yourself to gain that +10 circumstance bonus on escape artist and CMB attempts to break the grapple and your cmd to avoid being grappled.
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Readied attacks will also help. I'm running a RoW campaign and I've seen first hand the damage a brawler can put out. That extra damage as a penalty to grapple checks will be huge.
Plus don't forget that if you are moved into a dangerous area, which a flying creature trying to lift you off the ground counts as, you get an immediate escape artist attempt with a +4 bonus as a free action.
Wand of Grease or oil of grease (which is definately a thing), for those "Oh look it's the flying grappler again" moment to coat yourself to gain that +10 circumstance bonus on escape artist and CMB attempts to break the grapple and your cmd to avoid being grappled.
Damage doesn't apply a penalty to grapple checks unless it's from an AoO provoked by the manuever, that Improved Grapple negates.
Grease, liberating command, and Freedom of Movement can be negated by a level 9 Tetori by using Ki.
If you are going against a up-level tetori, you will be grappled.
The thing to do is make sure the drop trick wont kill you, and capitalize on the fact that if they are grappling you, the rest of the team is free to attack it.
And pray that your GM isn't aware of Final Embrace and the Belt of Anaconda's Coils.
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Could always take one level of Conjuration Specialist Wizard. Swift action teleports are good, right?
Teleportation School
Associated School: Conjuration.
Replacement Power: The following school power replaces the acid dart power of the conjuration school.
Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
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On the other hand, Play a Paladin. At least that way you know going in you're going to fall.
Ba-dum-TSSSSS
The fighter could even reverse the grapple in the first round.Highly doubtful. Winning a grapple against an up-level tetori is going to be next to impossible thanks to the interaction of Graceful Grappler, Counter-Grapple, and Break Free. The only way I could see it happening is with a lore warden and their stupidly powerful bonus to CMB, and that is unlikely.
If hte braler have greater grapple then counter grapple do not works. Graceful grapple make them harder to grapple but not that much.
Break free would guarantee the tetori will not stay grapple much time but do not save him from being grapple in the first place. And that is all is needed. One more round for the rest of the party to kill the guy.
If you're the only melee, and he's playing a strix that will grapple and fly up out of reach, I'd be more worried about being neutralized by his aerial tactics, since you can't fly. As well as the rest of the party. The squishy wizard likely won't survive the grapple and drop.
A barbarian savage grappler will let you hit him with a great axe when he tries ro grapple you.
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I have to say I hate it when GM's don't allow for a player win. I could be misconstruing the situation, but it seems like the GM has decided in advance to prevent you from killing the BBEG before you are "supposed to."
This trope of the recurring villain works incredibly well when you don't fudge any dice and makes the game awful if you do fudge. I only develop respect for enemies that take the same risks I do in combat and that includes rolling ones on saves. I'm not against the GM fudging to make the game more fun for everyone, but I think it ruins far more games than it helps.
An immovable rod could be lots of fun against this tactic.
An immovable rod could be lots of fun against this tactic.
You would need multiples to pin yourself in place, or else it just becomes an opposed strength check to see who can hold on/move.
An immovable rod could be lots of fun against this tactic.You would need multiples to pin yourself in place, or else it just becomes an opposed strength check to see who can hold on/move.
Not if you were attached to it.
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A shirt of immolation could be amusing as well. Also the spells of fire shield or elemental aura.
Or just win initiative.
Here is an idea: Warpriest using a bladed scarf as a sacred weapon. Bladed Scarf does damage when you are grappled, and sacred damage should boost it too.
Not if you were attached to it.An immovable rod could be lots of fun against this tactic.You would need multiples to pin yourself in place, or else it just becomes an opposed strength check to see who can hold on/move.
And how do you plan to do that exactly? You could use Sovereign Glue, but thats about the only way. And then you have a stand-still button stuck to you.
And realistic at some point it should be considered if the rod should move through you (though this has gone far beyond the scope of the intended purpose of the rod so it's not clear).
so enlarge person will be a very great thing for me. and i'll start at 200 pounds. this is a very good piece of advice. thanks all for that as for liberating command i still get the extra escape attempt, just not the bonus to it if i am remembering right. i do know about oil of grease, and it is a magical bonus so tetori nixes it. my main problem will be getting nonmagical bonuses to grapple and not getting pinned on the ground if i can't be flown up. i want to be a brawler for the general utility of it. it has some very usefull abilities. i also already made my character
Also make sure that your GM remembers that gaining altitude "costs" more flight speed than does moving forward, depending on the flier's maneuverability.
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Why is your DM telling you before hand what he's going to do? Does anyone else think this is weird?
I'd play a goblin, stuff any and all caveties on my gear and person full of nasty alchemical explosive goodies. Wrap that in a layer of bacon and then tell a spellcaster to cook my bacon if I get grappled.
