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This may or may not be relevant but keep in mind that you need to specify the action you're readying. You don't just ready "an action".

Also in my opinion, unless the condition is specified more than "when he casts a spell", I'd rule that the PC would need to use it or lose it after succeeding on the Spellcraft check against the Feather Fall.
Now if the condition was something like "casts and offensive spell" or something similar, I'd allow the action the be readied until an offensive spell is identified as being cast, or until the PC's next turn, when theyd decided if the want to act or try readying again.

Thirdly, the tactic the NPC wizard used in this case can be seen as either extremely canny or annoyingly metagamey depending on this GM's past playstyle. If his NPC's frequently can apparently useless spells to throw off ready counters, I'd expect this to happen even if a PC hadn't readied an action. If it only happened when a PC readied to interrupt a casting, I'd consider it metagaming and get frustrated.
I'd at least expect some sort of Sense motive check by the NPC to figure out my character's intent.


I'd let you use Treasure Stitching but I don't think it technically works.

I'd consider switching Enlarge Spell for Reach Spell. Very similar but I think Reach is the better few overall.

How far away does she need to be?

DM_Blake wrote:
vorpaljesus wrote:
The effect is real if you believe it's real. So how does that make you insane?

How could you believe it's real when you KNOW it is not real?"

You, the illusionist, are casting your own illusion spell. You know what it is. You know how it works. You know it's not real. YOU KNOW IT. In which case, there is no way you could believe it's not real, unless you're insane.

My mother used to work at the California State Hospital for the insane. Occasionally she took me out there to volunteer (I read to the inmates). I remember meeting a person who thought he was Charles Lindbergh. My mom had to tell me who that was. The guy really believed it and told me about his flight over the Atlantic. He talked about it all the time. I forgot his real name but it was something like Fred Smith, or whatever, but nothing like Charles Lindbergh. This was 6 years after Lindbergh died and the guy was young enough to be Lindbergh's grandson, maybe, but definitely not a man nearly 80.

That guy believed something that wasn't true. He should have KNOWN it was not true because he should have known who we was and that he didn't actually fly the Spirit of St. Louis over the Atlantic Ocean. But he believed it. And he was locked up in an asylum because he was insane.

When you KNOW something but believe something else, contradictory to what you know, then you're insane. If you're not insane, you really cannot just do it - you can't make yourself believe that which you know to be untrue. Impossible for a sane mind.

Of course, none of this has to do with magic or other forms of mind control which might FORCE a sane person to believe something they should not. But that's outside influences, very different from just making a conscious decision to believe it.

Because the spell actually is real (or at least has a tangible/real effect) if you believe it is real. You KNOW it will have the desired effect if you BELIEVE it will have the desired effect. Id say never underestimate the power of the human mind to delude itself, but this isn't even a delusion, it's a matter of course.

In the case of that patient, the analog to a Pathfinder illusion spell would be, the guy believes he is Charles Lindbergh and therefore actually BECOMES Charles Lindbergh. Because magic.

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Questions like these are the reason I never play an illusionist. Too much room for variation on the DM's part.

I don't think it was defined in 3.5 but did they ever define in Pathfinder what qualifies as "interaction"?

The effect is real if you believe it's real. So how does that make you insane?

"Needs no saving throw" is not the same as "automatically disbelieves" and I'm not sure why they'd choose the text they did if it wasn't to imply that you could choose for yourself to have a save, which you could then intentionally fail.

The only reason I wouldn't allow it is because it makes some illusion spells too versatile. But I have never seen someone quote rules text that doesn't allow the caster to believe the illusion is real.

And I may even allow it if the character was roleplayed well and the player didn't abuse the privilege.

Player was metagaming. He is arguing that he cast EFS before a spell took effect that he didn't even know what it was or where it was targeting. Unless he regularly casts this spell almost every time he sees someone casting, theres no way I'd have allowed him to get it off in response to something he was unaware of. If he's casting this spell in response to something that already took effect, guess what he already took damage.

Furthermore, given the Text of wall of force having to be "continuous and unbroken when formed, if he tried to cast it in the area of the blade barrier, I'd assume the EFS would simply fail.

Unless it's creating a problem balance wise I'd allow all those kinds of things especially at a level where he could just be flying around anyway. Jumping all over the place getting one attack doesn't seem too game breaking to me.

Claxon wrote:
I just dropped by to say, you shouldn't give them pounce.

Oh yeah. This.

Im a big fan of stalking my players with wendigoes

Generally if it's not officially addressed wouldn't you assume it's legal until it is officially addressed? There have already been threads about this combination. The only stipulation is that you can't use these traits to reduce the spell below its original level.

