Bloodrage counts as Rage for prereqs, I'd definitely rule it qualifies for extra rage powers.The Barbarian, via Rage Powers, has a number of inherent defensive options the Bloodrager doesn't have (without spending feats, I guess - there is one to get a rage power, right?).Nope. Extra Rage Power requires "Rage power class feature", which the Bloodrager doesn't have. Short of taking Barbarian levels (which they can't do under the current multiclassing rules) there's no way for Bloodragers to get access to the (actually quite many) sweet options in rage powers at all.
But rage is not the prereq for extra rage power. And allowing the bloodrager to take rage powers like the beast totem line, supestisious and come and get me Sound like bad judgement also i think. But it is your game:)
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would like to see the Rage ability lose some STR scaling and instead add benefits while casting or benefits to encourage casting. Being able to cast as a swift action under certain circumstances (e.g., once per round when scoring a critical hit while raging) jumps out as a nice replacement for the boring STR bonus type boosts to Rage. Could also allow the Bloodrager to spend at least a standard action to add certain metamagic feats for free without increasing cast time (Intensify, Heighten, Silent, Still) or at a reduced cost (Maximize, Empowered), but requiring the Bloodrager to have the appropriate feat. The Bloodrager should feel distinct in how it uses its rage ability. Adding some incentive or bonus to a limited spell list would be a nice move toward being a caster rather than a barbarian who can also cast.
The awkwardness was referring to having a diminished CL outside of raging, which would limit them to buffing themselves until the fight has already started, which is when they should be slashing and blasting. I am in favor of the Full CL.
again (not specifically to you, but i mentioned it earlier), as far as i've seen the full CL is all the time, not just while raging. if you're aiming this at someone's suggestion to increase the CL while raging, then carry on--i'll join you. full CL is fine, the only thing the bloodrager needs to worry about is finding a reason to use that for things other than buffing, particularly in combat (because currently there isnt much incentive to not be a "buff up and wade in" character).
|
Well let me ask this: Is the Bloodrager a barbarian that can cast spells or a sorcerer that can rage? If it is the former than you really should use CON to cast spells, the barbarian hasnt abandoned his barbaric ways. He just has another trick up his sleeve. If, instead, this is a sorcerer that can rage then I guess I could understand him using CHA to cast spells with.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well let me ask this: Is the Bloodrager a barbarian that can cast spells or a sorcerer that can rage? If it is the former than you really should use CON to cast spells, the barbarian hasnt abandoned his barbaric ways. He just has another trick up his sleeve. If, instead, this is a sorcerer that can rage then I guess I could understand him using CHA to cast spells with.
My answer would be:
Neither -- he's a really angry guy that will mess you up with magic and steel.
I see the niche as distinctive enough that it shouldn't be "barbarian with Magic!" or "Sorcerer that rages!"
|
The awkwardness was referring to having a diminished CL outside of raging, which would limit them to buffing themselves until the fight has already started, which is when they should be slashing and blasting. I am in favor of the Full CL.again (not specifically to you, but i mentioned it earlier), as far as i've seen the full CL is all the time, not just while raging. if you're aiming this at someone's suggestion to increase the CL while raging, then carry on--i'll join you. full CL is fine, the only thing the bloodrager needs to worry about is finding a reason to use that for things other than buffing, particularly in combat (because currently there isnt much incentive to not be a "buff up and wade in" character).
This was exactly my point :3
|
|
I would like to see the Rage ability lose some STR scaling and instead add benefits while casting or benefits to encourage casting. Being able to cast as a swift action under certain circumstances (e.g., once per round when scoring a critical hit while raging) jumps out as a nice replacement for the boring STR bonus type boosts to Rage. Could also allow the Bloodrager to spend at least a standard action to add certain metamagic feats for free without increasing cast time (Intensify, Heighten, Silent, Still) or at a reduced cost (Maximize, Empowered), but requiring the Bloodrager to have the appropriate feat. The Bloodrager should feel distinct in how it uses its rage ability. Adding some incentive or bonus to a limited spell list would be a nice move toward being a caster rather than a barbarian who can also cast.
... You wound me good sir.
And the problem with modifying BloodRage is if stuff is changed too much it stops being BloodRage.
So, just curious, if Paizo does change what ability score Bloodragers use for casting are PFS players allow to rebuild their playtest characters? My bloodrager just hit level 2, but now I'm afraid to play him any further until I know for sure what ability scores he should have. (In PFS, you can rebuild a character freely until he is played higher than level 1.)
Yea, I know it isn't guaranteed that Paizo will make that sort of change, but I'm a paranoid person ;)
Hey Sidekick, can you post some of the specifics of your builds.the abyssal bloodrager is no joke, im trying my hardest to multiclass it and break the snot out of it, and im succeeding. i have about 6 vanilla builds and about 8 multi clas builds that are better then almost every other martial class i can think of past levels 13. before 13 they are in the top 6 most powerful (not necessarily just DPR mind you).
in a simple level 20 vanilla build i got my STR to 65 with out any rule breaking shenanigans, no ac to speak of but a 20 foot reach and hit for over 2d8+69 then i just stopped trying... i mean if i really poured through to books for magic items i could easily get it to 2d8+ (+/-)90 on a single hit.
your lowest swing will be in the low 40's so if you full attacked, you would hit +60/+55/+50/+45 you will intimidate everything on a roll of 1 with the feat Intimidating Prowess, which you get for free, and then stack cruel weapon enchant on top. you just lowered your targets saves by 4 every time you swing.
now keep in mind this isnt the best build, its just an example of what i came up with off the top of my head using eldritch heritage feats, and the bloodline powers, i didnt even factor in things like moment of greatness or any other team cast spells to make you better.
not him, but my abyssal BR 12/DD 8 (assuming bloodrager's bloodlines arent sorcerer bloodlines) build earlier in thread has an absolutely FREAKISH to-hit and damage per swing with a 2-handed weapon.
What reason does the Bloodrager have for having full CL 100% of the time that the range and paladin do not also have?
1. If you're worried about it hurting his utility/buff spells, it doesnt hurt them any more than it hurts the previously mentioned classes. He would be just as effective at buffing himself as a paladin is.
2. If you're worried about him not being able to use his blasty spells, like burning hands, which are only usable in combat... he should be raging when he's in combat anyway.
Giving him normal 4th level casting out of rage and full-level casting in rage will:
A: Not make his spell casting different and [/i]strictly better[/i] than the paladin and ranger.
B: Not hurt their damage with blasty spells in combat any more than their melee damage is hurt when out of rage.
C: Tie their spellcasting more thematically with the barbarian rage aspect.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
1. paladins and rangers gain more synergy from there casting stat.
2. the paladin and ranger are not caster hybirds. they are classes with spells as a supplement to their other abilities. the bloodrager has casting as a major portion of what he is. magic is a full half of the class, and while part of that magic is represented in bloodline abilities those are mostly rage, which is to say mundane, supplements to his rage. his spellcasting abilities are still more primary to his role and theme than the spell casting abilities are to the ranger and the paladin. this is why the ranger and paladin have more options for class abilities than the bloodrager, because his spells are supposed to be a major part of what a bloodrager is.
on cellphone, so apologies for a lack of formating.
ability suggestion.
rampaging spell. replaces uncanny dodge, imp uncanny dodge, and the damage reduction.
when casting a spell that does damage adds class level to the spell damage, double when raging. at the damage reduction levels it also increases the spell dc by 1 when raging. the dc increase increases each time the bloodrager would have gotten another point of dr.
I can't imagine it being very worthwhile to actually cast damaging spells with a Bloodrager, other than perhaps Magic Missile if something just has to be pushed over the edge right now and you can't get to it. Even then, I might be willing to trust a longbow or javelin to do the job.
|
I love what Umbranus said about cantrips at levels1/2/3.
I think Paizo said they planned to make feats that allowed the old classes to do stuff the new classes could do. If so, we may hav the chance for the BR also to use stuff like spell strike, I would love for my divine casters to be able to spell strike inflict spells.
So, a lot of people have been asking whether or not the Draconic Bloodline for Bloodragers should work with Dragon Disciple. After thinking about the implications of this, I say It should, because otherwise it will cause some interesting problems.
Option 1: The Bloodrager's Draconic Bloodline is advanced by Dragon Disciple
- This means only Draconic Bloodragers could become Dragon Disciples
- Dragon Disciple would be a very good prestige class for Draconic Bloodragers due to its perminant bonuses and that it advances both the class's bloodline and spells (to a lesser degree).
Option 2: The Bloodrager's Draconic Bloodline is NOT advanced by Dragon Disciple (weirdness)
- This means any Bloodrager can become a Dragon Disciple.
- Dragon Disciple would advance a Bloodrager's spellcasting, but not his bloodline
- Dragon Disciple would be a very useful class for Bloodragers who aren't interested in some of their higher level Bloodline powers.
- Draconic Bloodragers would actually be the worst of the Bloodrager types to become Dragon Disciples because a number of abilities would not stack. (For this reason alone I hope the developers go with Option 1)
Option 3: it stacks with NEITHER, since Bloodrager bloodlines aren't sorceror bloodlines. They can still qualify as a spotaneous caster of course, but they'd be treated much as a bard/DD would.
If it makes you feel any better, I don't think it is going to happen.
14 charisma to cast the class' highest level spells is hardly the game breaking tax people are making it out to be. The save DCs are going to be terrible no matter what you do so it isn't like you need to pump the stat.
"Oh no! My Barbarian has to deal with the same kind of grueling ability score requirements that the Paladin has to deal with! It's SOOOOOO MAD now!"
boo-hoo.
Paladins actually benefit from their Charisma scores aside from their spellcasting though: Smiting, saves, lay on hands... You can take the spells off a Paladin (like with Warrior of the Holy Light) and it's still worth the effort to invest in CHA. Bloodragers use their CHA scores for literally nothing aside from spells and skills (their powers are based on CON), so if you're not making good use of your spells then you might as well dump it entirely.
Paladins actually benefit from their Charisma scores aside from their spellcasting though: Smiting, saves, lay on hands... You can take the spells off a Paladin (like with Warrior of the Holy Light) and it's still worth the effort to invest in CHA. Bloodragers use their CHA scores for literally nothing aside from spells and skills (their powers are based on CON), so if you're not making good use of your spells then you might as well dump it entirely.If it makes you feel any better, I don't think it is going to happen.
14 charisma to cast the class' highest level spells is hardly the game breaking tax people are making it out to be. The save DCs are going to be terrible no matter what you do so it isn't like you need to pump the stat.
"Oh no! My Barbarian has to deal with the same kind of grueling ability score requirements that the Paladin has to deal with! It's SOOOOOO MAD now!"
boo-hoo.
Then sub out Paladin for Ranger in that sentence.
The class is far more likely to end up with more Charisma dependence than it is to become a Con caster.
It isn't even like you need a big amount. 12 Charisma will last until level 10 when you'll have more than enough for a +2 headband.
Griping about reliance on Charisma is the least of the class problems.
What the class does need is a spell list worth using. A Bloodrager with a big two handed weapon has zero incentive to use Shocking Grasp or half the other blasty spells in the Magus list. A list of full out of combat utility would likely do the class more good than the trainwreck that is the Magus list without a way to leverage it while fighting.
Or some form of Action Economy booster which would allow them to cast while fighting, but I think this one isn't going to happen. With or without Rage Powers, Barbarians are pretty brutal in the damage department and frankly don't need to be piling on intensified Shocking Grasps.
I'm just saying that out of all...
I'm beginning to think more and more that theres going to be tons of swift action spells in the new book.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
For all those who didn't watch the Know Direction podcast with Jason Bulmahn as they talk about the Advanced Class Guide, the Bloodrager will be getting it's own personal spell list.
not him, but my abyssal BR 12/DD 8 (assuming bloodrager's bloodlines arent sorcerer bloodlines) build earlier in thread has an absolutely FREAKISH to-hit and damage per swing with a 2-handed weapon.Hey Sidekick, can you post some of the specifics of your builds.the abyssal bloodrager is no joke, im trying my hardest to multiclass it and break the snot out of it, and im succeeding. i have about 6 vanilla builds and about 8 multi clas builds that are better then almost every other martial class i can think of past levels 13. before 13 they are in the top 6 most powerful (not necessarily just DPR mind you).
in a simple level 20 vanilla build i got my STR to 65 with out any rule breaking shenanigans, no ac to speak of but a 20 foot reach and hit for over 2d8+69 then i just stopped trying... i mean if i really poured through to books for magic items i could easily get it to 2d8+ (+/-)90 on a single hit.
your lowest swing will be in the low 40's so if you full attacked, you would hit +60/+55/+50/+45 you will intimidate everything on a roll of 1 with the feat Intimidating Prowess, which you get for free, and then stack cruel weapon enchant on top. you just lowered your targets saves by 4 every time you swing.
now keep in mind this isnt the best build, its just an example of what i came up with off the top of my head using eldritch heritage feats, and the bloodline powers, i didnt even factor in things like moment of greatness or any other team cast spells to make you better.
But your super strength guy is 13 points behind his vanille build. I would like to see this build:) it would show holes in the class i cannot see without it.
But your super strength guy is 13 points behind his vanille build. I would like to see this build:) it would show holes in the class i cannot see without it.not him, but my abyssal BR 12/DD 8 (assuming bloodrager's bloodlines arent sorcerer bloodlines) build earlier in thread has an absolutely FREAKISH to-hit and damage per swing with a 2-handed weapon.Hey Sidekick, can you post some of the specifics of your builds.the abyssal bloodrager is no joke, im trying my hardest to multiclass it and break the snot out of it, and im succeeding. i have about 6 vanilla builds and about 8 multi clas builds that are better then almost every other martial class i can think of past levels 13. before 13 they are in the top 6 most powerful (not necessarily just DPR mind you).
in a simple level 20 vanilla build i got my STR to 65 with out any rule breaking shenanigans, no ac to speak of but a 20 foot reach and hit for over 2d8+69 then i just stopped trying... i mean if i really poured through to books for magic items i could easily get it to 2d8+ (+/-)90 on a single hit.
your lowest swing will be in the low 40's so if you full attacked, you would hit +60/+55/+50/+45 you will intimidate everything on a roll of 1 with the feat Intimidating Prowess, which you get for free, and then stack cruel weapon enchant on top. you just lowered your targets saves by 4 every time you swing.
now keep in mind this isnt the best build, its just an example of what i came up with off the top of my head using eldritch heritage feats, and the bloodline powers, i didnt even factor in things like moment of greatness or any other team cast spells to make you better.
dont get me wrong, I'm quite curious as well--it almost seems too good to be true, but i'll reserve my judgements till i see it, since hey, there could be something i'm missing that might be totes useful to know in the future.
Then sub out Paladin for Ranger in that sentence.
There are good reasons why there are so many Ranger archetypes that trade spells (and why so many people use them). As-is Bloodrager will probably suffer the same fate.
It isn't even like you need a big amount. 12 Charisma will last until level 10 when you'll have more than enough for a +2 headband.
7 to 12 Charisma is 6 points. If you play a -CHA race then 5 to 12 is 9 points. The lower point buy you use, the more this hurts.
Aside: Why is 15 point buy considered the standard anyway? 4d6 drop the lowest averages 20 points. 2d6+6 averages 25, and 3d6 straight averages 15.
Griping about reliance on Charisma is the least of the class problems.
I totally agree: Con-based casting wouldn't even come close to fixing the class, but it'd certainly help.
|
For all those who didn't watch the Know Direction podcast with Jason Bulmahn as they talk about the Advanced Class Guide, the Bloodrager will be getting it's own personal spell list.
I think that's absolutely required.
So many of the Paladin and Ranger list are swift actions, the same needs to be the case with the Bloodrager.
And if they get access to some spells that are stronger than the spells of similar level on the Sorc/Wiz/Magus lists, it's less limiting to be capped at level 4 spells.
It will create some wonky item pricing exploits (a la Lesser Restoration), but we've been there before, and there's already a ruling in place for PFS games, regarding crafter class heirarchy.
does give samsarans some neat tricks to grab early, but thats a corner case.
Option 3: it stacks with NEITHER, since Bloodrager bloodlines aren't sorceror bloodlines. They can still qualify as a spotaneous caster of course, but they'd be treated much as a bard/DD would.So, a lot of people have been asking whether or not the Draconic Bloodline for Bloodragers should work with Dragon Disciple. After thinking about the implications of this, I say It should, because otherwise it will cause some interesting problems.
Option 1: The Bloodrager's Draconic Bloodline is advanced by Dragon Disciple
- This means only Draconic Bloodragers could become Dragon Disciples
- Dragon Disciple would be a very good prestige class for Draconic Bloodragers due to its perminant bonuses and that it advances both the class's bloodline and spells (to a lesser degree).
Option 2: The Bloodrager's Draconic Bloodline is NOT advanced by Dragon Disciple (weirdness)
- This means any Bloodrager can become a Dragon Disciple.
- Dragon Disciple would advance a Bloodrager's spellcasting, but not his bloodline
- Dragon Disciple would be a very useful class for Bloodragers who aren't interested in some of their higher level Bloodline powers.
- Draconic Bloodragers would actually be the worst of the Bloodrager types to become Dragon Disciples because a number of abilities would not stack. (For this reason alone I hope the developers go with Option 1)
Ummm, that's what option 2 was. I don't think you read the list ;)
|
Hey Sidekick, can you post some of the specifics of your builds.
Not to be rude, but do you Care to share the built. It sounds almost too good to be true:)
How Many rounds of pre battel buff did you need. And did you remember the stacking rules?as a quick build, it is orc bloodline eldritch heritage (inherent +6) + belt (enhancement +6) + rage (moral+14) + power of giants(size +6 over the normal +2 for enlarge person) + manual of strength (untyped +5)+ levels (+4)+ (a missing +6 i cant think of off the top of my head) + base 20 = 65 strength
all different types of bonuses and this isnt counting Monstrous Physique II which can net pounce.
i posted this on page 18
i gained 4 more points of strength by having half orc converted to orc via this spell Half-Blood Extraction and adding in 1 more level bump and +1 point in my tomb of strength netting me a 63 strength, im still forgetting +2 strength from somewhere, i think it was a profane bonus or something.
Is anyone going to take the Somatic weaponry feat from 3.5 with this class?
I don't see why you'd need to - chances are you'll be wielding a two-handed weapon, thus take a free action to remove one hand from the weapon, cast the spell using your free hand and take another free action to resume wielding the weapon.
Then sub out Paladin for Ranger in that sentence.There are good reasons why there are so many Ranger archetypes that trade spells (and why so many people use them). As-is Bloodrager will probably suffer the same fate.
It isn't even like you need a big amount. 12 Charisma will last until level 10 when you'll have more than enough for a +2 headband.7 to 12 Charisma is 6 points. If you play a -CHA race then 5 to 12 is 9 points. The lower point buy you use, the more this hurts.
Aside: Why is 15 point buy considered the standard anyway? 4d6 drop the lowest averages 20 points. 2d6+6 averages 25, and 3d6 straight averages 15.
Griping about reliance on Charisma is the least of the class problems.I totally agree: Con-based casting wouldn't even come close to fixing the class, but it'd certainly help.
To the aside: I think 15 point buy is the "default" amount because it's the point total of the iconic array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8). Which is a surprisingly nice set-up to use, by the way - it does remove a little bit of leeway from players, but it also reigns in the pure SAD classes. I've come to be fairly fond of it.
Ummm, that's what option 2 was. I don't think you read the list ;)Option 3: it stacks with NEITHER, since Bloodrager bloodlines aren't sorceror bloodlines. They can still qualify as a spotaneous caster of course, but they'd be treated much as a bard/DD would.So, a lot of people have been asking whether or not the Draconic Bloodline for Bloodragers should work with Dragon Disciple. After thinking about the implications of this, I say It should, because otherwise it will cause some interesting problems.
Option 1: The Bloodrager's Draconic Bloodline is advanced by Dragon Disciple
- This means only Draconic Bloodragers could become Dragon Disciples
- Dragon Disciple would be a very good prestige class for Draconic Bloodragers due to its perminant bonuses and that it advances both the class's bloodline and spells (to a lesser degree).
Option 2: The Bloodrager's Draconic Bloodline is NOT advanced by Dragon Disciple (weirdness)
- This means any Bloodrager can become a Dragon Disciple.
- Dragon Disciple would advance a Bloodrager's spellcasting, but not his bloodline
- Dragon Disciple would be a very useful class for Bloodragers who aren't interested in some of their higher level Bloodline powers.
- Draconic Bloodragers would actually be the worst of the Bloodrager types to become Dragon Disciples because a number of abilities would not stack. (For this reason alone I hope the developers go with Option 1)
Oopsie! Mea culpa - I shouldn't post based on my musings instead of what is actually written on the page.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I love the potential for this class. I have a high level dragon disciple who is built mainly for casting, and I've been thinking about making another one that does a lot of what the bloodrager seems built for--using spells for buffing/utility and generally being a beast in melee. I was thinking of four levels of barbarian and one of sorcerer before this class was announced.
So, I just want to add my voice to the chorus asking that the designers please, please consider how bloodrager will interact with the DD prestige class. It's such a cool class thematically, but I think it gets underplayed because it's seen as being less powerful than other options that are out there.
For those unaware, there was a podcast last night by Know Direction with Jason Bulmahn as a guest and they talked about the Advanced Class Guide and the playtest and spoilered some of the upcoming changes to the classes.
There is a thread with mine, and others', notes here: Podcast Notes.
My suggestion was both to make CL -3 out of combat, AND to give bloodragers free quickens through some mechanism. Then, they would buff themselves in combat, while in rage. That's how i think they should work. Alternatively, they can quicken a fireball, so you don't have to complain about how stupid it is to cast while attacking, as you would simply do both.
To the aside: I think 15 point buy is the "default" amount because it's the point total of the iconic array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8). Which is a surprisingly nice set-up to use, by the way - it does remove a little bit of leeway from players, but it also reigns in the pure SAD classes. I've come to be fairly fond of it.Then sub out Paladin for Ranger in that sentence.There are good reasons why there are so many Ranger archetypes that trade spells (and why so many people use them). As-is Bloodrager will probably suffer the same fate.
It isn't even like you need a big amount. 12 Charisma will last until level 10 when you'll have more than enough for a +2 headband.7 to 12 Charisma is 6 points. If you play a -CHA race then 5 to 12 is 9 points. The lower point buy you use, the more this hurts.
Aside: Why is 15 point buy considered the standard anyway? 4d6 drop the lowest averages 20 points. 2d6+6 averages 25, and 3d6 straight averages 15.
Griping about reliance on Charisma is the least of the class problems.I totally agree: Con-based casting wouldn't even come close to fixing the class, but it'd certainly help.
The Standard way to play is 4d6 drop the lowest. Heres a 15 point buy though for a Dwarf Bloodrager.
STR 14
DEX 12
CON 13+2
INT 10
WIS 10+2
CHA 14-2
Not too shabby. If you don't care about dumping you can lower your int and wisdom to bump up your Dex or Str. Hardly MAD, just needs some clever stat placement. Put your 4 and 8 ability points into Charisma if you don't want to rely on a headband.
I wanted to make a suggestion for this class, but...I can't think of anything. This class is brilliant. I would play this anyday. :)
Hey Sidekick, can you post some of the specifics of your builds.Not to be rude, but do you Care to share the built. It sounds almost too good to be true:)
How Many rounds of pre battel buff did you need. And did you remember the stacking rules?as a quick build, it is orc bloodline eldritch heritage (inherent +6) + belt (enhancement +6) + rage (moral+14) + power of giants(size +6 over the normal +2 for enlarge person) + manual of strength (untyped +5)+ levels (+4)+ (a missing +6 i cant think of off the top of my head) + base 20 = 65 strength
all different types of bonuses and this isnt counting Monstrous Physique II which can net pounce.
i posted this on page 18
i gained 4 more points of strength by having half orc converted to orc via this spell Half-Blood Extraction and adding in 1 more level bump and +1 point in my tomb of strength netting me a 63 strength, im still forgetting +2 strength from somewhere, i think it was a profane bonus or something.
Thanks. Some good finds. But the tome gives inherent bonus and different polymorph effects dosent stack either.
But thanks for reposting it.|
|
First of all I'm sorry if i have just overread this.
But has there been any official response to what ever og not:
Fiendish Sorcery works for Abyssal/Infernal bloodlines ?
The Dragon Disciple prestige class advances the Draconic bloodline ?
If Rope of Arcane Heritage works for the bloodrager's bloodlines ?
Hey Sidekick, can you post some of the specifics of your builds.Not to be rude, but do you Care to share the built. It sounds almost too good to be true:)
How Many rounds of pre battel buff did you need. And did you remember the stacking rules?as a quick build, it is orc bloodline eldritch heritage (inherent +6) + belt (enhancement +6) + rage (moral+14) + power of giants(size +6 over the normal +2 for enlarge person) + manual of strength (untyped +5)+ levels (+4)+ (a missing +6 i cant think of off the top of my head) + base 20 = 65 strength
all different types of bonuses and this isnt counting Monstrous Physique II which can net pounce.
i posted this on page 18
i gained 4 more points of strength by having half orc converted to orc via this spell Half-Blood Extraction and adding in 1 more level bump and +1 point in my tomb of strength netting me a 63 strength, im still forgetting +2 strength from somewhere, i think it was a profane bonus or something.
Thanks. Some good finds. But the tome gives inherent bonus and different polymorph effects dosent stack either.
But thanks for reposting it.
was about to say, wishes, tomes, and bloodlines all give inherent bonuses, which dont stack.
until you can remember the +6 you're forgetting, you may wanna discount that as well.
I really hope they don't rip out fast movement as one of the unnecessary barbarian abilities.
eh, it wouldnt be a huge loss.
1. paladins and rangers gain more synergy from there casting stat.
2. the paladin and ranger are not caster hybirds. they are classes with spells as a supplement to their other abilities. the bloodrager has casting as a major portion of what he is. magic is a full half of the class, and while part of that magic is represented in bloodline abilities those are mostly rage, which is to say mundane, supplements to his rage. his spellcasting abilities are still more primary to his role and theme than the spell casting abilities are to the ranger and the paladin. this is why the ranger and paladin have more options for class abilities than the bloodrager, because his spells are supposed to be a major part of what a bloodrager is.
1. Paladins and rangers have more synergy because they have non-spell abilities that tie to them. Rather than breaking the design scheme by having just one 4th level caster with full levels, why don't we just make high CHA more useful to the bloodrager in other ways? The fastest solution is not always the best.
2. I dispute this. I think you are projecting an importance on his Vancian spells that isn't there, and I disagree outright with the thought that he is a "50/50" caster/melee hybrids. Why? Because he's a 4th level caster with full BAB and 4th level casting, as opposed to a 6th level caster with 3/4 BAB.
Neither of those responses is an valid argument for giving him full caster levels with 4th level spellcasting. I can see a very good argument for making CHA more important for this class, and perhaps giving him more abilities related to it, but not full levels 100% of the time.
The fact remains that giving him normal caster levels outside of rage does not serious hurt the class. It would be the difference of 1 hour versus 4 hours on Mage Armor, or 1 minute versus 4 minutes on Bull's Strength, and I don't know about you, but I can only think of a handful of combats I've run that lasted more than 10 rounds.
And you're forgetting that the full caster levels he gets in rage is still better casting than the ranger and paladin, so he will still be more of a "hybrid" then them. This is not a nerf. It is an advantage without the unnecessary power boost.
I really hope they don't rip out fast movement as one of the unnecessary barbarian abilities.
Unfortunately, it will probably get removed. Right now Bloodragers get more abilities than Barbarians at 1st level thanks to the bloodlines.
I really hope they don't rip out fast movement as one of the unnecessary barbarian abilities.Unfortunately, it will probably get removed. Right now Bloodragers get more abilities than Barbarians at 1st level thanks to the bloodlines.
I'll just always pick Expeditious Retreat as a spell and have a grand old time.
"There's that one guy, standing all the way over there."
"Yeah he looks pretty tough, but we'll plenty of warning to take him down if he heads our wa-OH MY GOD!'
As such they need a huge raging save DC boost for things like fireball and lighnting bolt and cheap or free access to the classic blasting metamagics. They should not pay a casting time increase to cast spells because they need that move action to walk up to an enemy.
I was thinking that this could be addressed in an archetype. Doing this as an archetype would create two variants of the class, one leaning towards sorcerer and one towards barbarian.
The sorcerer leaning archetype would make the Bloodrage more Avatar State than barbarian Rage. Probably this would involve changing the STR to a CHA bonus and the Will save bonus to an increase to spell DC.
Other changes could be allowing the bloodrager to spend rage rounds instead of spell slots to cast while raging or to spend rage rounds instead of increasing the level of metamagic'ed. This would give the bloodrager reasonably punch and/or staying power if they want to blast away.
This would be paid for by dropping many of the remaining barbarian-derived abilities.
The class should ideally preserve the ability to viably build both meele attack and spell-damage using bloodragers and an archetype is really the only way to do that.
I was thinking that this could be addressed in an archetype. Doing this as an archetype would create two variants of the class, one leaning towards sorcerer and one towards barbarian.The sorcerer leaning archetype would make the Bloodrage more Avatar State than barbarian Rage. Probably this would involve changing the STR to a CHA bonus and the Will save bonus to an increase to spell DC.
Other changes could be allowing the bloodrager to spend rage rounds instead of spell slots to cast while raging or to spend rage rounds instead of increasing the level of metamagic'ed. This would give the bloodrager reasonably punch and/or staying power if they want to blast away.
This would be paid for by dropping many of the remaining barbarian-derived abilities.
The class should ideally preserve the ability to viably build both meele attack and spell-damage using bloodragers and an archetype is really the only way to do that.
... or you could just grant both options, rationalizing that no one character is going to be optimized for both anyway.