Oh wow. That is some serious stuff. Call the police, cuz if that ain't a felony it should be AMIRITE?
None of that is personal.
I wish I could favorite that multiple times.
It's not personal no, but it is good proof that SKR is far from a good designer. His influence in the game has made it less fun for me and countless others.
Is it personal? No, but how many disasters are.
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Why do some folks act like Sean killed their pet?
I don't get it.He could not have done possibly anything personal enough to random people on the internet to warrant the d-baggery that is on display sometimes.
Ok here is what I know he did, but it's not a comprehensive list. Proof is on these boards, just hard to find. There are screenshots too.
-Killed the Monk class
-Treated a lot of play testers badly in the play test
-Made a lot of very bad feats and class abilities
-Played a huge part in why Crossbows are so bad
-Helped nerf martial characters a lotIf you like Monks then yes, SKR did in fact kick your puppy.
This is not quite accurate. Sean was the mouth of the message boards for a long time, so it was him out defending some decisions that were made by the Design Team.
Sean was (and will be) responsible for putting some great stuff in the game and was a valuable and is very missed member of the Design Team.
He will be a hard fellow to replace. I also think folks are going to be very happy with the final classes he lead for the Advance Class Guide. Sean and I had many discussions about those classes in playtest and final form, and a lot of what we talked about was spurred on my the great discussions and comments made on these boards.
I'll tell you a little secret. Back when I was in college, Sean and I used to go rounds frequently on the old TSR Online AOL boards. I will admit that online he can be...well...challenging at times. His dedication, passion, and quirky sense of humor sometimes doest translate well on forums. After working with him for years I can also tell you he is one of the nicest most talented guys in the industry. And he cares a lot about his work and the fans.
I miss that bald bastard. :)
Why do some folks act like Sean killed their pet?
I don't get it.He could not have done possibly anything personal enough to random people on the internet to warrant the d-baggery that is on display sometimes.
Ok here is what I know he did, but it's not a comprehensive list. Proof is on these boards, just hard to find. There are screenshots too.
-Killed the Monk class
-Treated a lot of play testers badly in the play test
-Made a lot of very bad feats and class abilities
-Played a huge part in why Crossbows are so bad
-Helped nerf martial characters a lotIf you like Monks then yes, SKR did in fact kick your puppy.
This is not quite accurate. Sean was the mouth of the message boards for a long time, so it was him out defending some decisions that were made by the Design Team.
Sean was (and will be) responsible for putting some great stuff in the game and was a valuable and is very missed member of the Design Team.
He will be a hard fellow to replace. I also think folks are going to be very happy with the final classes he lead for the Advance Class Guide. Sean and I had many discussions about those classes in playtest and final form, and a lot of what we talked about was spurred on my the great discussions and comments made on these boards.
I'll tell you a little secret. Back when I was in college, Sean and I used to go rounds frequently on the old TSR Online AOL boards. I will admit that online he can be...well...challenging at times. His dedication, passion, and quirky sense of humor sometimes doest translate well on forums. After working with him for years I can also tell you he is one of the nicest most talented guys in the industry. And he cares a lot about his work and the fans.
I miss that bald bastard. :)
I'll happily say it again. All the "fluff" SKR wrote was amazing. If you guys ever publish those spreads from the Adventure Paths about deities I'd buy it in hardcover happily.
His design choices and communication skills are another matter entirely. Especially how he handled draft two of the Hunter and Brawler in the ACG test. Hopefully these classes can be redeemed in the final draft we get in a few months.
Edit: On a side note. Stephen you were way super rad during the playtest. Especially those moments when you told us your thought process behind controversial design choices. It allowed use to make really pointed feedback instead of just tossing poo on a wall and hoping it stuck.
Chief Technical Officer
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Ideally, entry level positions that can support telecommuting. I understand that Paizo can't afford to fly people around for work, and I don't expect them to, but surely there are some jobs that can be done, at least short term (6 months to a year, perhaps) with the person working from home and staying in constant contact with the main team.
I understand that indirect communication is a bit hectic when it comes down to crunch time, which is why I don't suggest it for the core positions (like SKR's position, if we're being honest), but fringe positions like artwork, story outline, etc. shouldn't have as much of an issue.
We do freelance contracts with writers and artists—and sometimes even designers—that do not require them to be local, but if you're a regular employee, you must work locally. Our experience is that that's a great policy.
The design job you are talking about is not an entry-level job, and not something that can be handled on a freelance basis. It's a hugely important full-time job that requires massive amounts of talent *and* experience, and it requires near-continuous interaction with our on-site staff.
