Here is my suggestion for the Warpriest.
1. Add the Aura class feature.
This is needed as it fits the theme of most divine casters[Cleric, Paladin, Inquistor]
2. Change Focus Weapon;
Focus Weapon: At 1st level, a warpriest receives a +1 Sacred[Good]/Profane[Evil], Neutral gains either Sacred or Profane, bonus to attack rolls with the favored weapon of his deity. If the warpriest does not have a deity, he can select any simple weapon.
This would help alleviate the lack of Full BAB progression and bypass the need to grant Weapon Focus at first without having the need BAB.
3. Change Blessings;
I would make it a "Faith" pool giving Faith points equal to 1/2 Warpriest level + Wisdom modifier. Make Minor Blessings cost 1 point and Major cost 2 points.
4. Change Bonus Feats;
I would make Bonus feats gained at 2nd level and get another every three levels.
5. Change Channel Energy;
In conjunction with number 4. and number 3. replace Channel Energy with
Blessings.
So in theory you would get Blessings at first level, 3rd level and every three levels after. Make it similar to Talents or Arcana so that a Warpriest could make himself unique from other Warpriests. Keep the "Domain" theme but add in a small list of general blessings[minor and major] for warpriests to pick from.
Is the name "Warpriest" set in stone? It really seems entirely too awkward to me. Every other class (except for Bloodrager and I suppose Arcanist) has a name which has actually been applied to people in the real world at some point. This sounds more like the sort of semi-derogatory slang someone would use on a message board though- "Our party had a SLASHDUDE, a FLAMETHROWER, a PUNCHWOMAN, and a WARPRIEST."
Off the top of my head, Templar evokes the same image (a fighter/cleric hybrid that is not a paladin, nor bound by paladin morals) with a lot more dignity.
Just a note from us poor HeroLab folks programming these classes, It would be very helpful if I could get how frequently Aspect of War can be used, and also the name of the Plant Blessing's minor ability (it just says "Name", which I assume was a placeholder that was never replaced).
Contributor
|
Is the name "Warpriest" set in stone? It really seems entirely too awkward to me. Every other class (except for Bloodrager and I suppose Arcanist) has a name which has actually been applied to people in the real world at some point. This sounds more like the sort of semi-derogatory slang someone would use on a message board though- "Our party had a SLASHDUDE, a FLAMETHROWER, a PUNCHWOMAN, and a WARPRIEST."
Off the top of my head, Templar evokes the same image (a fighter/cleric hybrid that is not a paladin, nor bound by paladin morals) with a lot more dignity.
I think a Punchwoman would be fun, but a Slashdude would be only for consensual games.
Seriously, though, the Warpriest is the weakest of the new class names. Not a giant problem. The name does describe it fairly straightforwardly. Capellanus or Chaplain was the title of the ordained Templar monks, and it carries forward into modern militaries, though in both cases they weren't combatants.
Templar were in charge of protecting Pilgrimage Roads and Pilgrims as well as temples. Though Crusader might work as well...
Chaplains were combatants depending on the Time you look at. During the Crusades they were battlefield Medics and Priests.
I'm going to add my voice to the crowd that wants channel, Sacred Weapon and Sacred armor to pull from the same pool. I am not a fan of having too many pools to track and the implications of such a move opens design space.
I also think it would be a good idea to make this a full BAB and 4/9 casting class or a divine magus.
I could take a crack at it this evening. Make 'em all two-handers just for simplicity.
|
Also, I agree with the concern that this class is overly front loaded as a dip class.
I'm not sure they need complete martial weapon proficiency, given the intent of the class seems to be to have them focus on the weapon of their deity. That would reduce some of the dip temptation.
I also don't know that you need the bonus feat to be at first level, given you get weapon focus, blessing and spells at first level.
After I see some builds I might be inclined to add something later on, but I want to see what can be build first.
Well, here's my level 6 WARPRIEST who was a rebuild for a Inquisitor I was running.
Less DPR (no Bane, no Anger Inquisition),
No Judgement
Less Skills
Better Armor (+2)
Sacred Weapon
Crap channel.
