It's also kind of sad that you can't use it if you knew that you were going to fight a green dragon and rolled Knowledge:arcana in advance.Ideally you would roll it again at the start of a fight I would think. Knowledge checks can be a little weird. At least it doesn't devour a few actions.
Yeah, but I know that I don't run knowledge to identify a creature that way.
My party is fighting a black dragon at the moment. They got into one fight with it, and because they messed up they got beat up pretty bad. Two of them died, two went into the negatives, and the remaining half only survived becaue they did some exceptional groveling.
After licking their wounds and reruiting some new party members, they came upn it again, and after a few rounds the dragon flew away as it was unsure of the outcome.
We're awaiting the third try.
At any rate, the reason this is relevant, because when they realised they were going to fight the dragon, a player asked "What do I know about dragons? Is it important that it is black?"
I made him roll knowledge arcana, and gave him information. But in this case, I wouldn't have let him roll at the start of any of the encounter. He had already found out what he knew, and the next few encounters wouldn't change that, beyond what he could observe it doing.
So making it based on checks to identify an opponent kind of makes it weaker than if you just let them roll a seperate knowledge check, a la knowledge devotion of 3.5.
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The warpriest is a hybrid class and should be created as such; war = fighting and priest = healing. The class should be able to do both effectively without outpacing their parent class. It's the same formula used in WoW, which we know our friends at Pazio play. Look at the the WoW shaman; it can heal, do ranged dps or melee dps, but by no means can it do more dps than say hunter or rogue, they class isn't built that way and shouldn't be.
A hybrid class gives an alternative to playing the parent classes for those that are looking for something different. I don't want a warpriest to do more damage than a fighter, nor do I want it to outheal a cleric, but if my group is lacking one of these two classes, then this is where the warpriest would fit in.
Personally I would try to understand the flavor of the class first, then I would worry about mechanics. What's the point of getting mired in mechanics that may or may not be there? Playtest the class, send feed back, and then move on to another class. Some of you are taking the fun out of the playtest and missing the point entirely.
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"I need three good stats and 1 piddling one, and one that's at least 10. This class is too MAD, and no one will play it."
That's basically the vibe I'm getting here.
Most other classes have only one or two stats that are of particular importance to them. For clerics, it is both their WIS and their CHA. Paladins in Pathfinder, unlike failadins in 3.5e, don't need to run their WIS up as they once did. They're good on just STR and CHA to get the job done. The warpriest, meanwhile, needs martial stats, a good wisdom score and will need a decent CHA if you have any intention at all of making its channel work as more than a heal.
Clerics can also have this weakness if you want to build one that is more martially inclined, obviously.
This is what happens with hybrids classes; you are taking on two roles (fighter and priest) so you need the stats to correlate in order to be effective. "Pure" classes don't have this problem.
I played a 6th level WarPriest tonight and it made me pretty sad. I was looking foreword to this class.
First off this class need a full BAB anything less just has it trail to far behind the other classes. Everything that was fought in this scenario was killed in two or three rounds. I played with two druids, a wizard and a paladin. All these classes have a far higher damage output then i could muster. I have a level 12 cleric and i had enough spells or heals to feel left behind but the warpriest just trailed behind everyone.
I like the blesses but they just seem to be weaker domains that require a standard to use so i lose a round to deal an extra d6 the next, while the druids have both themselves and their pets beating on the mob, The paladin gets to swing twice on it. If its is around more then 3 rounds (which its not) the action cost would break even.
Swing 1d6 plus 4 str or used action to get 1d6 plus 4 plus 1d6
round one round two round three round four total
avg 4+4= 8 4+4= 8 4+4= 8 4+4= 8 32
avg bless 4+4+4= 12 4+4+4= 12 4+4+4= 12 36That is not including weapon bond or misses but it still shows that the bless only starts to gain after 4 rounds and it doesn't stack with the similar type in enchant.
If bless granted a passive ability like say if you crit and you had the healing bless you could heal everyone back a d6. Maybe if you were a Warpriest of Serenrae and you scored a crit you could burn a use of your channel to add 4d6 fire damage. If your a WarPriest with the war bless you could burn a channel to get an extra attack. I can see the blesses can really add some flavor to the class based on their deity, the idea is great but they could be so much better. What if the blesses where more like bloodlines and not domains, you only get one but they give you a lot of specialization into the role that fits to the deity.