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You can do it :)

If it's based on a Velociraptor it should probably be small sized

Consider casting Slow to limit the number of full attacks they can make.

And really with the party composition the way it is, don't get yourselves into positions to take full attacks.

I was under the impression you use the rod as part of the casting, not part of the preparation.

If not, thats really interesting.

"Metamagic rods hold the essence of a metamagic feat, allowing the user to apply metamagic effects to spells (but not spell-like abilities ) as they are cast."

"As they are cast" to me means you dont prepare them using the rod so unless I'm misunderstanding the question, it doesn't work the way you describe.

It's gonna be hard to drink anything as a lich. I'd go with "bathe in".

Also as has been said, they don't technically stack since each template must be applied to a living creature.

I'd homebrew a variant blood-based lich with some of the qualities of both.

Boom, Hemolich.

Not to mention that if the Seugathi attacked a confused character, the character then attacks his or her assailant.

That's definitely a devious encounter. Seems like a very bad idea to enter that room, but they had a decent reason to be bold, and sometimes you just have to trudge on.

The telepathic bond would almost certainly have afforded any unaffected creatures a sense motive check to notice the effect on the first PC who failed the save. Possibly even the first one who had to make such a save and succeeded.

All in all, sometimes when you head in underprepared, it's supposed to be a very difficult encounter, some players are supposed to run, or you will be TPK'd.

Just my two cents.

And you definitely need to save vs the aura as soon as you enter it.

It seems to me that Force and positive/negative energy (oddly enough) aren't energy types by the game's definition. I'm led to believe this because almost every spell or ability lists the five energy types to choose from and they're electricity, fire, acid, cold and sonic.

Can't find RAW for this.

I'd allow your interpretation in my game though.

I think you'd be better of going the inquisitor route here. It's gonna be hard to use a lot of your class abilities without revealing your class out of game. "He's taking a -2 to his saves because of my Aura of Despair", "I'm smiting good". Everyone will know what you are out of game. At the minimum you'll need to have something to hide your alignment.

Bronsonfu wrote:
Pink Dragon wrote:

Putting ranks in a skill is synonymous with training in a skill. Page 86 CRB:

Investing a rank in a skill represents a measure of training in that skill. You can never have more ranks in a skill than your total number of Hit Dice. In addition, each class has a number of favored skills, called class skills. It is easier for your character to become more proficient in these skills, as they represent part of his professional training and constant practice. You gain a +3 bonus on all class skills that you put ranks into. If you have more than one class and both grant you a class skill bonus, these bonuses do not stack.

The issue with knowledge skills and disable device is being unable to use those skills unless the character does put a rank in them (although there are some exceptions based on circumstances). Page 87 CRB:

Trained Only: If this notation is included in the skill name line, you must have at least 1 rank in the skill to use it. If this notation is omitted, the skill can be used untrained (with a rank of 0). If any special notes apply to trained or untrained use, they are covered in the Untrained section (see below).

Untrained: This entry indicates what a character without at least 1 rank in the skill can do with it. If this entry doesn’t appear, it means that the skill functions normally for untrained characters (if it can be used untrained) or that an untrained character can’t attempt checks with this skill (for skills that are designated “Trained Only”).

Thanks for the content rich post! Really nice seeing how fast people on the message boards post.

Stick around. There's tons to learn here even if you just read other posts. I've learned a lot of rules I didn't know existed and strategies I never gave thought to that have added fun and accuracy to our games :)

Adamantine, being so hard, takes more effirt to work with I guess

I like to think of it more as punching or smacking yourself in the head to try to clear your mind

Looks like it would work on undead?

SlimGauge wrote:
Orfamay Quest wrote:
Breath of life. It can be cast on a recently deceased creature, which is an object, or on a living creature.

Target: creature touched

Odd, because as you say, corpses are objects. This might be a case where an oil could work (because I don't think you can do the "feed an unconscious creature a potion" thing to a "creature that has died within one round").

Wouldn't you need to craft an elixir since BoL is too high a level to be a potion anyway?

I would like it better as a move action to move the shackles I think.

Sounds right to me

Refine improvised weapon looks like a good candidate for a wand

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10+Spell Level+Minimum ability modifier required to cast spells of that level

Gwen Smith wrote:
vorpaljesus wrote:

My lyrakien azata familiar has freedom of movement.I need her to fly into a purple worm's stomach and heal our rogue who has been swallowed whole. What kind of check is she going to have to make to use her cure light wounds SLA or use a wand?