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How about the reverse of that tactic?
Handcuffs or Sovereign glue so that you are stuck attached to the Strix and they can't drop you.
How about the reverse of that tactic?
Handcuffs or Sovereign glue so that you are stuck attached to the Strix and they can't drop you.
oh god that is hilarious. i will definitely be using this with enlarge person
Why is your DM telling you before hand what he's going to do? Does anyone else think this is weird?
he likes to brag, and i've already encountered it once in the storyline
Alchemical Grease+Cestus. Hard to Grapple [alchemical grease is an alchemical bonus, not a magical bonus], and the damage bonuses from Brawler apply to Cestus fighting to help. That added to enlarge person and you should be fine.
thanks, not sure if i will be able to avoid the pin, but this helps.
Make a better grappler. A Barbarian with Strength Surge with the Improved and Greater Grapple feats can easily get a higher CMB than a Monk.
thought of something. is it possible to pin midair?
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thought of something. is it possible to pin midair?
As a GM? I would personally say no, not unless you were at least one size cateogry larger than the creature you were trying to grapple. According to the rules? The are silent on the issue, and without greater rulings or details it's probably allowed under RAW. It just doesn't make sense to me as you need something to pin the creature against (usually the ground). In mid-air you don't have anything to pin it against, but if you are large enough you could concievably pin them against yourself.
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RAW, I think it's definitely possible. Realistically, I'd still say it's possible. It could be flavored as pinning your opponent's arms against their body behind their back. That functionally restricts the creature in the way that the Pinned condition outlines. I'm sure there are more ways it's possible, too.
thought of something. is it possible to pin midair?As a GM? I would personally say no, not unless you were at least one size cateogry larger than the creature you were trying to grapple. According to the rules? The are silent on the issue, and without greater rulings or details it's probably allowed under RAW. It just doesn't make sense to me as you need something to pin the creature against (usually the ground). In mid-air you don't have anything to pin it against, but if you are large enough you could concievably pin them against yourself.
thanks i'll be using these logickings in my argument against mid-air pin when it comes up.
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I'd allow it. You can use something like a Full Nelson to completely immobilize someone. Pin isn't a literal pin against the ground, pinned and prone are separate conditions.
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For the Flying straight up question, you need to check out
Check: You generally need only make a Fly check when you are attempting a complex maneuver. Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed. It can also turn up to 45 degrees by sacrificing 5 feet of movement, can rise at half speed at an angle of 45 degrees, and can descend at any angle at normal speed. Note that these restrictions only apply to movement taken during your current turn. At the beginning of the next turn, you can move in a different direction than you did the previous turn without making a check. Taking any action that violates these rules requires a Fly check. The difficulty of these maneuvers varies depending upon the maneuver you are attempting, as noted on the following chart.
Flying Maneuver Fly DC
Move less than half speed and remain flying 10
Hover 15
Turn greater than 45° by spending 5 feet of movement 15
Turn 180° by spending 10 feet of movement 20
Fly up at greater than 45° angle 20
For the Flying straight up question, you need to check out
Check: You generally need only make a Fly check when you are attempting a complex maneuver. Without making a check, a flying creature can remain flying at the end of its turn so long as it moves a distance greater than half its speed. It can also turn up to 45 degrees by sacrificing 5 feet of movement, can rise at half speed at an angle of 45 degrees, and can descend at any angle at normal speed. Note that these restrictions only apply to movement taken during your current turn. At the beginning of the next turn, you can move in a different direction than you did the previous turn without making a check. Taking any action that violates these rules requires a Fly check. The difficulty of these maneuvers varies depending upon the maneuver you are attempting, as noted on the following chart.Flying Maneuver Fly DC
Move less than half speed and remain flying 10
Hover 15
Turn greater than 45° by spending 5 feet of movement 15
Turn 180° by spending 10 feet of movement 20
Fly up at greater than 45° angle 20
thanks there could've sworn i looked there though
I'd allow it. You can use something like a Full Nelson to completely immobilize someone. Pin isn't a literal pin against the ground, pinned and prone are separate conditions.
As someone who wrestled in highschool (not that the full nelson is legal to perform during a match) I can tell you that a full nelson does not give you the ability to completely immobilize someone. Rather it allows you to control their head and neck, and thats about it. You can't pin someone from it. You can't really do much of anything with it without letting go of it.
And pinning, not in the game context, but in the real world context definitely does mean being pin against something, most often the ground. Of course you could be pinned against another large object, but you would never consider someone pinned just because someone had a hold on another person.
I recognize the difference between the game concept of pinned, and the word concept of pinned, but I don't think the game was built to simulate grappling while flying.