You know you're in for a treat when you get to the table and...


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...when you sit down at the table and the GM tells you he doesn't use maps and minis, going with theater of the mind games.

...when the GM explains that his planning equates to two or three sentences, wings the entire session and you have an enjoyable session.

...when GMs does not allow tablets, smart phones, or other widgets to be used during the session except for emergency purposes...ie injured family member or the like.

...everyone plays the same class.

...GM provides pre-gen characters that are solid, but are far from optimized.

...When the GM states that story is more important than detail.

...Anytime the GM states that the only you can do when a PC dies is to look through there pockets for loose change and other loot.

Liberty's Edge

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- Being at a convention, GMing Echoes of the Overwatched Table two. Group of players I GMed Penumbral Accords for in the morning, bails on Table 1 to sit at my table again.

- Group takes being Pathfinders and being in character so seriously they go to the Lodge or City Library to do research. They found out at my table for the first time that it actually gives a mechanical benefit of +4 to a knowledge. They have been doing this for 4 levels.

Dark Archive 4/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Upper Midwest aka Silbeg

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Zach Williams wrote:


- Group takes being Pathfinders and being in character so seriously they go to the Lodge or City Library to do research. They found out at my table for the first time that it actually gives a mechanical benefit of +4 to a knowledge. They have been doing this for 4 levels.

Huh? What?

Reference to the rule that allows this? I wanna use it!

Sczarni

I would like to know that too. If legal for pfs especially.

Sczarni

Your character has to roll a natural 20 to avoid negative con and death when the witch who goes right before you does a heal hex on you.

Silver Crusade

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Gendo wrote:

...when you sit down at the table and the GM tells you he doesn't use maps and minis, going with theater of the mind games.

...everyone plays the same class.

...GM provides pre-gen characters that are solid, but are far from optimized.

If I sat down at a table I really wouldn't know that I'm in for a treat, but rather I'd be very concerned. Playing without a map can go horribly wrong in combats when people assume different things. A Tier 1-5 scenario with nothing but wizards can be deadly as hell (not to talk about a Tier 3-7 with nothing but fighters) and the pre-gen thing sounds like a GM who creates his own pre-gens. Which is illegal if they're not level 1.

Maybe you just left out some details, but I really wouldn't know I'm in for a treat. I'd be very, very worried.

The Exchange 5/5

Gendo wrote:

...when you sit down at the table and the GM tells you he doesn't use maps and minis, going with theater of the mind games.

...when the GM explains that his planning equates to two or three sentences, wings the entire session and you have an enjoyable session.

...when GMs does not allow tablets, smart phones, or other widgets to be used during the session except for emergency purposes...ie injured family member or the like.

...everyone plays the same class.

...GM provides pre-gen characters that are solid, but are far from optimized.

...When the GM states that story is more important than detail.

...Anytime the GM states that the only you can do when a PC dies is to look through there pockets for loose change and other loot.

every one of these above would concern me greatly. I have encountered some of the worst "train wreck" games with each of them,...

wait, is Gendo just kidding? was this a bit of sarcasm that I missed?

Dark Archive 4/5

I'm thinking Gendo didn't realize this was in the PFS section...


I think he was using the 'you are in for a treat' phrase in its sarcastic meaning instead of its literal meaning. Gendo, if this is true, you may be interested in checking this particular forum for a "you know you're in trouble" thread that's been popular for the last few weeks. That's what spawned this one.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

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When, in the midst of hearing all of the players' panicked reactions to your monsters shredding the party, you overhear cries of "This is great!" and "I love this game!"

5/5 5/55/55/5

..when you sit down at the table and the GM tells you he doesn't use maps and minis, going with theater of the mind games.

Oh hell no. If your class relies at all on positioning (rogues, reach fighters) this is going in the OTHER thread.

Shadow Lodge 5/5 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Northwest aka WalterGM

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...you're GMing and the players offer to share their snacks.

...everyone is already talking in character.

...everybody agrees to enter Bonekeep, after you've read the warning text.


...you hear "We've only got so much time, so we'll probably have to handwave a combat or two. Initiative just slows everything down."