Feat wise the inquisitor is a bit better off I feel. Teamwork feats grant a big payoff and the cost is multiple chars need to take them. Inquisitor ignores this.
Tandem Trip for example is wicked.
Outflank is great.
Look at the feat progression.
I made a Greataxe Trip monkey which is nice.
I took alignment channel for a 1 level dip in Holy Vindicator.
That will at least make the channel useful.
Class seems to be a tank, with a smaller gun than an inquisitor.
This class should have a fighter's attack bonus otherwise I like it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I find this class kind of 'bland' - compared to other classes like the Inquisitor or the Magus it seems underwhelming, possibly too confined by being squeezed between Cleric and Paladin?
I was also hoping to see a divine take on Magi's Spell Combat or a variant of the 3.5 feat Battle Blessing, so that was a little disappointing.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Having spent the day thinking it over, I think I have a solution to the whole "this entire class is duplicated by the inquisitor" problem that fits exactly in with its design goal and flavor.
1.) As suggested by several people upthread, move the bonus feats to 2nd level, 4th level, and every three levels thereafter to reduce frontloading and dip potential.
2.) Add this, or some variation thereof:
Battle Blessing: At 3rd level, the warpriest gains the ability to call upon his deity's blessings in the midst of battle. Once per day while making a full attack or charge, the warpriest can cast any spell he has prepared with a range of Personal and a target of You as a swift action. At 6th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the warpriest can use this ability an additional time per day, to a maximum of six times per day at 18th level.
The per-day limitation and restriction to personal-range spells is to disincentivize simply preparing divine favor, divine power, shield of faith, bull's strength, and the like in every available spell slot and dropping buffs every round of combat. The levels chosen are the dead levels left by moving the feat progression around; this can easily be adjusted as appropriate by a more comprehensive reordering of the class abilities if warranted. Other means of restricting usage, such as channel energy charges or some sort of divine pool shared with Sacred Weapon/Armor as suggested above could also work.
3.) Tune other abilities as appropriate to account for the power boost this provides. Frankly, I think the focus on self-buff spells is more appropriate and thematic for a caster warpriest than Sacred Weapon and Sacred Armor, the former of which is already a signature ability of the paladin and the latter from a paladin archetype.
Regardless, I'm starting a Rise of the Runelords campaign in the coming weeks, and will open the class selection to the playtest. If any of my players choose a playtest class (I'm not going to make them do it) I'll post regular feedback on the board.
So, here is my suggestion:
Divine Spell Combat: At 1st level, a Warpriest learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast a spell he is capable of casting with a casting time of 1 standard action. This spell must either have a range of personal, or target the Warpriest. If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Wisdom bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A Warpriest can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
|
|
Also limiting it to a full attack would be good, since you would not be able to cast twice in one round.You have an excellent point sir, though I think charging should also be allowed. I'll tune it up and edit that back in. Thank you. :)
So, here is my suggestion:
Divine Spell Combat: At 1st level, a Warpriest learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast a spell he is capable of casting with a casting time of 1 standard action. This spell must either have a range of personal, or target the Warpriest. If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Wisdom bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A Warpriest can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
I don't think the penalty on attacks is necessary. The magus has it because he's actually attacking other people with his spells and that's done as an analogue to two weapon fighting. If he's targeting himself, he's not fighting with the spell.
|
|
So, here is my suggestion:
Divine Spell Combat: At 1st level, a Warpriest learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast a spell he is capable of casting with a casting time of 1 standard action. This spell must either have a range of personal, or target the Warpriest. If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Wisdom bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A Warpriest can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
I just want to say if you do it this way you might as well use the full ou Magus version of it which is any spell that has a casting time of 1 standard action. It would give them a bit more flexibility.
|
|
I just want to say if you do it this way you might as well use the full ou Magus version of it which is any spell that has a casting time of 1 standard action. It would give them a bit more flexibility.So, here is my suggestion:
Divine Spell Combat: At 1st level, a Warpriest learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast a spell he is capable of casting with a casting time of 1 standard action. This spell must either have a range of personal, or target the Warpriest. If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Wisdom bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A Warpriest can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
I don't agree with doing it that way, but I do agree with limiting it to self-buffs and possibly healing (and making the Healing blessing Empower self-heals or something). The warpriest is supposed to be a fighter/cleric hybrid; I think we want him to be hitting things, not being an ubercaster throwing bestow curse on everybody for free.