Also the class is very stat heavy so you cant use stats to make up for...
I think the blessings offering passive features and new ways to channel has some merit. I like the idea of a warpriest of serenrae (Or any fire blessing) being able to channel fire on a crit.
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I understand the developer doesn't want to give the class too much, because why would anyone want to play the base classes then . Maybe the blesses need to go away and have it work similar to the cavalier. Have the war priest have devotions. Choose battle, support, or protection.
Battle devotion can use their pool to gain an extra attack or align their weapon. They are the front line cleric.
Support devotion can use its pool to buff like a bard for the round or gain some bonuses to his channel. These are the combat healers
Protection devotion gains bonuses to ac and can spend points to take damage from a different character or they can bump ac or the whole party for a round. They can spend a point and give energy resist 5 till the end of the round. These are the party savers.
The spell list is nice but you could still cut it down for balance, it could gain just as many spells as a bard and still be functional. This class is not a caster, the inquisitor fills that role better.
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A side note: Warpriest is a combination of Fighter and Cleric. Clerics aren't "healers": They're support-themed spellcasters who can be built to fit a number of roles, including combat builds and even spell strikers (though that's heavily feat and domain dependant).
In that sense, the Warpriest should be more offensively oriented that the cleric, with SOME (but not great) spellcasting, not necessarily healing.
I wanted to play this class until I read of their BAB. You cant be effective in combat with a mediocre BAB. If you are a first rate spell caster you can stand back and work your magic. Rogue sucks because it does neither well. This class will suck if it cant decide to do either well.
There are ways to make a full BAB priest different from Paladins and Rangers. There are already archetypes (Crusader) to make standard cleric better than this class at what it currently tries to do.Please just give it full BAB. No mount, no smite, no lay on hands. Give me a Warpriest who can fight well enough to deserve the name or dont bother.
I agree that the crusader is better than this class as it stands, but I think you are wrong to say that 3/4 BAB characters can't be melee useful. Look at the magus. Look at the ninja (with its invisibility and shit). Look at a properly built inquisitor (though that is only for judgement rounds).
I understand the developer doesn't want to give the class too much, because why would anyone want to play the base classes then . Maybe the blesses need to go away and have it work similar to the cavalier. Have the war priest have devotions. Choose battle, support, or protection.
Battle devotion can use their pool to gain an extra attack or align their weapon. They are the front line cleric.
Support devotion can use its pool to buff like a bard for the round or gain some bonuses to his channel. These are the combat healers
Protection devotion gains bonuses to ac and can spend points to take damage from a different character or they can bump ac or the whole party for a round. They can spend a point and give energy resist 5 till the end of the round. These are the party savers.
The spell list is nice but you could still cut it down for balance, it could gain just as many spells as a bard and still be functional. This class is not a caster, the inquisitor fills that role better.
They are saying no new spell lists. Maybe the inquisitor spell list plus some domains would work as a compromise, though? Or give them the inquisitor spell list and let them choose to ready one general cleric spell every day.
I like having the full cleric spell list, but I also think this class needs to be more fully focused on combat ability.
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This is what happens with hybrids classes; you are taking on two roles (fighter and priest) so you need the stats to correlate in order to be effective. "Pure" classes don't have this problem.
Excellent point.
I think that we have to look at this class as being intended to be a fighting class that is also a caster, rather than a caster class who can fight since the Cleric, unlike the full arcane classes, is a a caster that can also fight.
The Magus is a caster who can wade into Melee. It's primary feature is the ability to cast while in melee, but you won't frontline with a Magus as a first choice.
The Inquisitor is closer to the ranger than the fighter, IMHO. You can wade in, but you don't have the armor to do it for long so you are better off letting someone else take the brunt.
This class has the Armor. It actually has more armor than other classes when you get down to it. It can wade in.
But what is it doing when it gets there?
I think it is the wrong approach to try and put the fix into allowing faster buffing. That is looking at this as a caster class that fights, and you can say over and over it isn't, but if you quicken a spell that is a metamagic effect, no matter how you reskin it.
As SKR pointed out in another thread, spell combat is basically quickened spells by a different mechanic.
