Getting a player to leave


Advice

Silver Crusade

I find myself in a situation where I feel there is a need to 'prune' off a certain member of the group to the benefit of the others. Currently I have a rogue that decides it's in his character to steal from other party members as well as to aid only himself in combat. His argument being that he doesn't trust the other members in character. I've spoken to him about it but he has this insistence that it be so, often dismissive of it, seeming to enjoy it.

I'm debating wither to tell him he's no longer welcome to outright killing his character.

How has everyone else here delt with players you found toxic? Or if not toxic, what caused you to dismiss them?

Liberty's Edge

18 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Don't deal with out of character issues in character. He is obviously not caring if he is disrupting the game, so you will have to ask him to leave if he won't change his behavior.
Give him the ultimatum: be a team player or find another game.


While I, in general, agree with Mischief's suggestion, I am curious how the other PCs have been reacting to his jerkitude. It's completely possible for them to, IC, tell the little worm that they want him gone, especially if they've caught him stealing.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I second mischief. This is a player problem, not a character one, and should be dealt with out of game. My own policy: you make the game not fun, I tell you and say I expect you to be a team player. If you refuse, just leave...

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mischief Mondragon wrote:

Don't deal with out of character issues in character. He is obviously not caring if he is disrupting the game, so you will have to ask him to leave if he won't change his behavior.

Give him the ultimatum: be a team player or find another game.

This. It's never anything but a poison pill waiting to be brewed by trying to be underhanded in an out of character handling of a player. If a player is not going to be a good fit, just remove him. Preferably while still acting like the adult you're presumed to be.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Zhayne wrote:
While I, in general, agree with Mischief's suggestion, I am curious how the other PCs have been reacting to his jerkitude. It's completely possible for them to, IC, tell the little worm that they want him gone, especially if they've caught him stealing.

If the other players didn't care I don't think the OP would be here discussing removing the player. If a player wants to play a character who steals from the party and doesn't help in combat and the rest of the players think that is okay, fine. It would get old fast however, and it is also likely that even if they were okay with it to begin it would just take one instance of stealing one of the other character's "precious" to cause problems.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

All good suggestions. This is not a good player and likely not a good person you want to spend hours with.

Say, 'thank you but you just don't fit. Goodbye.'


Mischief Mondragon wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
While I, in general, agree with Mischief's suggestion, I am curious how the other PCs have been reacting to his jerkitude. It's completely possible for them to, IC, tell the little worm that they want him gone, especially if they've caught him stealing.
If the other players didn't care I don't think the OP would be here discussing removing the player. If a player wants to play a character who steals from the party and doesn't help in combat and the rest of the players think that is okay, fine. It would get old fast however, and it is also likely that even if they were okay with it to begin it would just take one instance of stealing one of the other character's "precious" to cause problems.

Kind of why I'm curious. I would have expected the other PCs to have ejected him IC or laid him out IC by now.


Pretty much what they said.

If it's your house, ask them to leave. If it's not your house, ask them to leave and have the person whose house it is back you up on it.

His options are pretty much limited to "Leave, or start a fight and probably get arrested" at that point, and most people will choose the former option.


Mischief Mondragon wrote:

Don't deal with out of character issues in character. He is obviously not caring if he is disrupting the game, so you will have to ask him to leave if he won't change his behavior.

Give him the ultimatum: be a team player or find another game.

Again, this ^

I've had this talk with a player before (actually, a couple), and I found it helpful to view the situation as a two-way conflict between the player and the rest of the group: not only is the player stepping on other people's fun, the player would probably have more fun at a table where that sort of PvP stuff is welcome or even encouraged. Some games run that way, but mine don't.

It's important to remember that there are a lot of ways to play the game, and nobody is really "doing it wrong". But not all players are going to play well together, and sometimes it's just best to part company. If I was the odd-man out in a group that loved to backstab and steal from one another, I'd probably be happier in the long run if I left in search of a more compatible group, too.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Zhayne wrote:
Mischief Mondragon wrote:
Zhayne wrote:
While I, in general, agree with Mischief's suggestion, I am curious how the other PCs have been reacting to his jerkitude. It's completely possible for them to, IC, tell the little worm that they want him gone, especially if they've caught him stealing.
If the other players didn't care I don't think the OP would be here discussing removing the player. If a player wants to play a character who steals from the party and doesn't help in combat and the rest of the players think that is okay, fine. It would get old fast however, and it is also likely that even if they were okay with it to begin it would just take one instance of stealing one of the other character's "precious" to cause problems.
Kind of why I'm curious. I would have expected the other PCs to have ejected him IC or laid him out IC by now.