-Matt

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

BigNorseWolf wrote:

..when you sit down at the table and the GM tells you he doesn't use maps and minis, going with theater of the mind games.

Oh hell no. If your class relies at all on positioning (rogues, reach fighters) this is going in the OTHER thread.

I couldn't stand "theater of the mind" even in OD&D. At least, not for combat. We started marking locations on graph paper and when Heritage Miniatures came out with their "Tolkien" line, we started using those. Too many claims of "I wasn't standing in the room when the fireball went off."

Of course, I was coming from a war gaming background at the time. But, then again, so were Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
trollbill wrote:

I couldn't stand "theater of the mind" even in OD&D. At least, not for combat. We started marking locations on graph paper and when Heritage Miniatures came out with their "Tolkien" line, we started using those. Too many claims of "I wasn't standing in the room when the fireball went off."

Of course, I was coming from a war gaming background at the time. But, then again, so were Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

We drew everything on butcher paper to 1 inch scale. Measuring tapes and compasses were used to determine movement, range, and area effects -- after declaring actions.

I miss it. The visible grid leads to far too much meta-gaming in my opinion.

You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"

The Exchange 5/5

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Will Johnson wrote:
trollbill wrote:

I couldn't stand "theater of the mind" even in OD&D. At least, not for combat. We started marking locations on graph paper and when Heritage Miniatures came out with their "Tolkien" line, we started using those. Too many claims of "I wasn't standing in the room when the fireball went off."

Of course, I was coming from a war gaming background at the time. But, then again, so were Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.

We drew everything on butcher paper to 1 inch scale. Measuring tapes and compasses were used to determine movement, range, and area effects -- after declaring actions.

I miss it. The visible grid leads to far too much meta-gaming in my opinion.

You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"

calculating the volumne of the fireball... "So, after you have been shrunk yourself down to fit into the 1' tall tunnels to fight the grimlins, you throw a fireball in a room that was ten times as tall as you? It's a 10' cube room ... wow - I think you just flushed all the tunnels leading into here too and out into the main dungeon... what's the formula for calculating the volumne of a sphere again?"

Yeah, I remember those days...

5/5

nosig wrote:

calculating the volume of the fireball... "So, after you have been shrunk yourself down to fit into the 1' tall tunnels to fight the gremlins, you throw a fireball in a room that was ten times as tall as you? It's a 10' cube room ... wow - I think you just flushed all the tunnels leading into here too and out into the main dungeon... what's the formula for calculating the volume of a sphere again?"

Yeah, I remember those days...

Lol, I was reminiscing about this with some young whippersnappers players this weekend when I ran them through Eyes of the Ten over two days.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
nosig wrote:

calculating the volumne of the fireball... "So, after you have been shrunk yourself down to fit into the 1' tall tunnels to fight the grimlins, you throw a fireball in a room that was ten times as tall as you? It's a 10' cube room ... wow - I think you just flushed all the tunnels leading into here too and out into the main dungeon... what's the formula for calculating the volumne of a sphere again?"

Yeah, I remember those days...

We didn't bother recalculating. Instead, all spell areas were resolved by simply asking the caster to indicate the point of explosion and we'd break out the compass. Fireball used a 4 inch setting.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

Will Johnson wrote:
nosig wrote:

calculating the volumne of the fireball... "So, after you have been shrunk yourself down to fit into the 1' tall tunnels to fight the grimlins, you throw a fireball in a room that was ten times as tall as you? It's a 10' cube room ... wow - I think you just flushed all the tunnels leading into here too and out into the main dungeon... what's the formula for calculating the volumne of a sphere again?"

Yeah, I remember those days...

We didn't bother recalculating. Instead, all spell areas were resolved by simply asking the caster to indicate the point of explosion and we'd break out the compass. Fireball used a 4 inch setting.

That's no fun. How is the party Wizard, er, excuse me, make that party Magic-User, supposed to kill himself and half the party when he underestimates the size of the room he is throwing a fireball into and the backdraft from a 33,000 cubic foot fireball rushes down the corridor?

5/5

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Or bouncing the lightning bolt off the back wall and back at you, so long as you stand JUST far enough away that it hit everyone in front of you twice?