When you put the focus on the spells, you are basically trying to have a 6 level casting class compete with a 9 level casting class.
The inquisitor isn't going to out cast the cleric or oracle. The trade off is that the inquisitor has other things it can do other than cast with it's action economy that are really good. It doesn't need to cast a spell each round, because judgements and bane are good options.
Right now the Warpriest is very good at armored defense and a good option as a healer if you don't want to play a cleric...but when it wades in it isn't very different than a cleric wading it.
Sure it can buff as a swift action a bit, but I think the consensus is that what it can buff isn't as good as what would be expected from the role.
If you allow it to buff faster, you create the problem of adding quickened spells without adjustment to a specific spell list, which you then have to go through and pick which you can and can't.
If we can agree that this is a class that is intended to wade into combat, which I think it is, this needs to be a class that will do things when it gets there, buffed or unbuffed.
The concern the Devs probably have, and fairly, is that if you give to much then you have buffs on top of buffs.
But I would point to the Inquisitors level of buffs and ask "Has this been a problem?"
In practice, an Inquisitor can prebuff, open a judgement for the combat and then bane. From what I've seen this makes them good, but not overpowered given that you can't always prebuff, and even when you do you are still a 3/4 BaB class with d8 hit points.
From what I am looking at, I like the idea of the Warpriest, but I think it lags behind the Inquisitor at a similar function when it should be ahead of the inquisitor at that function.
This "No new spell lists" direction really hurts the War priest. As Ive previously stated they could be so simple and effective with full BAB and a great 4level spell list.
As this cannot be... I guess a complex sliding scale of layered buffs building and building upon each other over the passing rounds while our war priest stands absurdly gesticulating amidst the melee... is what we get.
Thats a pass for me. Another flavor of supporting buff juggler. Meh.
But we already have that class..... Complete with his own spell list and unique combat buffs.
The warpriest is a hybrid class and should be created as such; war = fighting and priest = healing. The class should be able to do both effectively without outpacing their parent class. It's the same formula used in WoW, which we know our friends at Pazio play. Look at the the WoW shaman; it can heal, do ranged dps or melee dps, but by no means can it do more dps than say hunter or rogue, they class isn't built that way and shouldn't be.
Actually, in WoW its about your spec and gear. Shaman ranks third on Noxxic here. Its actually ranked 2nd if your using best in slot gear. Its cool that your shaman can buff and heal, but if your specced to damage your going to do damage and not do so much healing. Here druid ranks 2nd and frosty is top deeps. If your raiding and your enhance shaman is resorting to casting heals your in deep trouble probably!
MMOs don't translate to Tabletop very well sometimes. Even from tabletop to tabletop you can follow entirely different design philosophies.
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I've charted out a revision to the class that has no dead levels, keeps 3/4 BAB, HD, six levels of casting, and the saving throws, cuts a lot of the volume out of the first level dip, restores some of the fighter feel that is missing, and has no dead levels.
Flavor Stuff
While some are born to greatness, others must work for it. Warpriests work to earn favor from their deity to grant them blessings in battle. By diligent training of both body and spirit, a Warpriest attunes herself to her god and becomes their weapon in combat. A frequent title of a Warpriest would be the name of their weapon followed by the name of their god, for example, Hammer of Torag or Scimitar of Saranrae. Those that favor a concept may retain similar titles, such as Spear of Justice or Dagger of Lies.
Blessings
At first level, second level, and every three levels thereafter, a Warpriest must choose a blessing from among the Blessing Domains offered by her god. She must meet and maintain the requirements from that Blessing Domain. If she violates that blessing domain's tenets, if any, she loses abilities selected from that list until she makes atonement.
At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, you may retrain blessings as a fighter retrains feats.
Channel Energy
Mostly as written, except this starts at 1st level and progresses every 3 levels thereafter.
If you lose any blessings or your ability to prepare spells, you lose the ability to channel energy until atoned.
Favoured Weapon
At first level, a Warpriest is proficient with her deity's favoured weapon if she isn't already. She may use this type of weapon (and only this weapon) as a divine focus for her spells. In addition, she gets a +1 bonus on attack rolls with that weapon. If she doesn't revere a deity, she chooses a simple weapon to receive this bonus (including the ability to use it as a divine focus).
