Goblin Squad Member
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Xeen, you might be right: TV (cable in the US) and Phone (haha again AT&T in the US) would not be good egs. There's even a South Park clip floating around lampooning Cable Companies treatment of customers and lack of choice! In fact roaming charges for mobile have been previously a travesty of hyper-costs.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Paying a subscription is not for convenience, it is to pay for the game. All of it.
What you define as a subscription differs from what GW's business model defines as a subscription.
The business offering a deal gets to mean what they intend to mean so long as it is adequately described. If a consumer, or a coterie of consumers decide on a different definition as their meaning it does not alter the business' definition.
You wish to assert your understood meaning is the case even though they are presenting a clearly different definition as the case up front.
Unless you are the business offering the deal, your differing case does not find domain. You can (and have) offered your definition but your definition does not hold in a world where there are subscription plans that require added expense for additional services.
Calling people stupid and lazy who disagree with you is uninformed at best and does not substantiate your argument.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Shane, You are making the assumption that a company that wants to stay in business and pay its employees a decent wage, and allow the people taking the risks and getting paid for it the same as a company that is charging five times what it should to cover the bills. The first is not greed; that's reality. If you have ever run a business (I have) you need to charge enough to make the business work. Doing less is foolish. If you want to play PFO, expect a cash shop.
Sorry that I was unclear, I agree with you completely. I think most of the companies that switched to MTX did so out of the necessity of maintaining their business and not greed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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No. In fact, I often wonder if we should have subscriptions at all, because of the false impression they give to people like you who think a subscription implies unlimited access. It may do more harm than good.As a subscriber I will not have access to the whole game?
Dont you think thats being a bit greedy?
For what it's worth, I wouldn't have the slightest complaint if my "subscription" was just a recurring purchase of Goblin Points which I would use to buy additional training time and goodies.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Calling people stupid and lazy who disagree with you is uninformed at best and does not substantiate your argument.
I was trying to make a point and did a bad job of it. After my one time brush up against Verizon charging me a data fee that I never used and took it out with my auto pay... I now think it is stupid to use auto pay, as they will try to steel from you. I just happen to have caught them on the second charge... I no longer use Verizon or Auto pays.
Ryan is just as much at fault, because he said people who use a subscription automatic payment do it so they dont have to deal with it... Which is saying they are lazy. So he said it without direct accusation.
If GW wants to change the name then fine, they want to use an MTX shop then fine... If they go the way other games have and start adding in "power" items or xp bonuses or etc.......................
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Goblin Squad Member
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For what it's worth, I wouldn't have the slightest complaint if my "subscription" was just a recurring purchase of Goblin Points which I would use to buy additional training time and goodies.No. In fact, I often wonder if we should have subscriptions at all, because of the false impression they give to people like you who think a subscription implies unlimited access. It may do more harm than good.As a subscriber I will not have access to the whole game?
Dont you think thats being a bit greedy?
LOL, Im not sure you would ever disagree with Ryan.
I will say this.... I do not like it one but...
After reading comments on the mmo games page... People expect to not pay for a game, and are fine with paying more for junk in a cash shop... I think its stupidity at its best, but that is people for you.
So do what you think you need to do to get us content, cause I will have a low rep character to kill the f2p crowd. LOL
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Goblin Squad Member
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So do what you think you need to do to get us content, cause I will have a low rep character to kill the f2p crowd. LOL
Other than escalation cycles, there will be NO content in the traditional sense for the foreseeable future. It's a sandbox, there will be things to do in that crafters will be going for resource nodes, and need protection from npc monsters and pc bandits, and there will be some npc factions with minor quests, but the standard themepark idea of questing to level and raiding are not going to be present.
Goblinworks isn't creating content for the players, we as players ARE the content.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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So do what you think you need to do to get us content, cause I will have a low rep character to kill the f2p crowd. LOL
Well with low-rep, your char' will lose access to high skills, citys… You will probably be unable, to effectivly grief people.
Whatever your badass PvP gamer skill. That's the point of the rep mechanism.
And I don't think you'll have a F2P detector.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So do what you think you need to do to get us content, cause I will have a low rep character to kill the f2p crowd. LOL
Other than escalation cycles, there will be NO content in the traditional sense for the foreseeable future. It's a sandbox, there will be things to do in that crafters will be going for resource nodes, and need protection from npc monsters and pc bandits, and there will be some npc factions with minor quests, but the standard themepark idea of questing to level and raiding are not going to be present.
Goblinworks isn't creating content for the players, we as players ARE the content.
That is exactly what I meant. Bring in the horde of players so I may kill them lol.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So do what you think you need to do to get us content, cause I will have a low rep character to kill the f2p crowd. LOLWell with low-rep, your char' will lose access to high skills, citys… You will probably be unable, to effectivly grief people.
Whatever your badass PvP gamer skill. That's the point of the rep mechanism.
And I don't think you'll have a F2P detector.
Who said anything about griefing people??
I am just going to kill them a lot.
You are also missing one point, if we have a F2P model, where you can pay for training if you want... Then I will likely train a character up until OE, then stop training it just to have it lose Rep.
I can lose rep in PFO without griefing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Xeen, you might be right: TV (cable in the US) and Phone (haha again AT&T in the US) would not be good egs. There's even a South Park clip floating around lampooning Cable Companies treatment of customers and lack of choice! In fact roaming charges for mobile have been previously a travesty of hyper-costs.
Love it
That is what I think of the MTX stores.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So do what you think you need to do to get us content, cause I will have a low rep character to kill the f2p crowd. LOLWell with low-rep, your char' will lose access to high skills, citys… You will probably be unable, to effectivly grief people.
Whatever your badass PvP gamer skill. That's the point of the rep mechanism.
And I don't think you'll have a F2P detector.
The (Bold) has been unproven as of yet. It is more than likely that low rep will have little or no effect for many many months, if not years. If properly and purposefully diluted within a large population, low rep characters will have no impact at all on a settlement's DI.
Ryan Dancey has also said that the power curve in PFO will not be as steep as we may have experienced in other games. This I infer to mean that higher tiered skills won't play a significant role for quite some time after launch of OE.
Finally, there is always numbers. A zerg almost always wins the day, and skill levels have very little impact for or against a zerg.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ryan Dancey has also said that the power curve in PFO will not be as steep as we may have experienced in other games.
This, I think, is the main key to PFO's future success. Even players that decide to come check it out 2, 3 or even 5 years down the road will find they can make a significant impact shortly after beginning play. Most games have a silly steep power curve that is very demotivating and makes the one-shot kill a standard "punishment" for not being a subscriber on day one. WoW and Rift both have a four level separation between toons going from peers to demigods, which I loathe. This system will make older characters eternally vulnerable, and newer characters viable.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I highly doubt that low rep will have no effect for months or years. They've been saying frequently that low rep won't have insignificant effects (albeit with coarser terms, like "low rep characters will suck") so why you believe they're just bluffing or something with that I don't understand.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's not that threatening. I'm not hearing any "nice little game you got here - be a shame if something happened to it" jibe.
Maybe just suggesting that they haven't thought out the rep system far enough. (Though how would we know? I'd offer that many assumptions and inferences are "unproven as of yet.")
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Goblin Squad Member
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I was trying to make a point and did a bad job of it. After my one time brush up against Verizon charging me a data fee that I never used and took it out with my auto pay... I now think it is stupid to use auto pay, as they will try to steel from you. I just happen to have caught them on the second charge... I no longer use Verizon or Auto pays.
I dropped Verizon for the same reason, but since they had the best coverage of the lot I simply stopped using a cell. This fact contributed to my dismay when Ryan suggested I might need a smart phone to be competitive.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This fact contributed to my dismay when Ryan suggested I might need a smart phone to be competitive.
I'm right there with you, Being. Besides the fact that I don't own a smart phone, I don't want to be that plugged into my game. I don't want it sending me messages/updates/alerts/etc. When I want to hear from my game, I'll log in.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wouldn't want the MTX store to sell anything that would give a mechanical edge to anyone.
However, I can see myself purchasing a 'Dungeon' quest to play with those I regularly form a party with. Though I do worry that some groups might pressure others to feel they are obligated to purchase a 'Dungeon'.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My concern with buying dungeons is that continued use of such instanced content removes those players from interacting with the rest of the world.
As long as their use is limited, maybe with a cool down, that should not be too much of a concern, but it is really not that much different from a player who logs in, does his thing, never speaks to anyone else, stays in the safety of a settlement to rarely if ever interact with other players. The dungeon visitor is probably interacting more than the recluse.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But the recluse, when logged in, is "in the game" rather than "separate from the game" that everyone else is in.
Possible way for purchased Dungeons to work would be to have them randomly appear on the map somewhere, outside of the settlement.
So the party that travels to the dungeon will still have to go through forest and such, risking PvP and PvE encounters along the way.
Then after they beat the Dungeon, they have to safely return back to the settlement with whatever loot they might be carrying.
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Goblin Squad Member
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They frankly could be a coin faucet. Imho, a group that enters a purchased dungeon and comes out with some amount of coin, resources, maybe some other goodies after 4 or 8 or 12 hours of shared game time put more effort and interaction into getting their coin than the rich guy who bought and traded goblin tackle for a lot more coin, even if the goblin coin is just going from one player to another.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is Paizo's basic subscription plan for Pathfinder.
You DO realize this is just ONE of the subscriptions offered by Paizo?
And YES if I order the MAP subscription, I get ALL the maps.
if I order the Adventure Path Subscription I get all of the adventure paths.
If I order the gamemastry card subscription, I get all of the cards.
etc, etc.
If you are going to so completely and utterly faelcake an example don't use one that shows you have no real grasp on the game and company you are supposed to be basing your game on, pathfinder.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I never said you'd need a phone to play the game. There's no such plan.I think the comment might have been something along the line of needing good communications i.e. a cell phone, for that 3am call to come defend the settlement.
I'd guess it was the conversation about authenticaters via apps apart from other uses an app could add (voluntarily).
Perhaps another term can be found for subscription of the sort that fits into a continuum pricing model?
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is Paizo's basic subscription plan for Pathfinder.You DO realize this is just ONE of the subscriptions offered by Paizo?
He did qualify it as the "basic" subscription plan...
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Goblin Squad Member
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I never said you'd need a phone to play the game. There's no such plan.I think the comment might have been something along the line of needing good communications i.e. a cell phone, for that 3am call to come defend the settlement.
Edit: Just noticed you didn't state that it was, and you were adding information. So that bit down there isn't aimed at you specifically.
Then I don't see the issue? If you want to be a competitive player in a PvP game then you do, generally, need to be contactable at all times. It is fairly common for the upper echelons of large gaming organizations to have each others mobile phone numbers, person emails, or even house phone numbers. If the city is under attack by the Koreans and all the Americans are asleep, the call gets put out and the serious players get their asses to the computer.
He wasn't saying anything at all controversial.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would hope that "best settlement status" can be earned without needing to open the PvP window so wide that this becomes a second job for anyone involved. I think most posters who desire the experience of being a part of a settlement are willing to work hard for that experience, but not to the point of it becoming as stressful and demanding of their time as the job that's paying for the game.
That other PvP games have made it that way in their setting hopefully doesn't mean PFO needs to do so as well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Hobs, with potentially thousands of players (?) and either contracted professional army and/or mercenary hires I'm guess rotation will for successful settlements that need the growth (powered by top-rated crafters/traders et al.) will have the cash to pay for these security services. No doubt other objectives can be sought out atst as the standing army being mobilised ; at least the minimum standard.
Any different balance will lead to choosing different settlement windows eg perhaps leveraging alliances for security?
I think the organization and success are the things that will dictate the options to take.
But it does seem likely having a army/soldier base as part of the settlement is going to be paramount to keeping a settlement secure when it needs to grow. I'd imagine most players will skill-train combat skills and something else as their other in-game "job" so a general population militia can be called to reinforce the "army". I'll probably fall into that much wider category of "citizen militia".
It kind of comes back to Ryan's advice that peeps would do well to be part of large guilds and gain experience of this thing such as in EVE or DF.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The antithesis to "you've got to get up at 3 AM to defend your settlement" would be "You've got to get up at 3 AM to attack our neighboring settlement". Remember that the PvP windows will be part of your settlement as well as your enemies' settlements, and too narrow a PvP window could put a warring NA settlement and EU or Asiatic settlement at an effective stalemate.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm certainly willing to work hard for something meaningful in my games, but remembering that people have lives outside the game, and that this is, after all, only a game, is also a concern for me.
When Ryan states that one his core objectives is, "making a virtual world that is more meaningful than real life," I hope he's simply emphasizing how hard GW will strive to make an engrossing game environment, but it should be a bit scary if players really consider this to be the case. Being on call to the game, 24/7, seems to be straying too far into the realm of viewing the game as more meaningful than real life...at least for me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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When Ryan states that one his core objectives is, "making a virtual world that is more meaningful than real life," I hope he's simply emphasizing how hard GW will strive to make an engrossing game environment, but it should be a bit scary if players really consider this to be the case. Being on call to the game, 24/7, seems to be straying too far into the realm of viewing the game as more meaningful than real life...at least for me.
Oh, I don't know. I'd guess that big, big chunks of real life aren't particularly meaningful. When I was a young pup and still at home, I mostly worked to support my gaming habit - work wasn't meaningful; gaming was. How important a game (or this game) is will vary from individual to individual.
I think Xeen is right - our status in a PFO society will be based on our efforts, contribution, and drive. The people at the higher echelons will be the truly committed ones.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My concern with buying dungeons is that continued use of such instanced content removes those players from interacting with the rest of the world.
Isolating a group of six players for interactive PvE content safe from PvP concerns (unless there is seriously interesting interaction within the group itself) for half an hour to an hour on occasion does not seem sufficiently criminal to eliminate a potential medium for creativity, even artistry for players willing to craft a good adventure.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ryan,
I understand the mechanic. I have no problem with the logic behind it.
To the rest, again, I have nothing against hard work, long hours and dedication to one's game. I'm certainly guilty of spending way too many hours glued to my monitor to complete self-imposed game objectives that have nothing at all to do with my real life. And yes, you might have more fun at any given moment playing the game than you are currently enjoying in your real life. But hopefully, that's not to say the whole of your life is less meaningful than your game time. The counselor side of me worries about any player who truly finds the game more meaningful than their life.
As for the game notifying me of important events, when the game needs to be intruding into my life to demand attention for some in-game issue, that's the point, at least for me, where I need to reevaluate which is more important.
Being,
I don't see where I implied that such a practice was criminal and in need of total elimination. On the flip side, if the dungeon can be played over and over or there are sufficient numbers of them for purchase and repeated use, that group may be removed for far more than half an hour to an hour. I think you know me well enough to know that I value creative endeavors, especially player generated content. My concern is that a sandbox game based on meaningful player interaction might be less successful as its intended genre of game if more and more players log in only to cloister themselves away with a select group of friends. I put it forth as a potential consideration, not a call for curbing your artistry.