The Exchange 5/5

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Dan Simons wrote:
Or bouncing the lightning bolt off the back wall and back at you, so long as you stand JUST far enough away that it hit everyone in front of you twice?

"wait - you triggered a wand of wonder in 5 by 10 foot room, and it generated a lightning bolt? wow... let me figure exactly how many times it bounced thru you...."

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Will Johnson wrote:
You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"

I'll never understand the attachment to this style of gaming. Well, I guess it could just be nostalgia, which can indeed be a powerful force.

Though it gets really weird every now and then when I hear someone complain that the grid somehow reduces roleplaying, and then wants to see a professional spellcaster with superhuman/magically-enhanced intelligence flinging explosions around haphazardly. :/

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

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Will Johnson wrote:
You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"

I have. I've also heard it when I break out the 40ft radius template for entangle and the druid players eyes go wide.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/5

trollbill wrote:

That's no fun. How is the party Wizard, er, excuse me, make that party Magic-User, supposed to kill himself and half the party when he underestimates the size of the room he is throwing a fireball into and the backdraft from a 33,000 cubic foot fireball rushes down the corridor?

When the players actually understand math things like that which were intended to limit spells really made them significantly more powerful. Toss in some resist fire spells and suddenly a single fireball cleans out entire dungeons.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Jiggy wrote:
Will Johnson wrote:
You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"

I'll never understand the attachment to this style of gaming. Well, I guess it could just be nostalgia, which can indeed be a powerful force.

Though it gets really weird every now and then when I hear someone complain that the grid somehow reduces roleplaying, and then wants to see a professional spellcaster with superhuman/magically-enhanced intelligence flinging explosions around haphazardly. :/

I see it the exact opposite way. I stifle a complaint every time I see a caster whip out a template to figure out exactly which intersection to center their fireball so that it captures as many enemies as possible, while missing their allies by mere inches.

Heck, Marvel had to retroactively include Cyclops' spatial awareness as a mutant power of his, just to add some sort of versilimitude to the improbable accuracy of his beams.

There would be a lot of uncertainty when dropping a 33,000 cubic foot fireball onto a battlefield from 900' away. Without the grid, that level of uncertainty was reflected, and usually safely accounted for.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

Jiggy wrote:
Will Johnson wrote:
You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"

I'll never understand the attachment to this style of gaming. Well, I guess it could just be nostalgia, which can indeed be a powerful force.

It's mostly nostalgia. That and maybe old grognard bragging rights.

"Why when I was a kid we had to play D&D with chits for dice, rocks for minis and we had to do math to calculate things. And we liked it!"

The Exchange 5/5

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trollbill wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Will Johnson wrote:
You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"

I'll never understand the attachment to this style of gaming. Well, I guess it could just be nostalgia, which can indeed be a powerful force.

It's mostly nostalgia. That and maybe old grognard bragging rights.

"Why when I was a kid we had to play D&D with chits for dice, rocks for minis and we had to do math to calculate things. And we liked it!"

"wait, you had rocks? we had to make do with clods of dirt! and we used scraps of paper to..."

nurse comes to wheel the old gamer back to his room

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne aka trollbill

Will Johnson wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Will Johnson wrote:
You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"

I'll never understand the attachment to this style of gaming. Well, I guess it could just be nostalgia, which can indeed be a powerful force.

Though it gets really weird every now and then when I hear someone complain that the grid somehow reduces roleplaying, and then wants to see a professional spellcaster with superhuman/magically-enhanced intelligence flinging explosions around haphazardly. :/

I see it the exact opposite way. I stifle a complaint every time I see a caster whip out a template to figure out exactly which intersection to center their fireball so that it captures as many enemies as possible, while missing their allies by mere inches.

Heck, Marvel had to retroactively include Cyclops' spatial awareness as a mutant power of his, just to add some sort of versilimitude to the improbable accuracy of his beams.

There would be a lot of uncertainty when dropping a 33,000 cubic foot fireball onto a battlefield from 900' away. Without the grid, that level of uncertainty was reflected, and usually safely accounted for.

