Warpriest Discussion


Class Discussion

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I will not bother reiterating what many have already said. Although I believe that the class is fine with 3/4 BaB so long as the rest of the class abilities balance this out. Other than that I would like to suggest a new ability. One that would allow the character the use of any (one) martial weapon as his god's favoured weapon. This makes sense and would be a ton o fun while being a very unique class ability. Possible names are Weapon of Faith, Benediction of Blades, Very Violent Vicar and so on ...

CRobledo wrote:
Nani O. Pratt wrote:
I apologize if this has been brought up before, but consider adding the Aura ability to the warpriest. Additionally, it might be helpful if warpriest levels counted as fighter (or fighter -3) for the purposes of Greater Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization.
I thought hybrid classes counted as their base classes for that stuff? Maybe not?

Wait ... is this true? If so please let me know where thats posted. I have tried to find it and apparently am having a stupid moment.

Cheers
Volf


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Weapon focus has a +1BAB prerequisite. Shouldn't the Weapon Focus text say that he recieves the feat even if he lacks the prerequisites?


Helaman wrote:

I consider this class to be VERY front loaded.

Bonus feat at level 1 - same as fighter.
Free Weapon Focus - passes fighter

On top of that, depending on god, an exotic weapon proficiency (I am looking at you Ragathiel).

Plus factor in that I am getting a handful of spells and a couple of blessings AND Fort / Will saves as primary saves, why wouldn't you want to take a single level of dip here?

Move the bonus weapon focus back later in the progression.

BAB+0 for first level is probably the biggest deterrent of this, especially compared to Fighter.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ellestil wrote:

Variant channelling for Slavery/Tyranny: Harm — Creatures gain a channel penalty on saves against compulsions, pain, and stun for 1 minute.

.
.
.
2. Move action to use quick variant channel Tyranny(which the creature gets a -2 to save from your swift action) to cause channel penalties to saves vs compulsions, pain, and stun for 1 minute. (So -3d6 vs compulsion for example)

Variant Channelling: If an alternative channelled energy provides a "channel penalty" on rolls or statistics, the penalty is initially -1, increasing to -2 at cleric level 5, and every 5 cleric levels thereafter (to a maximum of -5 at cleric level 20).

So no -3d6 penalty on saves vs. compulsions, etc. It's a -3 penalty instead for a 10th level Warpriest (at the earliest). An 8th level Warpriest (earliest level to channel 3d6) could only impose a -2 penalty.

And that Luck blessing only gives a penalty against spells, not supernatural abilities like Channel Energy.

Grand Lodge

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Mikaze wrote:

I'm disappointed by it not being a Full BAB class, to complete the "paladin for all alignments" image I was hoping for with the warpriest, but I'm still taking it all in.

Keep in mind that you're getting 6 levels of spellcasting with full access to cleric spells up to that level and inherent armor and weapon bonuses. With the right spell selection, you can narrow the gap between D8 BAB and D10 BAB.

And if you get to the capstone, you can become that full BAB warrior for the moment you really need it.

For me this is the holy warrior for every diety that a lot of folks have been looking for.

Grand Lodge

Lyee wrote:
Helaman wrote:

I consider this class to be VERY front loaded.

Bonus feat at level 1 - same as fighter.
Free Weapon Focus - passes fighter

On top of that, depending on god, an exotic weapon proficiency (I am looking at you Ragathiel).

Plus factor in that I am getting a handful of spells and a couple of blessings AND Fort / Will saves as primary saves, why wouldn't you want to take a single level of dip here?

Move the bonus weapon focus back later in the progression.

BAB+0 for first level is probably the biggest deterrent of this, especially compared to Fighter.

I lose a point of BAB - survivable. Gain a feat that mostly compensates for this and possibly opens up other pre-reqs later (not sure on how the greater weap focus etc will work).

Its a fair trade - one that justifies the single level dip that opens up wand use, scroll use, will saves and some nifty abilities on top of spells.

Dark Archive

This class seems to have too many problems. I tried building with it a little last night.

First, as everyone states, it is REALLY topheavy. One of the better one-level splashes, as it gives you 2 feats, 2 good saves, access to cleric wands, all martial weapon proficiencies and a (mostly forgettable) blessing power.

Second, I could never see staying in it. Lacking weapon training or enough feats (and full BAB), I don't feel that there's anything interesting as you move up in level. Compare this to the Inquisitor, who has exciting powers that come online throughout the level and spells that can only be cast by Inquisitors, in addition to nearly as many feats (from a more limited list, but Solo Tactics actually make teamwork feats really good).

I'd recommend moving the weapon focus, maybe making an "in between" spell casting progression (a la Sorcerer maybe, but not as many spells per day?), and either throw in weapon training or some cool powers only they can use (the weapon enchantment thing is overdone).


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Spellcombat.

Silver Crusade

jfkg306 wrote:

Harsk

I'm thinking a Warpriest:

A full BAB
Full martial weapons
Full Armor

With 3 level rotations
LVL1 +1d6 channeling
LVL2 Spell Progression
LVL3 Fighter Feat

Lather, rinse, and repeat.

So lvl 9 Warpriest
3d6 channel heal,
Lvl 3 Cleric spells - (yeah I said it) at full caster level power
3 More Combat Feats

That's my kinda war priest!