I just want to say if you do it this way you might as well use the full ou Magus version of it which is any spell that has a casting time of 1 standard action. It would give them a bit more flexibility.So, here is my suggestion:
Divine Spell Combat: At 1st level, a Warpriest learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast a spell he is capable of casting with a casting time of 1 standard action. This spell must either have a range of personal, or target the Warpriest. If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Wisdom bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A Warpriest can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
Might be too powerful. The caveat is there to make this less powerful than Magus spell combat, because the Warpriest is not nearly as reduced in his casting.
Change out the spell progression, and I would agree entirely.
In fact, I think you could justify doing spell combat, spell strike.
Change the arcane pool to a divine one that buffs armor instead of a weapon. Lose spell recall for channel energy and uses of domain powers.
Magus is the template this class should be based on IMO. It solves the martial+caster problem of having to choose between physical or magical actions. As it stands, the Warpriest is not really anything more than a cleric.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Might be too powerful. The caveat is there to make this less powerful than Magus spell combat, because the Warpriest is not nearly as reduced in his casting.I just want to say if you do it this way you might as well use the full ou Magus version of it which is any spell that has a casting time of 1 standard action. It would give them a bit more flexibility.So, here is my suggestion:
Divine Spell Combat: At 1st level, a Warpriest learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast a spell he is capable of casting with a casting time of 1 standard action. This spell must either have a range of personal, or target the Warpriest. If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Wisdom bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A Warpriest can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
You're right, he's not, but even the version you propose has a big hole in it. If you allow him to use any spell that targets himself, you're opening up the mass buffs for free, since those also target the caster as well as allies in a burst or allies/level. Bless, prayer, mass bull's strength/bear's endurance/owl's wisdom, the various magic circle spells, mass cure X and many more besides qualify under the wording you used.
The battle blessing ability I proposed is aimed at the eternal problem of the beatstick cleric: He can either wade right in and start swinging away at 3/4 BAB and likely subpar Strength so that he can get his hits in, or the combat can be over by the time he's done buffing up. I actually actively encouraged a (new) player of mine running a cleric in a 3.5 campaign to rebuild her character with Divine Metamagic (Quicken, obviously) simply because the party's martial classes were destroying encounters in the two rounds it took her to cast a buff and move in and it was causing vocal frustration on her part. Not being able to reliably buff up and do the fighter's job for him is fine for a straight cleric, but a warpriest is supposed to be half fighter anyway and I think it makes a fine iconic ability for the class, which it presently really lacks.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You're right, he's not, but even the version you propose has a big hole in it. If you allow him to use any spell that targets himself, you're opening up the mass buffs for free, since those also target the caster as well as allies in a burst or allies/level. Bless, prayer, mass bull's strength/bear's endurance/owl's wisdom, the various magic circle spells, mass cure X and many more besides qualify under the wording you used.Might be too powerful. The caveat is there to make this less powerful than Magus spell combat, because the Warpriest is not nearly as reduced in his casting.I just want to say if you do it this way you might as well use the full ou Magus version of it which is any spell that has a casting time of 1 standard action. It would give them a bit more flexibility.So, here is my suggestion:
Divine Spell Combat: At 1st level, a Warpriest learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast a spell he is capable of casting with a casting time of 1 standard action. This spell must either have a range of personal, or target the Warpriest. If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Wisdom bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A Warpriest can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
Personally I'd be fine with that. Make the Warpriest the the buff-version of the Oradin: The class that can provide useful buffs to the party in combat and do other things (ie attack or cast control/debuff spells) at the same time.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here is a sample build for that DPR request made a few posts up.