At 5th level and every four levels thereafter, a Warpriest may choose to favour an additional weapon she is proficient with and gets a +1 bonus on attack rolls with that weapon. At these levels, the bonus to her previously selected weapons and her god's favored weapon increase by 1. (To a maximum of +5 with her diety's favoured weapon at 17th level.)
A Warpriest may use a hand holding one of her favored weapons to provide somatic components for the spells she casts. If she is holding one of those weapons while casting a harmless spell that targets herself, she treats her caster level as 1 higher for all of that spell's level dependent effects, even if she is not the only target.
She loses these bonuses when she loses any blessing, but they return upon atonement.
Spells/Spontaneous Casting
As written, but including a line about being unable to prepare spells when not with in one step of your god's alignment. Losing Blessings does not cause you to be unable to prepare spells.
I would suggest having it be charisma based.
Bonus Feats
At 2nd level, 3rd level, and every three levels thereafter, a Warpriest gains bonus feats. These feats must be chosen from among those listed as combat feats or those that require Channel Energy as a prerequisite. She must meet the prerequisites for those feats.
At 6th, 12th, and 18th level, a Warpriest may retrain one of those feats, so long as they aren't used for prerequisites for other feats or prestige class requirements.
Unlike other class features, these feats aren't lost with spells or blessings unless they require one of those features as a prerequisite.
Glory Pool
Beginning at 4th level, a Warpriest gains a pool of divine energy she can use to enhance her prowess on the field of battle. When the Warpriest prepares spells, she gains a number of Glory points equal to her Charisma modifier (if positive) plus half her Warpriest level to her Glory pool.
As a swift action, a Warpriest may expend a Glory point to give a +1 sacred or profane bonus to all weapon attack and damage rolls made with her favored weapons for one round. Treat damage dealt this round by those weapons as magic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. Sacred if she channels Positive energy, Profane if she channels negative energy.
As an immediate action, a Warpriest may expend a Glory point to give a +1 sacred or profane bonus to her Armor bonus until the start of her next turn. She may use this attack after an attack has been declared, but before the roll has been made and she must be wearing Armor to gain its benefit.
Some blessings may add additional abilities to your weapons or armor when this is ability used or add additional uses for Glory points. If any of those blessings are lost or if she loses the ability to prepare spells, she can no longer renew her Glory pool.
Martial Perfection
At 20th level, you become a direct conduit of your deity in battle. Any allies within 30 feet that share your faith gain the benefit of any blessing you have active on yourself. You may channel energy as a swift action. You gain DR 10/- as long as you're wearing armor and you can conjure force versions your deity's favored weapons that last for one minute. Treat the critical hit multiplier of your god's favoured weapon as one higher and they aways confirm. (x2 becomes x3.)
Sample Blessing Domains
Not all blessing domains will have the same number of blessings available. Big domains with lots of gods, like the alignment domains, protection, charm and knowledge, could get up to five to choose from while something like liberation or repose will only get three to choose from. A warpriest can choose from any list in her deity's portfolio, not just limited to two as a cleric. Those who don't worship a god cannot select from domain blessings that have contrary requirements (such as good and evil).
Generally speaking, requirements or limitations imposed by the domain blessing list shouldn't cause conflict within a god's portfolio. I could imagine some of the neutral god's like Pharasma or Gorum may have some conflict to their lists. In those cases, the warpriest should not select blessings from a list that violate tenets of another. (For example, if a death domain blessing allows the raising of a dead servant, while the repose domain precludes such actions.)
If they mention a saving throw, it would be 10 + 1/2 Warpiest level + Charisma modifier.
Here's some samples.
Glory Blessings
Deities: Gorum, Iomedae, Saranrae
Tenets: Warpriests with any of these abilities may not retreat from battle or fair challenges that have been made against them.
Glorious Presence (Su): As written.
Never Run (Su): Warpriests with this blessing get a +2 bonus on saving throws against fear effects. This bonus increases by 1 for each other Glory blessing maintained. If under a fear effect that would cause you to flee, you flee only at half speed and may still cast spells that remove, reduce, or suppress the condition.
Demoralizing Glory (Su): As written, except you may use your level plus your charisma modifier instead of your skill if untrained and this ability stacks with itself if you expend Glory points upon a successful roll. You must be at least 8th level to select this blessing.