(still waiting for that e-mail, Mr. Bulmahn!)

I pretty much agree with this except that I think you keep the attack and armor sacred bonus currently where they are. But I wouldn't change them to having full armor and just stay with the up to medium armor.

The Exchange

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Cthulhudrew wrote:
The more I think on it, the more I think using the Channel Energy as the central mechanic for the warpriest's abilities might have worked better; whereas the cleric focuses its channel energy power outwards, to tend to the flock (as it were), the warpriest channels energy inwards, to its own weaponry and armor to better defend the faith in distinction from the cleric. There could be feats to allow him to share that with allies (similar to the Channel Selection ability), etc. It would also thus have a more core mechanic, rather than a lot of separate x/day abilities to keep track of.

Excellent point!

The class is bad. It's bad because it's not very interesting despite the AWESOME concept it tries to capture. I think it should be rebuilt entirely to fit a "paladin of any faith" concept. The class should have:

* full BAB (else it's not much more of a combatant than a cleric can be already, right...?)

* drop spellcasting, the class doesn't need it.

* Base the mechanics of the class on 2 things - one, the weapon-and-armor-enhancing it already has, which is neat as a support mechanic. two, using channel energy to activate blessing powers. Each blessing would grant several spells (similar to how the bloodrager bloodlines do), several feats to chose from when taking extra feats, and several powers that use channel energy as charges.

For example, let's rebuild the air domain (not even trying to make this balanced, just showing the template):

blessing spells: obscuring mist(7th), wind wall(10th), wind walk (13th) , control weather (16th)
blessing feats: dodge, fleet, agile maneuvers, quick draw, step up, weapon finesse, combat reflexes, mobility, wind stance, lightning stance, lightning reflexes, etc.
blessing powers: here is a list of powers that each use channel energy to activate. I will change the two abilities from the playtest to show what I mean:
zephyr's gift:at 1st level, as a standard action, you can expend one use of channel energy to touch a ranged weapon to imbue it with the quality of air. ...
Soaring Assault: at 10th level, as a standard action, you can expand one use of channel energy to touch an ally and give her flight...

And so on. The idea being that you add a bunch of extra powers to each blessing, giving the warpriest enough things to do to compensate for losing spellcasting.


Well, one major effect of the Warpriest is going to be making a deity's favored weapon a much bigger deal--especially to players who focus on maximizing damage output.

Maybe there's a way to "spiritual weaponize" favored weapons, so they all do the same base damage in the hands of a Warpriest? Nah, that probably wouldn't work. But it's going to spark a lot of discussions as to which gods are 'worth' following as a Warpriest, based on their weapon type.

Silver Crusade

Quick comment. Just rebuilt a Lvl 5 GI-Cleric of mine as a Warpriest. Initial reaction: Wow! that's a LOT of feats! At Lvl 5 I have 7 feats: 3 base, 1 human, 3 bonus (incl. weapon focus).

I'm not very experienced with Clerics or with Fighters, but my first balance take:

(1) If I want a warrior-priest, why would I ever want to play a Cleric?

(2) It's a shame we don't have a great "white mage" divine option, the Cleric class is sufficiently battle-inclined that the Warpriest might (as written, with plenty of casting and channeling) step on its toes too much.

(3) Not sure how my Warpriest build would compare to a Fighter of the same level. That's the next task, for later: building the guy as a Fighter and/or Paladin of his deity and comparing all 3 in quick encounters. If the Warpriest's much weaker than a same-level Fighter, that lessens some of my balance concerns I guess.


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Rynjin wrote:

What I expected, but not what I was hoping for. Unlike all of the other classes it feels pretty much exactly like a Cleric/Fighter multiclass than a class of its own (it has Fighter Bonus Feats, but less of them! Domains, but less benefit, and less of them! And so on.). Of all the classes I'd say this one needs some work, because it's kinda boring overall.

+1

My initial impression is: Why play this class when I can play an inquisitor or even a Cleric with some levels fighter?

They don’t even get a domain and their Blessings is activated as a standard action and that makes them really hard to use. Especially at higher levels when it costs you full attack.

And the blessings just seems so uneven in quality and power and some just feels strange. Why can’t the Warpriest of Air grant herself the Soaring Assault? She can give her ally the gift of flight, but she grant it to hear self? Is that really a good Power?

2 skills per level is really not what this class needs, it needs at least 4 per level.

I would not have mind it not got Channeling, but why give it nerfeed Channeling? It is mad as it is, so giving it full Channeling or none at all would have been better.

It feels dull, generic, weak and lacking flavor. Set this class vs. a Cleric with two levels fighter and the Cleric wins out big time.

This and the Skald are my two disappointments but the Skald at least seems more fun and versatile. (Skald really only needs some why of getting Inspire Copenetnse and it is good.).

I will digest this for some time and will comeback with some more concrete and helpful suggestion, but letting Blessings being activated as move action and at higher level as swift actions would help
....and give it more skill points and more fluff.

Silver Crusade

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Calybos1 wrote:

Well, one major effect of the Warpriest is going to be making a deity's favored weapon a much bigger deal--especially to players who focus on maximizing damage output.