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This is not quite accurate. Sean was the mouth of the message boards for a long time, so it was him out defending some decisions that were made by the Design Team.
I really wish this was more widely appreciated. Being the most visible defender of a group decision doesn't mean you're responsible for the decision.
Since I joined the paizo community, it seems to me there has been a decline in engagement of the sort we're discussing*. It's hard not to think that the "shoot the messenger" approach often taken with Sean has been responsible for that.
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This is not quite accurate. Sean was the mouth of the message boards for a long time, so it was him out defending some decisions that were made by the Design Team.I really wish this was more widely appreciated. Being the most visible defender of a group decision doesn't mean you're responsible for the decision.
Since I joined the paizo community, it seems to me there has been a decline in engagement of the sort we're discussing*. It's hard not to think that the "shoot the messenger" approach often taken with Sean has been responsible for that.
** spoiler omitted **
At one point SKR (self?-)claimed the title of "most hated man on the internet" in his Paizo profile (he removed that from his profile sometime in the past.) If I remember correctly he was referring to his time with TSR. Perhaps someone with that reputation (presumably earned) isn't the best choice for the "mouthpiece to the boards" position?
Getting back on topic.
Feedback for this Playtest.
Upon further meditation I think the next Playtest should aim to have 3 drafts instead of two. I think if we had one more draft it would have proven more effective.
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At one point SKR (self?-)claimed the title of "most hated man on the internet" in his Paizo profile (he removed that from his profile sometime in the past.) If I remember correctly he was referring to his time with TSR.
Actually, it was when I started as TSR's online coordinator (not "webmaster," because the owner didn't think the internet was important and didn't allow me to build an official TSR website), I inherited the responsibility of enforcing TSR's draconic online policy (which, to sum up, was "if you write something and describe it with D&D stats, it belongs to TSR")...
Because of this online policy, the previous TSR online rep (named Rob Repp, oddly enough) sent cease-and-desist letters to schools and other ftp sites requiring any unauthorized D&D fan materials to be deleted.And even though the only times I told people to take stuff off their ftp or websites was for blatant copyright violations (like filesharing entire books)...
And even though before I took the job, I publicly argued with Rob Repp about how the online policy was ridiculous, bad for the fan community, and bad for the company...
And even though I (and TSR editor Jim Butler) finally successfully argued with legal and management to get a much more reasonable online policy for TSR...
I was blamed for the stuff the previous TSR online rep did.
And, because during this time period, the newsgroups were also flooded by the "green card lawyer" spammers, and because Senator Exon was pushing the Communications Decency Act to censor the internet, I joked that I was the "third-most hated man on the internet" (behind Exon and the green card lawyers). Because, on the internet, "the guy who shut down the D&D ftp sites" (even though that wasn't me) is almost as bad as a pair of megaspammers and a clueless politician who wants to censor the internet... ha... ha-ha... ha ha... ha.
Perhaps someone with that reputation (presumably earned) isn't the best choice for the "mouthpiece to the boards" position?
And perhaps someone should actually read up on the context of something instead of speculating and assuming things that support their negative preconception of someone. I mean, this info is in my Wikipedia page. And a Google search of "Sean Reynolds most hated man" turns up an informative result from 1997.
Stay classy!
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It might be nice if the webmaster communicated back when you *do* bring up such issues.
And perhaps someone should actually read up on the context of something instead of speculating and assuming things that support their negative preconception of someone. I mean, this info is in my Wikipedia page. And a Google search of "Sean Reynolds most hated man" turns up an informative result from 1997.
Fair enough, I retract my comment.
Wow...just WOW.
I don't agree with Sean's opinion in every case...or even the majority of cases.
And he is definitely blunt....a trait I appreciate in interactions with people....even when I don't agree with them.
But this conversation has gone WAY overboard.
Grow up.
Which wouldn't be so bad if he would have at least acknowledged that there was a problem with said core mechanic and that he'd find SOMETHING to do with it instead of dressing up the minor bits around it in the hopes of hiding that it wasn't good.Similarly, many things were brought up to spruce up the Brawler, but all were ignored, bar one (Awesome Blow being moved back from "Capstone, and therefore unusable in most cases" to "16th level class ability most still won't be able to use and doesn't warrant that high of a level").
Amen brother. It was a vicious battle but eventually the spreadsheets won out.
I wait to see what the Brawler's method of punching through DR will be. This was the first playtest I participated heavily in so I'm uncertain of how much will change in the final product.
Fingers crossed for Blessings being less weird(Hard to find time to use while also being ANOTHER resource pool the Warpriest has). Also had some odd problems with Ranged Warpriests.
