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...when you sit down at the table and the GM tells you he doesn't use maps and minis, going with theater of the mind games.
...when the GM explains that his planning equates to two or three sentences, wings the entire session and you have an enjoyable session.
...when GMs does not allow tablets, smart phones, or other widgets to be used during the session except for emergency purposes...ie injured family member or the like.
...everyone plays the same class.
...GM provides pre-gen characters that are solid, but are far from optimized.
...When the GM states that story is more important than detail.
...Anytime the GM states that the only you can do when a PC dies is to look through there pockets for loose change and other loot.
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- Being at a convention, GMing Echoes of the Overwatched Table two. Group of players I GMed Penumbral Accords for in the morning, bails on Table 1 to sit at my table again.
- Group takes being Pathfinders and being in character so seriously they go to the Lodge or City Library to do research. They found out at my table for the first time that it actually gives a mechanical benefit of +4 to a knowledge. They have been doing this for 4 levels.
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- Group takes being Pathfinders and being in character so seriously they go to the Lodge or City Library to do research. They found out at my table for the first time that it actually gives a mechanical benefit of +4 to a knowledge. They have been doing this for 4 levels.
Huh? What?
Reference to the rule that allows this? I wanna use it!
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...when you sit down at the table and the GM tells you he doesn't use maps and minis, going with theater of the mind games.
...everyone plays the same class.
...GM provides pre-gen characters that are solid, but are far from optimized.
If I sat down at a table I really wouldn't know that I'm in for a treat, but rather I'd be very concerned. Playing without a map can go horribly wrong in combats when people assume different things. A Tier 1-5 scenario with nothing but wizards can be deadly as hell (not to talk about a Tier 3-7 with nothing but fighters) and the pre-gen thing sounds like a GM who creates his own pre-gens. Which is illegal if they're not level 1.
Maybe you just left out some details, but I really wouldn't know I'm in for a treat. I'd be very, very worried.
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I think he was using the 'you are in for a treat' phrase in its sarcastic meaning instead of its literal meaning. Gendo, if this is true, you may be interested in checking this particular forum for a "you know you're in trouble" thread that's been popular for the last few weeks. That's what spawned this one.
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..when you sit down at the table and the GM tells you he doesn't use maps and minis, going with theater of the mind games.
Oh hell no. If your class relies at all on positioning (rogues, reach fighters) this is going in the OTHER thread.
I couldn't stand "theater of the mind" even in OD&D. At least, not for combat. We started marking locations on graph paper and when Heritage Miniatures came out with their "Tolkien" line, we started using those. Too many claims of "I wasn't standing in the room when the fireball went off."
Of course, I was coming from a war gaming background at the time. But, then again, so were Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.
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calculating the volume of the fireball... "So, after you have been shrunk yourself down to fit into the 1' tall tunnels to fight the gremlins, you throw a fireball in a room that was ten times as tall as you? It's a 10' cube room ... wow - I think you just flushed all the tunnels leading into here too and out into the main dungeon... what's the formula for calculating the volume of a sphere again?"
Yeah, I remember those days...
Lol, I was reminiscing about this with some young whippersnappers players this weekend when I ran them through Eyes of the Ten over two days.
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We didn't bother recalculating. Instead, all spell areas were resolved by simply asking the caster to indicate the point of explosion and we'd break out the compass. Fireball used a 4 inch setting.calculating the volumne of the fireball... "So, after you have been shrunk yourself down to fit into the 1' tall tunnels to fight the grimlins, you throw a fireball in a room that was ten times as tall as you? It's a 10' cube room ... wow - I think you just flushed all the tunnels leading into here too and out into the main dungeon... what's the formula for calculating the volumne of a sphere again?"
Yeah, I remember those days...
That's no fun. How is the party Wizard, er, excuse me, make that party Magic-User, supposed to kill himself and half the party when he underestimates the size of the room he is throwing a fireball into and the backdraft from a 33,000 cubic foot fireball rushes down the corridor?
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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"
I'll never understand the attachment to this style of gaming. Well, I guess it could just be nostalgia, which can indeed be a powerful force.
Though it gets really weird every now and then when I hear someone complain that the grid somehow reduces roleplaying, and then wants to see a professional spellcaster with superhuman/magically-enhanced intelligence flinging explosions around haphazardly. :/
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That's no fun. How is the party Wizard, er, excuse me, make that party Magic-User, supposed to kill himself and half the party when he underestimates the size of the room he is throwing a fireball into and the backdraft from a 33,000 cubic foot fireball rushes down the corridor?
When the players actually understand math things like that which were intended to limit spells really made them significantly more powerful. Toss in some resist fire spells and suddenly a single fireball cleans out entire dungeons.
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You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"I'll never understand the attachment to this style of gaming. Well, I guess it could just be nostalgia, which can indeed be a powerful force.
It's mostly nostalgia. That and maybe old grognard bragging rights.
"Why when I was a kid we had to play D&D with chits for dice, rocks for minis and we had to do math to calculate things. And we liked it!"
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You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"I'll never understand the attachment to this style of gaming. Well, I guess it could just be nostalgia, which can indeed be a powerful force.
Though it gets really weird every now and then when I hear someone complain that the grid somehow reduces roleplaying, and then wants to see a professional spellcaster with superhuman/magically-enhanced intelligence flinging explosions around haphazardly. :/
I see it the exact opposite way. I stifle a complaint every time I see a caster whip out a template to figure out exactly which intersection to center their fireball so that it captures as many enemies as possible, while missing their allies by mere inches.
Heck, Marvel had to retroactively include Cyclops' spatial awareness as a mutant power of his, just to add some sort of versilimitude to the improbable accuracy of his beams.