Maybe there's a way to "spiritual weaponize" favored weapons, so they all do the same base damage in the hands of a Warpriest? Nah, that probably wouldn't work. But it's going to spark a lot of discussions as to which gods are 'worth' following as a Warpriest, based on their weapon type.

I don't think the Design team is all that concerned with catering to munchkins.


Two things jump out at me as potential problems with the Warpriest as I write one to oppose my PCs for Skull and Shackles.

1.Knowledge is power. The Warpriest benefits from extensive player knowledge of what dieties and diety-like figures exist in the setting.

For example, your player wants to be lawful good and wield a two handed melee weapon. Well, of core that would pigeon-hole him to playing a follower of Sheyln, as the available options are Torag (warhammer), Erastil (longbow), Iomedae (longsword), Irori (unarmed), Abadar (light xbow), Sarenrae (scimitar), or Shelyn (glaive). HOWEVER, if you know about the Emphyreal lords, then you may find out that yes, there is a Lawful Good choice who's favored weapon is the Greataxe. If you don't know about all the other various options in splat books and lore, you are S.O.L.

2. Only martial bent dieties seem like they can effectively field a warpriest. Which makes sense, but is somewhat limiting. A diety's weapon choice can greatly limit just how effective her warpriests are.

Gorum has his Greatsword wielding followers.
Iomedae's legions show up with longswords in hand.
The Pallid Princess Uragotha's daughters come out bearing scythes.
And Pharasma's undead slayers stride forth brandishing ....wait for it.... daggers.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My more detailed first impression: This class is superfluous. Clerics and Inquisitors are superior in every way to the class and while you can argue that the Cleric is more focused on being a caster, it is impossible to ignore that the Inquisitor seems to be better at about everything relevant (damage, skills, tanking, utility) to the Warpriest.

This class needs a complete overhaul to find a place which makes its existance necessary. So far as I can see, the only reason to play it is because you disagree with the flavor of playing an Inquisitor.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Maybe a way to put at ease people who are concerned about playing a Warpriest of a Deity who doesn't have a weapon made for slaughtering things, would to have the WP's abilities apply to weapons they have sanctified to their Deity. That was a crafting upgrade you could put on your equipment to make it count as your Un/Holy Symbol, from Adventurere's Armory IIRC.


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Simple suggestion: let them use their level as BAB when making attacks with their favored weapon. They don't get the d10 hit die, they are out of luck on feat prerequisites, and they can't be a double melee/ranged threat like a fighter, but just let them hit things. Full BAB with favored weapon, that's what I call a hybrid.

Also, there should be a feat that lets a warpriest with the appropriate Weapon Focus use his favorite weapon instead of the deity's favored weapon.


Ooh, I like both of those ideas!


RJGrady wrote:

Simple suggestion: let them use their level as BAB when making attacks with their favored weapon. They don't get the d10 hit die, they are out of luck on feat prerequisites, and they can't be a double melee/ranged threat like a fighter, but just let them hit things. Full BAB with favored weapon, that's what I call a hybrid.

Also, there should be a feat that lets a warpriest with the appropriate Weapon Focus use his favorite weapon instead of the deity's favored weapon.

I second the liking of those two ideas


magnuskn wrote:

My more detailed first impression: This class is superfluous. Clerics and Inquisitors are superior in every way to the class and while you can argue that the Cleric is more focused on being a caster, it is impossible to ignore that the Inquisitor seems to be better at about everything relevant (damage, skills, tanking, utility) to the Warpriest.

This class needs a complete overhaul to find a place which makes its existance necessary. So far as I can see, the only reason to play it is because you disagree with the flavor of playing an Inquisitor.

I agree with this whole-heartedly. To my knowledge, there is nothing that a Warpriest can do better than a Paladin, Inquisitor or Cleric.

In my eyes, the niche of "divine beatstick" has already been filled.


I really like this class. I love Divine characters and when I saw weapon focus for the Deity's favored weapon, it instantly reminded me of the 3.5 Favored Soul reflavored in a way I like.

I do think that the BAB is kinda disappointing, and would really like if it got weapon training in it's deity's favored weapon instead of just focus. I think this would go a long way to clear up some disappointment with the BAB loss. I agree with Master Marshmallow that getting Weapon Spec free would be another nice alternative if weapon training is too much.

I also think letting a Warpriest count as a Fighter at half level to qualify for bonus feats would be a nice addition. Having access to Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Specialization would really bring out the fighter and distance it from Cleric and Inquisitor.

Liberty's Edge

Right now, it seems to be more of a Paladin / Cleric hybrid than a Fighter / Cleric hybrid (the only fightery thing about the class is the additional combat feats, the sacred weapon / armor is more evocative of the bonded weapon ability of the paladin).

I don't mind the 3/4 BAB...the sacred weapon ability helps overcome the deficit for short periods of time, but I would like to see more mastery of the favored weapons, either in the form of a class ability (like a fighters weapon training) or ability to take fighter prerequisite feats specifically for favored weapons so they can be more proficient all the time, not just when they use a limited ability.

I'd also like to see some of spells from the paladin list become available to warpriests.

Shadow Lodge

I think I could live with the BAB the way it is, if so many of the Warpriest's abilities lasted a decent amount of time or did not require a standard action to activate.


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I think Blessings are too much work to learn and memorize. I think Sacred Weapon and Armor could be going somewhere. I think channeling is better left to an archetype.