Most industries don't have such a small pool of available candidates to draw from. In, say, the movie industry, you can find people who've been around for 5 years or more quite easily, because there are a LOT of candidates to choose from.
Sure, you could find those sorts of people in the movie industry- but as Ross points out, most likely, you will still have the same group of people all working together and jobs going to those who already have some connection to one another. In my experience, anyway, limited as it may be.
How is it not quite as good at it? At 2nd level it gets the singular unique-ish thing a Rogue brings to the table (Trapfinding), along with Full BaB, d10 HD, some Sneak Attack, and pseudo-Favored Enemy.
It's pretty awesome.
It lacks in the class skills that the rogue has. Not that it's big deal but I'm filling the rogues roll but I'm not a rogue so don't expect me to appraise stuff, I'll find those traps though.
Then there is uncanny dodge and evasion. I need to be 10th level before I can take evasion.
But really it the roguish rogue talents that I think define the rogue not things like trap finding. It's things like black market ties, honey tongued, canny observer, coax information. That to me is what makes the rogue a a rogue. Of course I've yet to see an AP that really allow the use of these abilities.
Black market ties though has to be one of the best rogues talents ever. This allows you better access to magic items to purchase and allow you sell loot more easily. Want to be really useful to your party, take this. Going CHR with diplomacy and use magic device. This just works great.
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I'll happily say it again. All the "fluff" SKR wrote was amazing. If you guys ever publish those spreads from the Adventure Paths about deities I'd buy it in hardcover happily.
Due to the busy-ness of work and family life I had to stop my AP subscription a few years ago (frankly I had no time to read them all let alone keep up playing them) but I do recall getting a lot of satisfaction from the deity articles... now I'm several years behind and catching up with all the APs is certainly even less an option... I would totally buy a condensed / recollection of all the deity articles... great idea. Man those are awesome!
I'll happily say it again. All the "fluff" SKR wrote was amazing. If you guys ever publish those spreads from the Adventure Paths about deities I'd buy it in hardcover happily.Due to the busy-ness of work and family life I had to stop my AP subscription a few years ago (frankly I had no time to read them all let alone keep up playing them) but I do recall getting a lot of satisfaction from the deity articles... now I'm several years behind and catching up with all the APs is certainly even less an option... I would totally buy a condensed / recollection of all the deity articles... great idea. Man those are awesome!
You should both be happy about this brand-new book then :)
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I'll happily say it again. All the "fluff" SKR wrote was amazing. If you guys ever publish those spreads from the Adventure Paths about deities I'd buy it in hardcover happily.Due to the busy-ness of work and family life I had to stop my AP subscription a few years ago (frankly I had no time to read them all let alone keep up playing them) but I do recall getting a lot of satisfaction from the deity articles... now I'm several years behind and catching up with all the APs is certainly even less an option... I would totally buy a condensed / recollection of all the deity articles... great idea. Man those are awesome!
Inner Sea Gods is sorta this plus a bit of revision, among many other things. It's coming out imminently.
EDIT: Ninja'd
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sweeet... it will include all those articles in full? i mean some of these were like 5 pages... (I hope so)
The Paizo folks have said so, and it's a hardback, so yeah. Possibly even a bit longer. And with all the 3.5 stuff updated to Pathfinder. Plus a bunch of other cool stuff.
The full articles included will only be the ones on the core 20 deities, though. No full Besmara article like Skull and Shackles had or anything like that.
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Yep, and in fact, each deity article is now longer than 5 pages!
We do freelance contracts with writers and artists—and sometimes even designers—that do not require them to be local, but if you're a regular employee, you must work locally. Our experience is that that's a great policy.
Gotcha. Good to know.
The design job you are talking about is not an entry-level job, and not something that can be handled on a freelance basis. It's a hugely important full-time job that requires massive amounts of talent *and* experience, and it requires near-continuous interaction with our on-site staff.
Wasn't implying it was. That was two threads of conversation there that kinda merged together.
sweeet... it will include all those articles in full? i mean some of these were like 5 pages... (I hope so)The Paizo folks have said so, and it's a hardback, so yeah. Possibly even a bit longer. And with all the 3.5 stuff updated to Pathfinder. Plus a bunch of other cool stuff.
The full articles included will only be the ones on the core 20 deities, though. No full Besmara article like Skull and Shackles had or anything like that.
I gotta say, I'm highly interested in this. The Gods of Golarion are my favorite part of the setting.
I gotta say, I'm highly interested in this. The Gods of Golarion are my favorite part of the setting.Lord, yes. I like the rest of the setting a fair bit, but the Gods are amazingly awesome and completely stole my heart quite a while back. I'm getting that book.
