It just occurred to me, the fun you could have with a Conductive weapon.
Consider, a Conductive Longbow, and using Spell Tinker to suppress magic effects from long range?
Or Spending 4 points from her reservoir to shoot the bow with a Dancing Electricity effect. It's like an EMP Bomb!
Or use a reach weapon to Consume Magical Items and stay safe doing so! Use a Longspear, and hit that wizard's staff... NOMNOMNOM
*burp* Mmmmm, tasty
Also, I could see an Arcanist being very good friends with an Alchemist, especially if they stagger their prep times. Say an Arcanist rests first, and wakes up and prepares his spells *Reservoir emptied, gains 1+half level in new Reservoir points* then, while the Alchemist is still resting, the Arcanists 'eats' all of the Alchemist's old extracts (from the day before) since extracts are treated like potions. Alchemist wakes up and prepares new extracts.
Waste-Free Magic for a Green Future!
just saying, you misspelled supremacy in the capstone on the level chart (this has probably been pointed out already)
Points from the arcanist reservoir are used to fuel many of the arcanist’s powers (see arcane exploits). In addition, the arcanist can expend one point from her arcane reservoir as a free action whenever she casts an arcanist spell. If she does, she can choose to increase the caster level by 1 or increase the DC of the spell by 1. She can expend no more than one point from her reservoir on a given spell in this way.This seems like a hilarious caster to blast with.
Human with Spell Specialization (Magic Missile)
Spend arcane pool points into potent magic to drop 5th level magic missiles at level one.
It works.
1 (Base) + 3 (Spell Specialization) + 1 (arcane reservoir point) = CL 5
Neat trick at level 1 (where 3 missiles will kill just about anything), but quickly loses its luster. Take Potent Magic exploit to get CL 7 missiles at level 2.
Or you could have a smart DM that doesn't cluster all the enemies together in one spot. Or one that has enemies approach in waves. Or one that has enemies play to their strengths, like setting an ambush to take out the wimpy-looking guy in robes... because in a world with mages, the guy who isn't a warrior but travels with them is either a mage or a noble, and so is a high-value target either way.
These work at low-level but quickly become obsolete for a sufficiently skilled caster player, especially one that's smart and optimizes initiative. Once you hit level 11 and the wizard gets Contingency the battle is over and the DM has lost, unless they decide to play dirty. "Whoops, your contingency doesn't work. I wonder why?"
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*Cheesy 1950s commerical music plays*
Hey you!
Is your 1st level party more than 50% composed of casters?
Want to balance the encounter for them?
If so, throw three Kobold Arcanist Level 1s at them!
Most of their 1st level spells suck anyway and not suited to fighting (Keep Watch and Bed of Iron) but their only arcane exploit is Counterspell!
What are you waiting for?
Go ruin the healing cleric's / blasting wizard's day today!
*Wink*
also, i notice a lot of melee touch attacks (particularly the spell drain stuff) on a d6 HD no-armor character.
how exactly are we supposed to use these without getting gibbed immediately?
If you don't want to deal with that, then be prepared to fight lots and lots of golems wearing permanent antimagic fields...Or you could have a smart DM that doesn't cluster all the enemies together in one spot. Or one that has enemies approach in waves. Or one that has enemies play to their strengths, like setting an ambush to take out the wimpy-looking guy in robes... because in a world with mages, the guy who isn't a warrior but travels with them is either a mage or a noble, and so is a high-value target either way.
I'm not too impressed with pregenerated adventures, and if that's all you play, then yeah, your style might well work. But being able to beat the slowest car in the race doesn't make you a champion. Paizo adventures are built to be easy, because they have to cater to the least-skilled and tactical players. Being able to one-spell a pregen adventure's encounter isn't some special feat of amazing skill or power.
I agree. I use the APs and Modules too, but those are just baselines. Every combat gets beefed up a little, if not a lot. My table usually has approx. 7 players at any one time, so an encounter designed for 4 players just doesn't cut it. Everything gets buffed up at my table, and that also means much longer combats, and on top of that, we play more dynamic combats (like chasing a Vampire Rogue through out his mansion at night) which means you won't get away with casting just 1 spell in combat unless it just so happens to be the absolutely perfect spell at the perfect moment.
also, i notice a lot of melee touch attacks (particularly the spell drain stuff) on a d6 HD no-armor character.
how exactly are we supposed to use these without getting gibbed immediately?
Use them on yourself when you get hit with an enemy effect. Ideally avoid getting hit with the effect in the first place, but they're very good as a backup plan.