Race: Aasimar (vanilla)
Deity: Gorum
Blessing: Destruction, Glory
Str: 16 (14+2)
Dex: 10 (10)
Con: 15 (13+2)
Int: 10 (10)
Wis: 22 (16+2+2+2)
Cha: 16 (12+2+2)
Feats: Power Attack (retrained, 1st), Furious Focus (retrained, 1st bonus), Channel Smite (3rd), Guided Hand (3rd, bonus), Extra Channelx2 (5th, 9th), Improved Init (6th, bonus), Improved Channel (7th), Vital Strike (9th, bonus)
Gear: M/W Full Plate (make +2 with Magic Vestment), +2 Greatsword, Headband of Wis/Cha +2, Belt of Str/Con +2, Phylactery of Negative Channeling, Amulet of NA +1, Ring of Protection +1, Jingasa, Cloak of Protection +2
A single attack with your weapon increased another +2 with Sacred Weapon would look like so:
+18 vs. AC, 4d6 + 14 + 5d6(DC20)
DPR(AC 24, Will +10): .75*(4*3.5+14)*(1+.1)+.75*(5*3.5)*(.45*1+.55*.5) = 32.6
Full Attack would be:
DPR(AC 24, Will +10): .75*(2*3.5+14)*(1+.1)+.4*(2*3.5+14)*(1+.1)+(.75+(.25*.4))*(5*3.5)*(.45*1+.5 5*.5) = 37.3
If you are able to activate Destructive Attacks for +5 damage, they increase to 36.7 and 43.7, respectively.
I would like to see a full Str build, because this isn't impressive.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You're right, he's not, but even the version you propose has a big hole in it. If you allow him to use any spell that targets himself, you're opening up the mass buffs for free, since those also target the caster as well as allies in a burst or allies/level. Bless, prayer, mass bull's strength/bear's endurance/owl's wisdom, the various magic circle spells, mass cure X and many more besides qualify under the wording you used.Might be too powerful. The caveat is there to make this less powerful than Magus spell combat, because the Warpriest is not nearly as reduced in his casting.I just want to say if you do it this way you might as well use the full ou Magus version of it which is any spell that has a casting time of 1 standard action. It would give them a bit more flexibility.So, here is my suggestion:
Divine Spell Combat: At 1st level, a Warpriest learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast a spell he is capable of casting with a casting time of 1 standard action. This spell must either have a range of personal, or target the Warpriest. If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Wisdom bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A Warpriest can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
That would be my intention, yes.
The Warpriest can pop off a buff on every round he full-attacks. Area buffs, group buffs, personal buffs.These spells are really cool, and really good, and mostly focused on helping a divine caster and his friends in combat, but they can be difficult to get off in a lot of fights.
OTOH, I would not mind seeing the Warpriest get full spell access just like a magus, if they had a slow spell progression. One could also reduce the Divine Spell Combat to say that any spell cast using it only effects the Warpriest, but I actually like the idea of working something like Prayer into an attack action. Or even a mass cure.
The warpriest is then still filling his roll as a support cleric, and at the same time, shoring up his combat prowess to make him a viable frontline fighter.
|
What if doing the Buff Strike reduced the Duration of the Buff by half or so?
I like it, but the problem I see is that it really encourages mass buffing (self or party) too much. On the other hand, part of the point of the Warpriest is t call down the wrath of the divine, so it seems kind of against the point to Buff Strike, though things like Inflict Spells, Flamestrike, and the "divine wrath" spells do seem much more thematic, (but might as well just be a straight Divine Magus).
|
I really like the idea of them "spell-combating" with self-buffs. The key is for them to be able to wade into melee without wasting a round buffing up first.
Another solution is to give them a limited form of Persist Spell. Maybe they choose a number of personal/touch spells = Wis mod, and can make the duration (on themselves only) 24 hours, by burning channel uses.
Yes, this is a problem. One of my players, for example, is a melee-ish Cleric of Calistria. Whip for fun, morningstar when he needs damage. But I can't imagine many Calistrian Warpriests running around.
I imagine that a Calistrian Warpriest would go after the feats/training to make their whips lethal.
|
|
... AHAHAHAHA
Yes, this is a problem. One of my players, for example, is a melee-ish Cleric of Calistria. Whip for fun, morningstar when he needs damage. But I can't imagine many Calistrian Warpriests running around.