PS there's also a dire tiger in there with the rogue :P

1) There is no concentration check for using a wand (or other spell trigger item).

2) For the SLA, it would normally be the purple worm's CMB+10+spell level (i.e., level of the equivalent spell). Since you have Freedom of Movement, your GM might be nice and waive the concentration check.

3) Why doesn't the dire tiger claw his way out? One full attack + rake should solve the whole problem.

The tiger will claw them out next round but the rogue will be close to death by then. Guess I'll just shout at the Oracle to ready an action to heal when the rogue falls out.

Playing a Samsaran with the Mystic Past Life alternate racial trait is probably the best way to go about this.

Suthainn wrote:

A better question might be, "What is your party doing wrong?" because at 12th level the Swashbuckler should be doing fantastic damage and taking little, the Ranger should be destroying whatever is most dangerous the moment a fight starts, the Oradin can still provide great damage via Smites whilst ensuring no-one else gets low and even the rogue should be able to do *something* like trips and disarms (or if they stick to flanking with the Swashbuckler, decent damage). This plus whatever style of Wizard you were playing seems like a great party with solid melee, ranged, magic and skill/face roles all covered.

Since it seems like it's not working out however, lets try and fix the problem at the source rather than create a bigger bandaid. What typically happens in combats, how are they challenging, what seems to go wrong that you feel that most fights are harder than they should be?

If nothing's going wrong, then perhaps the GM is just overestimating what you guys can handle, maybe talk to them about how every fight feels like an end boss and that's just not fun all the time.

Great points and I think this gets to the crux of the issue as far as encounters are concerned.

The DM maxes hit points for all creatures. I think he also Advances all the creatures, or at least the main one or two for each encounter.

I probably worry too much about the swashbuckler since he can handle himself really well normally. He does do really solid damage when he doesn't have trouble hitting (he usually hits a good percentage) and he has a few tricks up his sleeve. Main problems are: failing will saves, opponents have maxed HP and we don't so he ends up having to use a lot of panache points it seems standing toe to toe with the Large and Huge creatures we face at this level. I was enlarging him for awhile to help him with reach and he asked me not to (understandably) because it lowered his damage a little bit. So I stopped. He picked up some scarf type thing to increase his reach but it either costs panache or uses an action for him or has limited use.

The ranger is a very creative player but he's built into Improved Snap Shot and when creatures arent coming at him because they're busy with other things, this seems to be an underutilized feat tree. I feel he'd get more out of rapid shot and manyshot.

The Oradin, I think, feels he has relegated himself to a healing role. He has a TON of money (60k) that he's saving up to "buy an awesome sword". He spends most of the time in battle waiting to heal people, which I've suggested to everyone could be better spent doing other things but they say without his healing we wouldn't have survived so far. Which we wouldn't have but if he were putting put some damage it might be even better. I've told him Id buy him a bow so at least he could ranged smite evil but he hasn't taken me up. I think this is a case of the player not being used to playing this part in a party, maybe I could use some help getting through to him how he could contribute more tactically. Typically he casts bless and spiritual weapon then waits to channel.

The rogue hasn't had a chance to be very roguey just yet. He spent a lot of money on a rust monster antenna whip which our DM is letting him use normally as a weapon, but i feel like we won't be fighting a lot of enemies where that will be very useful as It doesn't even work against magical armor. Its such a cool idea though we were all like "awesome!" When he mentioned it. He's had trouble hitting and didn't put a lot of ranks in acrobatics to help him move into flanking position.

For my own part I'm unhappy with my Wizard. I lack damage capability except for my summons. I have augment summoning and I just retrained for superior summoning but haven't had a chance to use it. I play him poorly. I feel like I should summon and everyone says "what no haste?", I try to hit with slow but it doesn't connect often enough for whatever reason. 4TH level spells seem like a dead slot to me as i have enervation but nobody else is targeting their saves. So it helps but not as much as it could on the same round. I have Telekinetic Charge but the other PCs dont take kindly to me dictating their positioning. I feel like Im poor at choosing what to summon and when, the versatility has helped us get through weird situations but hasnt added much to combat capability. Ive rolled poorly but even a pouncing Dire Tiger has felt lack luster. I think a lot of it comes down to the 1 round casting time. I also don't like adding more combatants at a certain point. It was nice when we had 3 PCs but now it's more chaotic and time consuming than I'd like. Glitterdust, grease, create pit, web, protection from evil, bralani azatas have saved the day several times but i feel like Im lacking the well timed punch when we really need it. Hoping arcanist will help my save DCs a little, and this new build will give me some damage options and a better ability to incapacitate the enemy.

Kudaku wrote:
vorpaljesus wrote:
These guys are my best friends so I don't care what they play or even if we die in a horrible TPK, just looking for ways I can contribute more and prevent that.

Fair enough. I have some concerns that increasing your personal optimization will only create a bigger gap between the characters and will cause more difficulty in balancing the encounters as a whole and you may be better off helping the less mechanically inclined players improve their characters, but that's really something you should discuss with your fellow players and your GM. I don't know your party dynamics.

It would be helpful to have your character build, especially what race you're playing as well as a list of your exploits and metamagic feats. If you have any idea what kind of campaign or adventure path you'll be playing in, that's also useful information. Some spells are mostly lackluster but are highly useful in specific settings. That said, here are some initial thoughts.

Consider picking up Reduce Person. The entire party seems likely to see some benefit from it.

Charm and compulsion spells can help your group if they're lacking a good face character. Similarly divination spells such as Contact Other Plane can help flesh out your information gathering department.

Create Pit is an excellent spell at low levels, but as you continue to level up you'll see more and more enemies that have access to flight.

While blasting is not an ideal option for an arcanist, you should have at least one decent AoE damage spell to deal with minions and swarms. Fireball is the classic, but feel free to pick whatever you think is appropriate.

Overland Flight is a great spell. Cast it at the start of the day, then use Quick Study to prepare a different spell.

I tend to prefer Wall of Force to Wall of Stone, since the stone wall is very fragile. The force wall can also be dismissed, which is nice if you accidentally walled off something you shouldn't have - like an escape route.

You need at least one 6th...

All great suggestions, thank you. I'm not particularly concerned about increasing my personal optimization, but, as you say, helping the party perform as a whole.

That's a really smart use of overland flight and quick study, I planned on picking that spell up and you reminded me.

Wall of force vs wall of stone was something I debated and probably will continue to. WoF has always been one of my favorite spells.

3rd level blasts are hard for me to justify as it competes with Haste and Slow which I plan to get, and fly to help if it's needed as well. That's such a loaded level I think I'll have to end up getting scrolls to scribe into my book and have around for quick study at least.

Charm and compulsion spells are a good idea too, I really should grab a couple although I feel like I may need to change my build to give them a batter chance of working and I always worry about immunity to mind affecting.

By the way, my build:

Magical lineage (suffocation), so I can prepare persistent suffocation in my 6th level slot
Wayang spell hunter (battering blast), so I can use dazing battering blast in my 5th level slot

Persistent Spell
Imp Init
Craft wondrous item
Craft rod
Spell focus (necro)
Spell specialization (battering blast)

Quick study
Potent magic
Metamagic knowledge (dazing spell)
Dimensional slide

I'm an Elf with fleet footed amd darkvision.
I wear an otherworldly kimono for the boost to caster level checks and saves.
I have a normal rod of quicken.
Permanent Arcane sight and See invisibility.

I do have concerns about using my highest level slot for a Save or Suck targeting Fort, but I'm hoping it will be useful in a decent amount of encounters.

I plan to take Greater Metamagic Knowledge (maximize) at 13th level, switch my spell specialization to Chain Lightning at 14th level, take Spell Perfection for it at 15th.

I'm aware I'm far from optimized, we like to play our concepts first and foremost. I do definitely like advice and am willing to tweak it so I appreciate the consideration.

Maybe I should go a little more toward buffing or at least have that option.

I just want to be able to get people out of trouble and set up encounters to make them a lot easier for us, and also to have options to shut opponents down quick if need to. I also find myself having to mitigate awfulness like curses and mind affecting spells a lot, even if it's just with a wand of prot from evil to get my guys a new save.

You've given me a lot to think about so far, I really appreciate it.

Kudaku wrote:
Based on your post, respect for your fellow party members.

Good point! They actually play really well it's just that mechanically a lot of encounters are difficult for us and even my current wizard isn't pulling his weight which is why I've asked my GM to allow me to roll up a new character.

These guys are my best friends so I don't care what they play or even if we die in a horrible TPK, just looking for ways I can contribute more and prevent that.

Just doing a quick check with you guys since I'm lazy. Here's my spell loadout so far, I have 10k gold left for scrolls and adding to my spellbook. Party is (unfortunately) a swashbuckler, ranged dps ranger, rogue using a whip and rapier (ugh), and a healbot Oradin.

1st Level: Protection from Evil, Grease, Mage Armor, Shield, Unseen Servant, True Strike, Liberating Command, Magic missile, Ray of Enfeeblement, Crafter's Fortune, Vanish, Feather Fall

Level 2: False Life, Glitterdusf, Mirror Image, Create pit

Level 3: Haste, Dispel Magic, Battering blast, Halt Undead, Fly

Level 4: Emergency Force sphere, Enervation, D Door, Confusion

Level 5: Suffocation, Teleport, Telekinesis, Wall of stone

Level 6: Contingency, Greater Dispel Magic

I have no advice. But my 10 year old nephew is very interested in this.

KainPen wrote:
I say the rouge just cut his way out, sure he has a dagger, cure light not going to be enough to mitigate the damage. is't it automatic sneak attack since the inside has no dex. not to mention if their is a dire tiger in there why has it not cut it self out yet, slashing around in there with all it's natural attacks. tiger could be out with a single bite attack, not to mention it out in 1 full round of attacks for sure then the worm can't eat nothing for a while.

We all laughed at (and had sympathy for) the rogue because he neglected to purchase a dagger haha. He has no light weapon on his person. I'm counting on the tiger (my summon) to cut an opening. But I'm worried the rogue will die before he can get out. So even if the weak cure spell hits in time to stabilize him or keep him from being at -CON for one extra round it would help enormously.

And it's what the Azata would try anyway since she considers herself just as much a hero as the rest of the group

Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Well Slow is a 3rd level spell and confusion is a 4th level spell.

But I agree Fear>confusion when you have SF- Necromancy and (I hope) Potent Magic.

Yeah just trying to avoid redundancy even though they are different levels. And i do have potent magic.

What I dont like about fear is the shape of the area and the range. And chasing down targets. But I might give it a shot since it fits thematically. Going for a Sith type guy

If I'm only going to prepare one of these which do you suggest and why?

Also looking at Howling Agony. This is for my Twilight Sage Arcanist with Spell focus Necromancy.

Please and thanks

My lyrakien azata familiar has freedom of movement.I need her to fly into a purple worm's stomach and heal our rogue who has been swallowed whole. What kind of check is she going to have to make to use her cure light wounds SLA or use a wand?

PS there's also a dire tiger in there with the rogue :P

CampinCarl9127 wrote:

Personally I run my games that you need to rest, in game, in order to level up. Otherwise silly things like this come into play.

I would say the real answer is "ask your GM".

I of course will ask my GM and go along with whatever he decides.

I just thought it would be helpful to come here and see other opinions/rulings as he is a less experienced GM and probably doesn't have his mind made up about something like this as it hasn't come up yet.

Thanks for all the help so far!

"A character advances in level as soon as he earns enough experience points to do so—typically, this occurs at the end of a game session, when your GM hands out that session's experience point awards."

This is the only relevant text I can find on the SRD. We were given XP at the end of the session, he told us to level our characters before the next session.

Again, I want to use the new slot(s) I've gained to prepare a spell I've already known for two levels, NOT to prepare a one of the two new spells I gained upon levelling to 12, as I agree I'd need to take the time to add those to my Spellbook before I can prepare them.

Would your answer be different if its a spell I already know?

What the title says. We've just hit level twelve after a battle with some guecubu and a few of us have been hit with their curse. As a twelfth level wizard I gain a new fifth level and sixth level spell slot. Can I now prepare break enchantment in those slots without resting?

Should've had a scroll handy haha.

What are you creating an illusion of if you're casting most enchantment spells? This spell makes very little sense to me.

They fight a dragon who is being assisted by an invisible bard.
After they defeat the dragon the bard insists on serving them. He is bound by honor or some curse to follow and record and sing the legends of the most powerful creatures in the land.

He follows them around singing constantly about every menial activity they do,even going so far as to narrate in song their action when they're trying to be sneaky or deceptive. Think Elan from OotS or Robin's minstrel from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. That level of annoying.

If the PCs try to kill him or tie him up or otherwise dispose of him, he'll grow mournful and mention in a song how they want to get rid of him despite the faxt that he is in possession of a portable hole which has the dragon's hoard within it.

He'll gladly reward them with the loot if they find him a more worthy master or masters to sing the legends of

My wizard has the lyrakien and she's been ridiculously useful. That's a very fast fly speed, especially when hasted, plus FoM. She's been able to chase guys down and at least let us know where they go after they escape from a battle.

Truespeech is super handy.

The greater invisibility of the faerie dragon shouldn't be overlooked though.

You wont go wrong either way.

Try chopping down a tre(ant) with a rapier

It just doesn't work the way you want it to and you won't find support here on these forums. Devs have weighed in (again).

This has to be a troll post at this point

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