Also, I could see an Arcanist being very good friends with an Alchemist, especially if they stagger their prep times. Say an Arcanist rests first, and wakes up and prepares his spells *Reservoir emptied, gains 1+half level in new Reservoir points* then, while the Alchemist is still resting, the Arcanists 'eats' all of the Alchemist's old extracts (from the day before) since extracts are treated like potions. Alchemist wakes up and prepares new extracts.Extracts work in a similar way to potions, but they aren't actually potions. You can't eat your Alchemist's extracts with Consume Magic Item. Specifically:
In many ways, they behave like spells in potion form...They aren't potions, and they don't count as potions, they just behave like potions in some specific ways.
Considering you can dispel extracts I would have to say you probably can consume extracts. At least for now. I expect that option to be closed at some point.
so you can no longer eat magical weapons and armor or standing magical effects? that's a bit disappointing.
so you can no longer eat magical weapons and armor or standing magical effects? that's a bit disappointing.
You can't eat actual magic items. Just consumables and you CAN suppress magic effects. Or eat your spell slots.
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Most of the arcane exploits seem like a worse use of time than casting a spell during combat, so I don't actually think this is a very strong mechanic.
However, the "counterspell" arcane exploit is so insane against casters that I just don't see how it's fair.
Could a wizard beat an arcanist of equal level who has the counterspell arcane exploit? I honestly don't see how.
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All I am hearing is that you think Arcanist would be better for your particular idiosyncratic play style (and I don't see how that is true given that every spell you ready supposedly ends every fight you are in). Frankly, I usually build Batman wizards and this would be much worse for that play style.Coup de grace helpless enemies (at low levels), or bask in the glory of my one-round combat (at levels 7 and higher). I also do a side business in researching the next encounter with divination while melee mops up.Seems like your party could benefit from you playing sorcerer so you can cast an instant kill and a summon monster twice a fight.That's, ah, not what I meant. What I meant was that at level 7+ if I bother casting a spell the encounter is over. It might not be formally over - creatures are probably still technically alive - but it's over except for the crying.
I've never really been attracted to Sorcerers. Oddly enough I do a lot of trial-and-error for my campaign spell selection, which makes Wizard's ability to know any number of spells very attractive to me. And since I barely need to cast any spells except when throwing down with fellow spellcasters the slightly lessened spells-per-day don't affect me. If I played a Sorcerer, assuming I managed to pick spells I was happy with, the only difference would be going to sleep with even more spells left over.
Well of course. Batman wants buff and control, both of which sorta require re-application in the absence of a prepared battlefield (not always doable) or Persistent Spell. I tend to prefer solutions I can carry around with me into the next encounter when I'm done. Nothing like popping a divination while your summoned monsters are mopping up an encounter and then teleporting into an enemy while the summons are still up.
So if you end encounters with 1 spell, I tend to use 1 or 2 spells (unless we're not counting the Imp's wand, then 1 spell).
You're also saying that picking the correct spell for the enemy is what wins fights, presumably we're talking higher level spells here, unless it's just persistent slow, then well... winning.
Wizards do this better. they just do, unless there are a whole bunch of the same enemy a million times in a row, and the spell I prepare a couple copies of (summon monster) can't beat them all. Oh wait, that never happens.
HOWEVER if the argument is. "I only need powerful spells against other casters" well golly, arcanist does it better. I'll accept that argument.
Still, from a practical perspective they a straight up WORSE for almost half the game. any time they are behind on spell levels, they are just worse, sorry it's true.
If we're focused on combat spells, sorcerer's do it better, they get plenty of spells to consistently divine/port/summon repeat. they also have the slots to do that many, many times.
Arcanist is a good class, it's a good balance between sorcerer and wizard. it's got a niche, the reservoir is nifty, the CL/DC thing is strong.
I'd say it's more powerful than sorcerer, less powerful than wizard. Possibly more powerful than both at 20, though I still think it's close.
9th level spells are a big deal, wizards will have 7 prepared at 20 they probably don't need to double up on any of them. 7 options is more powerful than 3 options 6 times total.
Now on to talking about the class and not it's relative power to sorcerer's and wizards.
on to the class.
Lightning lance is currently FAR worse than the other options.
I'd like to see it "switched" with Flame Arc as the pure damage option, Also it keeps it's chain lightning effect.
Lightning Lance: The arcanist can create a lance of lightning by expending one point from her arcane reservoir. She can make a ranged touch attack against any one target within 30 feet. If the attack hits, it deals 1d6 points of electricty damage plus 1d6 points of electricity damage for every two arcanist levels beyond first (to a maximum of 10d6 at 19th level). The target may attempt a Reflex saving throw to halve the damage.
Flame Arc:
The arcanist can create an Arc of Flame by expending one point from her arcane reservoir. She can make a ranged touch attack against any one target within 30 feet. If the attack hits, it deals 1d4 points of fire damage plus 1d4 points of fire damage for every two arcanist levels beyond first (to a maximum of 10d4 at 19th level). The target also catches on fire, burning for 1d6 a round until extinguished. The target may attempt a Reflex saving throw to halve the damage and not catch fire. The target can attempt a Reflex saving throw as a full-round action to extinguish the flames. Applying at least 1 gallon of water to the target automatically extinguishes the flames
Spell tinker makes things last forever.
Reservoir points cost 2000gp (runestone of power) for an "every day" option, I think that is a fair price, but worth noting.
The counterspell option is awesome, I absolutely love it.
I would argue that the ability to suppress spells could be it's own ability, Spell tinkerer is already good enough. It should also only be able to alter a given spell effect 1 time. effectively permanent long duration spells is an issue.
That's all I have for right now. I am VERY happy with this revision, it's something that looks like enough fun to play that it can pull me away from playing wizards. I still maintain that it's less powerful than a wizard overall, but that puts it right up there with EVERYTHING.
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Siphon Spell (Su): When the arcanist uses the disrupt spell greater exploit, she can siphon some of the power to restore her arcane reservoir. If the caster level of the spell is equal to or higher than the arcanist and she exceeds the DC of the dispel check by 5 or more, she regains 1 point to her arcane reservoir. If she exceeds this check by 10 or more, she instead regains 2 points to her arcane reservoir. This has no effect on magic items. The arcanist must have the disrupt spell greater exploit before selecting this exploit.
The second allows you to regain reservoir points back from spell effects. Which in a way is "eating" a spell.
Counterspell is "throwing your food" to cancel the "food" from the enemy caster.
You can "consume" your spell slots to fuel your reservoir.
You can eat many magic consumable items or the charges from wands/staves.
This class is the Gluttony of spellcasters.
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Most of the arcane exploits seem like a worse use of time than casting a spell during combat, so I don't actually think this is a very strong mechanic.Only the rays seem lackluster, and I really don't think they fit the theme at all anyway. Maybe if they let you convert spell slots directly into damage effects with more potent damage, that might work. But as is, I don't see them as good options anyway.
As for the non-ray abilities, most of them are actually pretty cool, though a lot of them aren't meant to be big combat effects. But things like Counterspell, Spell Tinkering, the teleporty one, those are all really useful abilities, in combat or out. Remember, Spell Tinkering is effectively a really cheap "Dispel any good or bad spell for Charisma rounds", which is very useful if, say, you Fighter has been Charmed. Uncharm him for 3-4 rounds, let him smash the charmer's face, then you're good.
Don't forget that they have to identify the spell first (not hard, but it could occasionally fail), and then they still have to make an opposed caster level check. And remember, this uses Dispel Magic, not Greater Dispel Magic, so this becomes a much less viable option past level 10, when their dispel check is capped at +10, but your DC to dispel is not. There are also other ways to increase the DC to dispel your spells.However, the "counterspell" arcane exploit is so insane against casters that I just don't see how it's fair.
Could a wizard beat an arcanist of equal level who has the counterspell arcane exploit? I honestly don't see how.
dispel magic isn't capped at +10 anymore.
I would argue that the ability to suppress spells could be it's own ability, Spell tinkerer is already good enough. It should also only be able to alter a given spell effect 1 time. effectively permanent long duration spells is an issue.I agree. I could see Spell Tinker as is, just without the suppression, then make Suppress Magic an advanced exploit that requires Spell Tinker. I really like the idea of things like shutting down a Wall of Force or something like that just long enough to slip through, but that is a very powerful effect. Limiting it to an advanced exploit seems like it'd work.
Here here! Solid suggestions.
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Here here! Solid suggestions.I would argue that the ability to suppress spells could be it's own ability, Spell tinkerer is already good enough. It should also only be able to alter a given spell effect 1 time. effectively permanent long duration spells is an issue.I agree. I could see Spell Tinker as is, just without the suppression, then make Suppress Magic an advanced exploit that requires Spell Tinker. I really like the idea of things like shutting down a Wall of Force or something like that just long enough to slip through, but that is a very powerful effect. Limiting it to an advanced exploit seems like it'd work.
I concur!
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dispel magic isn't capped at +10 anymore.Oh, that's right, I had forgotten they changed that. Thanks for reminding me.
Counterspell is very strong, but you're still eating your immediate action, and a spell slot. The jury is out on this one for me (not if it's good, it's definitely good, I'm just not willing to say it's too good)
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That'd make learning offensive spells pretty brutal outside of the ones you get from leveling up. The first thought that popped into my head was paying a Wizard to cast stuff at you to learn spells.
"I want you to fireball me as hard as you can." -Arcanist Tyler Durden
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Looks interesting, needs more options (even if low powered) to prevent all Arcanist's from being the same.
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"Um... why does our Arcanist keep casting Fireball on himself?"That'd make learning offensive spells pretty brutal outside of the ones you get from leveling up. The first thought that popped into my head was paying a Wizard to cast stuff at you to learn spells."I want you to fireball me as hard as you can." -Arcanist Tyler Durden
"Alright. I paid you the money. Now turn me into a chair!"
*casts Polymorph Any Object*
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I really like the new flavor and class features far more than the old ones. This new Arcanist really feels like it is bringing something new and different to the table, and is much closer to what I expected when I heard the class mentioned for the first time. I can't wait to see the next playtest file.
I like it.
To get the most from this class you'll need INT, CHA and DEX for all those RTA's. That a good thing imo.
Counterspell is very strong, but you're still eating your immediate action, and a spell slot. The jury is out on this one for me (not if it's good, it's definitely good, I'm just not willing to say it's too good)
Compare it to Divine Defiance.
Was that feat overpowered? IMO, no, it was one of the few ways for a dedicated counterspeller build, an otherwise barely functional character concept, to work.
As I said in my earlier post, I don't really mind it, I just wish there were a way for non-arcanists to get it. I also wish that arcanists had to choose a group of exploits as a package deal instead of picking and choosing from a menu, so we don't see every single arcanist having the same set of the best exploits.
(I'd say do it like oracle revelations: You choose a menu, then you choose abilities from within that menu. Take the best exploits and break them up over multiple packages.)
Counterspell is very strong, but you're still eating your immediate action, and a spell slot. The jury is out on this one for me (not if it's good, it's definitely good, I'm just not willing to say it's too good)Compare it to Divine Defiance.
Was that feat overpowered? No, it was one of the few ways for a dedicated counterspeller build to work.
As I said in my earlier post, I don't really mind it, I just wish there were a way for non-arcanists to get it.
They've mentioned before that there would be options for the other classes to pick at some of the new ones.
I'm confused by this acid ability though.
Lingering Acid (Su): Whenever the arcanist uses the acid jet exploit, she can expend two points from her arcane reservoir instead of one. If she does, the target takes additional damage on the following rounds if it fails its saving throw. The target takes 1d4 points of acid damage on the following round for every 2d4 points of acid damage dealt by the initial attack. On subsequent round, the target continues to take 1d4 points of acid damage for every 2d4 points of acid damage deal on the previous round. The damage continues until the amount of acid damage dealt on the previous round by this effect is less than 1d4. The arcanist must have the acid jet exploit before selecting this exploit.I don't fully understand how the repeat damage thing works. If anyone understand s that could you explain it?
Acid jet deals 1d4+1d4 per 2 arcanist levels so...
An 11th level Arcanist deals 6d4 acid damage.
Using Lingering Acid, you then deal 1d4 points of damage for every 2d4 points of acid damage dealt on each subsequent round
Opening Shot: 6d4 Acid Damage
Round 2: 3d4
Round 3: 1d4 (Since you have to round down.)
Basically the ability divides down by 2s.
19th Level Arcanist
Opening Shot: 10d4
Round 2: 5d4
Round 3: 2d4
Round 4: 1d4
This looks very interesting.
While it's great that it has its own flavour now, I do hope it gets exploits for the non-metamagic wizard bonus feats, an arcane discovery and the eldritch heritage feats.
I strongly dislike the way he needs Charisma for exactly one optional thing. I like the idea of him using it, but using it in such a limited context is fiddly and awkward. If his pool of his spell DCs or something were based on it, I would be happier. As it is, I would try and avoid exploits that allow saves.
Has anybody else noticed that Prince of Knives' one spell per encounter wizard is summoning multiple monsters powerful enough to take on the enemies without his support, divining and teleporting, before starting the next encounter solo? That's three spells minimum against encounters so weak they can be confidently jumped into solo. That's not the even similar to overcoming a challenge with one spell.
Haven't read the rest of the posts yet (haha I figure i'll post this first maybe i'll be answered by the time i catch up).
First.. this looks soo cool. I might end up trying to build someone who just uses the abilities primarily. I like characters like that even if they aren't exactly super efficient. This offers a lot of cool builds
I'm confused by this acid ability though.
Lingering Acid (Su): Whenever the arcanist uses the acid jet exploit, she can expend two points from her arcane reservoir instead of one. If she does, the target takes additional damage on the following rounds if it fails its saving throw. The target takes 1d4 points of acid damage on the following round for every 2d4 points of acid damage dealt by the initial attack. On subsequent round, the target continues to take 1d4 points of acid damage for every 2d4 points of acid damage deal on the previous round. The damage continues until the amount of acid damage dealt on the previous round by this effect is less than 1d4. The arcanist must have the acid jet exploit before selecting this exploit.I don't fully understand how the repeat damage thing works. If anyone understand s that could you explain it?
Lets say you're a 12th level Arcanist (for an even number). Your Acid Jet deals 6d4 points of acid damage on a hit. If you spent 2 points from your reservoir instead of 1, on the following round, the enemy takes 1d4 points of damage for every 2d4 dice on the hit. The same thing for each successive round.
So it goes a bit like this:
Round 1) 6d4 acid damage
Round 2) 3d4 acid damage
Round 3) 1d4 acid damage
Round 4) no damage (less than 2d4 damage on the previous round)
Round 5) effect ends
Effectively, for each successive round, halve the number of damage dice from the previous round (round down on the number of dice). So at 20th level it's 10d4 > 5d4 > 2d4 > 1d4 > no damage.
[Edit] Damn ninjas. :(
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Alright. I looked this over and I am thrilled with this class. I have a character I have been trying to port from another game system for years, but her spell casting never fully meshed with Pathfinder. The system had you store spells in a grimoire, but you could then cast any spell you knew. The catch was it was too dangerous to do that so you had to prepare the spells you wanted on a daily basis.
For anyone who wants to know the game is Earthdawn, the original version. I love my elementalist in there and this class will actually allow me to rebuild her almost perfectly with a few adjustments to account for it being a different game and class. I'll finish building her later and go over the class in full as I do.
When I first saw the revision, I thought it was way too good, and since you were basically getting a whole bunch of extra, very good spells each day, it would only be balanced if they lost another castable spell each day... then my browser crashed and oh hey, here's a new post saying that exact same thing. So, cool. Both a wizard and a sorc can now say "I can cast more spells today, and from off a bigger list!" which should keep the both pretty happy.
The whole exploit thing itself meanwhile reminds me a little of witch hexes, so it's a proper blend of all the d6 casters, and the whole nerdy hacker mage angle really works for me. Reminds me of Roger Zelazny's Changeling and Madwand. Looks really fun to play, feels like its own thing instead of a weird middle ground, so, neat.
The extracts in general really look like they could use an extra editorial pass to idiot-proof the wording and close some nasty loopholes, but the only one where I see problems that aren't a case of "Well, obviously you can't do that with it!" is Dimensional Slide. I might have some bias, because I really like grappling and/or getting up in the face of mages with readied actions and/or step-up, but the fact that that one in particular is supernatural instead of spell-like, and specifically spelled out as "part of a move action" without the restrictions from dimension door makes it into a little too much of get-out-of-jail-free card to me. There's no concentration check, it doesn't even cost an entire move action, and there's really no way to suppress it behind an anti-magic field.
It also has some potential storytelling problems going on. Say I'm the sort of GM who when the chance arises take captured PCs and throw them in a dungeon somewhere if the party runs off and leaves someone dying on the floor. If it's a wizard, "well, they took your spellbook, so no casting your way out." If you're a sorcerer, "well, they keep preventing you from getting any sleep, so your spell slots don't recharge." If you're an arcanist though... I'm a little stumped. If there was a clause about losing your old pool everyday but the new one not refilling without a solid night's rest, or when brought below 0 HP, that'd help there.
Perhaps the options will end up at levels 1,3, 6, 9 etc rather than 1,3,5,7 etc if they prove to be too powerful.
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Intelligence for extra Spell Slots & Spell Known.
Wisdom as the 'to-hit' stat for ranged spell attacks (instead of Dex).
Charisma as the stat for spell's DC.
I think this would be a nice setup for this class (mainly because DEX is already a superb stat).
Regarding the revision, i think the Counterspell exploit is a great one...but should be more costly (2 reservoir points instead of one at the least and expending one spell slot higher or two spell slots of the same level of the spell casted). Otherwise, give access this mechanic to all spellcasters to be fair, since the standard 'ready an action to counterspell' is quite clumsy and never like it from the 3.0/3.5 era.
Looking good so far, keep up the good work!
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Could a wizard beat an arcanist of equal level who has the counterspell arcane exploit? I honestly don't see how.
A game of rock-paper-scissors where the wizard actually loses? Awesomesauce.
I *love* this class. It adds an entirely new play dynamic to the game and mixes up the order of things a bit. Kudos to the designer.