I'm tempted to build one out just to see: How well can the Warpriest achieve LUSTY VENGEANCE?
Apparently, Warpriest needs his own UNIQUE flavors.
Essentially he is multiclass (fighter/cleric). If I build fighter/cleric each 10 Lv, he will similar ability or better (and of course some better, but! slightly).
this is my thoughts for his problem.
1. He is not much better just multiclass Fgt/Clr, and very less for paladin.
2. He don't have unique role to play.
3. His ability is all minor duplicate other existing class.
here is my suggestion.
I always think what the paladin make better is his swift laying on hands. and level base use per day. Likewise, warpriest needs more reliable and quick heal for him and his comrade.
He dont needs 6th Lv spell, only needs swift minor buff spell.
blessing needs more buff. more passive stable ability will be good. like CL+1, for magic blessing.
And unique spell is much better I think. (I remind specialty priest-old 2nd greyhawk)
Because the warpriest now has martial weapon proficiency, don't suppose the ones without a deity have an expanded choice for their favored weapon? Hard to imagine a guy who speciliazes in war running around try to beat you to death with a dagger or board pike compared to a greatsword or greataxe.
Built a Warpriest and started playing one this evening.
At first level, it plays very much like a fighter/paladin does. Was prepared to (but did not use) the Good blessing in one fight, and all of the spells wound up being burned for cures. I will be interested to see how it plays out at higher levels.
What if doing the Buff Strike reduced the Duration of the Buff by half or so?
I like it, but the problem I see is that it really encourages mass buffing (self or party) too much. On the other hand, part of the point of the Warpriest is t call down the wrath of the divine, so it seems kind of against the point to Buff Strike, though things like Inflict Spells, Flamestrike, and the "divine wrath" spells do seem much more thematic, (but might as well just be a straight Divine Magus).
Well, I think it would be very cool to have a big ol' divine combat dynamo. Prayer, Protection for Evil, Righteous Might, Divine Power, Divine Favor etc. All seem like cool spells to use.
Heck, they could even just give the Warpriest a pool of points or uses/day to cast these spells as a swift action (if memorized). You could even just make a list or possible spells. I would add Cures to that list.
On his own... he isn't much of a fighter, but when he gets going, the Gods infuse him with power!!
I am also totally okay with a straight divine magus, but the way I wrote the ability, you can only cast on yourself, and more importantly, you don't need a free hand. This is important since many of the Battle oriented Gods have two handed weapons as their favored weapons.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Simple suggestion: let them use their level as BAB when making attacks with their favored weapon. They don't get the d10 hit die, they are out of luck on feat prerequisites, and they can't be a double melee/ranged threat like a fighter, but just let them hit things. Full BAB with favored weapon, that's what I call a hybrid.
Also, there should be a feat that lets a warpriest with the appropriate Weapon Focus use his favorite weapon instead of the deity's favored weapon.
Excellent idea! Although it would be nearly the same as Weapon Focus, the flavor is great.
I just noticed in the Sacred Armor ability, it says to treat greater energy resistance as +5. Since Sacred Armor only lets you enhance the armor up to a maximum of +5, which I take to mean the Armor's total enhancement, both intrinsic and granted by this ability, cannot be above +5. So, there doesn't appear to be any way to actually use this to give your armor greater energy resistance.
If the Armor is already magical you can give it greater energy resistance. A +2 plate can become a greater energy resistance plate Armor +2. Which would be a total Bonus of +7. You still work within the +10 enhancement cap.
Have to agree that the Warpriest class pretty much needs a complete re-work. The problem is, some of the suggestions, if implemented, would make the class too powerful -
Full BAB class & the Sacred Weapon feature combined together with the cleric buffs would end up being overpowered.
Full BAB + Divine Favor + Sacred Weapon = BIG +to hit numbers. Then if you add in Bless and Prayer it get's more crazy.While I do like the concept of a "Divine" Magus people have mentioned. I think we'd need to keep the 3/4 BAB and do away with the Sacred Weapon completely or change it to a version of Arcane Strike feat.
(1)I agree... it needs to stay 3/4 BAB
(2)Drop the casting down to make this a 6 level caster(3)Give them real channel.