Mighty Prowess (Ex): One per day, you may expend a Glory point to add your Charisma bonus to your armor class and saving throws for one minute. Add half your Warpriest level to damage rolls made with a favored weapon for that minute. You must be at least 11th level to select this blessing.
Repose Blessings
Deity: Pharasma
Tenets: You may not engage in the creation or maintenance of undead. When you channel energy to harm undead, increase the save DC by 1 for each of the following Blessings you possess.
Consecrated Knives (Su): Your favored weapons overcome all DR of creatures with the undead type. At 5th level, you may expend a glory point to gain the ghost touch weapon property on those weapons. At 8th level, you may expend a Glory point to give your favored weapons the Disruptive weapon property with a DC equal to 10+ 1/2 your warpriest level + your charisma modifier.
Gentle Rest (Su): As written, except use Charisma instead of Wisdom.
Back to the Grave (Su): As written, except you may only select this Tenant at 8th level.
Good Blessings
Deities: Cayden Cailean, Desna, Erastil, Iomedae, Sarenrae, Shelyn, Torag.
Tenets: You must maintain a good alignment. You have a good aura as the Cleric ability if you maintain any of these blessings.
Evil's Bane (Su): Whenever you strike an evil creature with a favored weapon, that creature must make a Will save. If it fails, that creature becomes blind and staggered for a number of rounds equal to your warpriest level. Once affected or if it successfully saves, a creature is immune to this ability for 24 hours.
Touch of Good (Su): As a standard action, you may touch an ally other than yourself to give it a sacred bonus equal to 1/2 your warpriest level on attack rolls, saving throws, and skill checks for one minute. You cannot use this ability while it is active on another creature and can use it only a number of times per day as your charisma modifier.
Holy Strikes (Su): When you expend a Glory point to give bonuses to your favored weapons, those weapons are treated as good aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. You may expend an additional glory point to make those weapons Merciful. At 8th level, you may instead spend two glory points to give those weapons the Holy property for that round. You must have a Glory pool to select this blessing.
Sacred Armor: As a standard action, you may expend a Glory point to give yourself DR 5/Evil for one minute. At 16th level this improves to DR 10/Evil. You must be wearing armor to use this ability and you must be at least 8th level to select it.
Battle Companion (Su): As written, except you can't select it until 11th level and starts at Summon V. It still progresses every 2 levels thereafter, to a maximum of IX at 19th.
Those are a few examples. I think one of the fire blessings should allow for channeling damage as a Fire blast to affect either living or dead. Liberation should have no more than three abilities, but one should grant full movement speed in heavy armor. Sun should allow you to cast light spells at one level higher. I have lots of other ideas, but don't really have the time to type them up now.
Problems solved:
The To Hit issue (scaling favoured weapon bonus). The favoured weapon issue levels (solved at 5th and later). The MAD issue (if the spells suggestion is applied, it becomes a physical and charisma based class.) The ability to cast spells. The flavor issue of not feeling enough like a different class from the cleric or inquisitor (You have to WORK for it like the Fighter). The problem of not having a direct indicator of which features stop functioning on a fall. The large volume of resource tracking (Spells, Channels, and Glory pool are it. Individual blessings may change that, but aren't necessary to select.) The HUGE first level is distributed largely over the rest of the levels, so you'd need to get to level two to get your bonus feat and you don't ACTUALLY get Weapon focus, although you get something very similar.
I'm pretty sure this will get lost in the noise. I hope it doesn't. I spent quite a bit of time on it, but I'm willing to spend lots more. I won't please everybody, but I think it makes a fair compromise.
I've charted out a revision to the class that has no dead levels, keeps 3/4 BAB, HD, six levels of casting, and the saving throws, cuts a lot of the volume out of the first level dip, restores some of the fighter feel that is missing, and has no dead levels.
Flavor Stuff
** spoiler omitted **Blessings
** spoiler omitted **Channel Energy
** spoiler omitted **Favoured Weapon
** spoiler omitted **...
I think your favored weapon fix sounds really good.
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So here are my 2 cents on the Warpriest. I had wanted to build a shaman for our sunday game, but one person in our group went apeshizzle about the class and it basically got canned. So, we are playing a new campaign and I am playing a Warpriest of Gorum. CN Ulfen female. Using favorite weapon (Greatsword).