In my old 3E home game I made casters make a Spellcraft check to avoid catching someone in the very edge of a spell if its AoE ended right at the edge of their square.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

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Will Johnson wrote:
I see it the exact opposite way. I stifle a complaint every time I see a caster whip out a template to figure out exactly which intersection to center their fireball so that it captures as many enemies as possible, while missing their allies by mere inches.

If I wanted to stop that I'd just say 'pick your target and I will put the template down. No backsies'. I understand this doesn't help when you're at someone elses table though.

5/5

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Sorry for the derail.

To try to get back on track:

• Brand new players: I love running games for brand new players.
• Kids at my table: Even better than new adult players! Kids have an infectious sense of wonder and joy when playing.
• Role-players: When they are in character from the beginning, I know I'm in for a fun game.
• Every other Thursday: I run a Rise of the Runelords game for co-workers that is 1/3 unwinding, 1/3 drinking, and 1/3 gaming. It's a true joy to attend.

Scarab Sages 5/5

I'm sitting there!
I'm always fun! (though sometimes it costs extra!)

5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere aka Rei

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Will Johnson wrote:
You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"
I have. I've also heard it when I break out the 40ft radius template for entangle and the druid players eyes go wide.

Had a moment like this today when I saw pyrotechnics used for the first time. "That has a radius of what?"

Also happens every time I consider adding spike stones or fire storm to my druid's spell list.

Shadow Lodge

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...when the game starts out with the party trying the Chewbacca Gambit and it works.

5/5

But everyone knows the Chewie manoeuvre never works!

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Will Johnson wrote:
You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"
I have. I've also heard it when I break out the 40ft radius template for entangle and the druid players eyes go wide.

This. Right here.

And sometimes it's not even the area of the spell, but the shape. I can't tell you how many times at one of my tables a caster has uttered "uh oh" when realizing this his or her cone spells (color spray, burning hands) ended up getting at least one other party member.

Caster: "Oh, no, I can totally get the bad guys and miss my entire party."

Me (putting down spell template, which clearly includes at least one other party member, no matter the spell's point of origin): "How?"

Caster: "Uh oh."

Me: Reflex saving throws, please.

It happens far too often for my tastes.


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When the GM has a bag of kettle corn and you see the four people with the most dirty minds at the table.

The Exchange 5/5

Mark Stratton wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Will Johnson wrote:
You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"
I have. I've also heard it when I break out the 40ft radius template for entangle and the druid players eyes go wide.

This. Right here.

And sometimes it's not even the area of the spell, but the shape. I can't tell you how many times at one of my tables a caster has uttered "uh oh" when realizing this his or her cone spells (color spray, burning hands) ended up getting at least one other party member.

Caster: "Oh, no, I can totally get the bad guys and miss my entire party."

Me (putting down spell template, which clearly includes at least one other party member, no matter the spell's point of origin): "How?"

Caster: "Uh oh."

Me: Reflex saving throws, please.

It happens far too often for my tastes.

realizing this is PVP, how do you resolve it as the Judge?

I've encountered a few players who seem to take great delight in hitting thier companions (not so much in PFS where it is prohibited - but even there at times...). One of these guys would just love to have the judge say that. And it would get kind of old the third or fourth time he "fired short", purely "by accident".

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

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I don't believe that PvP, in and of itself, is what is prohibited in PFS. Killing characters most certainly is.

Color Spray doesn't kill characters, so I let it go. Same with Entagle. So, those types of spells, I let them fire off as normal.

For spells that deal damage, I don't let it happen unless they get the other player's permission. (And sometimes, they do.)

Mark

The Exchange 5/5

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Mark Stratton wrote:

I don't believe that PvP, in and of itself, is what is prohibited in PFS. Killing characters most certainly is.

Color Spray doesn't kill characters, so I let it go. Same with Entagle. So, those types of spells, I let them fire off as normal.

For spells that deal damage, I don't let it happen unless they get the other player's permission. (And sometimes, they do.)