There would be a lot of uncertainty when dropping a 33,000 cubic foot fireball onto a battlefield from 900' away. Without the grid, that level of uncertainty was reflected, and usually safely accounted for.
In my old 3E home game I made casters make a Spellcraft check to avoid catching someone in the very edge of a spell if its AoE ended right at the edge of their square.
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I see it the exact opposite way. I stifle a complaint every time I see a caster whip out a template to figure out exactly which intersection to center their fireball so that it captures as many enemies as possible, while missing their allies by mere inches.
If I wanted to stop that I'd just say 'pick your target and I will put the template down. No backsies'. I understand this doesn't help when you're at someone elses table though.
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Sorry for the derail.
To try to get back on track:
• Brand new players: I love running games for brand new players.
• Kids at my table: Even better than new adult players! Kids have an infectious sense of wonder and joy when playing.
• Role-players: When they are in character from the beginning, I know I'm in for a fun game.
• Every other Thursday: I run a Rise of the Runelords game for co-workers that is 1/3 unwinding, 1/3 drinking, and 1/3 gaming. It's a true joy to attend.
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You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"I have. I've also heard it when I break out the 40ft radius template for entangle and the druid players eyes go wide.
Had a moment like this today when I saw pyrotechnics used for the first time. "That has a radius of what?"
Also happens every time I consider adding spike stones or fire storm to my druid's spell list.
Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"I have. I've also heard it when I break out the 40ft radius template for entangle and the druid players eyes go wide.
This. Right here.
And sometimes it's not even the area of the spell, but the shape. I can't tell you how many times at one of my tables a caster has uttered "uh oh" when realizing this his or her cone spells (color spray, burning hands) ended up getting at least one other party member.
Caster: "Oh, no, I can totally get the bad guys and miss my entire party."
Me (putting down spell template, which clearly includes at least one other party member, no matter the spell's point of origin): "How?"
Caster: "Uh oh."
Me: Reflex saving throws, please.
It happens far too often for my tastes.
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When the GM has a bag of kettle corn and you see the four people with the most dirty minds at the table.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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I don't believe that PvP, in and of itself, is what is prohibited in PFS. Killing characters most certainly is.
Color Spray doesn't kill characters, so I let it go. Same with Entagle. So, those types of spells, I let them fire off as normal.
For spells that deal damage, I don't let it happen unless they get the other player's permission. (And sometimes, they do.)
Mark
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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You never hear this at the table anymore, "Yikes! I didn't realize how big fireball really is. Sorry!"I have. I've also heard it when I break out the 40ft radius template for entangle and the druid players eyes go wide.
First time I fired off stone call was this. We started calling it "Rey's low yield tactical nuke."
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There is a complete lack of understanding by most GMs regarding the "PvP" rules. I've had a GM flat out tell the Alchemist they can't throw bombs into combat, even with Precise Bombs, because they "might miss" and splash on other players.
The rules are (deliberately, I presume ) fairly open to GM interpretation.
Up here, we generally interpret them as "the target has veto power over things that can harm it done by fellow PCs". We tell that to new players. I have NEVER seen a case where there has been an issue. One player will ask the other player if they're OK being fireballed OR a player will volunteer that they're fine being fireballed because they have evasion.
Just having them rule means it never comes up :-)
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There is a complete lack of understanding by most GMs regarding the "PvP" rules. I've had a GM flat out tell the Alchemist they can't throw bombs into combat, even with Precise Bombs, because they "might miss" and splash on other players.The rules are (deliberately, I presume ) fairly open to GM interpretation.
Up here, we generally interpret them as "the target has veto power over things that can harm it done by fellow PCs". We tell that to new players. I have NEVER seen a case where there has been an issue. One player will ask the other player if they're OK being fireballed OR a player will volunteer that they're fine being fireballed because they have evasion.
Just having them rule means it never comes up :-)
That's the way I've generally seen it go, too. Often, the player whose character might suffer damage is the one trying to convince the one dealing the damage that it's ok. "Go ahead and throw the fireball, I've got Fire Resistance/Evasion/etc."
My ninja was recently the subject of a Dominate Person (yeah, ninja saving throws). The first thing I did was turn the the player of the Sorcerer (who I nearly killed in the first round of the Dominate) and told him to do what he had to to stay alive. Several Black Tentacles later, both of us lived, though it was close for us both, too. If it came down to one or the other, I'd rather have seen my character killed while dominated than to have her kill a party member.
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I know a sorcerer who routinely asks other party members (those with low Will saves for sure) if they would like him to cast Dominate Person on them right after the mission briefing. That way anyone Dominating them later "will have to fight me for control of you, and I have a grate opposed CHA check".
That works great until someone who did some scrying knows about that and dominates the sorcerer (cause sorcerers are known for their strong will saves). then I have the entire party dominated with one spell.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Indianapolis
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but the posts above were stating that the Judge should not give the target that veto power. Just impose the spell effect on the PC when another PC goes "opps!"...
I am not sure which post(s) you are referring to, nosig, but in my case, I give them that veto power (in PFS play, not in regular play) when the spell actually causes damage or potentially will kill the target.
Things which impose conditions (blind, entangled), I don't consider to be in that same category, so I let the spell take effect and run its course.
As for items like dominate, spells which in and of themselves do not damage or cause death to a PC, fall into my second category.
I have yet to have a player at any of my PFS tables complain about it.
I will add (and I omitted this earlier) that if the player who is playing the spellcaster is new or relatively new to PFS (and I know they are either by them telling me or watching them play), I do give them the, "you know, this can effect your party members, too."
I realize my perspective is just that, mine, but I think the way I adjudicate these cases is balanced.