I put my points into Wisdom and STR mostly. I am using a 20 pt buy. Wisdom for more spells and STR for dmg. Currently, we are going to start at level 5 so I can actually build a Warpriest with a little meat on it.
Some of the feats I have picked: Weapon Focus, Improved Initative, Iron Will, Lightining Reflexes plus one I need to ask about here. Since the Warpriest is a Warrior and a Priest can we not use the Feats that require a Warrior like Weapon Specialization? It seems only right we should be able to use feats like those since this class is part warrior. If we ever get a ruling on this I would take WS, but currently it's up in the air in our game.
For my Warpriest blessings I took Strength and one other Gorum "blessings" I am not in front of my notebook at the moment so I forget the other one. It was basically an ally buff.
My biggest concern for the warpriest is being able to dip into fighter only feats and It would be decent to get d10 Hit Dice, but I can live with it being d8's.
One other concern I have is casting spells while wearing heavy armor. Going to be taking a slight hit when casting (arcane failure) unless we get something that can overcome that problem. Did I miss something that I could take to lessen that issue?
Will be playing this on Sunday and will post my thoughts next tuesday when I will have more time to get online.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, Contributor
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I've charted out a revision to the class that has no dead levels, keeps 3/4 BAB, HD, six levels of casting, and the saving throws, cuts a lot of the volume out of the first level dip, restores some of the fighter feel that is missing, and has no dead levels.
Flavor Stuff
** spoiler omitted **Blessings
** spoiler omitted **Channel Energy
** spoiler omitted **Favoured Weapon
** spoiler omitted **...
Great work on this. I like how your interpretation of Blessings allows the warpriest to represent the whole portfolio. Differentiates from the cleric in an interesting way.
Divine spells do not suffer from arcane spell failure chances. That's why it's called that.
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So here are my 2 cents on the Warpriest. I had wanted to build a shaman for our sunday game, but one person in our group went apeshizzle about the class and it basically got canned. So, we are playing a new campaign and I am playing a Warpriest of Gorum. CN Ulfen female. Using favorite weapon (Greatsword).
I put my points into Wisdom and STR mostly. I am using a 20 pt buy. Wisdom for more spells and STR for dmg. Currently, we are going to start at level 5 so I can actually build a Warpriest with a little meat on it.
Some of the feats I have picked: Weapon Focus, Improved Initative, Iron Will, Lightining Reflexes plus one I need to ask about here. Since the Warpriest is a Warrior and a Priest can we not use the Feats that require a Warrior like Weapon Specialization? It seems only right we should be able to use feats like those since this class is part warrior. If we ever get a ruling on this I would take WS, but currently it's up in the air in our game.
For my Warpriest blessings I took Strength and one other Gorum "blessings" I am not in front of my notebook at the moment so I forget the other one. It was basically an ally buff.
My biggest concern for the warpriest is being able to dip into fighter only feats and It would be decent to get d10 Hit Dice, but I can live with it being d8's.
One other concern I have is casting spells while wearing heavy armor. Going to be taking a slight hit when casting (arcane failure) unless we get something that can overcome that problem. Did I miss something that I could take to lessen that issue?
Will be playing this on Sunday and will post my thoughts next tuesday when I will have more time to get online.
Divine spells don't suffer from spell failure. Official consensus on taking fighter-only feats at this point is "Probably, because Brawler can, but we're not sure in this case". I'd say "Yes", but that's just me.
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Furthermore, First I'd like to say, wow! I really really like what you've done with that. I'd suggest toning down Favored Weapons to possibly increasing every 6 levels, so it isn't obviously better than a Fighter's Weapon Training. With buffs worked in as well the class also might be a bit too powerful, but it is a most definitely good start!
In our game the Rogue just could not hit. He eventually became frustrated and wanted to make a new character. I made a point of flanking enemies with my Fighter in every encounter to give him a chance but he would just miss. He seldom got to apply his Sneak Attack. We have suggested a few archetypes but he seems demoralized. We have since moved on to a different campaign in which he plays a Cavalier. Now he hits.
This is a problem I've noticed with the rogues in the game I GM. So created a house rule that adds Sneak Attack Precision that give +1 to hit on sneak attacks at level 3, 7, 11, 15, and 19 for total of +5. Fixes the the problem quite well.