Mark

I have seen a PC in PFS use flash powder in a melee, when his companions were fighting zombies. He did this even after it was pointed out that the zombies would not be effected by it. "I don't know that - I don't have knowledge Religion". In other words, he blinded 3 other PCs in the middle of a melee... "Opps! that didn't work so good did it...I back up."..."Zombie is +2 to hit you and what's your flatfooted AC?" (this was in PFS). We almost lost two of the PCs there...

I've had a "friendly" sorcerer Color Spray our front line fighter (at 1st level) in front of Orcs - who killed my cleric when he moved forward to prevent the coupe. (this was back in LG days).

But it is even worse because it penalizes the newer players over the older players. I have been playing this game for longer than many of the people I play with have been alive. When the 13 year old girl beside me says "I cast color spray!" I'm going to tell her "you'll catch your sister in that - is that what you want to do?" rather than say "your sister just color sprayed you, make your will save."

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There is a complete lack of understanding by most GMs regarding the "PvP" rules. I've had a GM flat out tell the Alchemist they can't throw bombs into combat, even with Precise Bombs, because they "might miss" and splash on other players.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Will Johnson wrote:
You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"
I have. I've also heard it when I break out the 40ft radius template for entangle and the druid players eyes go wide.

First time I fired off stone call was this. We started calling it "Rey's low yield tactical nuke."

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/5

The Morphling wrote:
There is a complete lack of understanding by most GMs regarding the "PvP" rules. I've had a GM flat out tell the Alchemist they can't throw bombs into combat, even with Precise Bombs, because they "might miss" and splash on other players.

The rules are (deliberately, I presume ) fairly open to GM interpretation.

Up here, we generally interpret them as "the target has veto power over things that can harm it done by fellow PCs". We tell that to new players. I have NEVER seen a case where there has been an issue. One player will ask the other player if they're OK being fireballed OR a player will volunteer that they're fine being fireballed because they have evasion.

Just having them rule means it never comes up :-)

Scarab Sages 4/5

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pauljathome wrote:
The Morphling wrote:
There is a complete lack of understanding by most GMs regarding the "PvP" rules. I've had a GM flat out tell the Alchemist they can't throw bombs into combat, even with Precise Bombs, because they "might miss" and splash on other players.

The rules are (deliberately, I presume ) fairly open to GM interpretation.

Up here, we generally interpret them as "the target has veto power over things that can harm it done by fellow PCs". We tell that to new players. I have NEVER seen a case where there has been an issue. One player will ask the other player if they're OK being fireballed OR a player will volunteer that they're fine being fireballed because they have evasion.

Just having them rule means it never comes up :-)

That's the way I've generally seen it go, too. Often, the player whose character might suffer damage is the one trying to convince the one dealing the damage that it's ok. "Go ahead and throw the fireball, I've got Fire Resistance/Evasion/etc."

My ninja was recently the subject of a Dominate Person (yeah, ninja saving throws). The first thing I did was turn the the player of the Sorcerer (who I nearly killed in the first round of the Dominate) and told him to do what he had to to stay alive. Several Black Tentacles later, both of us lived, though it was close for us both, too. If it came down to one or the other, I'd rather have seen my character killed while dominated than to have her kill a party member.

The Exchange 5/5

pauljathome wrote:
The Morphling wrote:
There is a complete lack of understanding by most GMs regarding the "PvP" rules. I've had a GM flat out tell the Alchemist they can't throw bombs into combat, even with Precise Bombs, because they "might miss" and splash on other players.

The rules are (deliberately, I presume ) fairly open to GM interpretation.

Up here, we generally interpret them as "the target has veto power over things that can harm it done by fellow PCs". We tell that to new players. I have NEVER seen a case where there has been an issue. One player will ask the other player if they're OK being fireballed OR a player will volunteer that they're fine being fireballed because they have evasion.

Just having them rule means it never comes up :-)

but the posts above were stating that the Judge should not give the target that veto power. Just impose the spell effect on the PC when another PC goes "opps!"...

The Exchange 5/5

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Ferious Thune wrote:
pauljathome wrote:
The Morphling wrote:
There is a complete lack of understanding by most GMs regarding the "PvP" rules. I've had a GM flat out tell the Alchemist they can't throw bombs into combat, even with Precise Bombs, because they "might miss" and splash on other players.