I was really hoping for a divine equivalent to the Magus.


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I do think the 1d4 Blessings are incredibly weak. As a standard action, I give someone on average 2.5 damage, and the average combat lasts 5 rounds, that's an extra 12.5 damage I could have done merely by two handing my favored weapon.

The idea of Auras resonates with me, even if it's just +1 or +2 damage to help overcome DR. Move action instead of standard would also make it more palatable.

Lantern Lodge

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master_marshmallow wrote:

I think Blessings are too much work to learn and memorize. I think Sacred Weapon and Armor could be going somewhere. I think channeling is better left to an archetype.

I was really hoping for a divine equivalent to the Magus.

This.

Also, it's been mentioned that there is a lot of book keeping in this class. Spells, channeling, sacred this and that, it all adds up.

Why not combine all the non-casting abilities into a lump and control them through an arcane pool or ki type resource. This would allow more channeling die (making it useful in combat), while still falling behind clerics in overall healing ability - sacred armor and weapon would work like the magus' similar ability.

For that matter, other abilities (perhaps a brief charisma boost for social interaction, or additional blessing powers) could be keyed off the ki-type pool as well, allowing warpriests to be made more unique and different while staying true to the design work that's already been done.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lord Twitchiopolis wrote:

Two things jump out at me as potential problems with the Warpriest as I write one to oppose my PCs for Skull and Shackles.

1.Knowledge is power. The Warpriest benefits from extensive player knowledge of what dieties and diety-like figures exist in the setting.

For example, your player wants to be lawful good and wield a two handed melee weapon. Well, of core that would pigeon-hole him to playing a follower of Sheyln, as the available options are Torag (warhammer), Erastil (longbow), Iomedae (longsword), Irori (unarmed), Abadar (light xbow), Sarenrae (scimitar), or Shelyn (glaive). HOWEVER, if you know about the Emphyreal lords, then you may find out that yes, there is a Lawful Good choice who's favored weapon is the Greataxe. If you don't know about all the other various options in splat books and lore, you are S.O.L.

2. Only martial bent dieties seem like they can effectively field a warpriest. Which makes sense, but is somewhat limiting. A diety's weapon choice can greatly limit just how effective her warpriests are.

Gorum has his Greatsword wielding followers.
Iomedae's legions show up with longswords in hand.
The Pallid Princess Uragotha's daughters come out bearing scythes.
And Pharasma's undead slayers stride forth brandishing ....wait for it.... daggers.

Not every faith is equally suitable for war. Nor should it be. the priests of the war god SHOULD be better than the priests whose diety presides over the already dead. That said, a warpriest of Pharasma can still be a major asset if played right. You just would not play that character the same way as you would a warpriest of Gorum.


Quoting and liking for good ideas.

Genuine wrote:

Spoiler:
This.

Also, it's been mentioned that there is a lot of book keeping in this class. Spells, channeling, sacred this and that, it all adds up.

Why not combine all the non-casting abilities into a lump and control them through an arcane pool or ki type resource. This would allow more channeling die (making it useful in combat), while still falling behind clerics in overall healing ability - sacred armor and weapon would work like the magus' similar ability.

For that matter, other abilities (perhaps a brief charisma boost for social interaction, or additional blessing powers) could be keyed off the ki-type pool as well, allowing warpriests to be made more unique and different while staying true to the design work that's already been done.

Rory wrote:

Spoiler:
Channel Energy, Sacred Weapon, and Sacred Armor could all be rolled up into one pool. This would lessen the counters needed to be tracked.

EXAMPLE:

Sacred Pool: WIS + 1/2 level uses per day (min 1). This pool can be used on the following abilities. Gained at 1st level.

Sacred Energy: Able to Channel Energy as a cleric. Healing is 1d6 at 1st level plus 1d6 per 3 levels thereafter. Gained at 1st level.

Sacred Weapon: (same as listed currently except disassociate from a single weapon) Duration lasts 1 minute. Gained as an option at 2nd level.

Sacred Armor: (same as listed currently) Duration lasts 1 minute. Gained as an option at 4th level.

Sacred Recall: Recall one previously cast spell at the cost of one Sacred Pool per spell level. Gained as an option at 6th level.

**************************************************

Ideally, these "Sacred Powers" could be built into a list to allow the War Priest to customize (see Magus arcana list). At every even level, a "Sacred Power" can be gained. You could add in the ability to substitute a pick to add a Combat Feat (once only), Weapon Training (multiple picks), and Armor Training (multiple picks).


Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

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In thinking of this class as a divine magus, I think it needs the ability to cast a spell and attack at the same time. Not necessarily in the same two weapon fighting way that the magus does (though that would be simple to adapt), but with a focus on buff/healing spells rather than touch spells. The point of playing a martial character with the cleric spell list is to be able to cast spells like divine favor, shield of faith, divine power, etc. and wade into battle. Needing to spend multiple rounds buffing up first like a cleric seems to miss the point.


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LazarX wrote:
That said, a warpriest of Pharasma can still be a major asset if played right. You just would not play that character the same way as you would a warpriest of Gorum.

An example of this would be that a human War Priest of Pharasma starts out at first level with the feats...

WF: Dagger, Two Weapon Fighting, Double Slice and Weapon Finesse.

S: 14 D: 16 C: 13 I: 10 W: 14 Ch: 12 (20 pt human)

Two attacks:
+2/+2 daggers (1d4+2, crit 19-20 (x2))

Blessings:
- Healing (swift action heal yourself)
- Repose (melee touch attack to stagger foe)

That's all pretty nifty for a dagger focused War Priest.


Rory wrote:
Channel Energy, Sacred Weapon, and Sacred Armor could all be rolled up into one pool. This would lessen the counters needed to be tracked.

(Example snipped)

This is pretty good. I've been racking my brain trying to think of a good way to emulate something like this, for the same reasons you cite; bookkeeping, if nothing else. Having all these x/rounds+minutes+times per day abilities just makes the warpriest's abilities too cumbersome, IMO. I think using the Channel Energy feature as a pool in some way is a good idea, and I think you have hit on a way to do that that I couldn't quite get my mind around.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Rysky wrote:
Calybos1 wrote:

Well, one major effect of the Warpriest is going to be making a deity's favored weapon a much bigger deal--especially to players who focus on maximizing damage output.

Maybe there's a way to "spiritual weaponize" favored weapons, so they all do the same base damage in the hands of a Warpriest? Nah, that probably wouldn't work. But it's going to spark a lot of discussions as to which gods are 'worth' following as a Warpriest, based on their weapon type.

I don't think the Design team is all that concerned with catering to munchkins.

The thing is, this isn't a problem for munchkins. They'll just pick whichever god gives them the weapon they want and be happy with it. For those of us that want to choose a deity that we like, and that matches our character concept, this can be a major limitation.

I understand the fluff reasons for the focus on favored weapons, and I understand the perspective that priests of war focused gods should be better in combat than priests of less martial deities. However, Paladins are able to use whatever weapon they want to, without worrying about how their god feels about it.

I think a lot of my problems with this class come from comparing it to the Paladin (and I don't think I'm the only one). It seems strange that in order to be a combat focused divine caster that can actually pick and choose weapons, I have to be lawful good. It seems strange that if I want full BAB, d10 HD, and divine spells, I have to be lawful good.

When I saw that Warpriests had martial weapon proficiency, I was really excited, because it suggested that they would have the same flexibility as Paladins. Weapon choice has been the biggest problem I've had with my Inquisitor, and I would really love a better option. I can get over the 3/4 BAB, but the focus on favored weapons means I'm not particularly likely to pick this over Inquisitor. I might do it just for variety, but I would rather see this class fill a space that doesn't already have several other options.


Well, I think they also want to keep Paladins distinct from "just another Warpriest who happens to be Lawful Good."


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thoughts on war priest play test so far

I personally fine with the d8 hit die

I'm not sure of the point of having so many extra feats if we cant use half of the combat feats, War priest

level isn't considered fighter in anyways from my understanding. (and we cant multi-class into it)

If we could access those fighter feats it would be nice to have half your level or -3 your level is

considered fighter level.

that way we don't to far a head of the fighter class.

We lose tons of spells and a good amount of channeling im assuming for the sacred bonuses.

I'm not 100% sold that's a far trade off.

Maybe its own spell list could help things? filled with buffs and awesome touch attacks. but of course keep blade barrier =p
Or let us keep a normal channel energy progression

I'm playing in a high level game right now, we are due to reach 20 sooner then later and the Cap stone ability

seems OK at best. 1 minute duration seems short, and 5 bab , 10DR just seems under whelming for a level 20, How many times can this be used? only once a day?
-------------
It seems war priests are currently a mix of both fighter and cleric but its almost the bad of both worlds.

Crusaders are more fighty then us and have way more spells.

Inquisitor can pretty much do the same thing with using less stats (no need for Charisma), more skill

points AND more spells per day.

shouldn't war priest get feats like combat casting or even the warrior priest feat as the free ones over something like weapon focus that can be easily picked up with combat feats? I mean more things to help the class actually cast in combat would be nice.


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So I've been trying to put together a Warpriest to see how the class will play. I've always been the Cleric in Campaigns I've played in and I've always wanted one that can act as a frontline brawler or tank which can heal the party post combat. That is what I wanted to Warpriest to be, and unfortunately what it isn't.

Like most people on here I was expecting this class to have a high BAB. However after looking at what the class have, I feel making the BAB any better than it currently is might actually make what we have here too powerful as a dip class. With what the class gets at level 1 (Weapon Focus, + Combat Feat, +2 Fort/Will save) having it also give a +1 BAB would give players way too much benefit behind just taking 1 level of warpriest because of all the juice they get.

The combat feat gained at every feat level is nice, but I would like Warpriest levels to count as Fighter levels with concerns to acquiring combat feats. Other classes such as Ranger or Barbarian, who would also enjoy these such feats have abilities to make up for the fact that they lack them. Both mentioned classes have a high BAB, while the barbarian also has their rage and rage abilities, while rangers have their weapon bonus feats and favored enemy. As stated above I do not believe giving the Warpriest a higher BAB is a good idea, as such giving the warpriest some way to get Fighter feats would be appreciated and help to give the class some more options for character advancement. Even something like Warpriest level - 3 for the feats would be appreciated.

The channeling on the class is also rather subpar. At level 4, a Paladin and a Warpriest will essentially have the same power channeling, however that is the only time this will happen. Since a Paladin's level counts as Cleric levels for determining the power of their channel a Paladin will get a full 10d6 channel by level 10 vs the Warpriest's 6d6. As such even when compared to one of the weaker divine classes (with concerns to healing capability) the Paladin at the bare minimum can heal more overall since they have a more powerful channel and are able to use it more per day (since most of their abilities are based off of Cha they will have a higher Cha bonus, giving them more uses).

Then there is the problem of the insane book-keeping involved with having the play a Warpriest. Here is everything you need to keep track of once you hit level 5:
1. Spells Prepared/Spells Used
2. Channel uses per day
3. Blessing Uses per day/Blessings Used
4. Sacred Weapon Round per day/Sacred Weapon type chosen
Then once you hit level 7 you also add in Sacred Armor, which is a 5th thing to track. Basically I don't like needing to feel like I am an accountant while having to play an RPG Character.

Now before I go on and talk about how to fix the problems I have addressed, I'm going to let the devs knows what I really enjoy about the class.

First, I actually like how for the most part, this class feels like what I pictured a combat cleric to be. The bonus feats make me feel like I can actually fulfill a combat role, while also being a necessary healer once the melee is over. All in all I think Paizo did a good job of creating this class with all but what I have mentioned above.

For all those who want the Sacred Armor and Weapon ability to be like the Magus once, I feel it isn't necessary. Honestly as it stands each of those abilities act like a pretty overpowered bonus spell we can use every day. Add to that the fact that said spell is basically able to be suspended and reused until we've hit it's full usage and I don't think it's too much of a problem. However a slight duration increase for the Sacred Weapon might be nice.

Now then, onto possible solutions.

As I said about the Combat Feats, even something as simple as Warpriest level - 3 counting as Fighter levels would be nice. It still cuts the class off from a decent amount of combat feats (due to the lower BAB in addition to this) but it gives enough extra feats to use to allow for a lot more customization between players.

The last two problems I mentioned can actually both be fixed together. Modify how the Warpriest's Channeling works. First the stat used for the Channel should be changed to WIS, or the Warpriest's spellcasting should be changed to CHA. This also helps make the class less MAD. Then at levels where you get Sacred Weapon and Sacred Armor, you make them cost Channel uses, as well as give you additional Channel uses. This way the Warpriest just needs to track:
1. Spell per day/Spells used
2. Blessing per day/Blessing Used
3. Channel Uses per Day/Channels used
This still leaves the issue of having to track the Sacred Weapon bonus and Sacred Armor bonus you are using, but when you also don't have to track the uses per day you have for it, that isn't much of an issue.

TL:DR - Stop being lazy and read my post, I put some effort into it T_T

Scarab Sages

Alright I finished building up my new PFS Asmodean warpriest - probably won't get to play him for a week and a half though. I had a couple of thoughts.

Firstly, in regard to the large number of things they get at level 1, I would personally be really happy if the level 1 bonus feet was moved to level 2. Its actually really challenging to even find combat feets that you qualify for with 0 BAB. I wound up picking improved initiative and I'd wager almost all single class warpriests will too. At level 2 I would have had much more interesting choices of power attack, channel smite, step up and the still quite good improved initiative. I think moving the bonus feet to level two would both make the class less dippable (I hate the idea of classes that no one takes more than one level of) and subtly stronger and more versatile.

Secondly, I agree that using the favored weapon is flavorful and all but it feels kinda lame as it actually plays out. When picking gear for my new warpriest I grabbed a cold iron heavy mace (deities favored). I then went looking for a backup weapon since I want to be able to deal with silver, piercing, and slashing DR (being eaten by a juju zombie would be an embarrassing end). So I grab a silversheen nodachi, it nicely fills those gaps and gives brace as a bonus. The problem is that when I was looking at my character's attack routines I can find very little reason not to use the nodachi as my primary weapon. At level 4 this becomes a bit more difficult of a choice when the mace will get to be more magic (I think I'll likely enchant both to +1 by then). Most of the difficulty will be in the fact that I'll be ignoring two class features on the other hand if I could use the nodachi as my sacred weapon then at level four I could look forward to being awesome with a keen sword. That would be cool. As is, I'll probably just feel awkward.

This second problem is really gnawing at me. I don't really want to worship one of the lesser pit lords such as Belial or Greyon simply because they get an actual martial weapon, and I don't like that the class mechanically pushes me to do so. All paladins can use any marital weapon freely. All inquisitors can at least use a longbow with their powers. I really don't like having the sacred weapon being so tightly bound to the deities favored weapon. The more I think about it the less happy it makes me. Thank goodness I didn't try to make a warpriest of my actual favorite deity - Abadar. Light crossbows. Shudder.

That said I'm really looking forward to playing this character. The blessings seem really fun and flavorful. I've chosen the Magic blessing to give me a bit of reach in the first round of fighting and Trickery to boost my defense with its copycat. I'm swinging for +6(1d10+6/18-20) or +7(1d8+6) depending on weapon at second level.


On a side note...
I dunno that "extra bookeeping" is something that should be a valid counter point or concern.
This is an advanced class. I would expect there would be more for a player to have to do to manage it.

Just my 2 CP.


Current issues
1. many Blessings, particularly the elemental blessings are very lack luster
2. The level one ability of the healing blessing should be a class feature.
3. Sacred weapon should be a minute per level. Also allow a Warpriest to apply sacred armor and weapon simultaneously considering how much this class relies on swift actions.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber

Having read through the board and comments I think two changes will definitiely make the Warpriest a unique blend and provide it with the needed balance.

Sacred Pool - Give it channel energy, sacred weapons/armor etc.. but in a single pool of points.

Spell Combat - Self/ally only targeting, touch spells only, give it a unique flavor that allows some buffing/healing while still frontline striking.

Extras

Give it a bonus to Concentration to cast defensively may be one linked to number of allies around it or enemies threatening it.

Blessing/channel and bonus feats don't feel unique at all, the spell combat angle introducing something new.

I like the idea of the I cast Bull Strength, step up and squish the bad guy or rather than a Paladin healing as a swift, I heal my friend the rogue and then move into flank and hit the bad guy.


Ellestil wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Just finished a Marathon Campaign with a Warpriest. Got to Level 18 before he died, admittedly do to bad rolls for reflex saves against a Dragon, but honestly it felt more like I was playing a Crusader Cleric Gestalted with a Weapon Master Fighter than a unique class...

I definitely feel it would be better suited as an Archetype or maybe even split into 2 Archetypes. It is overly M.A.D. especially if you aren't using a higher Point Buy or Roll very good stats.

** spoiler omitted **

Could you give more details on how the class played at various levels and what build you went with? How it performed according to the purpose it was made for?

Sorry was working on formatting a complete review.

As complete I can get right now:

Honestly I went for a basic Longsword/Free-Hand Build. Focusing on second rank support fighting. As a whole it performed ok though like I said it was more like playing a Gestalt than a unique class.

I only used the unique class features maybe 3 or 4 times in the whole campaign. And those were only to give a boost against a few enemies at the lower levels sadly it only helped counteract the M.A.D.'ness of the class.

On the tracking issues: I find they don't have anymore to track than a Wizard, Sorcerer, or any other caster.

Sovereign Court

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Matthew Trent wrote:
Firstly, in regard to the large number of things they get at level 1, I would personally be really happy if the level 1 bonus feet was moved to level 2. Its actually really challenging to even find combat feets that you qualify for with 0 BAB.

I would be perfectly happy with a feat at 2nd, 5th, 8th and so on levels. It gives you the same number of feats overall, but hits some important milestones along the way including when you reach BAB +1, BAB +6 and your last level in regular PFS.


Matthew Trent wrote:
Firstly, in regard to the large number of things they get at level 1, I would personally be really happy if the level 1 bonus feet was moved to level 2. Its actually really challenging to even find combat feets that you qualify for with 0 BAB.

+1

One of many problems with this class. It has to wait until level 3 to get Power attack, just because it is a 3/4 BAB class.

An AP seldom runs higher than level 16. What can this class do that a level 12 cleric/level 4 Weapon Master can’t do?

Heck, a level 13 cleric/level 3 Weapon Master can even cast level 7 spells, gets two domain and she gets Weapon training. With gloves of dueling that’s +3 to attack and +3 to damage and she is still able to buff with Divine Power etc. With Magical Knack she only loses one CL.

Or even better, Why not just play a 13 level Crusader and 3 level Weapon Master with the Magical Knack trait. More spells, level 7 spells, better BAB, a domain, Weapon training, better Channeling and only -1 to CL.

My wish: Make this a full BAB class with 4/9 casting or make this some sort of Divine magus. To me this is just a nerfed cleric with some bonus feats that can grant her weapon and armor some bonuses. It can’t even pick fighter feat like weapon specialization. Something both the Magus and The Crusader can. The Warpriest class is going to be MAD so give it 4 skills per level.

Edit: If you keep it a 3/4 BAB class it should be able to pick fighter feats and class level -3.

Silver Crusade

I've been giving this class a lot of thought because I want it to be my favorite for some reason. I think a really good way to do the war priest is as follows:

Full BAB

Medium armor proficiency

Strong fort and will saves

Have the clerics energy channel progression

Keep bonus feat at every three levels

Simple and martial weapon proficiency

Weapon proficiency with diety's weapon
Weapon focus at second level

Keep sacred weapon and armor as is

And as far as the blessings go. I would have them be a three part class ability. You get access to minor at 1st, the intermediate at 8th, and major at 16th (while making the major a bit more powerful)

Keep aspect of war as is

I could leave or take "spell combat" although I like the idea of debuffing enemies while I smack them for some damage

Last for spells what I would do is keep it going up to lvl 6 spells but then severally limit the spell selection. I would make it all buff and debuff spells with cure/inflict spells then have access to the spells on the according blessing/domain spell lists. I would also change the spontaneous casting to be any of his blessing/domain spells rather then cure/inflict

I like that and think it does well while keeping with the theme and making him different enough to justify his own class rather then feeling like an alternate to cleric/fighter multiclass (a poor one at that)

Liberty's Edge

The blessings are mechanically fine to me, but because they are tied to domains, some of them end up being goofy choices for the warpriest, depending on their deity. Abadar has access to several minor blessings that bolster melee attacks, even though his favored weapon is ranged. Erastil has access to animal fury which makes an ally feral, even though he is mostly about domestication. I think I'd almost rather see blessings completely disconnected from domains and make them more like mysteries (where there are suggested deities, but not a requirement).


Flamehawke wrote:
Lord_Malkov wrote:

Well... its disappointing, sort of. I mean the cleric is already really solid, that its hard to pack too much in there.

But I have to say, what I wanted to see was a sort of reverse Spellstrike divine class. But rather than casting a spell on their opponent, they can instead cast a spell on themselves there are all sorts of great buffs available to clerics, but it is often hard to be able to get them cast just before a combat.

If a Warpriest could cast a single spell with range of personal or a single target spell that targeted themselves (like a cure) as part of a full attack action by taking -2 on their attacks... that seems like it would be pretty cool and actually unique.

They could lose the bonus feats for all I care, and the whole Magic weapon/magic armor thing. The only thing I would add aside from this would be effective fighter level = class level for feats that apply to your deity's favored weapon.

Just want to say. What you are describing is more akin to Spell combat on the Magus. Which lets you cast any spell with a standard action. It operates pretty much as you stated. The variation of Magus for weapons was folded into that.

I do like the look of Magic Weapon/Armor and the bonus feats. That all sort of reminds me of the magus, but without the in combat spell casting abilities and bonuses of the magus. I was expecting that on my first glance at the class as my impression was a divine magus with blessings instead of arcana. I will see how this plays on friday, but right now I see areas that could be improved just by borrowing a few magus tweaks for it, but I want to see how it runs before deciding.

I already had to tell a player to try a class and see how it runs then give how it runs. So I will wait and see how it runs for me with variant channeling on friday.

Yes, spell combat... that is what I meant.

I think that a cleric can be pretty formidable with the right buffs available, and giving him this option to buffs and heal himself while fighting would solve that action economy dilemma.

This would basically make the warpriest a divine magus, but that makes sense to me. I w ould also suggest reversing the weapon buffing to armor buffing. Again pulling from the inspiration of a sort of anti-magus

Silver Crusade

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I haven't had much chance to play the class, but I did look through it and admit I'm disappointed. We already have several classes, and intuitive multiclass paths, that do what this class mostly accomplishes. It's basically a Cleric with a bit of Fighter dipping. If I want to do that, I can easily just build a Cleric that picks up 1-3 levels of Fighter. It doesn't involve much rules gymnastics, and I suspect it would be the mechanically superior character anyway.

Was hoping the Warpriest would be more the 'Paladin equivalent for the other alignments.' Full BAB, d10 HD, focusing on war primarily, with 'priest' being their secondary thing. This is more like a Priestwar, to use an odd term. I already have plenty of d8, 3/4 BAB divine classes to work with for the various alignments.

As it is, while I'm open to being talked out of this... my first glance at the class does not leave me feeling it addresses any serious mechanical or thematic gaps that I couldn't already handle with some easy builds.

What I want out of hybrid classes is easily facilitating concepts that are hard to do with traditional multiclassing. Failing that, I want them to add some interesting new ideas.

Given this is the class I was most looking forward to, I am a little disappointed. At least some of the others are neat, and I appreciate that the devs are clearly watching these threads.

Silver Crusade

christos gurd wrote:

Ok my suggestion for a class ability (as a channel replacement)

Warpriest training: A Warpriest treats his Warpriest class levels as his BAB for the purposes of feat prerequisites. In addition he is treated as having the channel energy class feature for feat prerequisites.
Hows that sound?

The second part sounds overly broad. Just to stick to core, it lets him qualify for Turn Undead despite having no actual channeling. Besides, if this was done, there'd be no point to taking the feats even though the warpriest qualifies, since they all require expending uses of channel energy to use, and he would have no uses of channel energy.


So, I made two misconceptions on this class.

First, I believed it had full BAB, it was the fighting-man's cleric that had some nifty utility while largely being martial. This was corrected, I flicked to my PDF, saw 3/4 BAB progression and 9 levels of spell progression: Ah right, this is clearly the class that lets me be a feasible melee while still getting cleric spells at only a level later, neat! Commune and Plane Shift at level 9 on a combat-capable class each filled a niche I wanted.

I skimmed the fact that I had opened the Shaman's page on that occasion.

Without full casting or full BAB, this really doesn't fill 'Paladin of any alignment' (which isn't something I want, but should really be there imo). Or the 'full cleric spell progression but can fight' that I wanted. Ah well, back to desperately trying to shoehorn an oracle into hitting things well.

Grand Lodge

Unsure if anyone posted about this yet, but a little clarification on these please;

Charming Presence (minor): At 1st level, as a standard
action you can touch an ally to grant an entrancing
blessing. For 1 minute, the ally becomes mesmerizing
to her opponents, either out of admiration or fear. This
functions as sanctuary, except if the ally attacks, it only
breaks this effect with respect to that opponent. This is a
mind-affecting effect.

When the ally uses an AOE, does that count for *every* enemy hit by it, or specifically the one targeted by the spell?

Selfish Healer (minor): At 1st level, as a swift action you
can cast a prepared cure spell on yourself. This counts
as a quickened spell for your turn, and doesn’t provoke
attacks of opportunity.

Just to make sure this is clear, the Cure spell itself must have been prepared, not cast as a spontaneous casting?

Thanks!

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