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From today's Paizo Blog:
"Finally we get to the warpriest. We are looking at strengthening the role of this class by taking it a bit away from the cleric's position. While we want the class to be among the best at healing and casting spells on itself and we are investigating a mechanic to let it do just that (probably in place of channel energy). We are also looking into a new class feature that allows the warpriest to be an effective combatant with the favored weapon of its deity, regardless of what weapon is favored by their deity. Look for increased damage and additional effects depending on the type of weapon and its role in the game."
It's the same formula used in WoW, which we know our friends at Pazio play. Look at the the WoW shaman; it can heal, do ranged dps or melee dps, but by no means can it do more dps than say hunter or rogue, they class isn't built that way and shouldn't be.
As an aside, I was the DPS shaman (elemental) in my guild, and I out DPS'd hunters and rogues by a lot. And it's easy to do so.
I understand your point, though, but I'm not sure if that's the best example :)
Furthermore, First I'd like to say, wow! I really really like what you've done with that. I'd suggest toning down Favored Weapons to possibly increasing every 6 levels, so it isn't obviously better than a Fighter's Weapon Training. With buffs worked in as well the class also might be a bit too powerful, but it is a most definitely good start!
I would say it isn't strictly better as it doesn't apply to damage rolls the way the Fighter ability does and you pick a single weapon as opposed to a whole group of them. Also, if you're using a Greatsword when your favoured weapon aught to be Light Crossbow, you're going to be 1 behind a fighter on BAB alone. All the ability does is match BAB at the levels whre BAB does not increase. You don't get the benefits of extra attacks with BAB progression that a fighter does at the same time. When you cast Divine Power, now you have the same approximate stats and damage output as a fighter, but it cost you a standard action and you can't do that until 10th level.
Granted, the Glory pool does throw a wrench in to the works for a few rounds per day. It doesn't scale currently, but it does allow for the use of other abilities. I took the scaling from that ability and moved it into the Favoured Weapon.I'm not entirely happy with the Glory pool. It does much of what I wanted; giving bonuses no matter what your weapons abilities are, be they thrown, double, or light rather than just favoring one handed weapons. I'd prefer to drop the ability entirely actually, but it is quite handy for providing a resource for blessings that should have limited uses in a day.
For those that have suggested giving the warpriest the inquisitor's spell list, I think this is a bad idea. Thier spells are tailored for their job, way too tailored for use by another class, imho.
From today's Paizo Blog:
We are also looking into a new class feature that allows the warpriest to be an effective combatant with the favored weapon of its deity, regardless of what weapon is favored by their deity. Look for increased damage and additional effects depending on the type of weapon and its role in the game."
Iceberg! Iceberg!
Ah, well. At least options are being looked at to buff up their melee role.
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I liked the idea of 6 levels of spells.
I hope that doesn't change...
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What if it's not a channel per se, but a static 10 or 15' radius aura?
They activate it so many times/day and it lasts rnds/level, but it effects him and allies like an aid, and foes like a bane or whatever the opposite is. Its aoe, so no save, remove yourself from the aura to negate. That too much? Maybe a will save every round to not be effected?
Have some mercy-like effects along with it?
Maybe instead of harping on the favored weapon ;) we expand the aura feature of the cleric forthe warpriest. Make it a visible tangible thing, where it's light for a good cleric, dark for an evil one.
"Sadly, my Brothers' attempts at parlay have been ignored. That option has passed, now you will face Iomedae's Wrath."
<aura> FOOM! <aura>
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What if it's not a channel per se, but a static 10 or 15' radius aura?
They activate it so many times/day and it lasts rnds/level, but it effects him and allies like an aid, and foes like a bane or whatever the opposite is. Its aoe, so no save, remove yourself from the aura to negate. That too much?
I think that would be to much.
If you make it a swift rather than standard, that is a big bump. In my mind it makes up for the d8 gap when they are in the trenches. They can still combat heal with regular heal spells, and maybe having something that lets them combat cast heals without AoO makes sense.
Now we are carving out a real niche for this class.
I edited a bunch, sorry...
:)
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I like the Channel Ability with the bonus feats. There are tons of channel energy feats that I've always found tough to fit in with only 10 feats when one plays a Cleric or Paladin.
So on surface I found this class lacking till I built a character and that's when I found I could do nice channeling abilities that the Cleric could. Only problem was the class is too MAD. You want a good Str for combat, good Dex for defense, good Con for survivability, good Wis for spells and good Chr for Channeling.
For this class to work I think it just needs a few tweaks.
1) More skill points. Int is the only dump stat. It's not going to more that 10. I thin 4+Int makes more sense.
2) Access to fighter feats. I think War Priest Level -3 would work best. I think it should be better than the Magus in this aspect.
3) Sacred Weapon applies to any weapon the War Priest is proficient with. Focus Weapon can be the deity's favored weapon. It's just free weapon focus and you can decide to not use it with little impact to a build.
+1
I'm glad to see they're doing something to adress the favored weapon issue.
From today's Paizo Blog:
"Finally we get to the warpriest. We are looking at strengthening the role of this class by taking it a bit away from the cleric's position. While we want the class to be among the best at healing and casting spells on itself and we are investigating a mechanic to let it do just that (probably in place of channel energy). We are also looking into a new class feature that allows the warpriest to be an effective combatant with the favored weapon of its deity, regardless of what weapon is favored by their deity. Look for increased damage and additional effects depending on the type of weapon and its role in the game."
+1
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I understand the developer doesn't want to give the class too much, because why would anyone want to play the base classes then . Maybe the blesses need to go away and have it work similar to the cavalier. Have the war priest have devotions. Choose battle, support, or protection.
Battle devotion can use their pool to gain an extra attack or align their weapon. They are the front line cleric.
Support devotion can use its pool to buff like a bard for the round or gain some bonuses to his channel. These are the combat healers
Protection devotion gains bonuses to ac and can spend points to take damage from a different character or they can bump ac or the whole party for a round. They can spend a point and give energy resist 5 till the end of the round. These are the party savers.
The spell list is nice but you could still cut it down for balance, it could gain just as many spells as a bard and still be functional. This class is not a caster, the inquisitor fills that role better.
They are saying no new spell lists. Maybe the inquisitor spell list plus some domains would work as a compromise, though? Or give them the inquisitor spell list and let them choose to ready one general cleric spell every day.
I like having the full cleric spell list, but I also think this class needs to be more fully
focused on combat ability.
Sorry I meant spells known per day, they can give them less spells per day.
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I like the Channel Ability with the bonus feats. There are tons of channel energy feats that I've always found tough to fit in with only 10 feats when one plays a Cleric or Paladin.
So on surface I found this class lacking till I built a character and that's when I found I could do nice channeling abilities that the Cleric could. ****
Which is sad, because it sounds like Channel is heading out the door for this class and being replaced by a new mechanic to make him better at healing himself in combat.
@AnCapBrony +2
The slayer also seems to becoming a really cool class, as does the Bloodrager, Investigator, and Swashbuckler. Even the Hunter is looking good.
Which is sad, because it sounds like Channel is heading out the door for this class and being replaced by a new mechanic to make him better at healing himself in combat.I like the Channel Ability with the bonus feats. There are tons of channel energy feats that I've always found tough to fit in with only 10 feats when one plays a Cleric or Paladin.
So on surface I found this class lacking till I built a character and that's when I found I could do nice channeling abilities that the Cleric could. ****
I like that Channel is heading out the door. One of the problem in playing a cleric is that everyone expects you to heal the, in battle and after battle, whenever and wherever.
I really like what is going on with the Warpriest.
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All I know is, I hope they make sure warpriests are still capable of being adept at the usage of negative energy, even if it is not through the channel ability, once things are all said and done. I'm noticing that many people keep tunnel visioning on their healing aspect, but what about individuals not interested in healing? Perhaps they would like a martially inclined class that can, for whatever reason, also inflict debuffs and negative energy damage rather than buffs and positive energy healing.
Being able to discharge inflict spells through their weapon as a magus does (or simply being able to substitute one of their weapon swings for a touch attack with a spell, still requiring them to succeed on a concentration check) with their own touch spells would be a good way to approach it, but I'd suggest limiting it to ONLY their inflict spells and possibly harm. The healer oriented version of this would be that they can use heals as a swift action not only on themselves, but on anyone within touch range as well.