The rules are (deliberately, I presume ) fairly open to GM interpretation.

Up here, we generally interpret them as "the target has veto power over things that can harm it done by fellow PCs". We tell that to new players. I have NEVER seen a case where there has been an issue. One player will ask the other player if they're OK being fireballed OR a player will volunteer that they're fine being fireballed because they have evasion.

Just having them rule means it never comes up :-)

That's the way I've generally seen it go, too. Often, the player whose character might suffer damage is the one trying to convince the one dealing the damage that it's ok. "Go ahead and throw the fireball, I've got Fire Resistance/Evasion/etc."

My ninja was recently the subject of a Dominate Person (yeah, ninja saving throws). The first thing I did was turn the the player of the Sorcerer (who I nearly killed in the first round of the Dominate) and told him to do what he had to to stay alive. Several Black Tentacles later, both of us lived, though it was close for us both, too. If it came down to one or the other, I'd rather have seen my character killed while dominated than to have her kill a party member.

I know a sorcerer who routinely asks other party members (those with low Will saves for sure) if they would like him to cast Dominate Person on them right after the mission briefing. That way anyone Dominating them later "will have to fight me for control of you, and I have a grate opposed CHA check".

3/5

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nosig wrote:
I know a sorcerer who routinely asks other party members (those with low Will saves for sure) if they would like him to cast Dominate Person on them right after the mission briefing. That way anyone Dominating them later "will have to fight me for control of you, and I have a grate opposed CHA check".

That works great until someone who did some scrying knows about that and dominates the sorcerer (cause sorcerers are known for their strong will saves). then I have the entire party dominated with one spell.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

nosig wrote:
but the posts above were stating that the Judge should not give the target that veto power. Just impose the spell effect on the PC when another PC goes "opps!"...

I am not sure which post(s) you are referring to, nosig, but in my case, I give them that veto power (in PFS play, not in regular play) when the spell actually causes damage or potentially will kill the target.

Things which impose conditions (blind, entangled), I don't consider to be in that same category, so I let the spell take effect and run its course.

As for items like dominate, spells which in and of themselves do not damage or cause death to a PC, fall into my second category.

I have yet to have a player at any of my PFS tables complain about it.

I will add (and I omitted this earlier) that if the player who is playing the spellcaster is new or relatively new to PFS (and I know they are either by them telling me or watching them play), I do give them the, "you know, this can effect your party members, too."

I realize my perspective is just that, mine, but I think the way I adjudicate these cases is balanced.

The Exchange 5/5

Mark Stratton wrote:
nosig wrote:
but the posts above were stating that the Judge should not give the target that veto power. Just impose the spell effect on the PC when another PC goes "opps!"...

I am not sure which post(s) you are referring to, nosig, but in my case, I give them that veto power (in PFS play, not in regular play) when the spell actually causes damage or potentially will kill the target.

Things which impose conditions (blind, entangled), I don't consider to be in that same category, so I let the spell take effect and run its course.

As for items like dominate, spells which in and of themselves do not damage or cause death to a PC, fall into my second category.

I have yet to have a player at any of my PFS tables complain about it.

I will add (and I omitted this earlier) that if the player who is playing the spellcaster is new or relatively new to PFS (and I know they are either by them telling me or watching them play), I do give them the, "you know, this can effect your party members, too."

I realize my perspective is just that, mine, but I think the way I adjudicate these cases is balanced.

This was from your example right?

Me (putting down spell template, which clearly includes at least one other party member, no matter the spell's point of origin): "How?"

Caster: "Uh oh."

Me: Reflex saving throws, please.

did I miss something between the "Uh oh." and the "Reflex saving throws,"?

Sorry if I did. From your example I assumed that you would give no "take backs" when the Caster realized that he had clipped a PC.

The Exchange 5/5

The only time I can recall having lost a PC to "friendly fire" it was due to a Color Spray that dropped our front Line Tank - leaving my Cleric covering his body to prevent a coupe... so I guess the fact that the spell didn't due damage was ok? After all...
"Color Spray doesn't kill characters, so I let it go. Same with Entagle. So, those types of spells, I let them fire off as normal."

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