Just to be sure, what thread did the devs say that it would have all those fluff articles from the APs? That's the main selling point for me.
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Just to be sure, what thread did the devs say that it would have all those fluff articles from the APs? That's the main selling point for me.
Well, Jessica Price just mentioned it in this one a few posts up. It's also stated several times in the product thread found under the link Are posted. Which is pretty well confirmed since people with a subscription have just gotten it in PDF and are talking about it.
Oh didn't notice she was a project manager! Pre order completed.
Also it's 10 bucks cheaper on Amazon.
I actually like the second playtest version of the Brawler and Swashbuckler and hope they have little or no change.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I think there are some folks who need to learn how to separate content from behavior. Just because someone tells you you're wrong doesn't mean they're being a jackass. And just because you think you're right doesn't mean you're not being a jackass.
Also it's 10 bucks cheaper on Amazon.
Many things are.
Yes but I highly disagree that the Brawler needs a different way to get through DR then the monk. I was very happy with it even if some very loud people thought it should be done differently.
I like the Swashbuckler's ability to add his level as precision damage to his one handed/light piercing weapon as long as he has at least one panache point left. Plus the fact that this damage was active all the time save vs crit/precision immune creatures. Personally a rouge with this ability instead of sneak attack would be fun.
It might be nice if the webmaster communicated back when you *do* bring up such issues.
I'm sorry if you've had a negative experience emailing us before. All I can say is that that email is being looked at by humans (very busy ones, I know), and we do look at the feedback we receive.
Backwards compatibility was a big deal when it first came out but at this point there is an actual problem with games that don't allow non paizo products at their tables.You are missing the point here that Paizo themselves are the publisher who wants their material to stay more or less compatible. Paizo make money selling adventures, that is their meat and drink and that is where WotC got it horribly wrong with splatbooks and new editions. Paizo will want to sell their 3.5 and Pathfinder 1.0 adventure paths and modules and PFS material concurrent with any new versions of Pathfinder without having to revise it.
Hence they are not wanting to re-write classes extensively, and why my own monk changes do not go beyond relatively minor alterations.
So what you are saying is that you just 'dabbled' in some changes for the monk?
Yes but I highly disagree that the Brawler needs a different way to get through DR then the monk. I was very happy with it even if some very loud people thought it should be done differently.
You might want to go back and re-look at the Brawler threads. I once started doing a count of the people threads that brought up and had issues with the Brawler's Strike ability, and I stopped when counting when I realized there were far more people who had issues with it, than didn't.
Out of the ~50 people posting in the first Brawler thread, I had 30 people counted that brought up problems with it before I stopped (not because I wanted to, but because we had a 7 hour power outage and I was unwilling to do it again). It's hard to do a completely original count as most people who posted in the first thread, posted in the second.
Now this doesn't account for the non-posting feedback, but out of those posting, the majority had problems with Brawler's Strike.
Granted, yes, there were some very loud people opposing the Brawler's Strike, goodness knows I was probably the loudest one, but in this case, the majority of people posting also had issues. So it wasn't just a case of the loud people making a mountain out of a mole-hill, the majority of people had issues as well.
Some people simply had issue with it being a Supernatural ability on a non-supernatural class, and they were satisfied with SKR saying they're changing it to an Extraordinary ability. Many others still had issue with the ability as a whole, especially since many people had issues that so many of the Brawler's abilities were taken straight from the Monk (Flurry, AC, DR bypass etc). Instead of coming up with a new or interesting method of bypassing DR, they just gave him a virtually identical (though better) method as the Monk.
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This is kinda why I'm glad the playtest works like it does.
They take our feedback, but will totally disregard it if it's poor (for whatever reason) feedback.
I don't want crappy product because 30 ppl on a web page agree to a horrible idea.
Nobody agreed on one individual idea, but they agreed the DR bypass had problems and they would prefer a better alternative.
Some people thought it would be interesting for a scaling DR bypass (like bypass 5 points of DR at 5th level, 10 at 10th, 15 at 15th etc), I myself preferred a more 'Clustered Shots' mechanic (and proposed it). There were quite a few ideas tossed around, but no one idea was universal.
The point was, people didn't like the Brawler's Strike ability, they wanted something different instead of just another Monk rip-off.
Tels, I used that as an example, but I did not intend to imply that that particular idea was horrible, just that the process allows the designers to totally disregard feedback in case that feedback is wretched.
Incidentally any playtest that showed the hunter in a positive light was pre-6, when most classes are at max similarity.
That's not petty, and Jason and others said the same thing about all of the classes at one point or another.