Sometimes its a case of an easygoing group that has a high tolerance for BS. At some point the GM or one of the other players complains, and everyone finds out they feel the same way. The very next sentence from GM and players is usually "I would have said something earlier, but I thought you liked him being here". This is exactly what happened in our group at one point.


I'm going to agree with stuff that has already been said but then play devils advocate.

I have found many people want to play this type of Rogue due to movies and books that depicted the rogue as a anti-hero. The kind that you could not trust with a copper piece but with the heart of gold(deep down underneath). Heck often they are somewhat cowardly to boot!

We all have seen the type is countless stories and it's only natural that people want to play them in rpg's.

The trouble is they don't translate well into a rpg. Instead what you end up with is a character everyone hates and nobody trusts.

Perhaps it isn't the player being a arsehat but instead someone trying to role play the typical book type thief!

The answer is to take him aside and make sure he understands that his CHARACTERS actions and having real consequences for the player. Let him know that it simply isn't working out and instead of coming across as a anti-hero and good hearted rogue he is coming across as a jerk.


Chapter 1, Page 1, Passage 1, Rule #1: We play to have fun.

With that rule in mind, evaluate what effect this player's actions will have on the groups fun. If you conclude he will be counter to fun or will lead to complications and/or arguments, then your path is clear.

Talk to him out of game and make it clear that his character's motivations do not trump the other players' right to an enjoyable game atmosphere. Selfish PCs suck the fun out of games very quickly in my experience.


Yes, you can't solve a OOC problem IC.

But you can talk to him OOC, ask him to stop. Bring in a new PC. Try again.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Hmm. There is a definite disconnect in responses here regarding "character" and "player". I see a lot of talk about Team players here. But adventuring Parties are not all necessarily Teams in character or in character.

It is obvious that in the gameworld this character is a danger to the party. Let the other characters move him on, or reply in kind with whatever punishment they deem fit.

If the player can't see that this is a fairly antisocial character that the other players are tired of/annoyed with, then there is a player problem. If the player won't change the characters ways, or won't make a new character, then the rogue will be subject to repercussions.

If the player is just a jerk, tell them firmly they are not welcome.

Sovereign Court

Ayanzo wrote:

I find myself in a situation where I feel there is a need to 'prune' off a certain member of the group to the benefit of the others. Currently I have a rogue that decides it's in his character to steal from other party members as well as to aid only himself in combat. His argument being that he doesn't trust the other members in character. I've spoken to him about it but he has this insistence that it be so, often dismissive of it, seeming to enjoy it.

I'm debating wither to tell him he's no longer welcome to outright killing his character.

How has everyone else here delt with players you found toxic? Or if not toxic, what caused you to dismiss them?

Going on the idea that the group feels the same, but you as a group have not said something.

Say something directly. In no uncertain terms is stealing from the party a beneficial act.

Either teh rogue will get in line with the party, or he will be removed and the player will need to bring in a PC that will be more in tune with the group.


If the Player is just a d***, get rid of him. If he's just playing one then this is probably a failure on his part for assuming he could play this character, but mostly a failure on your part for not letting him know the expectations before he made him. If you let people know acceptable alignments and behavior and that this is "quest Co-op style" and not free for all style it should avoid this problem. If you were clear on the expectations and he went forward with this character anyway it means you need to tell him new char or gtfo.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The PFS guide specifically talks about this, and even though you're talking about a home game, you're following the same (or very similar) rule.

You can present that to him and tell him that's going to be a rule of your campaign. You're the GM, it's your call, he can go with it or he's free to leave, and if he refuses to follow the rule(s), tell him he's not welcome to play. If he's reasonable, he'll either listen (even if he doesn't like it) or at least leave gracefully.

PFS Guide, p19: Do Not Bully Other Players wrote:
We’re all friends here, and we’re all playing a game together with the single purpose of having a wonderful time. Do not push other players around just because your character can. Extreme forms of dysfunctional play will not be tolerated. A little fun banter between PCs can be great roleplaying, but when you find yourself doing everything in your power to make another character look like an idiot or to undo everything that character is trying to accomplish, you’ve probably lost sight of the purpose of Pathfinder Society Organized Play and may be asked to leave the table. Playing your character is not an excuse for childish behavior. GMs should work with their event coordinators to resolve any out of game conflicts. If you are both the GM and the coordinator, use your own discretion. Extreme or repetitive cases should be resolved by asking the offender to leave the table.
PFS Guide, p19: No Player vs Player Combat wrote:
The goal of Pathfinder Society Organized Play is to provide an enjoyable experience for as many players as possible. Player-versus-player conflict only sours a session. While killing another character might seem like fun to you, it certainly won’t be for the other character’s player. Even if you feel that killing another PC is in character for your PC at this particular moment, just figure out some other way for your character to express herself. In short, you can never voluntarily use your character to kill another character—ever. Note that this does not apply to situations where your character is mind-controlled by an NPC and is forced by that NPC to attack a fellow Pathfinder.

Digital Products Assistant

Removed an unhelpful post.

Silver Crusade

MattR1986 wrote:
If the Player is just a d***, get rid of him. If he's just playing one then this is probably a failure on his part for assuming he could play this character, but mostly a failure on your part for not letting him know the expectations before he made him.

Everyone knew we were doing a published A.P. so it was an unsaid rule that it's cooperative play. I'll reinforce this for next session this Saturday. As far as the other group members, they're tolerating it but I sense the discomfort so I'm looking to defuse the situation before it advances further.

His attitude as a player is a bit hauty, so it is annoying, and given I have others who can hop in; I'm strongly considering the Axe in a conversation with him.

Thanks Avatar for the P.F.S. link, I'll use that next time I see him.

Sovereign Court

Ayanzo wrote:
MattR1986 wrote:
If the Player is just a d***, get rid of him. If he's just playing one then this is probably a failure on his part for assuming he could play this character, but mostly a failure on your part for not letting him know the expectations before he made him.

Everyone knew we were doing a published A.P. so it was an unsaid rule that it's cooperative play. I'll reinforce this for next session this Saturday. As far as the other group members, they're tolerating it but I sense the discomfort so I'm looking to defuse the situation before it advances further.

His attitude as a player is a bit hauty, so it is annoying, and given I have others who can hop in; I'm strongly considering the Axe in a conversation with him.

Thanks Avatar for the P.F.S. link, I'll use that next time I see him.

Sounds like the choice is made. End it swift and polite.

Maybe have a polite discussion to start the game to ask if will just stop playing that type of character, see if he changes during the session. Then drop him at the end if it is obvious that he isn't going to change

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

You have a few houserules, right? Most groups do.

Here is how you handle it:

New Houserule: NO PVP. This includes violence and theft.

That's it.

He now knows it will be comply, or goodbye.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

You have a few houserules, right? Most groups do.

Here is how you handle it:

New Houserule: NO PVP. This includes violence and theft.

That's it.

He now knows it will be comply, or goodbye.

Or perhaps 'No PvP without the other player's permission'.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Zhayne wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

You have a few houserules, right? Most groups do.

Here is how you handle it:

New Houserule: NO PVP. This includes violence and theft.

That's it.

He now knows it will be comply, or goodbye.

Or perhaps 'No PvP without the other player's permission'.

That would likely not work with this player.

Be safe. Be firm. Be equal.


If we was stealing money from other players in monopoly would you let him continue to play?


My favourite PVP rule works roughly as follows:

1. Character X accosts/attacks/steals from Character Y.
2. Character Y calls time out and notifies the Gm to witness it.
3. Character Y gets to determine the outcome - no dice are involved.

It tends to prevent problems, since everyone involved knows these are the rules. No one in the party gets to dictate what happens to anyone else, unless that other person started the mess to begin with. Also works well for inter-character social skills.

Mind, in my experience this rule is not needed with mature players, but I like to have my bases covered well in advance.

Sovereign Court

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I once handled this type of player and to their credit they co-operated. I told the player "look these guys dont want to worry about you screwing them and taking their stuff. It may be meta and cramp your style but leave them alone and I will make sure as GM to give you plenty of sneaky-theif opportunities. I dont care if you steal from my NPCs, they might, but I wont. The other players however dont have fun with that so stop or there is the door." Worked out in the end. Some players just get kicks from being disruptive and you may not be so lucky.


Zhayne wrote:
Kind of why I'm curious. I would have expected the other PCs to have ejected him IC or laid him out IC by now.

I think players are reluctant to do that because it "feels mean" and feel they need to stick together. IME, the DM has to step in and throw the player out of the game. Players might leave a group over a problem player, but they won't rise up and throw them out themselves.

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

"Hey man, we've talked about this before, but I want to make it clear. You are not to steal from your fellow party members, and most importantly you are to act as a team member. The excuse that "this is how my character feels" doesn't wash, because your character only feels what you as a player dictate it feels.
If this is too restrictive, then I'm sorry this isn't the group for you, but if you're willing to join the team both in and out of game you'll have a place at my table."

You're the GM, you get to decide who you do and don't want to play with.


We just stop inviting people who can't play. Our situation was one where this player constantly picked out of game fights with the GM about what was happening. He'd quibble over the stupidest things. Part of it was because we were in Forgotten Realms and he had read ALL the books so he would constantly point out minor variances from the GM's interpretation of Faerun versus "how it really is." Sometimes he would just fight to fight. We would waste a god 45 minutes a game with him arguing out of character. So we just stopped telling him when we were gaming and continued to meet without out him.


Do the other characters know he's stealing? Do they see how he's not very helpful?

If not introduce an npc with super high perception and sense motive to out him. Then the problem will solve itself.....I think. ;)


Clealy I didn't read the whole thread.


Ayanzo wrote:
How has everyone else here dealt with players you found toxic? Or if not toxic, what caused you to dismiss them?

This can be complicated depending on the nature of your group.

A few questions:

- How have the other players reacted to his PC's actions? Do they find it cute and funny or are people genuinely annoyed?
- Would you want to get rid of him even if this behavior stops?
- Is he friends with one or more of the other players?

If the other players aren't bothered by this I'd let it ride.

If other players find this a problem I think you should talk to him and ask him to play a character that doesn't cause this kind of conflict - why would the rest of the party want him around?

If you'd want to be rid of him even if it weren't for the stealing and selfishness and he's not friends with the other players I would tell him it's not working out and ask him to find another game.


Killing the character is honestly a cowardly thing to do. If there's a problem with your social dynamic, act like an adult and talk it out.

"Mr. Player...I know we talked about this before, but it doesn't seem to have helped. Maybe I wasn't clear, but this needs to be resolved, so let me be so now. You're being a dick. Not your character, but you. The way you conduct yourself while we're gaming is making the game not fun for the other players. It needs to stop. If that means you making a new character, or changing your alignment, or getting an enema, fine, but it stops or you're not welcome at the table anymore. No warnings, no arguing, no more chances."


Just tell him to either straighten up or hit the road.
Why let one person sour the whole group because he has issues.


There are two ways to deal with this, I think. The first way, for me, is IC. Drop an old school ring of contrariness... his character will go from being a complete jackass to a valued team player. This will also help you determine whether or not the Player is being a Dbag, or if he is just Rping a Dbag.

If it turns out to be the former, and the player still finds ways to make his character be an ass, then hit the eject button attached to his seat at the gaming table.


Another Devil's Advocate, as one who occasionally enjoys playing IC dysfunctional characters

If the player is deeply into the characterisation that means they steal from the other PCs then maybe work something out so that it won't actually matter functionally. Have the thefts be little trinkets or mechanically unimportant items that the victim misses IC but isn't important in-game (like the +2 dagger or 500gp gem).

As long as the party are aware of the problem OOC, they can role-play the situation. Think of the kender in Dragonlance (I forget it's name) who kept stealing small items from the others. Use the situation to role-play. This could end up with the death, arrest or expulsion of the Rogue character from the party, but at least it is played out and the Rogue player has had an opportunity to get that style of character out of their system.

If the player of the Rogue is happy with this as a way to portray his character concept then all is well. If he insists that the thefts have to be important in-game items then he is going beyond 'playing the character' and is into 'being a nuisance'.

If the next character run by that player is also dysfunctional then you have a problem player who is ruining other people's fun and should be shown the door.


I know this isn't the right way to handle this, but I almost want the fighter to catch him doing it and finally get mad enough to decapitate the bugger. XD

Liberty's Edge

OP, I think you should REALLY talk with the other players first to see how they truly feel about this (rather than just thinking you know) and then talk with the Rogue's player.

Just booting him out of your game because you can, over issues that may not have any reality with the rest of the group, is not a fair move IMO.

BTW, if you have not told him BEFORE the game that cooperation was more important than roleplaying his concept, then it is rather unfair to ban him from the game without having the opportunity to create a more team-oriented character.

blackbloodtroll wrote:

You have a few houserules, right? Most groups do.

Here is how you handle it:

New Houserule: NO PVP. This includes violence and theft.

That's it.

He now knows it will be comply, or goodbye.

That is all good and well when it is treated like any houserule : stated openly before the game begins. If the game has already started, then the player should be allowed to recreate the PC so that it is in line with the new houserule.


Sadurian wrote:


As long as the party are aware of the problem OOC, they can role-play the situation. Think of the kender in Dragonlance (I forget it's name) who kept stealing small items from the others. Use the situation to role-play. This could end up with the death, arrest or expulsion of the Rogue character from the party, but at least it is played out and the Rogue player has had an opportunity to get that style of character out of their system.

First of all, all kender should be drawn & quartered- and that goes for the PC too. ;-)

Next, this sort of player doesn't "get it out of their system" via RP. Getting arrested, decapitated, whatever, just means more attention for him, and that's what he wants.

Sure, the player will mature and sometimes a good talking to will help him on his path to maturity. But catering to him will only make things worse.


This won't totally eliminate problem players, but in the future I'd advocate screening potential candidates before inviting them to join the group. It doesn't need to be game-related -- I generally go for lunch or a beer, and see if the prospective player is the type of person the group will get along with. If no, simply don't invite them.

Since instituting this policy, I've had 0 problem players at the table, out of 10+ players invited.


DrDeth...because you know this particular player personally?

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ayanzo wrote:
MattR1986 wrote:
If the Player is just a d***, get rid of him. If he's just playing one then this is probably a failure on his part for assuming he could play this character, but mostly a failure on your part for not letting him know the expectations before he made him.

Everyone knew we were doing a published A.P. so it was an unsaid rule that it's cooperative play. I'll reinforce this for next session this Saturday. As far as the other group members, they're tolerating it but I sense the discomfort so I'm looking to defuse the situation before it advances further.

His attitude as a player is a bit hauty, so it is annoying, and given I have others who can hop in; I'm strongly considering the Axe in a conversation with him.

Thanks Avatar for the P.F.S. link, I'll use that next time I see him.

Whoa, maybe I'm reading too much into this, but I would strongly advise against confronting him in front of the other players.

I can see one of two scenarios playing out. Either a) the player in question feels ganged up on and the situation turns unnecessarily hostile, or b) the other players waffle and don't support you because they don't want to go against their "friend". Then you end up looking like the bad guy and don't accomplish anything.

Much better to confirm privately with the other players that this guy's behaviour is a problem, then talk to him about it, out-of-character and outside the game. Give him a chance to straighten up or alternatively to roll up a new character. If he refuses to back down, then he should be asked to leave.

Shadow Lodge

I think Ayanzo meant other players who can take the place of his character.

Not other players who will add to the argument of making him leave.


easiest way to get him to quit the behavior?
tell him to stop. If he pulls the "I am playing my character" card... tell him "you are playing a dick; last chance; stop."
If he does not stop then you point at the door and say "you are being disruptive to the flow of the game; leave."


Tell all the other players to show up 30min early and make sure you are 1 chair short. :)

But honestly Pcs that steal from other Pcs are like having a friend that steals from you and your friends...how long do you think you would keep him around, same goes for your characters in game.

give him a talk, if the other players are in agreement, and give him 1 chance to mend his ways..if not, 1 less chair time.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Getting a player to leave All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.