(4)Give HAP and Simple weapon prof. + proficiency with favored weapon.
(5)Alter Spell combat to not require a free hand (so 2hander favored weapons can still be used).
Rather than limiting the whole spell list ala Magus, limit the Warpriest's Spell Combat and Spellstrike options. I would do this based on an initial list with common spells (divine power, cures, prayer, righteous might) and then spells specific to each Domain/Blessing.
(6) grant spellstrike.
(7) Instead of an arcane pool, use the divine weapon/divine armor and blessings.
Call it a day.
|
|
Hello all, i have been working a few things out with this class and over my experiences so far this is what my group and i have come up with....instead of getting a split of weapon and armor bonus at different levels make it like a "sacred arsenal" where you get 2 bonus' to put into weapon armor or shield (2 of the 3 once selected can not be changed) bonus last for 1 min per 2 WP levels. channel at 1st,4,7,10,13,16,and 17.
bonus feats at 1,3,6,9,12,15,18
fighter training( like magus) at 10th
2nd level it gets weapon focus
20 level it gets a modified aspect of war that works like 1 min dr 10/- freedom of movement and any use of blessing or channel do not count toward their limit for the day( i haven't been able to test out the capstone yet)
Also an aura and the faith pool very much like magus where its 1/2 level (min 1) + cha or wis ( we havent decided witch yet)the faith pool will be used for the blessing and channel stuffs.
You're right, he's not, but even the version you propose has a big hole in it. If you allow him to use any spell that targets himself, you're opening up the mass buffs for free, since those also target the caster as well as allies in a burst or allies/level. Bless, prayer, mass bull's strength/bear's endurance/owl's wisdom, the various magic circle spells, mass cure X and many more besides qualify under the wording you used.Might be too powerful. The caveat is there to make this less powerful than Magus spell combat, because the Warpriest is not nearly as reduced in his casting.I just want to say if you do it this way you might as well use the full ou Magus version of it which is any spell that has a casting time of 1 standard action. It would give them a bit more flexibility.So, here is my suggestion:
Divine Spell Combat: At 1st level, a Warpriest learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast a spell he is capable of casting with a casting time of 1 standard action. This spell must either have a range of personal, or target the Warpriest. If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Wisdom bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check. If the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still take the penalty. A Warpriest can choose to cast the spell first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon attacks.
That would be my intention, yes.
The Warpriest can pop off a buff on every round he full-attacks. Area buffs, group buffs, personal buffs.These spells are really cool, and really good, and mostly focused on...
Well, if the mass buffs are too powerful then you can limit it to literally just personal buffs. And for buff spells that only have a group option, the Warpriest can still use it if the range is changed to personal at the time of casting.
I don't think either version necessarily oversteps what I would like to see in terms of effectiveness. I would be pretty okay with this replacing channeling or a bonus feat or two.
As one wrote give weapon focus at 2nd as a bonus feat to match with what the feat says. Also should have it own spell list that mix of the Cleric and Inquistor spell lists ie like the Magus has. Also give divine / Faith pool for agumenting it weapons with its blessings.
Channel Engery at 2nd is fine since you can still be healer to like paly.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
i agree with many that this class (and most of the classes in this playtest) are very bookkeeping-heavy...but i think this should be assumed since these are advanced classes for advanced players...here are some of my ideas:
1) either make it a d10 full bab or give it full 9 lvl spellcasting...it should either hit like a fighter or cast like a cleric...this class does neither...
2) lose channel energy...we already have the paladin to be a combat healer
other than these two areas i like the ideas in this class...
i plan on genning one of these up for a wrath of the righteous campaign...i had originally envisioned a cleric of gorum...but when i heard about this playtest and the warpriest i knew i needed to give it a try...
Lead Designer
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Good discussion folks. I think there are some interesting thoughts coming out of this thread. I agree that the class needs a little more to set it apart from its parents, and I can see a number of interesting suggestions that we might be able to use in this thread.
One note, the class may have a fair number of things to keep track of, but not much more than your average cleric that has to keep track of spells, channels, and domain abilities. I am less worried about that than I am about the top heavy nature of this class as it currently stands.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer