Warpriest Discussion


Class Discussion

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To be honest, I don't like how this class was put together. It gets more bonus combat feats, which you could have gotten by just multiclassing Fighter and Cleric, and to make up for it gets reduced spellcasting and reduced channeling, which, again, you would have gotten by just multiclassing Fighter and Cleric. But if you multiclassed, you'd even have a higher BAB than the Warpriest.

I think the devs are underestimating the value of BAB versus combat feats for martial characters; BAB doesn't affect just attack bonuses, but also damage scaling from Power Attack, and access to a LOT of important combat feats. I was really hoping for more of a "Paladin of any alignment," who would get full BAB and 4-level spellcasting.

Silver Crusade

I don't agree that the warpriest class needs to be full BAB and half casting. I see it as aiming for a battle cleric, not a knight/paladin copy, and I aim my suggestions towards facilitating that rather than reworking the entire class into something else.

I still feel that to capture the essence of combat cleric (distinct from the actual, existing cleric class) the warpriest should capitalize on the cleric spell list's array of buffs. Having discussed it with several other people in the interim, however, I've been swayed to the need to allow a wider variety than just the self-only combat buffs, so I revise as follows:

Quote:
Battle Blessing: At 3rd level, the warpriest gains the ability to call upon his deity's blessings in the midst of battle. Once per day while making a full attack or charge, the warpriest can cast any cleric spell he has prepared as a swift action provided the spell targets the warpriest, his wielded weapon, or his worn armor. At 6th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the warpriest can use this ability an additional time per day, to a maximum of six times per day at 18th level.

As before, the proposed ability is timed to fill the dead levels left by moving the bonus feats to 2nd level and every three thereafter.

I'm concerned that this may go too far the other way, though. The paladin has swift action lay on hands; this guy at higher levels would have swift action heal. That could be specifically targeted by specifying that the spell chosen must be at least one spell level lower than the highest the warpriest can cast, but I worry that in the vastness of the cleric/oracle list across all the books that there may be other things that the wording would allow that would simply outshine similar abilities of other classes, and anyway it would further delay bringing the big-gun self buffs online (not to mention only allowing orisons when the ability is first gained if the timing remains the same). To clarify, I do think the warpriest should be able to self-heal in combat if we expect him to be able to fulfill the tank role with d8 hit dice and a focus on his casting stat, but the huge burst healing and debuff remover that is heal would have the effect of resetting the entire encounter with a warpriest; it would be like fighting a phoenix. Thoughts?

Sovereign Court

Rynjin wrote:

Sorry Ciretose, been busy. Not sure if anyone's made builds yet, I've skimmed this thread at best.

Quick level 10 Fighter build here, two-handed weapons, nothing too fancy, to compare to a Warpriest.

** spoiler omitted **

Anybody have a standard Warpriest to compare it to or should I make one of those as well? Warpriest of Gorum would probably be the best match-up.

I did a Wis-based Guided Hand build a few pages back. Below will be a basically the same build as your fighter but with Channel Smite.

Sample Fighter DPR:

Single Attack: +24vsAC(24) 2d6+25 = .95*(2*3.5+25)*(1+.2) = 36.48
Full Attack: +24/+16vsAC(24) 2d6+25 = .95*(2*3.5+25)*(1+.2)+.65*(2*3.5+25)*(1+.2) = 61.44

Warpriest of Gorum:

Male Human Warpriest 10
Deity: Gorum
Blessing: Destruction, Glory

Str: 22 (16+2+2+2)
Dex: 10
Con: 15 (13+2)
Int: 10
Wis: 14 (12+2)
Cha: 16 (14+2)

AC: 26

Initiative: +6
Saves: Fort +11, Ref +5, Will +11

CMB: +13
CMD: 25

Attack routine:

+4 Greatsword +18/+13 (2d6+12+5d6(C), 19-20/x2)

OR POWER ATTACK

+4 Greatsword +18/+11 (2d6+18+5d6(C), 19-20/x2)

Traits: Reactionary, Eyes and Ears of the City

Feats:

1.) Intimidating Prowess
Human Bonus: Power Attack (-2, +6) [retraining]
Warpriest: Weapon Focus: Greatsword
Warpriest bonus: Furious Focus [retraining]
3.) Channel Smite
Warpriest bonus: Improved Initiative
5.) Extra Channel
Warpriest bonus: Cornugon Smash
7.) Improved Channel
9.) Extra Channel
Warpriest bonus: Cleave

Class abilities: Sacred Weapon +2, Sacred Armor +2

Gear: M/W Full Plate (+2 w/Magic Vestment, +2 w/Sacred Armor), +2 Greatsword (+2 w/Sacred Weapon), Headband of Wis/Cha +2, Belt of Str/Con +2, Phylactery of Negative Channeling, Amulet of NA +1, Ring of Protection +1, Jingasa, Cloak of Protection +2

Single Attack
DPR(AC 24, Will +10): .75*(2*3.5+14)*(1+.1)+.75*(5*3.5)*(.45*1+.55*.5) = 26.8

Full Attack would be:

DPR(AC 24, Will +10): 0.75*(2*3.5+18)*(1+0.1)+0.4*(2*3.5+18)*(1+0.1)+(0.75+(0.25*0.4))*(5*3.5)*(0 .45*1+0.55*0.5) = 42.4

+5 damage from Destructive Attacks increases the DPR to 31.0 and 48.7, respectively.

So no matter whether you have the two swift actions and a standard to fully buff, or not, you are quite a bit behind the fighter. The hard part is making up for the +7 to hit you are getting from full BAB and Weapon Training. Being able to add +2 to a weapon does not make up for that.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

For the folks that think that fighter/cleric multiclassing would create a stronger build than this, keep in mind that the warpriest has full caster levels, which is huge. It means that they are able to break SR on their offensive spells, spells last longer, and do more. IMO the hit to caster level is the single biggest reason caster class multiclassing doesn't work well.

Silver Crusade

I do not know if this question was answered yet, I do not have time to review all of the postings concerning this class.

Under sacred weapon it States that the weapon loses all abilities once it leaves the Warpriest's possession. I am making a Warpriest of Desna, favored weapon starknife.

If I throw the weapon, does it lose all of abilities I just put on it?

What if I enchant it with returning?

If it does lose it's bonuses, I will have to rethink my build.

Shadow Lodge

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Ill second that the paladin of any alignment is not the way to go. In all honesty if thats what you want, scratch off the Lawful and/or Good, but its probably not helping here, as that was never the goal with the Warpriest. It has always been a Cleric/Fighter mash up. :)

Shadow Lodge

Gregor Klegain wrote:

I do not know if this question was answered yet, I do not have time to review all of the postings concerning this class.

Under sacred weapon it States that the weapon loses all abilities once it leaves the Warpriest's possession. I am making a Warpriest of Desna, favored weapon starknife.

If I throw the weapon, does it lose all of abilities I just put on it?

What if I enchant it with returning?

If it does lose it's bonuses, I will have to rethink my build.

Looks that way, but I wouldnt think that was the intent as much as to keep it for the Warpriest only.

Shadow Lodge

Robert Little wrote:
For the folks that think that fighter/cleric multiclassing would create a stronger build than this, keep in mind that the warpriest has full caster levels, which is huge. It means that they are able to break SR on their offensive spells, spells last longer, and do more. IMO the hit to caster level is the single biggest reason caster class multiclassing doesn't work well.

True, but most likely people are referring to only 1-3 levels of Fighter at most, so its not that much.


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I'm also against the "Let's make this a Paladin without any alignment restrictions" idea.

My first impression is that the War-Priest can do a lot to help boost his own martial prowess, or simply buff the party. Many of the blessings can be used on allies or any weapon, so instead of focusing on what this class can do 1v1, I think we should look at what kind of support role it can play. A war-priest with the animal domain can give an early boost to his natural weapon ranger pal by granting those early natural attacks, any of the bonus damage to weapon blessings can be used on your fighter/paladin's weapon to further increase their output, and there are several other blessings (like Liberation and Charm) that have utility value as well.

With all the suggestions I see on the board, I think we really need clarification as to what the direction of the class was intended. If this is meant to be a front-line beat stick with some spell support, then the BAB increase and removal of channel makes sense. If it's intended instead as a support for front line melee fighters, then I think making the blessings swift instead of standard would be a huge benefit, and improving the channel or spell list would be the way to go.


had radical, more than likely too powerful thought, what if the sacred weapon thing was permanent to any favored weapon you wield but didn't stack with the weapon's enhancement bonus'...yeah i don't know maybe not.

Liberty's Edge

Rynjin wrote:

Sorry Ciretose, been busy. Not sure if anyone's made builds yet, I've skimmed this thread at best.

Quick level 10 Fighter build here, two-handed weapons, nothing too fancy, to compare to a Warpriest.

** spoiler omitted **

Anybody have a standard Warpriest to compare it to or should I make one of those as well? Warpriest of Gorum would probably be the best match-up.

No worries, I've been slacking myself. Sick two year old had me up until 2 am on a work day...

Hopefully this weekend I'll dig into the builds, although I almost want to wait for the bump that will be coming for this one.

Liberty's Edge

RtrnofdMax wrote:
Rynjin wrote:

Sorry Ciretose, been busy. Not sure if anyone's made builds yet, I've skimmed this thread at best.

Quick level 10 Fighter build here, two-handed weapons, nothing too fancy, to compare to a Warpriest.

** spoiler omitted **

Anybody have a standard Warpriest to compare it to or should I make one of those as well? Warpriest of Gorum would probably be the best match-up.

I did a Wis-based Guided Hand build a few pages back. Below will be a basically the same build as your fighter but with Channel Smite.

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

This comfirms my concern about the weapon bonus needing a swift.

If they just limit it to the favored weapon of the deity, I don't see why it can't be an "always on" feature when used by the war priest only.

I think you can pour a good amount into that area and still not step on any toes or cause power issues. I would actually increase the weapon bonuses significantly.

Even if it applied to two weapons favored weapons, one in each hand, the lack of feats will provide a limiting factor.

And again, I really like the flavor of the concept. I'm not really concerned with some favored weapons being better if the bonus is the bigger deal.

A dagger is actually really awesome if each one you have gets the bonus when you use it.


christos gurd wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:

Would it be wrong to suggest to look at the divine champion PrC from 3.5 for ideas?

It looked like the warpriest was trying to go in that direction...
err, which book was this in? I checked complete divine and the srd, neither had it.

Might've been called Ordained Champion...


Rynjin wrote:

Sorry Ciretose, been busy. Not sure if anyone's made builds yet, I've skimmed this thread at best.

Quick level 10 Fighter build here, two-handed weapons, nothing too fancy, to compare to a Warpriest.

** spoiler omitted **

Anybody have a standard Warpriest to compare it to or should I make one of those as well? Warpriest of Gorum would probably be the best match-up.

A couple of suggestion. You do not really need to go mithral, you have armor traning after all. I woudl recommend to drop mithral and improve your cloack to +3 and buy cracked pale green prism ioun stone.

I know this is just for comparision, but it would be misleading if the fighter do not work aroudn one of his major problems.

====================

BTW the comparision shoudl be agaisnt a paladin, inquisitor and/or a cleric/fighter.

Actually, I think the cleric 8/fighter 2 or cleric 7/ fighter 3 shoudl be the best, because if you can do the "warpriest" with multiclassing the, as it is, there is no point in having this new class.

Shadow Lodge

They are two different classes. Divine Champion (CD) was a Fighter Prestige Class that gave you 9th level spellcasting in 10 levels but only for Domains.

Ordained Champion was a 5 level Cleric Prestige Class that gave a little martial boost (CC).


Let me just put in a little disclaimer here:
I have to give my thoughts in from two different perspectives. See, the way I run this game (and want to play, but never get to because I can't GM for myself) very differently from the way it is written and all the unexplicit assumptions present in the rules. I don't use magic items (even healing potions). I don't let the game get past mid level unless nobody is a spellcaster. I discourage full casters, actually, though I don't ban them. There is almost no wealth--the economy is more "realistic" and PCs don't get rich by killing bad guys. When I can, I run E6 or E8 instead.

However, I am well aware of how the game is actually written and commonly played, so I will have to give my answer both for my personal use and for the more common, general use.

My Game:
This is an unsuccessful class for sure. Paladins are better warriors. Clerics are better casters. Inquisitors are better warriors and better casters. Absolutely no flavor benefit is gained by using Blessings over Domains. I would rather people play a Warpriest than a Cleric, but I'd rather they play an Inquisitor or Paladin than either, so it doesn't really matter.

I don't feel that there's any compelling reason for this class to exist.

The Typical Game:
This is an unsuccessful class for sure. Clerics have 3/4 BAB, full channeling, two domains, and 9 level casting. The Warpriest has 3/4 BAB and 6 level casting, less Channeling, psuedo-domains called Blessings, and well, nothing to make up for the lost spells. Yes, they get some feats and armor proficiencies, but well, in the reality of pathfinder, they don't matter and certainly aren't as valuable as spells.

Unfortunately, spells > every possible other thing you could do. So, losing spells to gain feats is a terrible trade. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you can't make a viable character by trading off those last three levels of spells for other features, I'm just saying that those features better be worth it (i.e. bombs/discoveries, solo tactics/bane, spell combat/spell strike, bardic music) and not just some feats.

I don't feel that there's any compelling reason for this class to exist.

Silver Crusade

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DM Beckett wrote:
Ill second that the paladin of any alignment is not the way to go. In all honesty if thats what you want, scratch off the Lawful and/or Good,

That's simply not an option in sanctioned (PFS) play. You can't do that, and it restricts a very fun set of class mechanics to only one of nine alignments... then saddles it with that fight-at-table-causing Code of Conduct. This may not be a problem for everyone, but it has been in my experience and is one of my major ongoing complaints with Pathfinder. I will be a little sad if a chance to fix it is missed.

This may not be "The goal of the Warpriest", but the Warpriest as currently envisioned seems really redundant. Significant revision will be needed, and the BAB behavior will be part of it. As it is, I just look at the class and go "...Nah. Pass."

Shadow Lodge

I actually like a lot of the Blessings better than Domains. Really considering using them instead as you can actually use, or I should say benefit from using them on yourself, unlike most Domain powers. But Ive always hated PF Domains, too.


Ok, This is one of the classes that I consider most boring, unninteresing and repetitive. I think, as it stand, the class is pointless and adds nothing that can not be done by multiclassing.

But I might be wrong of course, so I have proposal for the community I build a cleric 7/fighter 3 or a cleric 8/fighter 2 (using whatever I want of those classes) for every major god of golarion, everyone of them will use the favored weapon of his deity.

Somebody else then build a warpriest for that deity and we see how they compare mechanically and more imortantly (IMHO) thematically.


Nicos wrote:

Ok, This is one of the classes that I consider most boring, unninteresing and repetitive. I think, as it stand, the class is pointless and adds nothing that can not be done by multiclassing.

But I might be wrong of course, so I have proposal for the community I build a cleric 7/fighter 3 or a cleric 8/fighter 2 (using whatever I want of those classes) for every major god of golarion, everyone of them will use the favored weapon of his deity.

Somebody else then build a warpriest for that deity and we see how they compare mechanically and more imortantly (IMHO) thematically.

Build?

Scarab Sages

A Thought On Spells

What if positive channeling warpriets used the paladin list, negative channeling warpriests used the antipaladin spell list.

Unfortunately this would mean dropping to a 4 spell level progression, but I think no one would mind if we shifted up to full bab to make up for that.


Matthew Trent wrote:

A Thought On Spells

What if positive channeling warpriets used the paladin list, negative channeling warpriests used the antipaladin spell list.

Unfortunately this would mean dropping to a 4 spell level progression, but I think no one would mind if we shifted up to full bab to make up for that.

I would rather they make archetypes for that for the paladin, rather than create a whole new class to replace the paladin.

This class really needs to be our divine magus, like badly.

Magus is half fighter, and he counts his levels as half fighter levels, this class should too.

The magus can cast and fight at the same time with negatives, this class should too.

There should be a list of Blessings to choose from like Magus Arcana, and channel energy should be on that list.

This class is so MAD it's not even funny, I'm having a hard time trying to make a build for it because I can't seem to find a way to use all of my class features, and if I can't use all of my class features with a 20pt. buy then there is something seriously wrong with the class.

Scarab Sages

If he is to fight and cast at the same time, then his spell list is currnetly really problematic and making him look much less appealing than pure cleric.

I currently see the inquisitor as a divine magus so find no need for that niche. A paladin (holy warrior) who isn't bound to LG or CE however is something I want to play. As the class stands I'd probably be better off with figher x/ cleric 4 but to say that divine magus is the only option for a fighter/ cleric hybird is a unfair.

This is my current 20pt stat buy:

Str 18, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 7, Wis 16, Cha 14

I'm using the Dual Talent human alternate class feature (the last thing this class needs is more feets) to get +2 str and +2 wis.

Silver Crusade

hello all, just got back from more play testing the Warpriest, i have found that the people of my game store that i go to( who have been playing table top rpg's for like ever) have brainstormed and came up with this.
if its a fighter clr mix give it the abilities of both, so we have come up with this for it as opposed to what i have posted early on lastnight..
1)keep it at 2/3 bab,give it fighter weapon training to make up for the lac of bonus to hit, also give it armor training (both training only go up to 4)
2) bonus feats at 1,3,6,9,12,15,18
3) give it fighter training at 10th ( like magus)
4) keep it at 6 spell levels
5) give it an aura
6)to give it that "new class feel" give it a divine pool that works off its wisdom (akin to magus)
6b) give it "miracles" that use this pool. you get to customize it to how you feel, we stole shamelessly from magus from some of these,1 channel energy( can be selected multiple times adding and extra d6 per selection)
2 reach spell( like the meta magic feat) adds 1 to existing spell level applied
3 domain
4 divine surge (+ wisdom mod to damage round/level)
5 maneuver mastery
6 divine defense (+wisdom mod to saves round/level)
7 all the meta magic effects magus gets at the level it gets
8 the blessings uses this pool

7)aspect of war, dr10/- freedom of movement and you do not lose "divine pool" points while activating blessings or miracles while this is active
8) skill points uped to 4+ int

this is from 2 days of 6 hours of testing with various situations and we found it gives the newer divine magus feel and balanced attack bonus' with the weapon training mixed with all the buffs they get will make them on-par with most fighters and clerics in different ways

Silver Crusade

I’ll offer some thoughts as a casual gamer; I notice some familiar names from time spent lurking on the boards, but I thought it might not be inappropriate to offer the perspective of someone who obviously has less experience with the game.

I’ll begin with some warnings: I haven’t had a chance to actually play with any of the new classes yet, though I’ve got my fingers crossed about getting this alias into a play-by-post game. Also, like I said, I’m a casual gamer, so I’ll be making egregiously non-optimal choices – please be gentle if you feel you need to comment on it, though I’ll be glad to hear suggestions about how I could get the class to do what I want better, which I suppose might also help pin down what it actually can do, in terms of playtest/design feedback. I haven’t worked out a typical spell selection yet or what to do with equipment at the level I was designing the character for – I’ve just dabbled with skills and feats so far, really.

First off, just some instinctive reactions for some context, spoilered for being a

digression:
the warpriest was the only one of the new classes that jumped out at me. I play spellcasters exclusively, but I also play infrequently enough that I haven’t even tried out the base classes from the APG yet. By way of passing, I couldn’t see the arcanist replacing my beloved wizards, but it might be a sorcerer that I would be willing to play, while the shaman left me cold compared to the witch. I don’t care enough about animal companions to care for the hunter, personally, and likewise I haven’t been moved to try an alchemist, so I can’t speak to the investigator. I’m not sure the skald does what I would want it to do any better than judicious multiclassing and archetypes of bard and barbarian, but I’ll save that for its own thread. I haven’t had a close enough look at the bloodrager to get even a gut feeling for it. For the rest, only the swashbuckler appealed as a thing for some of my more martially-inclined characters to dabble in.

So, what drew me to the warpriest? My first thought it would be something like a paladin for non-LG people, and with more spells, which was icing on the cake for me. I’ve not got around to trying an inquisitor yet because I’ve been spooked by the limited spell selection, since I’m not an experienced player, and something about the fluff just didn’t appeal to me.

When I started toying with the idea of rolling a warpriest up, things took a different turn: I’m a shamelessly huge elf fangirl, but I didn’t feel like working out which blessings would go with which of the Sovyrian pantheon deities, so my character would be a priestess of Calistria, and her focus weapon would be … a whip. This has steadily grown on me, as my first thought was to see how I might make it work, and then how that might colour such a character’s approach to combat in general. I ended up planning to take the Whip Mastery chain from Ultimate Combat, and using Dazzling Display and finesse-y type things to do other things if I couldn’t boost raw damage all that much. I would dearly love to see if I could make two-weapon fighting work. In any case, I’m tempted to try a house-rule that paladins who create a divine bond with a weapon have to bond with their deity’s favoured weapon, based on how curious the warpriest’s abilities have made me.

The upshot of my efforts led me to wonder, admittedly without play experience, if the warpriest could use a bit of a boost, specifically as follows:

Would it be overpowered for warpriests to qualify for feats otherwise reserved for X-level fighters, at least once their BAB reached X?
Would it be too much to let Sacred Weapon come in one-minute increments like Sacred Armour, or else be reorganized to work like paladin smiting or inquisitor judgements, being limited to a smaller number of uses lasting for one encounter?
Would it be alright to let the warpriest draw on spells from the inquisitor list, using the cleric level for spells that appear on both lists?
Could the base allotment of skill points be boosted by a couple? Although I understand that it might be a bit weird to have more skill points than either of the classes that go into the warpriest, it does seem to need to cover more territory.

Some final thoughts: I thought I saw some ideas bandied about in another thread about class names. Could I mention here that I rather like “templar” as an alternative to “warpriest?” Also, as to the question of what it does that judicious multiclassing or the inquisitor can’t do better, I’m not sure that’s quite the idea, and I don’t mind. I’m a novice player, but even I have character ideas floating around in level for martial/divine class combinations, while I think the developers are trying to reduce the necessity for that. I know that if I was getting just absolutely started at Pathfinder I might balk at trying to figure out the right balance of fighter and cleric for my purposes, and there is a certain attraction to having the character work “out of the box,” as it were. I just feel that I’m seeing a rather eerie reiteration of the sorts of discussions that were going on around the release of the magus. Now, I like the magus complete with spellstrike and all, but I’m not sure that at the end of the day what I really want from that sort of character is more than having a fair shot at hitting the broad side of a level-appropriate barn when, for whatever reason, using a spell is undesirable. The inquisitor may do that sort of job for the divine classes, but again, I have fluff issues. Somewhat paradoxically, I find the more explicitly militant warpriest less off-putting, perhaps because it’s less sneakily censorious, compared to a class with a self-righteous, prying "we know better than you" approach with a key ability to pass "judgement" but that nonetheless “roots out enemies of the faith, using trickery and guile” presumably because the direct approach is too difficult. ;)

Sorry for the wall of text. o.O (Blushes.)


Adonara Strixis wrote:
stuff

Fun fact: 'Templar' was a name originally going to be given to a new class in the APG that would supposedly cover the paladin of other alignments niche. The rumor is that it devolved into the Cavalier class that no one talks about.


DM Beckett wrote:


Ordained Champion was a 5 level Cleric Prestige Class that gave a little martial boost (CC).

A bit more than a little boost...but it's more the flavor that it added that made it a good PrC.

Liberty's Edge

Short note : from level 10 onward, The Warpriest with the Madness blessing is the best friend of the Swashbuckler.

Routine goes like that :

- Swashbuckler : I hit the dragon on the head (confused for 1 round, no save)
- Warpriest : the dragon hurts itself
- Dragon : I hurt myself
- Other PCs : we pile on the dragon

Repeat for at least 4 rounds (depending on how much panache the swashbuckler has)


Really even before then they can be helpful though it mainly depends on the Warpriest's Number of Blessings they can do.


Biggest Flaw: Needs full BAB progression.

Pre-Warpriest Class:
I have many times tried to make a viable combat-based "warpriest-type" cleric. Through the casting of various spells the a war-based cleric can get sort of close to the combat capabilities, but this is at the cost of a lot of spell slots. The great hindrance I have found in this style of play, is the cleric BAB progression.

Warpriest Class:
I continue to see this class being significantly outclassed by a martial class. This class already takes a HD hit (which is appropropriate), but it should get the full BAB progression (in my opinion) to make it a more useful martially-focused class. Without doing this, this class really isn't much different than many of the clerics I have already played.. albeit with a few more feats.

Liberty's Edge

Azaelas Fayth wrote:
Really even before then they can be helpful though it mainly depends on the Warpriest's Number of Blessings they can do.

Quite in agreement, though I think the minor Madness blessing should apply to a creature with the confused condition too, as the restriction in actions is a clear benefit.


I built 2 characters each at levels 1, 5, 10, 15, & 20 and looked just at the numbers and such and well... I believe a Cleric(Crusader) can end up being a better Warpriest than the Warpriest.

The Warpriest could surge with power and be on par with a moderate un-optimized Greatsword Fighter while the Crusader was slightly less powerful they could hold that power longer.

Basically the Warpriest seems excellent if the fight ends in a round or two but has little staying power without burning through Resources.

EDIT: I forgot to mention they are both followers of Gorum. The Warpriest has the Destruction and War Blessings while the Crusader only has the War Domain.

NOTE: This is pure theoretical work as my group has given up playtesting these because they either ended up hating the mechanics of the class features or couldn't find another they wanted to actually run. And I will try to format my 2 comparison Characters and post them up for you guys.

Scarab Sages

My review:

Warpriest: B A fighter that loses BAB to gain a medium spell progression, or a cleric that loses spells and turning to gain bonus feats. A 1 level dip in it might be very popular, as it grants two minor blessings + two free feats + spellcasting. I recommend instead granting proficiency for free at 1st level, and weapon focus at 2nd.

Sacred Weapon (and armor) is a nice ability, on par with a paladin's bonded weapon, but it's a swift action, which makes it much better. (Action economy!) It makes up for the loss of BAB in to-hit rolls, though obviously they still fall behind in bonus attacks.

Most of the minor blessings seem pretty weak. Why would a 3rd level Warpriest ever waste a standard action to give an ally +1 to damage rolls? If it was a minor action, maybe it would be too good... so move action? I could see that making more sense. This applies to Air, Artifice, Chaos/Good/Evil/Law, Fire/Water/Earth/Air/Weather, Death, Destruction, War, and all similar abilities. Charm/Glory and Darkness are worth spending standard actions on, and several domains (Strength, Liberation, Healing, Community, Luck) can do it as swift actions already. Many major blessings (such as Earth, Community, Artifice, Sun) need the same treatment - it's just plain terrible for a 10th level spellcaster to waste a standard action giving an ally one point of DR (that doesn't scale up with level), and you can't even do it to yourself.

Repose looks like (RAI) it is supposed to be able to combo with itself to put people to sleep, but the duration on the stagger will be over by the time you can do it a second time.

The Battle Companion abilities should be clarified to one companion out *period*, total, not one per use of the ability. I could see a Warpriest going into a final encounter casting Summon Monster IX 13 times and just overrunning the final fight. 13 Astral Devas = 169d6 damage per round - save for half! - in blade barriers, and 13 Heal spells sitting in your pocket.

Repose, Madness, Luck, Liberation, Magic, Plant (if Name(minor) does actually root them in place) are really good.

Protection is weak - it is terrible in combat to waste a standard action to boost your resistance or armor bonus to where it should be anyway. Both abilities should be swift or move actions.

Overall, I'm sort of indecisive about it. A straight class Cleric (or Cleric with a dip in fighter or barbarian) just seems to be the better option for all builds I can think of. While there *should* be something neat I could make out of the blessing mechanic, other than summoning 13 Astral Devas (which shouldn't be allowed), I'm coming up blank. Most of them just duplicate domain powers anyway, and the extra feats just aren't worth losing spellcasting over.

I mean, this is kind of ironic since I always complain about how feat-starved clerics are when I build a battle cleric, but I really would generally prefer to have the ability to cast high level spells over some extra fighter feats.


DM Beckett wrote:

They are two different classes. Divine Champion (CD) was a Fighter Prestige Class that gave you 9th level spellcasting in 10 levels but only for Domains.

Ordained Champion was a 5 level Cleric Prestige Class that gave a little martial boost (CC).

divine crusader actually (I think someone mentioned it upthread). I was having a disconnect until you described it. thanks. actually I would love to see the ordained champion in particular integrated into this, it's kinda got perfect class abilities for this.


Robert Little wrote:
The blessings are mechanically fine to me, but because they are tied to domains, some of them end up being goofy choices for the warpriest, depending on their deity. Abadar has access to several minor blessings that bolster melee attacks, even though his favored weapon is ranged. Erastil has access to animal fury which makes an ally feral, even though he is mostly about domestication. I think I'd almost rather see blessings completely disconnected from domains and make them more like mysteries (where there are suggested deities, but not a requirement).

I agree, there are some other in there, Air comes to mind, that don't seem to jive well with the deity's favored weapon.

The Exchange

My favorite is the Charm blessing, which is just hilarious in the sort of emergent gameplay it could produce.

"I give the Rogue the minor Charm blessing so he can sneak attack the BBEG all day every day without having to worry about the BBEG's minions!"

"Uh, guys, a little help here?"

"No can do boss, that guy who's stabbing you in the back is really dreamy, we'd rather beat up this other guy."

I guess that's one way to tank.

The Exchange

What I would like to see from the warpriest:

Aura Class Feature

Better blessings (Domains absolutely put these to shame currently. In addition most are far to specific, for example remove melee weapon requirements)

Scrap Channel all together.

Fighter level -4 for fighter feats

Removal of day long restriction on what you can use your sacred weapon/armor for. Chose what buff you want per combat, not per day.

Ammended list of sacred weapon buffs for people that want to use it with a bow or crossbow.

Use the cleric and inquisitor spell list (or class specific spell list) for spells. This allows a more diverse array of buffs and some more powerful effects like other 6/9 casters have.

That is all.

Shadow Lodge

In the forum for the Brawler they are stated to count as a monk and a fighter for the purposes of feats, as mentioned before, I am CERTAIN that since it isn't listed as a specific class ability, it is intended to be that way for ALL of these classes. So they are fighter of equal level, not -4.


Has a Dev commented on the problem of the lack of Animal choices on the SNA8/9 lists?

It matters for Animal/Plant Blessings at the very least.


My current suggestion list:
- Attack as though full BAB with favored weapon.
- Feat or other trait that allows a second favored weapon, for those who want to be double melee/ranged threats or who worship liberal arts major deities.
- Unified pool of points for sacred weapon, sacred armor, and channeling. It just makes sense. And what about the ability to gain an option to burn points to gain access to clerical domain powers?
- Channeling for fun and profit: this is a WAR PRIEST, right? How about some feats or other options that help turn this character into someone who uses their channeling ability for various offensive powers and self-buffs. Explosive channel, holy smiting channel, temporary combat feat channel, etc.
- Feed me some rounds: sacred weapon should be 1 minute per point spent, not rounds per day.
- Count as fighter for feat prerequisites. This doesn't create any mechanical problems I can foresee, and they already have less feats to play with. I don't think fighter will mind.


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I think it should get some swift or even free action buffs. Why am I not going to play an inquisitor instead, even if I am thinking of combat first?


Yeah, throw some swift self spells in as one of the channeling options.


I think people get the point of why play a warpriest when an inquisitor does the same, better.
Let's move on.


RJGrady wrote:
Yeah, throw some swift self spells in as one of the channeling options.

Sounds dangerously like divine metamagic.

Not that I mind. Being restricted to a more limited caster class, and there not being as good metamagic options as in 3.5 probably de fangs it a bit.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kryzbyn wrote:

I think people get the point of why play a warpriest when an inquisitor does the same, better.

Let's move on.

I'd love to, but I really need to hear a developer comment about what place they are envisioning the Warpriest to occupy, when compared to the already existing Inquisitor (and Cleric and Paladin). I think this question has to be answered to help us understand what their purpose with the class is. So far, most people just seem confused why we even need it, with three other classes already occupying the space it is supposed to fill.

The devs already made the decision to work over the Arcanist when people pointed out its shortcomings in the "where does it stand?" department, so I hope they will at least give us a good idea what their intent with the Warpriest is.


I posted is in the Warpriest Niche Thread, but figured I should put it here too.

I was also thinking something along the lines of a personal range spell cast as part of a charge. When I played my Battle cleric last campaign, I hated having to sit back a turn or two and buff up rather than charge into the fray. This would give them great flavor as being on the Frontlines for their deity, a rallying point for their forces.

I feel like either what a lot of people really want in the Warpriest is a Paladin/Cleric Hybrid, or that is what they're seeing. The Armor and Weapon bonds to me clearly feel Paladiny, but it loses the auras, smite and defenses that really make a Paladin. I really just don't see a whole lot of Fighter here besides Bonus Feats.

It comes off feeling like a Cleric/(Fighter/Paladin).

I think they need less Cleric, and more of whatever they were going for on the other end of the spectrum. I'm personally a fan of dropping or lowering the Spell casting and giving auras or other buffs.

Maybe the way you differentiate it is to go the route of 4 Levels of Spontaneous casting. You give it a little more spell casting ability than the Paladin, but differentiate it from the Inquisitor a bit.


magnuskn wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:

I think people get the point of why play a warpriest when an inquisitor does the same, better.

Let's move on.
I'd love to, but I really need to hear a developer comment about what place they are envisioning the Warpriest to occupy, when compared to the already existing Inquisitor (and Cleric and Paladin). I think this question has to be answered to help us understand what their purpose with the class is. So far, most people just seem confused why we even need it, with three other classes already occupying the space it is supposed to fill.

You don't need to know that to playtest the mechanics of the class.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kryzbyn wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:

I think people get the point of why play a warpriest when an inquisitor does the same, better.

Let's move on.
I'd love to, but I really need to hear a developer comment about what place they are envisioning the Warpriest to occupy, when compared to the already existing Inquisitor (and Cleric and Paladin). I think this question has to be answered to help us understand what their purpose with the class is. So far, most people just seem confused why we even need it, with three other classes already occupying the space it is supposed to fill.

You don't need to know that to playtest the mechanics of the class.

I think we need to know that to give useful feedback if the mechanics of the class work as to the direction the developers want the class to go in.

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